TM30... I didn't know this.

[Skipalongcassidy]

I recently spent a couple of days in Bangkok Hospital for a relatively minor problem and lo and behold the hospital filed a TM30... when I tried to renew my 90 day permission to stay online it was denied for this reason... 

Your application for "STAYING LONGER THAN 90 DAYS" has been rejected.

 

Others (Please specify)Contact immigration to update the (TM30) accommodation notification to the current place. The last register of accommodation was at Bangkok Hospital Chiang Mai 88/8-9 Moo 6, Nong Pa Khrang Subdistrict Mueang Chiang Mai District, Chiang Mai Province.

 

Sort of silly that they would be required to file a TM30 for the hospital... downright silly that I have to refile a TM30 to return home from the hospital.

 

[DrJack54]

Discussed in recent threads

https://aseannow.com/topic/1329800-my-90-day-online-report-was-rejected-due-to-the-hotel-in-bkk-that-i-stayed-at-last-week/ 

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1329240-tm30-question/

[0ffshore360]

I have been back and forth staying in Bangkok several times over the last 4 months checking into hotels with passport.

Renewed my 90 day online last week no problem at all.

Have  renewed permission to stay 3 times and TM30 slip has never been updated since 2020.

The only consistency with Thai systems is the inconsistency !

[DrJack54]

3 minutes ago, 0ffshore360 said:

I have been back and forth staying in Bangkok several times over the last 4 months checking into hotels with passport.

Which immigration office 

[MeePeeMai]

1 hour ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

I recently spent a couple of days in Bangkok Hospital for a relatively minor problem and lo and behold the hospital filed a TM30... when I tried to renew my 90 day permission to stay online it was denied for this reason... 

Your application for "STAYING LONGER THAN 90 DAYS" has been rejected.

 

Others (Please specify)Contact immigration to update the (TM30) accommodation notification to the current place. The last register of accommodation was at Bangkok Hospital Chiang Mai 88/8-9 Moo 6, Nong Pa Khrang Subdistrict Mueang Chiang Mai District, Chiang Mai Province.

 

Sort of silly that they would be required to file a TM30 for the hospital... downright silly that I have to refile a TM30 to return home from the hospital.

 

 

This is the typical Thai BS I've been complaining about for years. 

 

Immigration wanted a TM30 from my landlord ... my landlord refused/did not know how to do one.  Immigration said it was MY responsibility (though I could not do one for myself as I was living in a rented home).  Immigration said I would be fined for not having one...  I went back and forth from Loei city to Chang Khan trying to accomplish this feat.

 

But when I read the Thai law on the TM30 (reporting of a foreigners stay) it clearly puts the sole responsibility on the landlord (not the foreigner) and it is the landlord that could be fined for not reporting the foreigners stay.

 

But in typical Thai fashion, the burden is placed on the foreigner or "guest" and the Thai citizens bear no responsibility whatsoever.  

 

Hotels are required to submit TM30's for foreigners staying on their property, yet there is no penalty or enforcement if they don't file one.  But go to do a 90 report or get your annual extension and you "don't have a TM30 on file, then you are the guilty party.

 

Brings back bad memories for me just dealing will this one simple aspect of living there as a retiree.

[Liquorice]

1 hour ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

Your application for "STAYING LONGER THAN 90 DAYS" has been rejected.

 

Others (Please specify)Contact immigration to update the (TM30) accommodation notification to the current place. The last register of accommodation was at Bangkok Hospital Chiang Mai 88/8-9 Moo 6, Nong Pa Khrang Subdistrict Mueang Chiang Mai District, Chiang Mai Province.

 

Sort of silly that they would be required to file a TM30 for the hospital... downright silly that I have to refile a TM30 to return home from the hospital.

Sounds as though the hospital didn't advise of the expiry date of your stay, hence Immigration are confused.

 

According to the TM30 regulations.
2.2 After a householder, owner or possessor of dwelling place or hotel manager already made a notification according to 2.1, then the alien goes to occasionally stay somewhere else and return to stay at the original place within the notified period of stay that has not yet ended, such householder, owner or possessor of dwelling place or hotel manager is not required to make a notification again.

 

 

[Liquorice]

11 minutes ago, MeePeeMai said:

But when I read the Thai law on the TM30 (reporting of a foreigners stay) it clearly puts the sole responsibility on the landlord (not the foreigner) and it is the landlord that could be fined for not reporting the foreigners stay.

 

But in typical Thai fashion, the burden is placed on the foreigner or "guest" and the Thai citizens bear no responsibility whatsoever.  

Incorrect, covered many times on this forum, and I'd surmise you read incorrect information on a commercial website.

 

The law on the person(s) responsible to file a TM30 is contained in the Immigration Act.

 

Section 38 : The housemaster, the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned.

 

Section 4: defines a house-master as;  Housemaster ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever , in accordance with the law on people act.

 

If the issue is that the landlord/owner is refusing to give you copies of the house book and their ID, preventing you from filing, then you should inform Immigration and let them deal with the landlord.

[Celsius]

Simple. I don't do 90-day reports and don't have these issues. 

[expat_4_life]

2 hours ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

Sort of silly that they would be required to file a TM30 for the hospital... downright silly that I have to refile a TM30 to return home from the hospital.

 

 

Perhaps it not as silly as it seems at first glance.  You rented a hospital room.  Most foreigners are tourists.  

On balance it probably good that they can locate a tourist in a hospital. 

Of course that does not detract from the inconvenience it has caused you.

[mfd101]

I haven't filled out a TM30 since we moved to our permanent residence in Surin in March 2017. And that includes trips to & from BKK and to & from other countries ...

 

Strikes me - from others' reports - that the main difficulty arises from using the digital reporting mechanism.

[TigerandDog]

The last TM30 I submitted was in 2016 when I moved to CM. I never use my passport when checking into hotels in Thailand. Always use my pink ID card or driver's license. Will be travelling to Vietnam in August and today when doing my 90 report I asked about TM30 on my return. Was advised I would need to do a new one. So to avoid possible difficulties when doing my next extension will get the missus to submit a new TM30 on our return.

[KannikaP]

In the past couple of years I have stayed in hotels all over Thailand, been to a hospital for a few days, and been to UK & Dubai several times. Always return to my home where my Mrs has registered me via online TM30. Never had any problems doing 90 days online or renewing my extension at Phitsanulok. They even re-printed the TM30 I had in my passport as it was getting a bit tatty. 

[Kinok Farang]

4 hours ago, Celsius said:

Simple. I don't do 90-day reports and don't have these issues. 

Well aren't you the clever one?

[Celsius]

13 minutes ago, Kinok Farang said:

Well aren't you the clever one?

 

And then?

 

It is agaunst the law?

 

The worst that happened is I would pay 2000b fine renewing the extension. Last time tho I did not even pay that as exiting the country and getting another visa left them completely in the dark. That is right. Last year I missed 3 90 day reports and paid 0 fine.

 

However, when I was doing everything properly they would fine me for staying 1 night in a hotel and not reporting back to my residence.

 

Play by the rules and lose. It is cheaper to pay the fine.

 

[renaissanc]

I was in a government hospital for 12 days 2 years ago. They didn't report me, so I've had no problems with 90-day reporting or annual visa renewal. It never occurred to me that a hospital stay could be a problem.

[MeePeeMai]

5 hours ago, Liquorice said:

Section 4: defines a house-master as;  Housemaster ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever , in accordance with the law on people act.

 

If the issue is that the landlord/owner is refusing to give you copies of the house book and their ID, preventing you from filing, then you should inform Immigration and let them deal with the landlord.

 

I realize this but as the "Housemaster" (or tenant in a rental), you simply CANNOT file your TM30 on your own.  It is virtually impossible and Immigration told me so.  I asked Immigration to call my landlord and explain it to him and she scoffed at me and said no, just show him the printout from the website (in Thai) which I had in my hand at the time.

 

The TM30 must be completed by the Landlord which means I could print out the form and have him sign it (if he agreed), but it would not be accepted without a signed (blue ink) copy of his Thai ID Card and a signed (blue ink) copy of his Tabian Ban (which he refused to give me).  I had already paid the rent and deposit for that place and it turned into an ongoing battle/nightmare.

 

I told the IO that I was willing to just pay the fine(s) for not having one and she said NO.  Get the TM30 done or maybe you should just move to another house and try again with the new landlord.  She was not help at all.

 

You make it sound so easy but it can be a nightmare if your landlord is unwilling (out of fear for the RD wanting tax money from him is what my Thai wife told me at the time).

 

 

[MeePeeMai]

6 hours ago, Liquorice said:

Section 38 : The housemaster, the owner or the possessor of the residence

 

P.S.

 

When I brought this up to the IO, she told me that the "Housemaster or possessor" as it's called, is referring only to a family member or relative of the owner who is taking care of or in charge of the home (wife of / mother of the owner etc).  It is NOT a foreigner residing there as a renter/tenant. 

 

Whether this is true or not I don't know but like everything else in Thailand, it is up to the interpretation of the uniformed govt. official you are dealing with at that particular time.

[MangoKorat]

2 hours ago, MeePeeMai said:

I realize this but as the "Housemaster" (or tenant in a rental), you simply CANNOT file your TM30 on your own.

Yes you can, I've done it.

 

Some offices may be being awkward but I seem to remember that things were made easier a while back. There was some sensible comment from some Thai official or other that said something like 'the main thing is that you are registered, not who registers you.'

 

If you have a lease or a Usufruct, you are the 'Housemaster' and its the Housemaster that is required to complete the registration.

 

Take a look at the regulations posted by Liqourice above:

 

9 hours ago, Liquorice said:

Section 38 : The housemaster, the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned.

and

 

9 hours ago, Liquorice said:

Section 4: defines a house-master as;  Housemaster ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever , in accordance with the law on people act.

 

If your office won't accept you telling them that - ask them to read those sections in their Thai language version.

[MeePeeMai]

25 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

Yes you can, I've done it.

 

 

As a renter or tenant of a house, apt or hotel, (one which YOU or your wife do not own), one CANNOT do his own TM30.  Impossible to accomplish.  Signed copy of Tabian Ban and signed copy of ID card (of Tabian Ban / house or apt owner) must be submitted along with a signed (by same person) TM30 form.  This is common knowledge/rule among all Immigration offices.

 

If you are the owner of your own house or condo then yes of course, you can do your own TM30 because you are the owner and you have the Tabian Ban or yellow book or whatever.  If you are the owner then yes, it is your responsibility to complete a TM30 for foreign guests staying at your house/condo.

 

If you did your own TM30 as a House Master or Possessor or TENANT (of a RENTAL you stayed in) then please enlighten me on just how you accomplished this feat.

 

And just how would one do his own TM30 if staying at a hotel in which he is the occupier or possessor or TENANT of?  Impossible.

 

Thanks in advance for the info.

 

25 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

Section 38 : The housemaster, the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned.

 

25 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

Section 4: defines a house-master as;  Housemaster ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever , in accordance with the law on people act.

 

I know exactly what it says and I had a copy of it (in Thai) highlighted in yellow and provided it to the IO.

 

25 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

If your office won't accept you telling them that - ask them to read those sections in their Thai language version.

 

555 Have you ever tried handing an IO a copy of this law in Thai and asked her to read it?  You must be joking! 

 

I pointed it out to her and showed her where it says "TENANT" and she stated that means a family member of the owner who has control or is managing the house/apt for the owner (who is away).  She proclaimed that TENANT does not mean a foreigner with a lease or rental agreement.

 

Like I said above:

3 hours ago, MeePeeMai said:

... like everything else in Thailand, it is up to the interpretation of the uniformed govt. official you are dealing with at that particular time.

 

This is a fact!

[MeePeeMai]

23 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

There was some sensible comment from some Thai official or other that said something like 'the main thing is that you are registered, not who registers you.'

 

 

"Some sensible comment from some Thai official or other" ....

 

simply does not translate into "the rules have officially changed and are now being enforced as such at all Immigration offices".

 

 

[Liquorice]

1 hour ago, MeePeeMai said:

As a renter or tenant of a house, apt or hotel, (one which YOU or your wife do not own), one CANNOT do his own TM30.  Impossible to accomplish.  Signed copy of Tabian Ban and signed copy of ID card (of Tabian Ban / house or apt owner) must be submitted along with a signed (by same person) TM30 form.  This is common knowledge/rule among all Immigration offices.

 

If you are the owner of your own house or condo then yes of course, you can do your own TM30 because you are the owner and you have the Tabian Ban or yellow book or whatever.  If you are the owner then yes, it is your responsibility to complete a TM30 for foreign guests staying at your house/condo.

 

If you did your own TM30 as a House Master or Possessor or TENANT (of a RENTAL you stayed in) then please enlighten me on just how you accomplished this feat.

 

And just how would one do his own TM30 if staying at a hotel in which he is the occupier or possessor or TENANT of?  Impossible.

 

Thanks in advance for the info.

Firstly, in case of a guest house or hotel, it clearly is the responsibility of the 'manager' to file the TM30.

In a hotel, you're a guest, not a tenant, only renting a room, rather than the whole residence.

 

For a private residential address, it can be the owner, landlord, or the tenant as the possessor of the residence.

If the foreigner cannot register and submit the TM30;
1. Then why does the TM30 registration form have the option to register as the 'foreigner' or a 'Thai'?

2. Then why does the drop-down box have the option of registering as the tenant/possessor?

 

I've dealt with two different Immigration offices and had 3 different residences, always registering and filing as the foreigner.

1st residence, a rental - uploaded copy of passport data page, owners Tabien Baan and ID card.

2nd residence, a rental - uploaded copy of passport, copy of yellow house book and pink Thai ID card.

3rd residence, married wife's home - uploaded copy of passport, copy of yellow house book and pink Thai ID card.

 

 

[Liquorice]

1 hour ago, MeePeeMai said:

simply does not translate into "the rules have officially changed and are now being enforced as such at all Immigration offices".

What rule changes?

The new TM30 regs only changed 'when' a TM30 should be filed, not by whom!

First registered and filed 11 years ago as the tenant/possessor.

[MangoKorat]

3 hours ago, MeePeeMai said:

If you did your own TM30 as a House Master or Possessor or TENANT (of a RENTAL you stayed in) then please enlighten me on just how you accomplished this feat.

I did it in person at Korat Immigration - they did at first, want the registered owner of the property to do it present but eventually backed down. The registered owner of my property lives 200km away and I wasn't going to ask her to come all that way just to present her ownership details.

 

I didn't say I was in a rental, I have a usufruct agreement

 

That though, is probably irrelevant now because its quite a few years ago and the website was only in Thai. It also seemed to be aimed at hotels and guest houses at that time. Its clearly not now - as illustrated by Liquorice, there were no drop down boxes when I tried to register.

 

You don't have to take what I'm saying, you've been given the rules and told how to do it - although I accept that as with other immigration matters, some offices will try to make up their own rules - as I say, print the rules off and show them.

 

If it was me and I had all the documents to prove I was the housemaster but they still refused, I'd hand it to my lawyer to deal with but that's me, most wouldn't be prepared to go that far.

 

I am not living in Thailand at the moment and just after Covid when I tried to open the website, it wouldn't.  I've since found out that the reason is that there is a new website.  As I only stay a couple of weeks at a time now, I simply don't bother but I will have to go through the process again when I move to Thailand later this year.

 

3 hours ago, MeePeeMai said:

555 Have you ever tried handing an IO a copy of this law in Thai and asked her to read it?  You must be joking! 

 

Not joking at all. If you cow tow to someone who is clearly going against the rules, you make a rod for your own back.  I do though, have a friend who was facing an immigration matter much more serious than this and the officer was making up a rule that was impossible to comply with - they were completely wrong.  He really had no choice but to use a lawyer to sort it out and faced with the law, the I.O. had to back down.  Incidentally I use the same lawyer as him which is one reason I would be confident of success.

 

As Liqourice has shown you, you should be able to do it online but if you can't, before contacting a lawyer, you could try asking to see the boss/manager/captain or whoever is in charge at your office.

 

Of course, taking legal action against an immigration office is to be avoided if at all possible but if you're stuck, what are you going to do?  Move house and register in a different area just to avoid an I.O. who is making rules up as they go along? I wouldn't be prepared to do that.

 

I've taken legal action in Thailand twice, not on immigration matters but on things that are commonly held by foreigners as 'impossible' - the farang always loses type stuff.  I won my case on both occasions and in fact found the Thai legal system to be very fair and not at all biased. 

 

FYI - Korat Immigration have been taken to court and lost at least twice by a company belonging to an advertiser on here.

 

There seems to be a common thread with these Immigration Officers who make up problems.  I note you say 'her' when talking about the officer you dealt with. My mate's problem was with a female officer - as was my initial TM 30 issue.  I was also warned that I would be denied entry without the correct visa once, again by a female officer.

 

 

[ericthai]

7 hours ago, MeePeeMai said:

 

I realize this but as the "Housemaster" (or tenant in a rental), you simply CANNOT file your TM30 on your own.  It is virtually impossible and Immigration told me so.  I asked Immigration to call my landlord and explain it to him and she scoffed at me and said no, just show him the printout from the website (in Thai) which I had in my hand at the time.

 

The TM30 must be completed by the Landlord which means I could print out the form and have him sign it (if he agreed), but it would not be accepted without a signed (blue ink) copy of his Thai ID Card and a signed (blue ink) copy of his Tabian Ban (which he refused to give me).  I had already paid the rent and deposit for that place and it turned into an ongoing battle/nightmare.

 

I told the IO that I was willing to just pay the fine(s) for not having one and she said NO.  Get the TM30 done or maybe you should just move to another house and try again with the new landlord.  She was not help at all.

 

You make it sound so easy but it can be a nightmare if your landlord is unwilling (out of fear for the RD wanting tax money from him is what my Thai wife told me at the time).

 

 

Stay at a hotel, get the hotel to do a TM30 then go to immigration with that TM30.

[scoutman360]

9 hours ago, Celsius said:

 

And then?

 

It is agaunst the law?

 

The worst that happened is I would pay 2000b fine renewing the extension. Last time tho I did not even pay that as exiting the country and getting another visa left them completely in the dark. That is right. Last year I missed 3 90 day reports and paid 0 fine.

 

However, when I was doing everything properly they would fine me for staying 1 night in a hotel and not reporting back to my residence.

 

Play by the rules and lose. It is cheaper to pay the fine.

 

   

If I hear you right - don't file any 90 day reports. But just before your extension is due, leave the country, re-enter and a 90-day report would not be required. Brilliant. 

[Skeptic7]

23 hours ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

downright silly that I have to refile a TM30 to return home from the hospital.

Downright silly, yes...for a downright silly place. 

[Skipalongcassidy]

23 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Discussed in recent threads

https://aseannow.com/topic/1329800-my-90-day-online-report-was-rejected-due-to-the-hotel-in-bkk-that-i-stayed-at-last-week/ 

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1329240-tm30-question/

Where is a hospital stay specified in your recent threads???  Sorry if I missed it...

[DrJack54]

44 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

Where is a hospital stay specified in your recent threads???  Sorry if I missed it...

Hospital stay has nothing to do with anything.

The issue covered in many threads is doing 90 day report online when someone has stayed anywhere be that hotel, hospital etc.

I suggest if you had made TM47 in person or via mail no TM30 would be required (at most offices) 

[MeePeeMai]

13 hours ago, Liquorice said:

1st residence, a rental - uploaded copy of passport data page, owners Tabien Baan and ID card.

 

My point was that if you rent a house or apt. from a Thai person (not your wife / not a usufruct / not your house or your wife's house etc.), pay the deposit / sign the lease / pay the 1st months rent and go to Immigration to do your address change notification, they will ask you for a TM30.

 

As a "tenant" in a rental (house/apt not belonging to you, your wife or your family member, not a usufruct etc.), one cannot get the TM30 done if the landlord does not comply and give you a signed copy of his/her Thai ID card, signed copy of his/her Tabian Ban, and sign the TM30 form (or do it online).

 

YES,  you can walk into your Immigration Office and hand carry the signed lease agreement, signed TM30 form, signed copy of your landlords ID card and signed copy of your landlord's Tabian Ban (with his/her phone number on it somewhere) but I don't call this doing the TM30 yourself.  I call this just delivering the paperwork from your landlord to your local IO.  

 

If your new landlord refuses to give you a signed copy of his/her ID card and/or a signed copy of his/her Tabian Ban and or refuses to sign the form or do the TM30 online then you cannot accomplish the TM30 without the items mentioned above.  You can go to immigration and cry and complain that your landlord won't do it but they will have no sympathy and will not look the other way and just plug one in for you in the system (nor will they accept a donation to help see it through).

 

This has been my experience in the last 7 years at 2 different Immigration office in two separate cities on numerous occasions and dealing with numerous different Immigration Officers in those offices.

[MeePeeMai]

13 hours ago, Liquorice said:

If the foreigner cannot register and submit the TM30;
1. Then why does the TM30 registration form have the option to register as the 'foreigner' or a 'Thai'?

 

Some "foreigners" own their own condo or apt (or house) and can therefore complete the TM 30 for themselves and their foreign guests (as a foreigner Housemaster/possessor etc.)

 

13 hours ago, Liquorice said:

2. Then why does the drop-down box have the option of registering as the tenant/possessor?

 

The way the Immigration Officer explained this one to me is that this person (tenant or possessor) would be a close family member or friend of the Thai owner who is in charge of, or managing the house/apt for the owner while they are away (or unavailable due to working overseas / on an extended vacation or trip / ill and unable to complete the TM30 on their own merit).  That's what she told me.