9 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

I was a member of the Labour Party for many years and a member of a local management committee. I loathe the Tories, but it was not all their fault. Corbyn sat on the fence about Brexit for years - a foolish error.

Things go round and round, and I hope Reform kicks up a stink about PR—they get 14.5% of the votes and 4 seats, while the Liberal Democrats get 12% and 61 seats.

I said a few weeks back, Reform would do two things, help Labour to a bigger majority and advance the case for proportional representation.

 

They’ve done both.

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

By whom?

As far as I can see Keir Starmer reduced the number of potential seats won and any other Labour leader would have done better.

This was never a Labour victory but a Conservative defeat, and the British voter would have voted for anyone that wasn't Conservative.

 

Yeah looks like being the second lowest turnout since 1885.

 

All Labour had to do was keep their candidates mouths shut.

 

The next 4 years are going to be brutal. 

7 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

By whom?

As far as I can see Keir Starmer reduced the number of potential seats won and any other Labour leader would have done better.

This was never a Labour victory but a Conservative defeat, and the British voter would have voted for anyone that wasn't Conservative.

 

They haven't really done much better (in terms of vote share) than they did last time around with just a mere +1.7% increase and have just 34.3% of the vote (so far anyway).  

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I said a few weeks back, Reform would do two things, help Labour to a bigger majority and advance the case for proportional representation.

 

They’ve done both.

 I don't often agee with you but you were right on both counts on this one.

3 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

Yeah looks like being the second lowest turnout since 1885.

 

All Labour had to do was keep their candidates mouths shut.

 

The next 4 years are going to be brutal. 

All that ‘grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory’.

 

 

The news just keeps getting better:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jul/05/former-tory-prime-minister-liz-truss-loses-her-seat-to-labour

51 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

All of it, as expected.

Your usual baseless claims.

1 hour ago, retarius said:

Brits are whiners. Bet the pages here are filled with Labour hating comments within 2 years.

It doesn't really matter, the civil service runs the country.

 

A government can lay down a basic road map  and then the civil service, unions, investors, industry, pension funds, stock market and the central bank will tell them if it's possible  or not (see Truss). Ideologies don't play a major role, the problems facing the country are the same for Tories or Labour and the logical paths to solving them are the same.

 

The MP's are for the most part not experts in anything except for local politics and so are reliant on the financial experts and academics to guide the cabinet and these experts are basically the same whatever party is in power. Of course party politics and any given geopolitics will water down the advice given.

 

As a signatory to the UN charter there is no easy way to stop illegal immigrants as all Western nations are finding out, so no hope that anything will change there, the more impoverished the 3rd world becomes the greater the number of illegal immigrants there will be. It was the reason for Brexit (as if that could solve anything) and illegal immigration was the reason for the Tories demise, it won't change under Labour.

Edited July 5, 20242 yr by soalbundy

14 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 I don't often agee with you but you were right on both counts on this one.

The question is will Reform join the calls for PR?

 

First past the post is the only system that ensures the Tories/rightwing can gain power in the UK.

Who are the Jedi and who are the Sith in this scenario?

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Your usual baseless claims.

Your usual astounding denials.

 

perhaps a new ruling could be that the party in power has to give a percentage of their votes at the next election to one of the other parties for each election promise not kept by the time the next  election is called

Just now, youreavinalaff said:

Your usual astounding denials.

 

It’s very simple, you claim I have misrepresented your post but when I ask you to explain how so, you fail to do so.

There is nothing to deny because your claim is made without any explanation, evidence or examples.

 

 

 

8 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The question is will Reform join the calls for PR?

 

First past the post is the only system that ensures the Tories/rightwing can gain power in the UK.

 I think they will with 14% and 4 seats to show for it

Fantastic day for our Country

The final removal of the most corrupt evil cabal in British political history bar none

 

Make no mistake many reasons for it (the disaster of Brexit heavily leading the way) but no other member of that ugly tribe did more damage than the utterly vile Boris Johnson whilst in office......Truss duly dispatched as well

 

Watch that Russia report now published within one month

54 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It’s very simple, you claim I have misrepresented your post but when I ask you to explain how so, you fail to do so.

There is nothing to deny because your claim is made without any explanation, evidence or examples.

 

 

 

No need to give examples. It's there in black and white.

 

You know what you did, as others on here do. That's how simple it is.

2 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

No need to give examples. It's there in black and white.

 

You know what you did, as others on here do. That's how simple it is.

Yep, as simple as a baseless accusation.

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

We at least agree on the scale and breadth of the mess the Tories have created and which Labour now need to fix.

 

’Without raising taxes’?

 

Labour have pledged not to raise taxes on working people.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Since their leader appears to be unable to define men and women, I look forward to them defining "working people".

 

Of course taxes are going to rise, on everybody and everything!

1 hour ago, BobBKK said:

Things go round and round, and I hope Reform kicks up a stink about PR—they get 14.5% of the votes and 4 seats, while the Liberal Democrats get 12% and 61 seats.

Nobody would agree more with you than the Liberal Democrats, been on about PR for decades. Only yesterday ED was saying how this time around they campaigned to suit the existing electoral system, Reform should take note.

Very unlikely there will be another referendum on PR, in fact, following the brexit farce I doubt there will ever be another national referendum held in the UK.

1 minute ago, sandyf said:

Nobody would agree more with you than the Liberal Democrats, been on about PR for decades. Only yesterday ED was saying how this time around they campaigned to suit the existing electoral system, Reform should take note.

Very unlikely there will be another referendum on PR, in fact, following the brexit farce I doubt there will ever be another national referendum held in the UK.

 Yes, they have said it for years, but they had their chance and decided to jump into bed with Cameron instead. Never trust a Lib Dem.

8 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

Since their leader appears to be unable to define men and women, I look forward to them defining "working people".

 

Of course taxes are going to rise, on everybody and everything!

 

The gaslighting is utterly astonishing

Which political party has driven taxes to a 70 year high............

 

Over to you xx

1 hour ago, Dionigi said:

perhaps a new ruling could be that the party in power has to give a percentage of their votes at the next election to one of the other parties for each election promise not kept by the time the next  election is called

Voters do that quite well by themselves. It's just that, sometimes, it takes 14 years....

2 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 Yes, they have said it for years, but they had their chance and decided to jump into bed with Cameron instead. Never trust a Lib Dem.

You would have to remind me, when did the Lib Dems get a chance under PR?

Like everyone else they learned not to trust a Tory, and I would think the Fartage.

2 minutes ago, sandyf said:

You would have to remind me, when did the Lib Dems get a chance under PR?

Like everyone else they learned not to trust a Tory, and I would think the Fartage.

 https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/sep/23/david-cameron-nick-clegg-electoral-pact-coalition-government-2015

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I said a few weeks back, Reform would do two things, help Labour to a bigger majority and advance the case for proportional representation.

 

They’ve done both.

 

12 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Nobody would agree more with you than the Liberal Democrats, been on about PR for decades. Only yesterday ED was saying how this time around they campaigned to suit the existing electoral system, Reform should take note.

Very unlikely there will be another referendum on PR, in fact, following the brexit farce I doubt there will ever be another national referendum held in the UK.

 

10 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 Yes, they have said it for years, but they had their chance and decided to jump into bed with Cameron instead. Never trust a Lib Dem.

Didn't we elect our MEPs for years using proportional representation?

 

Hang on a mo. That resulted in Farage and his (then party) winning the election!

 

Silly idea, couldn't have that.

 

Perhaps we should stick with that (virtually only) other shining example of "first past the post electoral democracy", the USA!

16 minutes ago, Chivas said:

 

The gaslighting is utterly astonishing

Which political party has driven taxes to a 70 year high............

 

Over to you xx

 

I find it fascinating (still) how people who supported lockdowns in the UK during covid (70%+ of people) are aghast at the fact that taxes have risen to pay for the incredible, unnecessary and catastrophic spending that was required to pay people £2500 per month to sit at home watching Netflix whilst economic activity was ground to a halt.   It's like there has been some kind of collective amnesia about what happened during that time.   

 

The only reason taxes are not already higher than they are is that Labour were not in charge who wanted harder and longer lockdowns.   

7 hours ago, Tug said:

It’s not my country nor place to make judgmental comments on the state of political affairs in someone else’s country,but I will say whatever the outcome I hope it’s good for England and helps solve her problems blessings to all our brothers and sisters across the pond good luck!👍 

oh its definitely not going to help. Labour are just as useless as the Tory's. neither had a clear set of policies that would drag the UK out of the hole its in. only difference is that Labour will accelerate the net zero madness, allow even more dinghy's, and raid pension pots to top up the tax increases we will now have. we were doomed either way. just as Europe leans right and starts rejecting the woke nonsense, we elect a left wing part riddled with commies. madness.

 

Just waiting now for the leftists to declare that Labour didn't really win and do not have a mandate to govern as they only got 34% of the vote with 60% turnout.   It's going to happen any time now.  

 

[crickets]

31 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/sep/23/david-cameron-nick-clegg-electoral-pact-coalition-government-2015

Are you trying to say the coalition was created under PR?

Your words

"Yes, they have said it for years, but they had their chance and decided to jump into bed with Cameron instead. "

With the word "it" referring to PR then the implication is the "chance"  was a result of PR.