Orban’s Moscow Visit Sparks Discord Within the European Union

[rovinman]

  On 7/6/2024 at 4:51 PM, KhaoNiaw said:

What questions have you asked your own sources? 
How many Ukrainian citizens have you talked to?
Have you talked to Ukrainian citizens in different parts of the country?
Why do you consider yourself more educated on these topic than others? What questions have you asked your own sources? 

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Do you follow Konstantin Samilov, on Youtube's  ""Inside Russia"", you should  !
He's a Senior Economist, who fled Russia, just after the start of the war, along with 1.7 million other professionals, who have now left Russia permanently  !
He tells it like it is, from all of his contacts in Russia, and by reading the actual information that is published by the Government  !

And it doesn't sound good  !

[Chomper Higgot]

Odd that the appeaseniks arguing in favor of surrendering Ukraine to the aggressor Putin are also the people who rant about sovereignty and/or invasion of their own home country.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

  On 7/7/2024 at 12:20 AM, rovinman said:

 

Do you follow Konstantin Samilov, on Youtube's  ""Inside Russia"", you should  !
He's a Senior Economist, who fled Russia, just after the start of the war, along with 1.7 million other professionals, who have now left Russia permanently  !
He tells it like it is, from all of his contacts in Russia, and by reading the actual information that is published by the Government  !

And it doesn't sound good  !

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And it doesn't sound good  !

 

One does not expect persons having fled Russia to be posting good news, does one?

[Jingthing]

  On 7/7/2024 at 1:57 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

And it doesn't sound good  !

 

One does not expect persons having fled Russia to be posting good news, does one?

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One doesn't expect Kremlin talking point repeaters to have an open mind.

[Jingthing]

  On 7/7/2024 at 12:20 AM, rovinman said:

 

Do you follow Konstantin Samilov, on Youtube's  ""Inside Russia"", you should  !
He's a Senior Economist, who fled Russia, just after the start of the war, along with 1.7 million other professionals, who have now left Russia permanently  !
He tells it like it is, from all of his contacts in Russia, and by reading the actual information that is published by the Government  !

And it doesn't sound good  !

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Yes he's great. Deserves a Nobel Peace Prize.

[CharlieKo]

  On 7/7/2024 at 4:01 AM, Jingthing said:

One doesn't expect Kremlin talking point repeaters to have an open mind.

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Well, you certainly don't have an open mind.  

[Jingthing]

  On 7/7/2024 at 5:07 AM, CharlieKo said:

Well, you certainly don't have an open mind.  

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Not to Kremlin propaganda talking points because it's all lies.

[tgw]

  On 7/7/2024 at 6:12 AM, Jingthing said:

Not to Kremlin propaganda talking points because it's all lies.

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don't discount the influence of Ruzzian troll farms just because this is an expat forum about Thailand. They are everywhere.

 

Even NATO has put out information about them :

https://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2014/assets/pdf/2020/5/pdf/2005-deepportal2-troll-factories.pdf

https://www.economist.com/europe/2024/02/12/france-uncovers-a-vast-russian-disinformation-campaign-in-europe

https://www.propublica.org/article/infamous-russian-troll-farm-appears-to-be-source-of-anti-ukraine-propaganda

 

In our own little forum here we have our dedicated pro-Ruzzian trolls, I guess all categories are represented :

- the useful idiot

- the paid trollposter

- the operative

- the bot/AI

[nauseus]

  On 7/6/2024 at 12:12 PM, stevenl said:

Imo all contributions to Hungary should be suspended. They're making a mockery of the rules from the organization that is handing them a lot yearly. Stop those payments.

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Quite right, Ursula.

[nauseus]

  On 7/6/2024 at 4:51 PM, KhaoNiaw said:

What questions have you asked your own sources? 
How many Ukrainian citizens have you talked to?
Have you talked to Ukrainian citizens in different parts of the country?
Why do you consider yourself more educated on these topic than others? What questions have you asked your own sources? 

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Can you aswer any of your own questions?

[nauseus]

  On 7/6/2024 at 4:48 PM, zmisha said:

Do you remember WW2 ? Europe and Russia in ruins, America became the undisputed leader.
The history is going to repeat itself.
The US will leave NATO (Trump promised that) and will watch from the other side of the ocean how Russia and Europe ruin each other "because of Ukraine".
Orban seems to prefer to not participate in it.

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Tiresome bs.

[candide]

  On 7/7/2024 at 6:33 AM, tgw said:

 

don't discount the influence of Ruzzian troll farms just because this is an expat forum about Thailand. They are everywhere.

 

Even NATO has put out information about them :

https://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2014/assets/pdf/2020/5/pdf/2005-deepportal2-troll-factories.pdf

https://www.economist.com/europe/2024/02/12/france-uncovers-a-vast-russian-disinformation-campaign-in-europe

https://www.propublica.org/article/infamous-russian-troll-farm-appears-to-be-source-of-anti-ukraine-propaganda

 

In our own little forum here we have our dedicated pro-Ruzzian trolls, I guess all categories are represented :

- the useful idiot

- the paid trollposter

- the operative

- the bot/AI

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No, no! It's just that they have their "own" opinion! 🤣

[CharlieKo]

  On 7/7/2024 at 6:12 AM, Jingthing said:

Not to Kremlin propaganda talking points because it's all lies.

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Time will tell who's lying. When the west abandons the Ukraine to it's fate! 

[zmisha]

  On 7/6/2024 at 12:54 PM, CharlieKo said:

Amazing how the west is happy for Ukraine to fight Russia while the west watch from the sidelines. 

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Do not forget that Ukraine is a very small country, much smaller than Russia. So... when there are no more urkaininans for the war, who will be the next to fight Russia? Of course America would prefer to watch from the sidelines. The Europe will be the next. Finally, there will be only one country who will be happy with this war.

[Jingthing]

  On 7/7/2024 at 10:24 AM, zmisha said:

Do not forget that Ukraine is a very small country, much smaller than Russia. So... when there are no more urkaininans for the war, who will be the next to fight Russia? Of course America would prefer to watch from the sidelines. The Europe will be the next. Finally, there will be only one country who will be happy with this war.

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Ukraine is not a small country. Russia though is the largest country in the world.

[Jingthing]

  On 7/7/2024 at 7:14 AM, CharlieKo said:

Time will tell who's lying. When the west abandons the Ukraine to it's fate! 

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You can't wait for that, huh?

[zmisha]

  On 7/7/2024 at 10:40 AM, Jingthing said:

Ukraine is not a small country. Russia though is the largest country in the world.

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Population: 38M(Ukraine) against 144M(Russia).
 

144/38 ~ 4. So Russia is 4 times bigger than Ukraine (population). 4x population means 4x number of soldiers.

And now is the time when there are almost no more Ukrainian soldiers for the war.
So the EU will be the next "Ukraine" and the US will be the saint peacemaker having fun from the other side of the ocean and saying: "Stop killing each other! Hey men! What are you doing!"
Some US politicians (e.g. Trump) already have promised exactly this - to leave NATO in order to not participate in the war directly.

[Cardano]

  On 7/7/2024 at 10:58 AM, zmisha said:

Population: 38M(Ukraine) against 144M(Russia).
 

144/38 ~ 4. So Russia is 4 times bigger than Ukraine (population). 4x population means 4x number of soldiers.

And now is the time when there are almost no more Ukrainian soldiers for the war.
So the EU will be the next "Ukraine" and the US will be the saint peacemaker having fun from the other side of the ocean and saying: "Stop killing each other! Hey men! What are you doing!"
Some US politicians (e.g. Trump) already have promised exactly this - to leave NATO in order to not participate in the war directly.

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population: 144M(Russia) vs 742M(Europe)..............bye bye Russia

[candide]

  On 7/7/2024 at 10:58 AM, zmisha said:

Population: 38M(Ukraine) against 144M(Russia).
 

144/38 ~ 4. So Russia is 4 times bigger than Ukraine (population). 4x population means 4x number of soldiers.

And now is the time when there are almost no more Ukrainian soldiers for the war.
So the EU will be the next "Ukraine" and the US will be the saint peacemaker having fun from the other side of the ocean and saying: "Stop killing each other! Hey men! What are you doing!"
Some US politicians (e.g. Trump) already have promised exactly this - to leave NATO in order to not participate in the war directly.

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  On 7/7/2024 at 11:31 AM, Cardano said:

population: 144M(Russia) vs 742M(Europe)..............bye bye Russia

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GDP Russia $2Trillion vs $22Trillion (Europe without Russia)..... bye bye Russia 😃

[CharlieKo]

  On 7/7/2024 at 10:40 AM, Jingthing said:

You can't wait for that, huh?

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As an American how do you feel that the US is using Ukraine to fight it's battles. That arms from the west are drip fed to Ukraine, to keep the to war going. But not enough to actually be useful.  That just like Vietnam, and more recently Afghanistan, the US will decamp and leave chaos behind them. To answer your question. It is shame Ukrainians are dyeing for the US proxy war. They really need to negotiate for peace.    

[CharlieKo]

  On 7/7/2024 at 10:24 AM, zmisha said:

who will be the next to fight Russia?

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Who ever the US can convince to fight. I really don't think Russia is interested in going to war with the EU. But that is the propaganda the MSM pump out to justify why Ukraine needs to keep fighting.   

[nauseus]

  On 7/7/2024 at 10:58 AM, zmisha said:

Population: 38M(Ukraine) against 144M(Russia).
 

144/38 ~ 4. So Russia is 4 times bigger than Ukraine (population). 4x population means 4x number of soldiers.

And now is the time when there are almost no more Ukrainian soldiers for the war.
So the EU will be the nebuogxt "Ukraine" and the US will be the saint peacemaker having fun from the other side of the ocean and saying: "Stop killing each other! Hey men! What are you doing!"
Some US politicians (e.g. Trump) already have promised exactly this - to leave NATO in order to not participate in the war directly.

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Ukraine is a big country compared to other European countries and is hard to occupy due to its size and the fighting spirit of its people. If there were no more soldiers, how can the Ukraine be fighting battles on many different fronts?

 

Ukraine has inflicted so many casualties on Russia that Putin is looking as far as North Korea for help. Putin will know that to continue this war will eventually deplete his military so much that there would be little chance of any military success against the rest of Europe, via conventional means. 

 

Trump actually was the first POTUS to allow Javelin missiles to go to UA in 2018, after Obama (and Biden) did not. He gave NATO warnings about budget shortfalls about the same time - he has been consistent with this complaint - I do not think he would abandon NATO.

[zmisha]

  On 7/7/2024 at 11:31 AM, Cardano said:

population: 144M(Russia) vs 742M(Europe)..............bye bye Russia

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So in a war between NATO and Russia there are only 2 choices for Russians - 

1. Use nuclear weapons
2. Die

And how do you think what they will choose?

[stevenl]

  On 7/7/2024 at 12:30 PM, CharlieKo said:

As an American how do you feel that the US is using Ukraine to fight it's battles. That arms from the west are drip fed to Ukraine, to keep the to war going. But not enough to actually be useful.  That just like Vietnam, and more recently Afghanistan, the US will decamp and leave chaos behind them. To answer your question. It is shame Ukrainians are dyeing for the US proxy war. They really need to negotiate for peace.    

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A pity you end your post with this. "To answer your question. It is shame Ukrainians are dyeing for the US proxy war. They really need to negotiate for peace. ".

It's not a US proxy war.

[stoner]

  On 7/7/2024 at 6:33 AM, tgw said:

don't discount the influence of Ruzzian troll farms just because this is an expat forum about Thailand. They are everywhere.

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and i am sure there are only troll farms on 1 side of the equation right ? 

[CharlieKo]

  On 7/7/2024 at 1:35 PM, stevenl said:

A pity you end your post with this. "To answer your question. It is shame Ukrainians are dyeing for the US proxy war. They really need to negotiate for peace. ".

It's not a US proxy war.

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Rubbish, of course it is. Even holding out the idea that Ukraine will be part of Nato eventually is all designed to keep Ukraine fighting. 

[bunnydrops]

  On 7/7/2024 at 12:30 PM, CharlieKo said:

As an American how do you feel that the US is using Ukraine to fight it's battles. That arms from the west are drip fed to Ukraine, to keep the to war going. But not enough to actually be useful.  That just like Vietnam, and more recently Afghanistan, the US will decamp and leave chaos behind them. To answer your question. It is shame Ukrainians are dyeing for the US proxy war. They really need to negotiate for peace.    

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Would you really agree with this? Russias terms for negotiation from the horses mouth

 

 

[bunnydrops]

Here is also an article about the peace talks that were held in the weeks after The Russian invasion where Ukraine agreed to most of Russia's demands and why it failed. I hope there isn't a paywall.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/06/15/world/europe/ukraine-russia-ceasefire-deal.html

[tgw]

  On 7/7/2024 at 6:51 AM, candide said:

No, no! It's just that they have their "own" opinion! 🤣

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usually they also did their "own" research

[tgw]

  On 7/7/2024 at 1:30 PM, zmisha said:

So in a war between NATO and Russia there are only 2 choices for Russians - 

1. Use nuclear weapons
2. Die

And how do you think what they will choose?

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this is yet another common boneheaded Kremlin propaganda talking point.

 

the most probable outcome is #3 - Russia continues its existence within its internationally recognized 2010 borders, because no one is interested in invading Russian territory. Except maybe China, their unlimited friendship partner.