What it the most cost effective and simplest way to change Retirement Visa to Marraige visa

[sandyf]

On 7/14/2024 at 6:07 AM, Moonlover said:

That's your business, not theirs. The (not) new tax law has no bearing on this.

Exactly. Until immigration say otherwise there is no relationship between immigration and personal taxation.

Even people on extensions may not be in the country for 180 days, the paranoia is getting out of  hand.

[Thingamabob]

Just to.point out that you are referring to reasons for extension change, not visa change. Also, changes to the tax laws have not yet been applied and are only at the proposal stage. My advice is wait and see. They may never happen.

[brianthainess]

The only reason immigration do not like changing it to a marriage extension is because its more work for Them, they try and talk me into changing to retirement every year, even pulled my wife over and tried to get her to change my mind ( I have enough money in the bank). It is  a lot of paperwork but it's one day a year, (plus I do not use BKB)

Edited July 15 by brianthainess

[brianthainess]

On 7/13/2024 at 6:29 AM, thesetat2013 said:

Also, i have been told that some immigration offices do not want to allow such changes although I do not know this for certain.

They never want the work involved however they can not deny the change, they must allow it. Lazy barstewards  plus their head office checks their work.

[KhunLA]

cost effective & easy ... write marriage instead of retirement on TM7

 

[brianthainess]

On 7/14/2024 at 6:07 AM, Moonlover said:

For a marriage extension you either show the 400k in the bank or 40k per month income. If you have the former then there is no need to explain to them what you're living on. That's your business, not theirs. The (not) new tax law has no bearing on this.

I always use money in the bank, one time the male officer 'interrogating' my wife, sent her over to ask how much my monthly pension is, I told her you can tell him to mind his own business !. I have no idea what she told him but I've never been asked again. 

[brianthainess]

7 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

cost effective & easy ... write marriage instead of retirement on TM7

 

PERFECT well said 

[Wrwest]

On 7/13/2024 at 6:29 AM, thesetat2013 said:

Hi, thanks for any replies if given. This has probably been asked before but I would like some updated info. 

I have been on a retirement visa for many years even though i am married with children here. 

Due to the new tax regulations on money sent to Thailand, I would like to make the change to a marriage visa to reduce the amount of money transferred to Thailand via transfers. Since they can not tax monies withdrawn from ATMs this seems a viable solution to avoid paying large amounts of income tax if I am only sending money enough to cover the marriage visa requirements. 

 

Can anyone tell me what is the easiest and cheapest way to change my retirement visa to the marriage visa? 

 

I have read leaving to Laos or Vietnam and cancelling my retirement visa that way then getting a tourist visa and applying for marriage visa with 90 days on it is an option. 

 

Are there any other options that may be easier and cheaper? 

 

Also, i have been told that some immigration offices do not want to allow such changes although I do not know this for certain. So any information would be helpful about this topic. 

Thank you

I retired to Thailand in 2011 from the USA on an O-A Visa for Retirement. Thailand changed the rules to require me to have medical insurance. Paid 11,400 a year for a policy which excluded pre-existing conditions and had a 200K deductible. I viewed as a useless additional "tax' for me to remain in Thailand. In 2013 We (Thai Wife and Stepdaughter) planned a trip to uSA. I figured I would let the O-A expire, re-enter and apply for O Marriage Visa. An agency here in Chiang Mai changed the O-A Retirement Visa to an O Marriage in Chiang Mai before we even left the country (bought a re-entry Permit and returned from USA without any issues. It has been over a year, sorry don't remember the cost ... over 10K, if I recall correctly.

[Wrwest]

On 7/13/2024 at 6:36 AM, Tod Daniels said:

doubt you're actually on ANY visa at all and instead if you looked at your stamp you'd see it's a year extension of stay stamp that it says "EXTENSION OF STAY PERMITTED UNTIL" and has a date inked on it  

That means you wouldn't change from ANY visa to any other visa.
 

All you'd do is change the reason for your extension from retirement to marriage when you go apply for your next yearly extension.

Remember thought, if you used banked money method last year you need to keep meeting the seasoning requirements for the year extension you're on now (have kept the 800K baht in the bank account for 3 months after the extension was issued and then never let the balance go below 400K the rest of the year)
 

I'd go to your office (with your thai wife in tow) and get the documentation requirements for a year extension based on marriage (DO NOT say you want a marriage "visa" because you don't, you want to just change the reason for your extension from retirement to marriage)

Then get the documents together and go apply for the new yearly extension based on marriage when you have 30 days or less left on this current stamp you're on now

people "change the reason for extensions" all the time and there is nothing that stops you from doing it at all.

I am not challenging just musing. We all know the intricacies and varying interpretations of Thai immigration requirements. I entered Thailand on an O-A Visa for reason of retirement. Requirements changed. All O-A Visa holders (yes, extensions of stay based on the original Visa) needed medical insurance. 2003 changed to O Visa for reason of Marriage to Thai national. If it were only a change of Reason, still based on the original O-A extension of stay I would still need medical insurance. I do not see and exemption of O-A Visa holders changing Reason as being Exempt from medical insurance requirement. Thus, most exit the country, re-enter and apply for O Reason of Marriage. How mine was changed in country? TIT. But I do not have medical insurance requirement, Reason is Marriage ... so, I'm thinking (and agency confirmed) I have O Visa Extension for Marriage. Just relating my experience ... not declaring it allies to all ... TIT or miracles do happen?

[DrJack54]

22 minutes ago, Wrwest said:

I have O Visa Extension for Marriage

You do not have a non O .

You have record of the non O-A in pp.

You can continue to obtain ongoing extensions based on retirement however will require insurance 

If you changed reason to based on marriage insurance is not required 

Edit: just re read your two posts.

Re using agent to change from non O-A to non O. 

Don't understand how that was done. Would be interesting to see stamp. 

[DrJack54]

28 minutes ago, Wrwest said:

Thus, most exit the country, re-enter and apply for O Reason of Marriage.

They would not need to exit country only change the reason extension is based on from retirement to marriage.

In fact it is the unmarried guys that exit Thailand to kill off the non O-A border bounce enter visa exempt and obtain a non O based on retirement (no insurance) 

 

[billd766]

2 hours ago, mrmicbkktxl said:

A few years ago I was  on retirement extention(less documents and issued right away) with certificate from my embassy,certificate was always enough for them.Then  the rumors came up I might need a health insurance so I changed from retirement extension to marriage extension(they complained).A lot of documents but all was ok, certificate from embassy sufficent.2022 certificate wasn't enough anymore,they also asked for Thai bank account showing monthly transfer from oversea minimum 40000THB per month.2023 I wanted to change back to retirement extension but they didn't let me because certificate from embassy showed 2200Euro something like 85000THB but my monthly money transfers to Thai bank only 42000 THB average.They said I need to transfer 65000THB.I thought ok I can do that but then rumors came about taxation.If I transfer 65000THB I will have to pay 5% more tax,so I stayed on marriage extension and use sometimes  an ATM card if I need more money

By the way when I told them I won't show a certificate (40Euro) in the future because they can see money transfers from Germany they insisted I still need to show every year a certificate.

Up to you.

 

For me however, if I had listened and believed in every rumour that pops up on AN, I would be a nervous wreck and I would probably never want to get out of bed.

 

As I said in an earlier post, if you want to know what your local Immigration really want from you at the time of your extension, go and ask them.

 

If you don't agree with what they tell you, you can ask to speak to the supervisor, If you still don't agree, it is supposedly possible to make an appeal to the Immigration head office.

 

I don't know anybody that has done that.

 

quote "By the way when I told them I won't show a certificate (40Euro) in the future because they can see money transfers from Germany they insisted I still need to show every year a certificate".

 

They always refuse your application for an extension if you don't want to follow their rules. There are a fixed set of rules issued from Head Office, but there is also the provision within those rules for the IO to ask for extra information if he feels the need for it.

 

I can only speak first hand of the Kamphaeng Phet office, some 70km from where I live, and that is the one that I have used for probably the last 10 years, certainly since it was opened.

 

I have had a good relationship with their front office staff, but they have all retired or been replaced, so I have to start from scratch with them again.

 

From years of experience gaining extensions, I have found if you keep them happy, they will keep you happy.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, brianthainess said:

PERFECT well said 

Do you know and understand how much and what paperwork is required when you change from a retirement extension tp a marriage extension.

 

The fact that you need a Kor Ror 2 document thay attests that you are genuinely married.

 

Do you have the originals and the certified translations of your marriage certificate from wherever you were married?

 

It isn't simply a matter of writing marriage instead of retirement on the TM 47.

[thesetat2013]

2 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Do you know and understand how much and what paperwork is required when you change from a retirement extension tp a marriage extension.

 

The fact that you need a Kor Ror 2 document thay attests that you are genuinely married.

 

Do you have the originals and the certified translations of your marriage certificate from wherever you were married?

 

It isn't simply a matter of writing marriage instead of retirement on the TM 47.

yeah... had marriage visa before so have all the documents they would ask for in English and Thai already. Then I changed to retirement visa for the ease to renew.. just now it seems best for me to change it back to marriage. Also, in near future I am considering opening a business and helping cook so marriage also allows me to do this. Retirement does not. 

[brianthainess]

40 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Do you know and understand how much and what paperwork is required when you change from a retirement extension tp a marriage extension.

 

The fact that you need a Kor Ror 2 document thay attests that you are genuinely married.

 

Do you have the originals and the certified translations of your marriage certificate from wherever you were married?

 

It isn't simply a matter of writing marriage instead of retirement on the TM 47.

Of course I do and in the OP there is nothing to suggest, he was married elsewhere, a Kor Ror 2, takes 10-15 mins from ANY Amphur for about 20b. if that. My IO require Every document to be the same day and I have been doing a marriage extension for 9 years.  

[brianthainess]

1 hour ago, DrJack54 said:

You do not have a non O .

You have record of the non O-A in pp.

You can continue to obtain ongoing extensions based on retirement however will require insurance 

If you changed reason to based on marriage insurance is not required 

Edit: just re read your two posts.

Re using agent to change from non O-A to non O. 

Don't understand how that was done. Would be interesting to see stamp. 

Maybe held his hand, that's all they can do, and or help them fill out simple forms, or act as a witness by lying saying they have known the a couple for a period of time.

I had a friend who used an Agent and all they did was sit outside with them until they were called.

[digger70]

On 7/13/2024 at 6:54 AM, Will B Good said:

 

Is that definitely the case?

 

Someone argued that these ATM withdrawals are subject to tax? Maybe they are, but problem is the admin in doing so?

ATM Withdrawals and PaymentsThe answer is yes. Both types of transactions are seen as remittances into Thailand and are taxable. Under the CRS, these transactions are automatically reported to the Revenue Department, making them aware of these financial activities.Feb 22, 2567 BE

[Will B Good]

1 minute ago, digger70 said:

ATM Withdrawals and PaymentsThe answer is yes. Both types of transactions are seen as remittances into Thailand and are taxable. Under the CRS, these transactions are automatically reported to the Revenue Department, making them aware of these financial activities.Feb 22, 2567 BE

Yikes.....that is going to spoil a lot of plans people might have had....cheers.

[thesetat2013]

Just now, digger70 said:

ATM Withdrawals and PaymentsThe answer is yes. Both types of transactions are seen as remittances into Thailand and are taxable. Under the CRS, these transactions are automatically reported to the Revenue Department, making them aware of these financial activities.Feb 22, 2567 BE

But, the new tax laws are not after tourists using ATMs. I am most certain my American bank does not contact my Thailand bank to show them I took money from another banks ATM machine so they need to add it to my yearly money sent to Thailand to be taxed. That would be ludicrous and I think beyond Thailands ability. 

[digger70]

1 minute ago, Will B Good said:

Yikes.....that is going to spoil a lot of plans people might have had....cheers.

Not to worry first we got to wait and see If they can get their cr@p together . 

Maybe next year is the time to figure out how not to pay too much tax we have to pay or if we have to pay any at all.

[Will B Good]

1 minute ago, digger70 said:

Not to worry first we got to wait and see If they can get their cr@p together . 

Maybe next year is the time to figure out how not to pay too much tax we have to pay or if we have to pay any at all.

 

I only bring in about 10k GBP each year......I'm married to a Thai and think I can gift her some of that (well I gift her all of it every year if the truth be known)

 

I'm 68 so I'm hoping my liabilities will be minimal.

[digger70]

4 minutes ago, thesetat2013 said:

But, the new tax laws are not after tourists using ATMs. I am most certain my American bank does not contact my Thailand bank to show them I took money from another banks ATM machine so they need to add it to my yearly money sent to Thailand to be taxed. That would be ludicrous and I think beyond Thailands ability. 

We will wait and see what they are going to do maybe next year they have something figured and then it's time for us to see /figure what we can do to not pay too much tax or none.

[digger70]

2 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

 

I only bring in about 10k GBP each year......I'm married to a Thai and think I can gift her some of that (well I gift her all of it every year if the truth be known)

 

I'm 68 so I'm hoping my liabilities will be minimal.

Yea for sure, we all gift the money we bring in  . But I think that we have to put the money we bring in on the Tax form ,Than we can  Claim the gift to make the Taxable income Lower. 

 

 The concept of gift taxation in Thailand is relatively new, having been implemented alongside the Inheritance Tax Act. The law mandates that any transfer of property or assets, whether money, real estate, or valuable goods, can be subject to gift tax if the value exceeds certain thresholds.Apr 11, 2567 BE

[digger70]

2 minutes ago, digger70 said:

Yea for sure, we all gift the money we bring in  . But I think that we have to put the money we bring in on the Tax form ,Than we can  Claim the gift to make the Taxable income Lower. 

 

 The concept of gift taxation in Thailand is relatively new, having been implemented alongside the Inheritance Tax Act. The law mandates that any transfer of property or assets, whether money, real estate, or valuable goods, can be subject to gift tax if the value exceeds certain thresholds.Apr 11, 2567 BE 

 

What is gift tax? Gift tax is a type of personal income tax, and the tax is imposed on money or assets given to parents, ascendants, descendants, spouse or others as a gift and exceed the threshold. Assets or money given that do not exceed the threshold are exempt from gift tax.

[jaideedave]

1 hour ago, brianthainess said:

Maybe held his hand, that's all they can do, and or help them fill out simple forms, or act as a witness by lying saying they have known the a couple for a period of time.

I had a friend who used an Agent and all they did was sit outside with them until they were called.

My wife and I were told we needed an agent to get our marriage registered in BKK.The agent met us at the office,said Hi and then we joined the queue. He did sweet fa for us except waste our money.Another rip- off to add to the list.

[jaideedave]

22 minutes ago, digger70 said:

We will wait and see what they are going to do maybe next year they have something figured and then it's time for us to see /figure what we can do to not pay too much tax or none.

I'm considering sending half my monthly 80k to the wife's account to reduce my income to under the taxable threshold. I also have the option to change from a retired visa to married. We're not done yet.

There's also the ATM route. I ain't paying no extra taxes here. I already pay the unmentionable "skin tax" plus 1.5 x times the local fees at Queen Sirikit hospital.

[digger70]

11 minutes ago, jaideedave said:

I'm considering sending half my monthly 80k to the wife's account to reduce my income to under the taxable threshold. I also have the option to change from a retired visa to married. We're not done yet.

There's also the ATM route. I ain't paying no extra taxes here. I already pay the unmentionable "skin tax" plus 1.5 x times the local fees at Queen Sirikit hospital.

You are Sending the money to your wife so You are bringing the money into Thailand .

You have to put that on the Tax form then you can claim back what you Gift your wife  

 

Is gift taxable in Thailand?

The concept of gift taxation in Thailand is relatively new, having been implemented alongside the Inheritance Tax Act. The law mandates that any transfer of property or assets, whether money, real estate, or valuable goods, can be subject to gift tax if the value exceeds certain thresholds. 

 

Here's a good one for ya

 

Gift tax rates in Thailand are structured to favor transfers to direct relatives. For gifts to ascendants, descendants, or spouses, the tax-free threshold is 20 million baht per year to a single recipient, with a tax rate of 5% applied to amounts exceeding this threshold.Apr 11, 2567 BE

[connda]

On 7/14/2024 at 2:48 PM, MixPiano said:

I can confirm they really don't like to do it. I spoke to 5 immigration officers in 2 different locations, and they all said it wasn't possible and that I need to leave the country (change extension reason from work to retirement).

Back a few years ago before they changed the financial requirement rules the IOs talked a lot of us guys married to Thai women to change over to Retirement extensions.  After they change the financial rules I changed back and my IO was not a happy camper.  "I do it this time but why you change to Retirement?  I never do this again, blah blah blah." 
I loved that - "Why did you change to Retirement extension?"  Because you asked me to change to a Retirement extension.  Short memory. 

 

Yeah - a bit more paperwork but what the heck.  It's not that big of a deal and I've done it so many times now that it's just the way I do extensions now.  And I'm not tying up any more discretionary funds then I have to.

[khunPer]

On 7/13/2024 at 1:44 AM, thesetat2013 said:

You are correct about being on extensions. Your option poses the question about their willingness to change the reason of extension. As I have been told they really do not like or want to do this. An agent also had said to me they do not want to do it and leaving the country is the only way. Start everything new. My retirement is based on monthly income. Not cash in the bank. So all the money transferred here may be subject to the new tax laws at 35%. Which is something i am trying to reduce by changing my visa status. 

35% percent is the tax rate for income over 5 million bath after deductions.

 

If your retirement pension is already taxed in another country and that state has a double taxation agreement with Thailand, you will most likely already have paid all your income tax.

 

In Thailand you'll have a personal deduction of 60,000 baht and 30,000 baht per each minor child. Only income over 150,000 baht after deductions will be taxed – 190,000 baht for retirees over 60 years (if I remember correct) – starting with 5%, and jumps in 5% steps until it reach the to level of 35% for taxable income over 5 million baht.

 

We still know too little about details, the PM has mentioned foreign income taxed as "interest", which is is 15%.

[thesetat2013]

2 hours ago, digger70 said:

We will wait and see what they are going to do maybe next year they have something figured and then it's time for us to see /figure what we can do to not pay too much tax or none.

If they are trying to use us to pay off their national debt. Which was also in the news. Then I foresee many foreigners closing their bank accounts and leaving the country quickly. Especially retirees on the 65,000 a month or 800,000 a year retirement method. That is a whopping 35% tax just to get a visa and stay.