Expats angry at huge concessions in latest Thai visa announcements

[JensenZ]

4 hours ago, fortz said:

Spelling the word "intention" wrong 3 times shows that this word is too big for you. The word "tension" has one less syllable and may be what you are freudian slipping about....awrightttt??!!?

You're a newbie here... don't start with the "Grammar Nazi" nonsense. This is an international forum.

[MangoKorat]

I don't know what all the fuss is about.  These are very likely to be temporary measures introduced because the nation's economy is having a hard time.  As soon as things improve or they realise that this has made no difference, it will be gone. Nice if it becomes permanent but I doubt it. However, I doubt these measures will make much difference.  The people that are able to spend months effectively 'living in Thailand' are already doing so - this just makes it easier for them. Its 'regular' tourists they are targetting - how many people can suddenly increase their annual holiday to 60 days plus?

 

The problem is that the 'tourist spend' is down. We have seen the reports of record numbers of tourists - the problem is that they are not spending as much as they used to. I thought the 'penny had dropped' with them a few months back and that they'd finally realised that although tourist numbers had increased, people had less money to spend because the airlines were ripping them off - trying to recoup covid losses.  Remember a while ago they said they were going to call the major airlines in and tell them that if they didn't reduce flight prices, they would open new slots at Suvarnabhumi that would introduce more competition?  Never heard another thing about it.

 

They're a bit like some Thai women, they think foreigners, especially westerners have unlimited cash.  The fact is that people, individuals or families set budgets for the total spend on their annual holiday.  If the cost of flights increases, they have less to spend on everything else. There's no money tree at the bottom of the garden but as many of us know, telling a Thai female that is a complete waste of breath.

 

For a while the mega high flight prices meant that people were selecting cheaper destinations closer to home.  Flight prices began to reduce and that was reflected by an increase in tourist numbers but the flights are still much more expensive than they were previously and very little of that is due to increased fuel prices.

 

I hate to be the bearer of sad tidings to the Thai government but there aren't any countries where the 'streets are paved with gold'. The entire world is facing a 'cost of living crisis' - its not something that's only affecting Thailand.  Higher flight prices + increased living costs = lower holiday spend - its pretty basic maths.

 

They may increase the numbers of backpackers/gap year students with these measures but I can't see them saving Thailand's economy.

[Rob Browder]

12 hours ago, Hakuna Matata said:

criminals and fugitives from all over the world

... would have used agents before - or bought an elite visa - with their ill-gotten gains - assuming they are not wanted-men, yet.   Every time they go through immigration or apply for an extension (agent or not), their passport is checked.  If there is a warrant - BUSTED.

[Kohkah]

14 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

 

A Non-Immigrant visa allows you to open bank accounts, obtain a driving licence and other privileges that the 60 day stamps and DTV don't support.

 

Also, you don't qualify for the DTV, because you are a retiree, and that is not a category that it supports.

If only a a Non-Immigrant visa allows you for opening a bank account........
Why do I know people without a Non-Immigrant have bank accounts? For example the owner of a condo or long-term rent contract can open a bank account and even buy a car, or not?

 

[Rob Browder]

15 hours ago, webfact said:

Some immigration officers at Bangkok’s Suvarnabhumi airport have allegedly told new arrivals they can now do as many border runs as they like.

I haven't seen this reported elsewhere.  Has anyone seen a source for this report?
 

14 hours ago, racket said:

(Elite) just 6,770 baht per month

"just" LOL!!  I remember when the sales reps were calculating it by the day, to make the number look small. 

These are not people to listen to for advice on how to plan for a comfortable future.  One wants to CUT those repeating expenses, not blow them off because they are not "much per day" or "month." 

[Rob Browder]

10 hours ago, Baht Simpson said:

How much does that cost in total?

12,500 Baht/year - not including re-entry permits.   About the same as a 1-year ME Visa in Cambodia or Laos - also not requiring money "in the bank" - but no add-on re-entry permit costs with those.

 

10 hours ago, StevieAus said:

... I cannot think of too many Western countries ...

Where wages are multiples higher, so we need different immigration restrictions - though those are trashed, at this point - just be a "refugee" and you are set, including free-money welfare.   No welfare here, so those w/o money MUST leave. 

 

10 hours ago, StevieAus said:

As far as the ever changing rules and hoops you have to jump through don’t recall any changes being applied to me.

Every year I did a marriage-extension, different things were required.  It was standard practice to do a "dry run" well in-advance of expiry, to see what had changed.  When they added the landlord-docs (chanote and house-book of owner), as yet ANOTHER Undocumented Hurdle, just to **** with us, I had to go get a ME-Visa to stay with my wife, because those were not provided to me by the landlord. 

 

Those on retirement had the money-rules changed out from under them, w/o grandfathering, a few years ago - greatly increasing how much they needed in "can't use it money," with the different "money seasoning" requirements and "can't ever go below 400K" rule.  They also asked our consulates not to issue income-affidavits any more, so people relying on those were screwed (married and retired).

[Rob Browder]

6 hours ago, Bobydog said:

Following Covid, 1500 people were surveyed and 60% said they didn't want Tourists,

... because they thought "Western Tourists gave us covid" - because the TV said so - meanwhile, "... will always be friends with the Chinese people" signs were put up. 

 

Thai govt officials tried to blame Westerners for covid, while kissing *** to the govt responsible for the place where it originated, who left the international-airport from ground-zero open to the rest of the world (including Thailand - how it actually got here), while simultaneously isolating that province from the rest of China.

 

It is sad people believe the TV and politician-liars - and this problem is not unique to Thailand.  "Bad Western foreigners" spread covid by swimming alone in the ocean, or sitting on the beach, said the TV, though UV-light destroys pathogens (not a new discovery).  These liars - and those responsible for the existence of covid in the first place - NEVER APOLOGIZED, and were never held accountable for the damage caused by their reckless actions and lies - world-wide.

[Rob Browder]

1 hour ago, MangoKorat said:

The people that are able to spend months effectively 'living in Thailand' are already doing so - this just makes it easier for them. Its 'regular' tourists they are targeting - how many people can suddenly increase their annual holiday to 60 days plus?
...

They may increase the numbers of backpackers/gap year students with these measures but I can't see them saving Thailand's economy.

They are increasing the share of millions of people who work remotely, who will now be able to spend earned foreign-income into the Thai economy, ongoing.  Before this, those folks had to spend 1/2 of their money in other countries every year, because Thailand "cracked down" on them spending money here "too much / often."

 

9 hours ago, Presnock said:

well just the other day they announced 19 million tourists so far this year....however, the money folks say that the amount of money recvd from these tourists is below what was expected.

Yes - zero-baht "tour packages" increase arrival-numbers, but do not put much in per-capita.

[kiwikeith]

18 hours ago, lapamita said:

I never understand People buying Elite cards.

I am over 30 Years here , and since 5 Years only half of the year ,bcs more easy living and better clima in other country.

Everchanging rules , I had Investment Visa based on  3mb  about 20 years ago, and under Taxsim , rules get changed , even it was Grandfatherd . 3mb must than stay in Goverment bank at 0% ( 0%policy of intrest for foreigner at this time) what was bringing an intrest loss per anum of aprox 200,000 thb ( local intrests at 6-7% at this time) , or the cost of visa to 200.000 ,+++

than i get the visa for 20k special from bkk immigration , and when thats not possible later ,i was travel to philippines and send passport to honorary conulate receiving a multi 1 year non b /o ( not illegal because staying outside thailand during visa aplication), and the story goes on , when this not possible more  with boarderruns and various visas.

I am even not want stay in thai more the whole year , but that i come back in June here ..get only 30 day stamp, gone 10 day abroad , 2 days longer because of the 60 days start 15.7  ...and what i received at 13h on 15.07  at the swampi airport only 30 days AMAZING THALAND, i go back overseas on 20.8 wiath 7 day overstay

 

and thats one or the reasons , i left thailand , ever changing rules, senseless anouncment.

 

PS  I dont like India , but 2 times a year i there for 3,4 days to some reason ,  but one thing they issue  a 5 year Tourist Visa valid for up to 180 days per year for 80 USD , i ts easy and 1 stamp in passport for 5 years.   ..so and that make really sense , compare to all the s**** thais making

 

Now it's back like the old days don't screw it up by whinging, or you might make it worse. 

[freedomnow]

They will all be repealed by Bad Guy In, Good Guys Out = (soon to be) PM Teflon Tony Thaksin.

 

Flip and a flop and a flop and flip and a flip and a flop...

 

 

Thai water torture for foreigners.

[Presnock]

11 hours ago, retarius said:

I'm not sure why ex-pats would be angry about a relaxation of the immigration laws and new visas. It offers new opportunities for those of us that wish to leave the place for 186 days a year. I've been here almost 20 years and a fed up with I/O when renewing my visa and the stupid 90 day reports.  

I'm enthusiastic about the change and will not be renewing my Non-O next year. 

yeah, I did the retirement o for 20 years and then got the boi LTR which is perfect for me.  If they continue putting out new visas they might eventually have one that is perfect for every person.

[thaibeachlovers]

19 hours ago, webfact said:

American expat Dan Silverman, who holds a yearly extension based on retirement, said, “It’s just ridiculous. I have to keep 800,000 baht in a Thai bank, obtain medical insurance, face ever-changing regulations and regularly report my Thai address throughout the year, or be fined.” He added, “And for what, when you can come and go as you please with the new visas?”

It'll only last a while till they change their minds about it, IMO.

[Presnock]

11 hours ago, cedel said:

in theory from 2024 onwards, you will be taxed on your worldwide income as a thai fiscal resident and maybe a double tax treaty could be invoked to prevent it but it seems that you will need to file a tax report in Thailand...with all the fees and bother associated

 

not sure all the new dtv users understand the definition of a Thailand Tax Resident YET because many of their posts seem be unaware that over 180 days in thailnd during one calendar year makes them a tax resident and if they remit or have assessable income they are supposed to pay tax unless it is exempt for some reason.

[Luuk Chaai]

19 hours ago, racket said:

The Elite Visas a total waste i

 

If he stays on the elite visa program for 16 years, he’ll end up paying just 6,770 baht per month, which is quite reasonable compared to other long-term residency options..

over 16 years..   it works out to be triple the price of a marriage visa with extensions

[mokwit]

13 hours ago, Maestro said:

 

Where in the official announcement of the DTV does it say that the legal requirement to notify the arrival of foreigners at a hotel or private place is waived for foreigners who  arrived with a DTV?

It doesn't as far as I know. That is not the point I am making. Read my post: 'current enforcement', 'under the radar'. What I am saying is that unless they change the enforcement of TM30 which is currently only enforced with people going into Immigration offices for something, DTV holders will be able to fly under the radar and not file without any consequences.

[mokwit]

13 hours ago, Maestro said:

 

Where in the official announcement of the DTV does it say that the legal requirement to notify the arrival of foreigners at a hotel or private place is waived for foreigners who  arrived with a DTV?

Again it doesn't, I am talking about the actual enforcement of the law. If you stay at a hotel or Landlord that reports, a TM30 will be filed for you. The FACT is that a large number of Landlords are NOT filing and therefore unless a DTV does an in country extension, if he stays in a rental where the Landlord doesn't file he is not registered with Imm. This is my point. Immigration have made such a big thing about TM30 filing but masses of people will be staying here long term without being registered.

 

It is the same for people on Non Imm Multiple entry, they can stay under the radar.

[ryandb]

Firstly why complain, you decided to spend your money that way. You have the Elite Visa and the benefits that come with it, it's like complaining about buying something when it first came out and now it's on sale, nevermind if you purchased it before the price hike, did you offer to make up the difference?

 

Retirement or Marriage guys, well just swap to doing it this way if you really are unhappy about it... 

 

I'll be staying on long term visa's for the simple fact I have dogs here and if the rules suddenly change or if I get a border agent deciding differently I can't take the risk plus going to the border every 3 months isn't much fun, my check ins are done by my agent so I literally go once a year to the IO and that's good for me

 

[2ndhomepattaya]

18 hours ago, Neeranam said:

They are making things easier. 

If married to a Thai citizen, you can become a citizen yourself.

It used to be hard and take many years, often with bribery and had to learn Thai fluently. 

When I did it, it cost me 5,000 baht, didn't need to speak Thai, and only had to be working for 3 years with a salary of 40k baht a month. Easier than many other countries.

 

Not that easy if you are retired

[Olmate]

16 hours ago, Dionigi said:

sorry been here 40 years, I can also tell the difference between your and you're

Too sweet Dion, speel cop that, im sorry you learnt sfa in 40yrs tho, the pros n cons of visa moneys is like so yesterday! aka yawn.

[Cereal]

To all the people upset about this, relax, because everything will change in a couple of months.

[daveAustin]

9 hours ago, GoodieAfterDark said:

 

I would never live in Thailand, not even if someone paid me. The weather is horrible hot and I am not a good friend of the AC.

Why are you in this forum ?

[Chongalulu]

21 hours ago, racket said:

If he stays on the elite visa program for 16 years, he’ll end up paying just 6,770 baht per month, which is quite reasonable compared to other long-term residency options..

This is a terrible investment of almost 1 million baht. You have completely forgotten the investment return on that sum. I just have to look at the return on such a sum invested I have achieved on my U.K. SIPP (pension) and ISA (another tax free wrapper). 

[herfiehandbag]

20 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Good post. 

 

Retired people are moaners and Thai bashers.

 

What's the big deal of going to immigration once a year, you have all the time in the world. 

What's the big deal of going to a neighboring country to do a visa run?

What's the big deal in paying 15,000 baht year to become an illegal immigrant?

What's the big deal of keeping 800k in  a bank for a few months, If a Thai goes to USA, they must INVEST

17 million baht for a retirement visa. 

 

I rather agree. In fact who bloody cares what visa arrangements others choose to make?

 

The Thai government decide how and why they are going to run such things, they don't care two hoots what expats think.

 

They set the rules, and from time to time, at the whim of whoever is making the decisions, change or modify them. If the rules say XYZ, and herfiehandbag meets XYZ, then he gets an entry stamp, be it 30, 60, 90 days or a year.

 

Back when Savannakhet was handing out 1 year multiple entry type Os based on marriage or parenthood then these columns were full of whinges from "Harry Enfield types" ("Oi have considerably more money than yew!")  about soap dodgers bending the rules (not spending as much as the moaner). Different rules now apply, same whinges, and it rather seems, from memory, often the same whingers!

[JimHuaHin]

6 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

I don't know what all the fuss is about.  These are very likely to be temporary measures introduced because the nation's economy is having a hard time.  As soon as things improve or they realise that this has made no difference, it will be gone. Nice if it becomes permanent but I doubt it. However, I doubt these measures will make much difference.  The people that are able to spend months effectively 'living in Thailand' are already doing so - this just makes it easier for them. Its 'regular' tourists they are targetting - how many people can suddenly increase their annual holiday to 60 days plus?

 

The problem is that the 'tourist spend' is down. We have seen the reports of record numbers of tourists - the problem is that they are not spending as much as they used to. I thought the 'penny had dropped' with them a few months back and that they'd finally realised that although tourist numbers had increased, people had less money to spend because the airlines were ripping them off - trying to recoup covid losses.  Remember a while ago they said they were going to call the major airlines in and tell them that if they didn't reduce flight prices, they would open new slots at Suvarnabhumi that would introduce more competition?  Never heard another thing about it.

 

They're a bit like some Thai women, they think foreigners, especially westerners have unlimited cash.  The fact is that people, individuals or families set budgets for the total spend on their annual holiday.  If the cost of flights increases, they have less to spend on everything else. There's no money tree at the bottom of the garden but as many of us know, telling a Thai female that is a complete waste of breath.

 

For a while the mega high flight prices meant that people were selecting cheaper destinations closer to home.  Flight prices began to reduce and that was reflected by an increase in tourist numbers but the flights are still much more expensive than they were previously and very little of that is due to increased fuel prices.

 

I hate to be the bearer of sad tidings to the Thai government but there aren't any countries where the 'streets are paved with gold'. The entire world is facing a 'cost of living crisis' - its not something that's only affecting Thailand.  Higher flight prices + increased living costs = lower holiday spend - its pretty basic maths.

 

They may increase the numbers of backpackers/gap year students with these measures but I can't see them saving Thailand's economy.

I regret to say, that, from my perspective, you are correct on all points.

 

The Thai authorities seem to have a very limited understanding of the economic situation in many foreign countries and a similar comprehension of the economic/financial situation of many expats who are now living (almost) permanently in Thailand.

 

I have expat friends, mostly in Bangkok, who were living and working in Thailand for many decades, almost all of whom are retired now.  A handful had good high salary jobs and now have a comfortable lifestyle.  But the majority are now living in cheap rental accommodation, and do not own a motor cycle.

 

Japan is now in recession; some media reports suggest Australia may follow by early next year.  Why TAT seems to often target countries with severe economic problems is beyond me.  Ignorance maybe bliss, but it is also dangerous.

 

Yes, some expats are wealthy and have an easy life here.  But the majority, I would argue are living on a strict limited budget.  Similar to many tourists who visit.

 

 

[Maitdjai]

18 hours ago, BritScot said:

I got my first bank account in Thailand with a 30 day holiday visa and even got a triton pickup on finance doing 30 day visa runs (waiting for a work permit that never arrived). I've never had a problem opening a bank account in Thailand. 

That you never had problems to open bank accounts, with every 30-day border bounces (including the "Triton"), sounds more like a fairytale from the "good old times".

[mokwit]

13 hours ago, RetroGTAndrew said:

I've heard this before, but I've asked at a few different banks (both in SmautPrakan and @ Seacon Square) with no success (while on either a 30 day exempt or on a TR60 visa) and they always say need a work permit or long term visa. Same requirements for a residence certificate from SamutPrakan immigration last year for a driving license.

SCB now requires a TIn (tax ID). People claiming they opened a bank account on a tourist visa/VE probably didn't do it recently. The banks have tightened up due to anti money laundering directives from the BoT, but having opened the account on a tourist visa in the Lanna period they assume that can still be done.

[mokwit]

16 minutes ago, Maitdjai said:

That you never had problems to open bank accounts, with every 30-day border bounces (including the "Triton"), sounds more like a fairytale from the "good old times".

Not sure how he could have been waiting for a work permit that never arrived on a VE - to make the application you would need a Non B/Non O marriage - never applied rather than never arrived is more likely. It could be he means a 90 day non O, but that is applied for at a consul in another country, not border from bounces and is not 30 days.

[sandyf]

8 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

The problem is that the 'tourist spend' is down. We have seen the reports of record numbers of tourists - the problem is that they are not spending as much as they used to.

Indeed, but it is not really the "tourist spend" that is the issue, it is the GDP.  The government wouldn't be too concerned if there was reduced revenue from foreign tourists if that income could be generated from alternative sources.

During covid many countries learned a hard lesson in respect of tourism dependency and will now be desperately looking to generate alternative GDP revenue, Thailand being no exception.

If Thailand does manage to raise the GDP by other means then we should expect concessions on tourism to be curtailed.

Many are very quick to poo poo the proposals that are being regularly tabled but they are all part of a fishing expedition to see what may be viable as GDP revenue and what wouldn't.

[Ralf001]

11 minutes ago, mokwit said:

Not sure how he could have been waiting for a work permit that never arrived on a VE - to make the application you would need a Non B/Non O marriage - never applied rather than never arrived is more likely. It could be he means a 90 day non O, but that is applied for at a consul in another country, not border from bounces and is not 30 days.

 

Not only was he not waiting for a WP as you correctly point out he also did not buy a Triton on finance as no financial intstitution would approve the loan to someone on VE entry.

[Phulublub]

22 hours ago, mokwit said:

I'm saying how and where will they enforce TM30 and 90 day. They enforce it currently when people go for an extension, whether 1 year or 30 day VE, but not at borders entering and leaving so DTV people fall through the TM30/47 reporting enforcement under current enforcement - can stay 5 years and Immigration will never know where they are. Immigration enforce TM30/47 on US like it is important, but hardly enforce it on Landlords.

If anyone on Non-O hops abroad once a year they also do not "need" to report TM47....just go abroad less than 90 days before your annual extension.

Or ditch your Non-O and buy a DTV...this is an additional choice, not a restriction on anyone.

 

Whingers whinging for the sake of it.

 

PH