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Posted
23 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

@Bandersnatch just posted this on the Electric Vehicles In Thailand Thread, it's worth watching as it tells you what is really happening, and more importantly, what the future is.

 

 

 

Poor old Sam is now the definition of a White Monkey.

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Posted
4 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

A few countries have tried Hydrogen and consumers didn't like it in any of them.  The main issue is cost.  Hydrogen costs about 4 times more than charging an EV and that's an unsolvable major issue without subsidies.  Storage in the car is also a major issue, the tanks take up vast amounts of space and in the Toyota Mirai the rear seats are only suitable for children. 

Hydrogen definitely is the way to go. Just imagine the quality of fires 🔥 we would have.

GOQoWNPWwAASxWw.jpeg

Posted

This is from CNBC today.

Now, it will not include the thousands who want to save face and not admit what a huge mistake and waste they are.  Well over 50% would be my guess.  And the depreciation of these vehicles is huge over a short period of time.

...

Nearly 30% of electric vehicle owners globally are likely to switch back to internal combustion engine vehicles, according to a recent survey of consumers around the world conducted by McKinsey.

 

Many U.S. EV owners, in particular, are having second thoughts. According to the McKinsey survey, 46% of U.S. EV owners claimed they were likely to switch back to ICEs, well above the 29% global average of EV owners who stated they were likely or very likely to switch back to gas-powered cars, which included drivers from Australia, Brazil, China, Germany, Norway, France, Italy, and South Korea.

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Posted
40 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

This is from CNBC today.

Now, it will not include the thousands who want to save face and not admit what a huge mistake and waste they are.  Well over 50% would be my guess.  And the depreciation of these vehicles is huge over a short period of time.

...

Nearly 30% of electric vehicle owners globally are likely to switch back to internal combustion engine vehicles, according to a recent survey of consumers around the world conducted by McKinsey.

 

Many U.S. EV owners, in particular, are having second thoughts. According to the McKinsey survey, 46% of U.S. EV owners claimed they were likely to switch back to ICEs, well above the 29% global average of EV owners who stated they were likely or very likely to switch back to gas-powered cars, which included drivers from Australia, Brazil, China, Germany, Norway, France, Italy, and South Korea.

 

i asked chatgpt about McKinsey: 

"McKinsey is generally a credible source, but it's always wise to critically evaluate its reports and consider them alongside other sources to get a balanced view."

 

but let's allow the customer and the future to decide. it will be interesting to see where we stand in 10 years ...

 

 

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Posted

BYD customers appeal to the Consumers' Foundation to return their cars and receive compensation for the price difference

On July 25, 2024, Mr. Thanat Thamisakun, Director of the Consumer Protection Center, Foundation for Consumers and Head of the Bangkok Provincial Office of the Consumer Council, revealed that a group of BYD car users had filed a complaint with the foundation for assistance..

The head of the Consumer Protection Center of the Consumer Council revealed that the council will collect the damages of the complainants and will coordinate with the car sales company to provide compensation to the victims. Today, the demands of the complainants have been mutually agreed upon and the following proposals have been made:

1. Let the company buy back the said car model.

2. Compensate the difference as car buyers should receive, namely the ATTO 3 model at a price of 400,000 baht and the Dolphin model at a price of 220,000 baht...

https://www.prachachat.net/motoring/news-1616079

I can't see this going anywhere but there are similar complaints in the Neta facebook groups about Neta recent price reductions

People are saying don't buy when vehicle is launched wait for at least 3 price reductions before you buy

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Posted
30 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

People are saying don't buy when vehicle is launched wait for at least 3 price reductions before you buy

 

how the price reduction vent was just not the right move... it caused a lot of damage!

 

i think it will take a few years for ev's prices to stabilize, because right now there's a lot of room for improvement, a lot of competitions for market share, battery costs are falling ... and so on.

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Posted
On 7/23/2024 at 2:00 PM, hotchilli said:

The elites in Thailand have bought their premium brand EV if they wanted one.. they have the resources to do so.

The rest living on a budget are opting for the affordable Chine brands.

 

On 7/23/2024 at 2:31 PM, motdaeng said:

 

that was and still is true for all ICE cars as well ... nothing new!

 

btw, affordable chinese ev cars are much better than their reputation suggests,

and their prices are coming down too ...

 


There are 2 members here who had Premium EV’s, as Premium as you get in Thailand and both of us have bought BYD Seal Performance models.

 

They are stunning cars, the quality is up there with the Premium cars.

 

There are differences, smaller tyres, no air suspension, but better spec’s as standard with things like head-up displays, seat ventilation, heat rejecting panoramic roofs, premium audio which are all extra-cost on German Premium EV’s.

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Posted
8 hours ago, vinny41 said:

BYD customers appeal to the Consumers' Foundation to return their cars and receive compensation for the price difference

On July 25, 2024, Mr. Thanat Thamisakun, Director of the Consumer Protection Center, Foundation for Consumers and Head of the Bangkok Provincial Office of the Consumer Council, revealed that a group of BYD car users had filed a complaint with the foundation for assistance..

The head of the Consumer Protection Center of the Consumer Council revealed that the council will collect the damages of the complainants and will coordinate with the car sales company to provide compensation to the victims. Today, the demands of the complainants have been mutually agreed upon and the following proposals have been made:

1. Let the company buy back the said car model.

2. Compensate the difference as car buyers should receive, namely the ATTO 3 model at a price of 400,000 baht and the Dolphin model at a price of 220,000 baht...

https://www.prachachat.net/motoring/news-1616079

I can't see this going anywhere but there are similar complaints in the Neta facebook groups about Neta recent price reductions

People are saying don't buy when vehicle is launched wait for at least 3 price reductions before you buy

 

FB_IMG_1721943809886.jpg

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Posted
On 7/24/2024 at 8:25 AM, JBChiangRai said:

 

A well thought out and reasoned post.  "Most people who have them wish they did not" can I have some of whatever it is you're smoking?

 

 

It's very sad.  Some of us were born poor but through initiative, risking everything they had and more than a little hard work became comfortably off. 

 

Whilst others don't take risks in their lives and work the 9 to 5, rising to the top if they have good qualities or retiring poor if they were generally unpopular people with personality defects who think those who made it in life are as "shallow as a mud puddle".

 

 

It is not about the numbers, it is about the trend.  In their first year Tesla sold 100 cars, they were all pre-ordered many for longer than a year.

 

In their second year they sold 900 cars.

 

If you look at the numbers as @vinny41 would have us do, you would say pfft, it's nothing, insignificant compared to the millions of ICE cars sold.

 

However, if you look at the trend, it points to what is important, people were switching their allegiance from ICE to EV.

 

It's the same with BMW, their EV sales increase in the article is 40%. That is the trend.

 

If we look at all EV sales in Thailand, a similar pattern emerges.  You have to look at EV sales compared to ICE cars.  You can't look at EV sales alone.  So the best metric for buyer behaviour is to look at all the new cars sold and in particular look at the percentage of EV's out of the whole and the percentage of ICE as a whole.

 

January is unusual and had to be discounted for obvious reasons (subsidy ending and big push to register 2023 cars).

 

So we have February, March, April, May & June.  In each of those months the market share of EV's increased over the previous month and correspondingly, the market share of ICE cars decreased each month.

 

The trend is clear, of all those people choosing to buy a new car, a greater percentage of them every month chose an EV over an ICE.

 

Why are people choosing EV's over ICE?  The advantages are clear, they cost 20% of an ICE car to refuel.  You can wake up every morning to a full tank. They drive better, they are as quiet as a Rolls Royce, there is no vibration from the engine.  They are fast, there is a direct relationship between acceleration & pleasure.  In Thailand, they cost about the same.

 

Why are people choosing ICE over EV? It's either FUD (fear uncertainty & doubt) over things like Will the battery fail? Will it catch fire? Will it depreciate really badly? Can I make long trips? Or it could be that their usage pattern makes it more difficult to own an EV, they may live in a condo, most of their trips are long distance.  The other reason is VFM, Value for Money (but not in Thailand).

 

America and EU apply tariffs on Chinese EV's, so the great VFM advantage disappears. FUD & the battery issue is being addressed by manufacturers, MG just gave a lifetime warranty on their batteries, others may follow suit. Catching fire is about education, it's a fact proven with statistics from several countries that EV's catch fire a lot less than ICE cars, more than 10 times less.  Depreciation in some countries is an issue, in Thailand and Norway it isn't.  I recently sold an MG EP+ and I had to fight off potential buyers, it sold to the first caller.  I am looking for a second-hand ORA Good Cat for one of my daughters, they are too expensive for me, I will probably buy new.

 

I have a 76 year old lady friend.  A couple of months back she bought a new MG4 X-Power, she can't charge at home as she lives off grid.  She goes to PTT and fast charges her car whilst she has a coffee in Amazon, it suits her lifestyle but it doesn't suit everybody.  She doesn't think twice about driving to Chiang Mai for a weekend.

 

As more and more people switch to EV's their friends and neighbours see they have them and hear good reports and they make the switch too.  Look at California and Norway.  Thailand is leading the way in Asia for a very simple reason.  You can buy a high-quality Chinese EV at the same price or less than an ICE equivalent because there are no tariffs.

 

There are a lot of us on this forum who drive EV's, we are not all stupid.

 

 

 

Drive better? With 500 extra kilograms? Are you brainwashed?

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Posted
5 minutes ago, MartinBangkok said:

Drive better? With 500 extra kilograms? Are you brainwashed?


No, I am experienced.

 

Generally heavier, cars drive better, that is a fact.

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Posted
3 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:


No, I am experienced.

 

Generally heavier, cars drive better, that is a fact.

 

That is not a fact.

 

It is spectacularly ill informed.

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:


Nonsense.

 

That is taken from my own experience. Heavier cars are generally more luxurious, quieter, smoother, faster, better driving.

I'll give you a clue: Half a ton extra for the suspension, bearings, (esentially all parts impacted by the load) brakes and wheels to resist (potholes, braking distance, gravital force through bends) The last two even worse in slippery conditions. 

Edited by MartinBangkok
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Posted
20 minutes ago, MartinBangkok said:

I'll give you a clue: Half a ton extra for the suspension, bearings, (esentially all parts with connection to the road) brakes and wheels to resist (potholes, braking distance, gravital force through bends) Everything even worse in slippery conditions. 


You missed out better road holding because of a much lower center of gravity.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:


You missed out better road holding because of a much lower center of gravity.

And you think that beats the considerable extra gravitational force in bends and dramatically lower grip?

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Posted
1 hour ago, MartinBangkok said:

And you think that beats the considerable extra gravitational force in bends and dramatically lower grip?


Actually, it is dramatically higher grip due to the extra downforce and increase pressure between tyre contact point and road.

 

It is also the ratio of sprung to unsprung weight.

 

Ask any EV owner how their cars handle.

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Posted
22 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

But he hasn't ever owned a BYD!

 

One unnamed anti-EV guy's uninformed opinion.

 

Stop the bus! I want to get off!

you dont read the post , and unqualified answer. and i think you never wowned a byd by yourself

 

The NO GO , to buy the BYD , after a test drive and sitting in the car. was the hudge smell of plastic parts. I feel like sitting in a chemical lab. Yes new Cras always smelling , bút this was 10 fold like a fiat honda or whatever. secondary , the cheaper plastic parts ( or feel cheaper)

rest of the car was impressive and nice

 

but the smell was a nogo

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Posted
15 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I do own a BYD.

 

No smell at all in mine, except when I fart and for sure, you wouldn't want to be there then.

 

The quality of the plastics is excellent in mine, and the vegan leather, and the alcantara.

Vegan leather...

Do you vote Democrats too?

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Posted
On 7/23/2024 at 4:57 AM, redwood1 said:

Maybe in the future decades EVs might be worth buying but now they are a very poor investment and also a whole lot of trouble for many reasons.....Their sales are very slow all over the world...

 

very very few people buy cars as an investment, pretty much every new cars loses value the moment its driven of the forecourt.

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Posted
20 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I do own a BYD.

 

No smell at all in mine, except when I fart and for sure, you wouldn't want to be there then.

 

The quality of the plastics is excellent in mine, and the vegan leather, and the alcantara.

 

5 hours ago, MartinBangkok said:

Vegan leather...

Do you vote Democrats too?

 

I am not from the former colonies.

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