UK Winter Fuel Payments Scrapped for Millions Amid Budget Cuts

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Because it’s an earned entitlement.

 

But I have zero doubt that the proposed cancellation of NI was intended to break the link between payment of NI and entitlement to pensions.

 

It’s a common refrain, ‘we earned our pensions’.

 

No other ‘benefit’ is do firmly linked in people’s minds as something they have earned.

That is not entirely true. Under the 1975 pension reforms NI credits were introduced and some are receiving the state pension based on credits rather than physical deductions from earnings. I seem to think the credits can also be transferred.

For many years the government has been trying to change the rhetoric around the state pension to that of a welfare state benefit. It is some time now since they started to divert NI contributions into other benefits, trying to make out that NI is nothing more than additional taxation and looking to merge it into income tax.

The state pension comes under the Social Security Act and the government uses that to suit the agenda.

[Chomper Higgot]

11 minutes ago, sandyf said:

For many years the government has been trying to change the rhetoric around the state pension to that of a welfare state benefit.

Correct.

 

But while NI remains in place at pensions are an earned entitlement.

People in mid working life or nearing retirement have a very reasonable expectation of receiving a pension on the basis of NI contributions they have payed.

 

Remove NI and that link is broken, pensions become a benefit and just like ‘Winter Fuel Allowances’ can be means tested or removed altogether with a stroke of a ministerial pen.

 

Binning plans to get rid of NI is a very positive move for ordinary working people.

 

[proton]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Agree.

 

But my point is pensions are directly earned and the link between paying NI and pension entitlement is firmly established.

 

Remove NI and pensions become a benefit not an earned entitlement.

 

Pensions are already legally a benefit, not an entitlement and have been categorised as such since Blairs time

[proton]

58 minutes ago, worgeordie said:

I suppose this means that any hope expats had of having their frozen

pensions unfrozen is well and truly out the window ,

 

regards worgeordie 

 

The buggers will almost certainly at some point be means testing pensions 

[transam]

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

You mean crunch? what would that be? nuclear missiles and a 5 minute warning, or hoards of Cassocks storming Beachy Head. I'll be in Thailand, popcorn in hand.

Of course, you will, still running down your birthplace, I bet your parents would be proud of you..............😬

[Denim]

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

or hoards of Cassocks storming Beachy Head.

 

God, what a spectacle that would be 

 

[soalbundy]

1 hour ago, worgeordie said:

I suppose this means that any hope expats had of having their frozen

pensions unfrozen is well and truly out the window ,

 

regards worgeordie 

It was never an option when the UK was wealthy, certainly not now when it is broke. The West is floating on a sea of debt, I fear that the methods it will use to solve this unfortunate state of affairs won't be to our liking. It is said that the future belongs to Asia but they too have their own problems. Until there is cohesion in the world, until we can throw away old concepts we can never be without fear and poverty. Energy and fresh water are going to be key points in the future. Expat pensioners are very low on the sympathy scale anywhere, we aren't even a problem to be solved.

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, Denim said:

 

God, what a spectacle that would be 

 

and all because of an 'o'

[transam]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Absolutely not.

 

The current Government hasn’t enacted any policies that could possibly result in outcomes within the less than a month they have been in office.

 

So yes, inane, that’s the word.

 

 

One thing for sure, if Labour cocks it all up over the next 4 years, which they will, you will say...

 

"Oh, but things were so bad left by the Tory's, it was near impossible to do anything about it, but they did their best with the help of the immigrants who slaved away to improve things, but alas, even they, given a new house etc, it was too tall a task to overcome, I blame Boris and his addiction of a beer on his birthday, the evil chap"...........

[soalbundy]

9 minutes ago, transam said:

Of course, you will, still running down your birthplace, I bet your parents would be proud of you..............😬

They are dead and like the rest of my family they too saw the writing on the wall and left.

[youreavinalaff]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The current Government hasn’t enacted any policies that could possibly result in outcomes 

 

 

 

Isn't the idea of policies to create outcomes?

 

I'd suggest giving doctors 22% and public sector workers 5.5% plus scrapping winter fuel payments for may pensioners will create outcomes.

 

In fact Age.UK have already spoken about outcomes as have National College of Nurses Union. Outcomes not favorable to many of the public or the national economy.

 

More that half of the black hole has been an outcome created by the pay rises.

[transam]

4 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

They are dead and like the rest of my family they too saw the writing on the wall and left.

As I said "would", the rest sounds great for the UK........

[soalbundy]

37 minutes ago, transam said:

As I said "would", the rest sounds great for the UK........

You have also left, why didn't you stay and share the joys of being British in England

[placeholder]

3 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

Why would you pay a doctor in UK? 

Demand for private healthcare hits record high in UK
Demand for private healthcare has soared to record levels in the UK as patients increasingly turn away from an NHS beset with chronic backlogs, data published on Tuesday showed.
There were 898,000 admissions to private hospitals in 2023 — more than any year since records began in 2016 — according to the independent Private Healthcare Information Network (PHIN), an organisation paid for by private providers that tracks treatment data.
This represented a 7 per cent rise in the number of times that people opted for private treatment since 2022, when the figure stood at 836,000.

https://archive.ph/6342s

https://www.ft.com/content/a4f07a08-b7e9-4330-9915-c2640edf7866

[transam]

1 minute ago, soalbundy said:

You have also left, why didn't you stay and share the joys of being British in England

I retired, put my feet up in a climate that suited my bones, not like you, wanted a life in Germany at a young age, I do wonder why, but not my business......

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Binning plans to get rid of NI is a very positive move for ordinary working people.

No NI would mean a basic rate of income tax of 40%, which would probably be unacceptable to the voters.

[placeholder]

3 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

You just can't stop the blame game, can you?

 

There was a global pandemic, if you remember. Hospital appointments were virtually closed down for 2 years. Then there were the strikes because of unions ridiculous demands. 

The past and future of NHS waiting lists in England

 The NHS elective waiting list in England was already growing pre-pandemic, as growth in demand for care outstripped growth in the service’s ability to provide it. The waiting list doubled in a decade from 2.3 million ‘incomplete pathways’ (where the patient has been referred but is waiting for treatment) in January 2010 to 4.6 million in December 2019. Waiting times also increased over this period, particularly the longest waits.

https://ifs.org.uk/publications/past-and-future-nhs-waiting-lists-england

[transam]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Demand for private healthcare hits record high in UK
Demand for private healthcare has soared to record levels in the UK as patients increasingly turn away from an NHS beset with chronic backlogs, data published on Tuesday showed.
There were 898,000 admissions to private hospitals in 2023 — more than any year since records began in 2016 — according to the independent Private Healthcare Information Network (PHIN), an organisation paid for by private providers that tracks treatment data.
This represented a 7 per cent rise in the number of times that people opted for private treatment since 2022, when the figure stood at 836,000.

https://archive.ph/6342s

https://www.ft.com/content/a4f07a08-b7e9-4330-9915-c2640edf7866

Great, income must have been going up under the Tory's, but don't tell Chomper, he will not believe it, his chum can't afford to heat his house even with a 40% tax income....😱

[youreavinalaff]

13 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Demand for private healthcare hits record high in UK
Demand for private healthcare has soared to record levels in the UK as patients increasingly turn away from an NHS beset with chronic backlogs, data published on Tuesday showed.
There were 898,000 admissions to private hospitals in 2023 — more than any year since records began in 2016 — according to the independent Private Healthcare Information Network (PHIN), an organisation paid for by private providers that tracks treatment data.
This represented a 7 per cent rise in the number of times that people opted for private treatment since 2022, when the figure stood at 836,000.

https://archive.ph/6342s

https://www.ft.com/content/a4f07a08-b7e9-4330-9915-c2640edf7866

Doesn't answer the question I asked.

[RayC]

4 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   That will be Brexits fault 

 

Certainly a factor. Bht55/£1 in May 2016. Pound fell back to 45 after referendum. Not been close to Bht50/£1 since.

[soalbundy]

4 minutes ago, transam said:

I retired, put my feet up in a climate that suited my bones, not like you, wanted a life in Germany at a young age, I do wonder why, but not my business......

As a teenager on a camping holiday in Cornwall I met two young Germans also camping, we became friends, they invited me to Munich the next year, the life style fascinated me. When I returned home I started learning German, I picked it up quickly, the first German book I read, Der Pater, 'the Godfather' with a dictionary and a German girlfriend to help. Later I found work in an office designing air conditioning layouts for factories in Fürstenfeldbruck, I knew nothing about air con and had to learn on the job, Germany was booming and finding work was easy, the rest is history, I never returned to the UK.

[placeholder]

10 minutes ago, transam said:

Great, income must have been going up under the Tory's, but don't tell Chomper, he will not believe it, his chum can't afford to heat his house even with a 40% tax income....😱

Income must have been going up?

"By the time inflation started to surge, both productivity and pay had been stagnating for well over a decade.Real wages grew by an average of 33% each decade from 1970 to 2007; but they are now back at the level they were at in 2005, according to data from the Office for National Statistics, ONS (Times, 2023)."

https://www.economicsobservatory.com/why-has-it-taken-so-long-for-stagnant-pay-to-become-central-to-uk-politics

 

[RayC]

4 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

Here in UK my wife has a doctors appointment today. Booked it last week. My father is due an op. On the waiting list for 4 weeks already, due on 27th August.

 

It's not as bad as some like to make out.

 

That depends on what you consider 'bad'.

 

The NHS lags the majority of other European countries when it comes to targets. For example, Belgium sets itself the target of patients getting a GP appointment within a day and being seen by a specialist within two weeks. It used to meet those targets in more than 60% of cases (not sure if that is still the case).

[stevenl]

31 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Demand for private healthcare hits record high in UK
Demand for private healthcare has soared to record levels in the UK as patients increasingly turn away from an NHS beset with chronic backlogs, data published on Tuesday showed.
There were 898,000 admissions to private hospitals in 2023 — more than any year since records began in 2016 — according to the independent Private Healthcare Information Network (PHIN), an organisation paid for by private providers that tracks treatment data.
This represented a 7 per cent rise in the number of times that people opted for private treatment since 2022, when the figure stood at 836,000.

https://archive.ph/6342s

https://www.ft.com/content/a4f07a08-b7e9-4330-9915-c2640edf7866

For a comparison there should be a number for admissions to nhs hospitals.

[RayC]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If they can't pay the winter fuel allowance to stop pensioners freezing to death, they certainly can't afford to send one more penny to Ukraine.

 

Putin's senior apologist has joined the conversation

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, transam said:

One thing for sure, if Labour cocks it all up over the next 4 years, which they will, you will say...

 

"Oh, but things were so bad left by the Tory's, it was near impossible to do anything about it, but they did their best with the help of the immigrants who slaved away to improve things, but alas, even they, given a new house etc, it was too tall a task to overcome, I blame Boris and his addiction of a beer on his birthday, the evil chap"...........

Thanks for imagining things I haven’t myself said.

 

Now feel free to argue with the things you yourself imagine.

 

Update me when it dawns on you that you are arguing with yourself.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, youreavinalaff said:

Isn't the idea of policies to create outcomes?

 

I'd suggest giving doctors 22% and public sector workers 5.5% plus scrapping winter fuel payments for may pensioners will create outcomes.

 

In fact Age.UK have already spoken about outcomes as have National College of Nurses Union. Outcomes not favorable to many of the public or the national economy.

 

More that half of the black hole has been an outcome created by the pay rises.

A bit of a sly, though not entirely unexpected, misrepresentation of my post by deliberately truncating it.

 

Full text of my post you felt you needed to bastardize below:

 

3 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Absolutely not.

 

The current Government hasn’t enacted any policies that could possibly result in outcomes within the less than a month they have been in office.

 

So yes, inane, that’s the word.

 

 

 

[transam]

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

Thanks for imagining things so haven’t myself said.

 

Now feel free to argue with the things you yourself imagine.

 

Update me when it dawns on you that you are arguing with yourself.

Ooooooh no, you, wherever you come from, are known here. I look forward to seeing Labours cock-ups and you, making excuses for them, the same you have also done for your imported chums. 

Your Party has already stated financial hits on folk..It will be fun, guaranteed...

[placeholder]

45 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Doesn't answer the question I asked.

Here's your question again: 

Was your reply based on the fact that private insurance isn't technically paying doctors? That it's the insurers who pay? That's a pretty misleading reed on which to anchor your argument. The point being of course, that a rising number of Britons are so dissatisfied with the NHS that they are paying additional funds out of their own pockets to patronize private care. But even by that misleading standard of yours, according to the article, private payments directly to doctors have also risen to record levels.

[youreavinalaff]

48 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

That depends on what you consider 'bad'.

 

The NHS lags the majority of other European countries when it comes to targets. For example, Belgium sets itself the target of patients getting a GP appointment within a day and being seen by a specialist within two weeks. It used to meet those targets in more than 60% of cases (not sure if that is still the case).

I currently live in UK. Don't give a hoot what's happening in Belgium.