Several neighbouring countries compete with Thailand for foreign retirees

[retarius]

7 hours ago, Mason45 said:

I'm sitting on the fence in regards to the tax issue. I'll just wait and see if it really does come into play. I've a feeling it won't as how would the public servants and the system handle this as most are stressed out now.

Like everybody else, I have no idea what will happen when the new taxation schemes come into effect. I have a high risk of having to pay a substantial sum if the authorities really mean what they say about worldwide income. So I decided to become non-resident for tax. I am lucky that I have a second home so it is not expensive for me to sped time outside Thailand. I have decided to move quickly and act this year....the reason being that although I do not owe anything this year (although I do expect to have to fight hard for a zero tax rating), I don't want a tax form on file, and then questions asked next year about why I haven't filed for 2025. When the details of how the taxes will be collected and operate (probably some time in 2026) I will make the decision to0 be a tax exile or not. 

[watchcat]

6 hours ago, thesetat2013 said:

Do they see that many foreigners are considering leaving Thailand before they begin imposing taxes next year? 

 

I don't think that will happen

[Celsius]

45 minutes ago, Polaky said:

If you have a million dollars you will certainly attract lovely Serbian women, but why stop there, from Europe you have many nationalities with many choices, Belarus, Russian etc, I think the reason Europeans come to Thailand is because of the climate.

 

I have dual Serb/CAD citizenship

[Roo Island]

There are quite a few alternatives that aren't in Asia. Digital nomad visas abound and some require little proof that you are one. I've got friends who've gotten them in Spain for 3 years, another in Croatia for 1 year. Portugal use to be good but the tax laws changed, so no longer good.

 

Greece has a golden visa with the purchase of property. France has a retirement visa that's pretty easy to get and you end up with pretty decent health care.

 

I got tired of the bad air, water, polluted seas, terrible traffic. Still love Thailand and will return one day. But for now, exploring Europe and the UK. Loving it here.

 

Serbia is quite nice. Though a bit cold in the winter!

[billd766]

6 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

Retirees want to relax if they move somewhere, what they do not want is having to tie up money in a Thai bank, and report like a criminal every 90 days and keep your fingers crossed you get another year extension every year. Retiring to a place where with one swish of a pen you could be living in the box on the street of your home country is not enticing to some.

 

1   You don't have to tie up money in the bank if you can prove that you have enough monthly income.

 

2   You can do 90 day reporting on line if you wish.

 

3   You can be deported from ANY country except your home country should they decide that the authorities don't want you in their country.

 

4   If you can't afford to live in Thailand, then you probably can't afford to live at the same quality in your home country.

[hotchilli]

9 minutes ago, nickmondo said:

give examples of where Thailand is failing as you have mentioned above

For some expats all of the above have been their undoing at some point.

[Roo Island]

48 minutes ago, Polaky said:

If you have a million dollars you will certainly attract lovely Serbian women, but why stop there, from Europe you have many nationalities with many choices, Belarus, Russian etc, I think the reason Europeans come to Thailand is because of the climate.

Climate is a big issue. Currently in Scotland and it's fantastic. Though a bit cool and some rain. For sure don't want to be in the UK during the winter! And because of climate change, don't want to be in southern Europe during the summer. But loving Scotland. Clean air, drinkable water, great produce, sane drivers. Out for another 10k walk today. Loving it here right now

[bubblegum]

I'm thinking Bulgaria, easy for us Europeans and cheaper than Thailand.

[Flyguy330]

4 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

Two countries, I know of, tried to remove tax benefits for foreign retirees: Portugal and Malaysia, both backpedaled on their initial urge to extort, watering down and or grandfathering their "innovative" schemes.

Your info is out of date. Malaysia proposed a Remittance Tax in October 2022 and it was to start on Jan 1st 2023. There was an outcry from locals (yes, many locals work overseas and remit money) and the Government backed down, said they would defer the change for 5 years. That's where you probably stopped paying attention. As did many.

However in June 2023 the Government announced that they had 'gazetted' the Remittance Tax law (meaning they put it on the statute books, contrary to their earlier promise) and FURTHERMORE they BACKDATED it to Jan 1st (the original planned inception date).

So Malaysia now taxes remittances (with certain exceptions).

To be fair to them, and indeed Thailand, this Remittance Tax is something forced on them by the OECD, whose policies seem to be driven by the GOOD OLE U S of A!

Thanks Buddy!!

[tomacht8]

I know a few people who have stopped or are at least reconsidering their plans to retire in Thailand. Almost everyone has planned to sell their fully paid-up home and transfer the money to Thailand in order to live comfortably along with their regular pension. A single-family home in a big city, in a good location, can be sold for 500K Euros or around 20 million Thai baht. Anyone who then transfers these 20 million THB to Thailand in the hope of enjoying a peaceful retirement runs the risk of having to pay up to 35% in taxes. That would be around 7 million Thai baht or 185K Euros. Nobody who can do math will do that. Therefore, Thailand will lose a large piece of the pie of well-off pensioners in the future.

Edited August 21 by tomacht8

[Roo Island]

27 minutes ago, bubblegum said:

I'm thinking Bulgaria, easy for us Europeans and cheaper than Thailand.

But very cold in the winter.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, newnative said:

Not falling short for me on any of the issues you mentioned.

Nor is it falling short for me.

 

42 minutes ago, Thaindrew said:

as everything it Thailand is taxed as income you quickly move up to fairly high rates of tax, usually much higher than in your home country 

 

https://www.taxually.com/blog/uk-vat-rate-all-you-need-to-know-for-2023-2024#:~:text=What is the UK VAT,in the UK is 20%.

 

The VAT rate in the UK is 20%. In Thailand it is 7%.

 

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9993/#:~:text=Income tax,-Income tax on&text=For 2024%2F25 these three,to pay tax on it.

 

Income tax on earned income is charged at three rates: the basic rate, the higher rate and the additional rate.

For 2024/25 these three rates are 20%, 40% and 45% respectively.

Tax is charged on ‘taxable income’ at the basic 20% rate up to the basic rate limit, set at £37,700. Taxable income excludes personal allowances, which are the amount of money someone can receive without having to pay tax on it.

 

Fuel, electricity, housing, land, house rentals and vehicles are all cheaper in Thailand than the UK, as is food and drink.

 

In Thailand I live in a 4 bedroom house on an acre of land that belongs to my Thai wife. In the UK i could not even afford to rent a 2up, 2 down house with no garden or land in a slum area. For those people who may say that I will be homeless if my Thai wife divorces me, I have been homeless before when I divorced my first wife. and the alimony I had to pay then, back in the late 1990s was high.

 

I feel far safer in Thailand than I did in the UK.

 

In the UK I get 3 pensions. My state pension is tax free as it has been frozen since I got it in 2009. I pay income tax on the other 2 pensions. In Thailand my military pension is not taxed and I would pay no Thai income tax on my state pension or company pension.

[tomacht8]

40 minutes ago, watchcat said:

hours ago, thesetat2013 said:

Do they see that many foreigners are considering leaving Thailand before they begin imposing taxes next year? 

 

40 minutes ago, watchcat said:

 

I don't think that will happen

 

I'm actually making plans to stay in Thailand for under 180 days a year to avoid tax resident status. Then there will be more travel; I can also spend my hard-earned and already taxed money in other countries.

[TonyFromItaly]

1 hour ago, impulse said:

 

If that's true, (I have no reason to doubt it, but it sounds too good...), add that to Thailand's new unlimited land border crossings and I could see a lot of expats moving across the river to avoid the 400/800K baht requirement for extensions, the 90 day reports, as yet unknown tax implications, and that tight feeling in their buttcheeks every year when it's time to renew.

 

Thailand would get more tourist arrivals as we (because I may be one of them) cross over to visit several times a year, or perhaps even several entries per month, but the expats will be spending the majority of their sweaty money in Cambodia.

 

You gave me a great idea!!
👍
Tony

[BritScot]

8 hours ago, hotchilli said:

I wonder if a Thai tax receipt will be required when applying for a POS in the future

You bet your bottom dollar it will! Fitting in with stupid photos sitting on your bed with wife and children and also sitting in front of your house. Remember, proof of income letter, proof of money in the bank, 6 months bank statements etc... their aim is to squeeze every last penny then can and the breaks will only be applied if there is a significant exodus out of Thailand. 

[hotchilli]

5 minutes ago, BritScot said:

You bet your bottom dollar it will! Fitting in with stupid photos sitting on your bed with wife and children and also sitting in front of your house. Remember, proof of income letter, proof of money in the bank, 6 months bank statements etc... their aim is to squeeze every last penny then can and the breaks will only be applied if there is a significant exodus out of Thailand. 

Doing my 16th POS as we speak, they must have a pile of paperwork somewhere taller than my house.

[Burma Bill]

8 hours ago, Homburg said:

"Thailand offers a multiplicity of long term visas......" All of which seems to be thoughtfully designed to deter as many applicants as possible. By contrast in Cambodia, retirees pay an annual (multiple entry) visa extension fee of c.$200 (c.$300 via an agent with no need to ever set foot in immigration, just drop off your passport with a pic, pay the fee and collect it in about a week). And that's it. No mountains of paperwork, no bank deposit, no re-entry permits, no 90 day reporting. Just come and go as you please. One page in the passport is used up each year for the visa (plus entry and exit stamps). One gripe: the annual extension is for 364 days only!

 

Yes indeed. Cambodia is so easy and hassle free regarding visas and this was the main reason I left Thailand after 20 years to continue my retirement across the border in Khmer Land which is now approaching 5 years.   If you are 55 years or older and want a retirement visa for whatever period, PLEASE NOTE in addition to what is quoted above, you must show your registration on Cambodia Immigration FPCS (Foreign Persons in Cambodia System). The onus is not on you but on your landlord, property owner, hotel manager etc. My annual retirement visa is due this coming October and my landlord will accompany me to show the FPCS registration on his smart phone. (I do not own one so do not have the app)

Edited August 21 by Burma Bill
additional information

[tomacht8]

1 hour ago, kingstonkid said:

Someone will correct me if I am wrong but if you are taxed in your home country and they have a tax treaty with Thailand I understand that stops them. 

This can be tricky. Thailand already wants to have the tax return for 2024 by March 31, 2025. In my home country I normally have time until May 31, 2025 (with a tax advisor even until December 31, 2025). Who can collect my tax money first and in which direction the DTA will go with the crediting of tax credits? A mammoth, bureaucratic paperwork that no taxpayer wants. Thailand has lost this year from me, around 2-3 million THB in capital imports and domestic consumption alone. No new car, no new refrigerator and no new addition/ maintenance to the house.

[Toby1947]

6 hours ago, Celsius said:

I have million dolla..... I'm going back to Serbia. Better food and white women.

Bull<deleted> you could buy Serbia for a hundred dollars 

[BE88]

39 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

I know a few people who have stopped or are at least reconsidering their plans to retire in Thailand. Almost everyone has planned to sell their fully paid-up home and transfer the money to Thailand in order to live comfortably along with their regular pension. A single-family home in a big city, in a good location, can be sold for 500K Euros or around 20 million Thai baht. Anyone who then transfers these 20 million THB to Thailand in the hope of enjoying a peaceful retirement runs the risk of having to pay up to 35% in taxes. That would be around 7 million Thai baht or 185K Euros. Nobody who can do math will do that. Therefore, Thailand will lose a large piece of the pie of well-off pensioners in the future.

 

There is no one left who makes this investment in Thailand unless he has lost his mind.

[newnative]

36 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

I know a few people who have stopped or are at least reconsidering their plans to retire in Thailand. Almost everyone has planned to sell their fully paid-up home and transfer the money to Thailand in order to live comfortably along with their regular pension. A single-family home in a big city, in a good location, can be sold for 500K Euros or around 20 million Thai baht. Anyone who then transfers these 20 million THB to Thailand in the hope of enjoying a peaceful retirement runs the risk of having to pay up to 35% in taxes. That would be around 7 million Thai baht or 185K Euros. Nobody who can do math will do that. Therefore, Thailand will lose a large piece of the pie of well-off pensioners in the future.

         Someone planning to retire to Thailand could wait until more than half the year is over and then transfer both the 20 million baht and themselves to Thailand.  No tax on the money since they have not been in the country 180 days, so not a tax resident that year.  

[Roo Island]

29 minutes ago, TonyFromItaly said:

You gave me a great idea!!
👍
Tony

Have you spent much time in Cambodia? Definitely not a great place to live. Health care is terrible.

[bubblegum]

42 minutes ago, Roo Island said:

But very cold in the winter.

Not everywhere but yes were I'm going I'll be skiing wintertime 

[spidermike007]

I think the reality is that they don't really want us here, I think they tolerate us, but they don't really want us here. After all we influence some of their women into asking questions, having open minds, and creative thinking! None of those are a good thing for a regressive regime. 

 

I think most Thai people are fine with us and don't have a problem with us it's the politicians and the incredibly toxic government that are xenophobic. 

[Roo Island]

1 minute ago, bubblegum said:

Not everywhere but yes were I'm going I'll be skiing wintertime 

I bet it's fantastic there for that. I spent most of my life in northern climates. Trying to avoid it now. 😆

[Airwolf]

4 hours ago, Drumbuie said:

 Most of you are from countries which have with DTAs with Thailand  -have you actually bothered to work out and compare the tax figures for your income?  I did, and I'll be better off paying tax here than being tax resident in the UK. 

Also it feels right to contribute to the general good ( no pun intended) of the country I live in, whose roads I drive on, whose electricity I use, whose people grow, sell and cook the food I eat, whose schools educated the doctor I see, etc etc

 

Always good to look beyond yourself at the bigger picture. 

 

We pay registration tax for roads. 
We pay for electricity. 
We pay for food & entertainment, a lot more than the average Thai.
We pay for doctors (a lot more than locals)

Most expats wouldn't mind paying tax, if we were treated like a resident rather than a tourist. 

[biggles45]

Philippines Options:-

1. Enter visa-free for 30 days, extend to total 59 days. Keep extending for a max of 36 months. Leave RP then return visa free entry and start again. No hassle from immigration for this. 

 

2. Resident Retirement Visa. (SRRV) A bank term DEPOSIT needed, amount varies. USA service folk deposit only $1,500°. No reporting to an migration office, EVER. The PRA, a govt agency, issues a member card, valid 2 years. You show it entering and leaving country. 

Had my SRRV 14 years, never a problem. Never visited a immig office in that time. 

Google PRA Philippines SRRV for more

[BE88]

In a normal civilized country the fact of having legally married a citizen gives advantages such as permanent residency but what is counted in Thailand is a sort of punishment.

 

Xenophobia in all its splendour, that Thailand can be considered a civilized country still has a long way to go if ever one day it will come.

[Roo Island]

2 minutes ago, biggles45 said:

Philippines Options:-

1. Enter visa-free for 30 days, extend to total 59 days. Keep extending for a max of 36 months. Leave RP then return visa free entry and start again. No hassle from immigration for this. 

 

2. Resident Retirement Visa. (SRRV) A bank term DEPOSIT needed, amount varies. USA service folk deposit only $1,500°. No reporting to an migration office, EVER. The PRA, a govt agency, issues a member card, valid 2 years. You show it entering and leaving country. 

Had my SRRV 14 years, never a problem. Never visited a immig office in that time. 

Google PRA Philippines SRRV for more

Most Filipinos I've met were dying to leave there. Way better in Thailand and no typhoons! LOL

[Hummin]

8 hours ago, Olav Seglem said:

I pay tax to thailand today. No big issue. Can transfer about the 650.000 annually before any tax at all. So "dont worry, be happy 🙂 "

Pay tax to a country who only take and not give anything back, just doesnt feel right. I know you save tax in Norway, but still