Its Happening - Law to Tax Overseas Income Now in Progress

[Bday Prang]

2 minutes ago, Lopburikid said:

The Thai revenue website says B150,000 un-taxable and 190,000 for over 56 is un-taxable income. Thai tax office say anything over 120,000 is taxable income. Again lying, cheating and stealing.

Lying , cheating and stealing , all mixed up with a generous dose of incompetance and finished with a splash of corruption.  Pretty normal for this place

[Surasak]

On 9/8/2024 at 10:48 AM, chiang mai said:

You wouldn't want to be in that scheme, even if it was free...I seriously doubt you'd use it anyway.

That I think would depend on the hospital and or the doctor. I have had an operation in a government hospital and am pleased with the result. Admittedly I had a private room, which was in fact on a par with a private hospital as was the menu. Dont run down a service on hearsay, you may be glad of it one day?

[Bluetongue]

So basically 20+ pages of more or less the same guff as the other enormous threads when the original changes were mooted. The only thing that had changed is their stated intention to try and upend all that and try taxing world wide income. The grey areas and minutiae are the elephant in the room. Most people’s circumstances differ in some way so you have to decide for yourself. Me I decided, to do nothing this year. I’ve potentially lost millions more baht out of currency fluctuations than tax. Certainly not going to be running into the RD trying to pay though. Eventually changes will come, I will deal with it then, or not. 

[Peterphuket]

The only way to avoid income tax is to take your money with you in cash every time you arrive in the country by plane.
But to have your assets, which you own in your home country, taxed by Thailand is of course hilarious and impossible, but yes TIT.

[Bday Prang]

3 minutes ago, Lopburikid said:

You know the bill hasn't been passed as yet, they say the earliest it may be passed is January 2025/

yet some on here appear to almost relish the prospect of paying tax here,  can they really be so desperate to do so.  Did they have the same enthusiasm for paying tax in their home countries, ?  From what I have read on the various threads I think some of them actually did.    

[TroubleandGrumpy]

14 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

I'm glad somebody thinks the same way as me,  I just noticed that this thread has now been designated as a  "must read"   personally I think nothing could be further from the truth.      Unless one considers scaremongering clickbait essential reading matter.  All these tax threads remind me of the various covid threads but without the censorship,  

Then dont read other people sharing their thoughts and opinions on the matter !!

I have done a lot of research etc etc but like everyone else I do not know or understand, and I can say with certainty that unless I had read these threads I would know a lot less.  It was on this forum, in another thread, that I first heard about the 'gifting rule'. And many other things read here that ended up being good for me, and lots that was crap. IMO take the good with the bad mate - or get lost and dont read.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

15 minutes ago, thecyclist said:

What about people who have no  income back home, but are just transferring their savings from home country to Thailand?

How are they going to differentiate between income and "just having money "?

I assume they won't. 

Nail on the head mate.  They might ask one day - so just keep records - definitely do not lodge a tax return.

[Bday Prang]

Just now, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Then dont read other people sharing their thoughts and opinions on the matter !!

I have done a lot of research etc etc but like everyone else I do not know or understand, and I can say with certainty that unless I had read these threads I would know a lot less.  It was on this forum, in another thread, that I first heard about the 'gifting rule'. And many other things read here that ended up being good for me, and lots that was crap. IMO take the good with the bad mate - or get lost and dont read.

you should follow your own advice regarding getting lost,  I will read  whatever I want  and comment however I like,   

[jwest10]

35 minutes ago, jwest10 said:

Yes, seen the old forms again and Form 91 income from employment only but the exemptions are on this and obviously Form 90 needs to be completed.
The heading on Form 91 does say from Employment  only and very confusing.
Thanks so much

Yes, there is another form Income Exemption Entitled from  from previous years where the 190k and 100k  is and transferred to Form 90  and correct but we wait and see and have posted elsewhere today re : seeing  the high official of the local tax office.

[Qld4000]

Ah well…if that’s the case I’ll be just staying the 180 days & do other  locations  for the remainder of the year .

Some nice alternatives only a quick flight within the region which I have always visited anyway to break up the day to day routine in Thailand. 
 

My income is from a Superannuation Fund and other sources which are Not taxed due to the Fund arrangement. 
Double Tax treaties won’t do anything either .

 

I see it as a fresh start with variety of lifestyle AND I’ll be saving a bundle in Tax I won’t be handing over to Thailand . 
In effect,,those sojourns will be more or less Free since the Tax bill I won’t be getting will more than cover it.  
 

win win….😆

 

 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

3 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

you should follow your own advice regarding getting lost,  I will read  whatever I want  and comment however I like,   

ROFLOL   Your own words :-

 

 

There may well be some tax "experts" on this forum, but their expertise expired the day they left their home country. 

They should not be advising anybody to do anything  regarding taxation here,  one might as well take advice from a taxi driver 

 

I just noticed that this thread has now been designated as a  "must read"   personally I think nothing could be further from the truth.      Unless one considers scaremongering clickbait essential reading matter.  All these tax threads remind me of the various covid threads but without the censorship,  

 

So you think it is OK for you to comment and say what you like - BUT others are not allowed to do the same.

You must be a very special person mate. 

[black tabby12345]

The tax department chief wants to brag how well they are doing(Re: tax residents'  foreign income).

But the second paragraph below Google Ad is totally irreverent to that topic.

It is only about VAT levied on people's spending.

Does that NEWS come from the stupid bureaucrat or editor?

Or from both?

 

 

 

 

 

[Cabradelmar]

This is a monumental proposed shift. Seems a bridge too far (IMO). To be truly effective, all Thai tax forms (to deal just with the various countries tax credits alone), any guidance and instructions will need to rewritten, and in multiple languages. Not only that, all DTAs will need to be rewritten as they are changing (in its entirety) the system of taxation the old DTAs where based on. One thing is certain, this type of  change will require more capabilities and resources than the current TRD is capable of producing. Not only that, this law (if passed) will require a vote in the legislature. That takes time. And it's possible the Hi-So will fight it and there may even be legal challenges to such a sweeping change (because they, the Hi-So, too stand to lose a lot if this goes through). I doubt it will pass in 2024 (affective for the 2025 tax year), and even if they do get it through in 2025, it probably won't be affective until the following (2026) tax year. What a donkey roast 😂 😂 😂 

[chiang mai]

4 minutes ago, Surasak said:

That I think would depend on the hospital and or the doctor. I have had an operation in a government hospital and am pleased with the result. Admittedly I had a private room, which was in fact on a par with a private hospital as was the menu. Dont run down a service on hearsay, you may be glad of it one day?

The typical 30 baht scheme, outside of the major urban centers, involves junior (sometimes student) or local doctors with little experience, they are the first line of medical defense in many cases, especially in rural areas. Further up the hospital ladder and with the passage of time, unresolved cases end up with more experienced and better qualified doctors in District or Regional hospitals where medical progress is often made but most Westerners wont be willing to wait that long. The private hospital short cuts all of that by offering a more probable diagnosis, with better qualified doctors, right here and now, but at a cost. 

 

I've had first hand experience of the above on several occasion's, one where Dengue Fever was diagnosed as the flu and the patient given vitamin B shots for three days straight, On day 4 the patient was taken to a private hospital, diagnosed correctly and put on a drip within hours.

 

In a second case, this year, the District Hospital took seven hours to diagnose my wife as having the flu and the student doctor prescribed the usual symptom relievers. In parallel with that, I was diagnosed with covid in 45 minutes at the university hospital yet the student doctor treating my wife refused to accept she also had covid, even though we'd both been together in the same car for the previous fourteen hours!

 

I accept that the end result can be very similar in both 30 baht and private hospitals but the path to get to the end and the time it takes, varies massively.

 

 

 

 

 

[Mike Teavee]

3 hours ago, Unamerican said:

This all sounds highly unlikely!  HMRC in particular are very scrupulous about never asking me about my finances, so they know nothing like this.

Never use an accountant seems to be a good motto.

If you file a Tax Return then obviously HMRC know all about your income (excl. ISAs) as you have to declare it all, Plus you need to tell them where you live & how many days you spent in the UK (If you're non-Tax Resident). 

 

If you don't file a Tax Return then your Bank will withhold tax on the interest you earn, your estate agent will withhold tax on any rental income etc...  all of which gets reported to HMRC.

 

 

[Celsius]

17 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

yet some on here appear to almost relish the prospect of paying tax here,  can they really be so desperate to do so.  Did they have the same enthusiasm for paying tax in their home countries, ?  From what I have read on the various threads I think some of them actually did.    

 

Same people who enjoy supporting their prostitute family, but would not give 1 dollar to their own family.

[Bday Prang]

1 minute ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

ROFLOL   Your own words :-

 

 

There may well be some tax "experts" on this forum, but their expertise expired the day they left their home country. 

They should not be advising anybody to do anything  regarding taxation here,  one might as well take advice from a taxi driver 

 

I just noticed that this thread has now been designated as a  "must read"   personally I think nothing could be further from the truth.      Unless one considers scaremongering clickbait essential reading matter.  All these tax threads remind me of the various covid threads but without the censorship,  

 

So you think it is OK for you to comment and say what you like - BUT others are not allowed to do the same.

You must be a very special person mate. 

people can of course post what ever they want but they should not be advising anybody to do anything, and anybody acting on their advice needs their head examined. Where else do you take your guidance from, facebook and tik tok ?   

[agogohome]

If you're not registered to pay tax, and don't have a Thai tax number, you don't pay.  It's as simple as that. There's far too much scaremongering going on! Check back in ten years and absolutely nothing will have changed - they're not out to fleece elderly expats living here on foreign pensions - or those with Thai families. 

[NoDisplayName]

29 minutes ago, Lopburikid said:

The Thai revenue website says B150,000 un-taxable and 190,000 for over 56 is un-taxable income. Thai tax office say anything over 120,000 is taxable income. Again lying, cheating and stealing.

 

Different websites emphasizing different totals answering different questions going through an online translator.

 

Thai revenue is correct.  Up to 120K is in the 0% bracket, plus personal exemption of 30K, makes 150K.  Over 65 (or under 65 handicapped) gets an additional 190K exemption.

 

Tax office is correct.  The first 120K is taxed at 0%.  Anything above that is potentially taxable, depending on exemptions.

[Bday Prang]

5 minutes ago, Celsius said:

 

Same people who enjoy supporting their prostitute family, but would not give 1 dollar to their own family.

what is a "prostitute family"  as opposed to "their own family"  ?

[rocketboy2]

4 minutes ago, agogohome said:

If you're not registered to pay tax, and don't have a Thai tax number, you don't pay.  It's as simple as that. There's far too much scaremongering going on! Check back in ten years and absolutely nothing will have changed - they're not out to fleece elderly expats living here on foreign pensions - or those with Thai families. 

 

But we will get dragged along with it. end of. 

[Happy happy]

According to the latest Thaiger news briefing  9 September 2024  UK retirees coming to live (or living) in Thailand are NOT taxed and no doubt any new law will reflect UK retirees do not have to pay tax here.

 

 

"Does Thailand tax expats?

Thailand does not impose tax on your income earned in the UK if you live in Thailand. You remain liable for UK taxes as a British citizen. Since Thailand and the UK have a double taxation agreement, you will not pay tax in both places on the same income. If your income comes from sources within Thailand, that may attract local taxes."

 

 

 

Retiring in Thailand for British citizens | Thaiger (thethaiger.com)

Edited September 9 by Happy happy

[Bday Prang]

1 minute ago, rocketboy2 said:

 

But we will get dragged along with it. end of. 

Maybe we will and maybe we won't.   You don't know any better than anybody else , Only time will tell

[Bday Prang]

2 minutes ago, Happy happy said:

According to the latest Thaiger news briefing  9 September 2024  UK retirees coming to live (or living) in Thailand are NOT taxed and no doubt any new law will reflect UK retirees do not have to pay tax here.

 

 

"Does Thailand tax expats?

Thailand does not impose tax on your income earned in the UK if you live in Thailand. You remain liable for UK taxes as a British citizen. Since Thailand and the UK have a double taxation agreement, you will not pay tax in both places on the same income. If your income comes from sources within Thailand, that may attract local taxes."

 

 

 

Retiring in Thailand for British citizens | Thaiger (thethaiger.com)

Now you have gone and spoilt it for all the scaremongers and experts    (well done mate)   no doubt one of them will try to discredit you soon

[TroubleandGrumpy]

12 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

people can of course post what ever they want but they should not be advising anybody to do anything, and anybody acting on their advice needs their head examined. Where else do you take your guidance from, facebook and tik tok ?   

Google definition of a Troll - make a deliberately offensive or provocative online post with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them.

 

I shall not be responding to or reading any more of your insults to those participating in this forum.

 

[VBF]

6 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

Your UK Bank & HMRC share data with Thailand via CRS. 

 

E.g. Though my bank doesn't know I live in Thailand, HMRC does via my annual Tax Return so they share this data with Thailand & includes my name, date of birth, address & all income (outside of my ISAs).

 

As an aside, my accountant wrote to me last week asking for an up to date proof of address as I normally just email them my new address when I move so they don't have anything formal for my current address.  I don't know if this is a result of a push by HMRC or just them tightening up their processes.

I presume you told HMRC that you live in Thailand because you assumed it would be beneficial to you to show them that you're an expat?  Which I guess it was at the time!

 

Referring to your "aside": They are required by UK Gov to verify from time to time.

I live and pay tax in UK but this year, my tax adviser asked me for similar proof despite the fact that I've been a client for more than 30 years. Apparently the proof has some sort of "shelf life".

[TroubleandGrumpy]

13 minutes ago, agogohome said:

If you're not registered to pay tax, and don't have a Thai tax number, you don't pay.  It's as simple as that. There's far too much scaremongering going on! Check back in ten years and absolutely nothing will have changed - they're not out to fleece elderly expats living here on foreign pensions - or those with Thai families. 

I hope you are right - but what if you are wrong.

Would it not be wise to at least check things out, and keep your financial records - just in case ??

[chiang mai]

7 minutes ago, Happy happy said:

According to the latest Thaiger news briefing  9 September 2024  UK retirees coming to live (or living) in Thailand are NOT taxed and no doubt any new law will reflect UK retirees do not have to pay tax here.

 

 

"Does Thailand tax expats?

Thailand does not impose tax on your income earned in the UK if you live in Thailand. You remain liable for UK taxes as a British citizen. Since Thailand and the UK have a double taxation agreement, you will not pay tax in both places on the same income. If your income comes from sources within Thailand, that may attract local taxes."

 

 

 

Retiring in Thailand for British citizens | Thaiger (thethaiger.com)

What is written in that article is plain and simply incorrect/incomplete. The purpose of a DTA is to determine which country has primary taxation rights over tax residents income. If, using the example above, the income is taxed in the UK but the person is resident in Thailand, that is likely to result in Thailand taxing that income and the UK issuing a tax credit to offset the Thai tax. The net effect is that the income was not taxed twice but responsibility for collecting the tax was changed from the UK to Thailand.

[AndreasHG]

3 hours ago, Unamerican said:

Seems somewhat self-contradictory!! 

Thank you: it is contradictory.

Actually, it's my mistake.

I should have written: "This means that, if you are resident of Thailand, your pension and annuities are only taxed in Thailand. They are not taxable in Australia..."

 

[Presnock]

6 hours ago, CharlesHolzhauer said:

Such as? I am all ears.

I noticed you were interested it appears that you are interested in locations around the world with better treatment tax wise than here....if I am wrong, sorry but I also get notes from "Nomad Capitalist" and they provide a world map with all the different taxation schemes so you might google them and get on their mailing list as they keep folks informed on treatment wise and taxation wise for nomadic folks.  good luck