Its Happening - Law to Tax Overseas Income Now in Progress

[chiang mai]

1 hour ago, Danderman123 said:

It's unfortunate that a small number of posters here are already filing Thai tax returns, and are giving the impression that it's no big deal for Bob in the village to file a tax return next year.

 

Apparently, most of those who already file are accountants.

 

So we are having detailed discussions of arcane Thai tax law, while most Farangs who post here think that these new tax laws will never be enforced.

I don't know about your TRD office but mine is a breeze. I walk in and say I want to file a tax return. They take me by the hand, sit me down at a desk and the lady enters the information I gibe her at a terminal. Ten/fifteen  minutes later she prints out the receipt and the job is done. Write down the income information you need and do the calculation beforehand so that you know what the bottom should be and double check it with what she prints out. 

 

If for some bizarre reason she one day refused to do the above, go to a tax accountant and tell them the same thing, the cost up here is under 12k baht.

 

If Bob in the village can't do those things, he shouldn't be allowed outside his home country.

[Ben Zioner]

6 hours ago, ChasingTheSun said:

This will be the new choice for expats if the tax changes are enacted…
 

Pay 30% tax in Thailand:

- no permanent residency, and almost impossible to get citizenship

- no land ownership

- pay private healthcare

- pay private education 

- 90 day reporting with ever changing rules

- blackwater rivers

- hot and humid all year

 

VS
 

Pay 30% tax in Spain, Italy, or Portugal:

- permanent residency with possibility to get citizenship 

- land ownership

- good free public healthcare

- good free public education 

- NO 90 day reporting or ongoing threats to deny residency

- NO blackwater rivers

-  beautiful weather 9 months of the year

 

In Portugal a retiree pays only 10%

[Danderman123]

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

I don't know about your TRD office but mine is a breeze. I walk in and say I want to file a tax return. They take me by the hand, sit me down at a desk and the lady enters the information I gibe her at a terminal. Ten/fifteen  minutes later she prints out the receipt and the job is done. Write down the income information you need and do the calculation beforehand so that you know what the bottom should be and double check it with what she prints out. 

 

If for some bizarre reason she one day refused to do the above, go to a tax accountant and tell them the same thing, the cost up here is under 12k baht.

 

If Bob in the village can't do those things, he shouldn't be allowed outside his home country.

Because the lady at TRD knows all about DTAs, so she can calculate your tax liability accurately.

[Presnock]

10 hours ago, ernji said:

Re the CRS, not that I'm an expert, but it seems to me that it's linked to where you declare your tax residency on the bank accounts in your "home" countries, along with the country you declare yourself to be resident in with that tax authority. So pick a non participating country (eg Cambodia) and declare yourself to be resident there. That way Thailand should never receive the interchange of data.

sounds illegal to me...evading taxes owed though I am not a tax or legal expert.

[redwood1]

2 hours ago, chiang mai said:

I don't know about your TRD office but mine is a breeze. I walk in and say I want to file a tax return. They take me by the hand, sit me down at a desk and the lady enters the information I gibe her at a terminal. Ten/fifteen  minutes later she prints out the receipt and the job is done. Write down the income information you need and do the calculation beforehand so that you know what the bottom should be and double check it with what she prints out. 

 

If for some bizarre reason she one day refused to do the above, go to a tax accountant and tell them the same thing, the cost up here is under 12k baht.

 

If Bob in the village can't do those things, he shouldn't be allowed outside his home country.

 

Is it your job to try and get all the tax moaners and doubters on this forum to tighten up that stiff upper lip and get in the tax line?

 

Unfortunately plenty of us can see the whole tax thing is rotten to the core and were not buying it....Especially when they cant even tax their own people and even more so the mega wealthy ones..  

[chiang mai]

19 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

 

Is it your job to try and get all the tax moaners and doubters on this forum to tighten up that stiff upper lip and get in the tax line?

 

Unfortunately plenty of us can see the whole tax thing is rotten to the core and were not buying it....Especially when they cant even tax their own people and even more so the mega wealthy ones..  

Not really. But I do think there is a lot of unnecessary moaning and complaining going on about how bad it all is when for most people its a very simple matter. For whatever reason, you and two others seem to be the ones doing the most consistent moaning, for the longest time and you've probably scared more people before they've even had a chance to think about it properly themselves.

[chiang mai]

1 hour ago, Danderman123 said:

Because the lady at TRD knows all about DTAs, so she can calculate your tax liability accurately.

Most people's tax returns are very straight forward and don't need a DTA to be invoked. But the whinners and serial moaners would have everyone believe every tax return does. I'm pretty sure that village Bob doesn't need that, do you! If your personal wealth is such that you need to invoke a DTA, put your hand in your pocket and pay the 12k baht you need to pay a Thai Tax expert to file your return.

Edited September 10 by chiang mai

[nong38]

What is in it for the "New Tax Residents "who are not Thai nationals, what do we get for our taxes?

[Presnock]

Just now, nong38 said:

What is in it for the "New Tax Residents "who are not Thai nationals, what do we get for our taxes?

More paperwork!  extra copies!  another forest needed for more paper and extra storage facilities for all the paperwork!

[Derek B]

On 9/7/2024 at 9:12 PM, CharlieH said:

Courtesy of Revenue Dept.

 

The Thai Revenue Department is currently drafting legislation to tax the overseas income of individuals residing in Thailand.

 

According to Kulaya Tantitemit, the director-general of the department, this draft is aligned with the international principle of worldwide income under the residence rule.

 

This principle mandates that an individual's income, regardless of its origin, should be taxed by the country where the individual resides for a specific period.

 

To implement this, an amendment to Section 41 of the Revenue Code is required. The proposed amendment would require individuals residing in Thailand for 180 days or more to pay personal income tax on overseas income, even if that income is not brought into Thailand.

 

In the first 11 months of the 2024 fiscal year, the Revenue Department collected 1.963 trillion baht, surpassing its target by 0.4% or 8.44 billion baht.

 

This strong performance was attributed to government measures aimed at stimulating consumption, such as the easy e-Receipt program, which boosted the collection of value-added tax from domestic consumption. 

 

Ms. Kulaya anticipates that by the end of this fiscal year on September 30, the department will meet its target of 2.28 trillion baht.

 

For the fiscal year 2025, beginning on October 1, the Ministry of Finance has set a target for the department to collect 2.372 trillion baht.

 

Credit Bangkok Post.

 

2024-09-07

 

 

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"No tax without representation". Anyone up for a Thai Tea party?

[Derek B]

7 minutes ago, nong38 said:

What is in it for the "New Tax Residents "who are not Thai nationals, what do we get for our taxes?

Nothing..................

My local Thai community will loose the Thai Baht I am taxed directly. They will get nothing of my taxes invested locally. It will be a net loss locally. In fact it could hasten a total loss locally if I exit Thailand.

[Surasak]

18 hours ago, chiang mai said:

The typical 30 baht scheme, outside of the major urban centers, involves junior (sometimes student) or local doctors with little experience, they are the first line of medical defense in many cases, especially in rural areas. Further up the hospital ladder and with the passage of time, unresolved cases end up with more experienced and better qualified doctors in District or Regional hospitals where medical progress is often made but most Westerners wont be willing to wait that long. The private hospital short cuts all of that by offering a more probable diagnosis, with better qualified doctors, right here and now, but at a cost. 

 

I've had first hand experience of the above on several occasion's, one where Dengue Fever was diagnosed as the flu and the patient given vitamin B shots for three days straight, On day 4 the patient was taken to a private hospital, diagnosed correctly and put on a drip within hours.

 

In a second case, this year, the District Hospital took seven hours to diagnose my wife as having the flu and the student doctor prescribed the usual symptom relievers. In parallel with that, I was diagnosed with covid in 45 minutes at the university hospital yet the student doctor treating my wife refused to accept she also had covid, even though we'd both been together in the same car for the previous fourteen hours!

 

I accept that the end result can be very similar in both 30 baht and private hospitals but the path to get to the end and the time it takes, varies massively.

 

 

 

 

 

Read the first sentence of my post, in may enlighten you a tiny bit?

[Derek B]

On 9/7/2024 at 9:26 PM, CallumWK said:

Time to empty my Thai bank accounts

Done.

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, Surasak said:

Read the first sentence of my post, in may enlighten you a tiny bit?

No more than you reading the first line of mine will enlighten you!  We agree it depends on the hospital and doctor, the problem is that all my experiences with government hospitals, especially rural ones, have been very poor. But I'm happy for you that you got lucky and all worked out well. The point here is that people clamouring to join the 30 baht scheme don't understand the issues involved and instead see it as a solution to expensive health care every time, which it is not.

[Surasak]

17 hours ago, Andrew65 said:

If Donald told me that it was raining I'd have to have a look out of the window just to check that it was true!☺️

And what, may I ask are you implying? I wouldn't trust Donald Duck either, but I grew out of those silly flicks in my early teens 

[Lopburikid]

17 hours ago, rocketboy2 said:

 

That 12.500 personal allowance in the uk,  could be a big problem for us brits.

We do not know if Thailand will recognize that allowance or not.

 

They won't as if it is under 12,500 it is not taxable in the UK, The Thai threshold is £3,000 yearly allowance. Convert to Thai Bhat B150,000 no tax. B300,000 5% tax. B300,00- 600,000 10% tax as I understand it!

[chiang mai]

Just now, Lopburikid said:

They won't as if it is under 12,500 it is not taxable in the UK, The Thai threshold is £3,000 yearly allowance. Convert to Thai Bhat B150,000 no tax. B300,000 5% tax. B300,00- 600,000 10% tax as I understand it!

That's broadly correct. The UK Personal Allowance will be ignored and replaced by whatever allowance and deductions exist within the Thai system, these will vary from person to person based on age, marital status, etc etc.

[john donson]

On 9/7/2024 at 10:35 PM, Pouatchee said:

i dunno if this can work out, but i am offered a new job back home and i plan on sending money to my bank account here. i will only be visiting my better half 1-2 months a year... dont think they can tax me sending myself money here if i dont live here...

 

you have a picture of your wife... if you send her money, I will take care of her needs for the other 10 months, looooooooooooool

Edited September 10 by john donson

[CharlesHolzhauer]

42 minutes ago, nong38 said:

What is in it for the "New Tax Residents "who are not Thai nationals, what do we get for our taxes?

Ask not what Thailand can do for you — ask what you can do for Thailand - [plagiarized and suitably modified].

[4MyEgo]

On 9/8/2024 at 12:16 AM, Pouatchee said:

so now they will have access to our home records... big brother... reallyyyy. 

 

double taxation? these matters really need to be cleared up and imho double taxation is just plain wrong... hope tere will be provisions blocking this.

 

NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION!!!

 

The 2 banks I bank with in my home country have already sent me there amended policy stating that they will pass on my information to 3rd parties, i.e. government departments, affiliated groups etc, so much for privacy.

 

What I would really like to know is, ok, they have implemented the remittance tax, so we can't avoid that, i.e. you send money, remit/send it, you pay tax on it, however to me there is another meaning to me if I "bring it" i.e. cash into the country and cash that in at gold shops or get a Thai to exchange it at an exchange like Superrich, not a bad thought and yes, I know most will say, you are "supposed" to pay tax on anything you remit/send, and I agree, but "bring/carry" to me, is a little different.....LOL

 

Anyhow, the BIG question I have is, if, they pass this proposed worldwide tax, will they double dip, e.g. if I made $50k from investments and they wanted tax and I paid it, what happens if I then remit that amount to Thailand, would they double dip ?

 

The world through my eyes is becoming a sad place to live in.

 

Edited September 10 by 4MyEgo

[befree]

Talk about bite of the hand that feeds you  under the current Australian tax law as a retired person i pay no tax if i earn under $35000 but Under the new tax law Thailand i will have to pay tax to them and get nothing in return looks like it's 180 days a year on Thailand if they bring this in this law and maybe i might find somewhere better to retire while out of Thailand 

[Ben Zioner]

4 minutes ago, CharlesHolzhauer said:

Ask not what Thailand can do for you — ask what you can do for Thailand - [plagiarized and suitably modified].

Yeah, but the original said also something like "my fellow Americans". 

 

 

[Pouatchee]

1 minute ago, 4MyEgo said:

What I would really like to know is, ok, they have implemented the remittance tax, so we can't avoid that, unless you bring cash into the country

 

The world through my eyes is becoming a bad place to live.

 

i think you have to declare anything over $10k... that's about 320k bht now...

 

its not becoming a bad place to live if you are rich and corrupt... i am not rich... just corrupt a little...😜✌️

 

thailand aint what it used to be 20yrs ago... thats for sure

[4MyEgo]

4 minutes ago, befree said:

Talk about bite of the hand that feeds you  under the current Australian tax law as a retired person i pay no tax if i earn under $35000 but Under the new tax law Thailand i will have to pay tax to them and get nothing in return looks like it's 180 days a year on Thailand if they bring this in this law and maybe i might find somewhere better to retire while out of Thailand 

 

Just remember there are a number of deductions that will reduce your tax obligation if any.

 

Worst case scenario, maybe 1,000-1,500 baht per month, so just spend that amount less and let businesses suffer because of their governments choice, which will in turn mean less tax from businesses for them.

 

That, or if you can, reinstate your residency as an Australian, e.g. if you have family in Oz, a current Driver's license, Medicare card and ALWAYS remember, you had always intend on returning, also lodge tax returns, and use an Oz address.

[Lopburikid]

19 hours ago, Lopburikid said:

You know the bill hasn't been passed as yet, they say the earliest it may be passed is January 2025/

 

19 hours ago, Lopburikid said:

You know the bill hasn't been passed as yet, they say the earliest it may be passed is January 2025/

That's if they have a government in place by then, and the way it's going it looks like the present government or the creating of it won't last another month. Plus some are saying the taxation is too high.

[Pouatchee]

21 minutes ago, john donson said:

 

you have a picture of your wife... if you send her money, I will take care of her needs for the other 10 months, looooooooooooool

 

did you read? i will be sending money to myself... not her.

 

btw... cliche answer in bad taste... join the queue of those who popped such jokes so far...

[4MyEgo]

4 minutes ago, Pouatchee said:

 

i think you have to declare anything over $10k... that's about 320k bht now...

 

its not becoming a bad place to live if you are rich and corrupt... i am not rich... just corrupt a little...😜✌️

 

thailand aint what it used to be 20yrs ago... thats for sure

 

20K USA last time I Googled it.

 

I have the dosh and suppose you can call me corrupt, because I ain't giving them squat.

 

Agree Thailand was a better place 20 years ago, still cheap to live, but not if they are going to tax us.

[Cabradelmar]

12 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

There is almost no dependency between a DTA and the participating country's tax codes.  DTA's usually just settle which income streams are taxable by each signatory and the priority of each country's tax claims.  If the DTA does define restrictions on methods and level of taxation it is only on income streams originating in that country.  For example the Thai-Canada agreement restricts the percentage of taxation each country can apply on specific income streams originating in that country.

 

Bottom line is there will be no need to rewrite the DTA's.

Every countries DTA is uniquely crafted. You can't possibly know what they all say (other than Canada's, apparently). With the advent of 401k RMDs (replacing pensions), many DTA are already outdated. 

[Lopburikid]

28 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

That's broadly correct. The UK Personal Allowance will be ignored and replaced by whatever allowance and deductions exist within the Thai system, these will vary from person to person based on age, marital status, etc etc.

I have read that if you are over 65 the threshold is raised to 190,000. The think I can't get my head around is this B30,000. B60,000 allowance. In the UK are taxes are done by the employer or the taxman, most don't understand the tax system.

[chiang mai]

Just now, Lopburikid said:

I have read that if you are over 65 the threshold is raised to 190,000. The think I can't get my head around is this B30,000. B60,000 allowance. In the UK are taxes are done by the employer or the taxman, most don't understand the tax system.

There is a personal allowance of 60k for yourself plus 60k for your wife, if you file jointly.

 

There is a then a 190k deduction for being over age 65 years.

 

If you have an overseas pension that you bring into Thailand, there is up to 100k in deductions for that.

 

Finally, the first 150k is zero rated for tax. 

 

It's easily possible for an over aged 65 years pensioner to have deductions/allowances/zero rated of 550k.