Thai gov. to tax (remitted) income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Part II

[stat]

 

one of the better videos about the topic of taxes:

 

Gifts should be OK

 

Are ATM withdrawal taxable is an open question according to this gentleman (like I said all along). Maybe taxable.

[chiang mai]

2 hours ago, stat said:

 

one of the better videos about the topic of taxes:

 

Gifts should be OK

 

Are ATM withdrawal taxable is an open question according to this gentleman (like I said all along). Maybe taxable.

It shouldn't matter how the funds are delivered into Thailand. If the method of transport is hand carried cash, bank to bank transfers using TT's or electronic transfer via an ATM card, the end product is exactly the same, funds are remitted. There must be a case to say foreign credit card usage is different since that remits credit rather than cash but that could ultimately go either way.

[Ben Zioner]

2 hours ago, stat said:

 

one of the better videos about the topic of taxes:

 

Gifts should be OK

 

Are ATM withdrawal taxable is an open question according to this gentleman (like I said all along). Maybe taxable.

Believe this guy ?,,,

[ukrules]

4 hours ago, Lorry said:

If I were to remit several millions, I would remit them in a year I am not a tax resident and I would remit income I earned in a year I was not a tax resident.

It's just one more layer of protection, most probably completely unnecessary.

 

This is what I'm doing.

 

[chiang mai]

36 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

Believe this guy ?,,,

With an office conveniently located near nana plaza no less! 🙂

 

Different people have reported different things, some of the reports from his visit to the chiang mai expat club were less than stellar.

[topt]

1 hour ago, Ben Zioner said:

Believe this guy ?,,,

Some of it but he does not start off well -

just over 4 mins talks about 6 months and a day - did not hear any mention of 179 or 180 days

gets confused over LTR and LTV

18/19 minutes start of sales pitch to get a Thai Tin.........

 

Will listen to rest later as only got to 25 minutes.......

[Danderman123]

On 8/27/2024 at 1:09 PM, Phulublub said:

Not what I said. 

 

If you are a tax resident and get audited, it is up to you to show how/where/what monies you have reported have come from.  If you have reported a suspiciously low figure and cannot prove non-assessable income, you will be in trouble.

 

PH

Ever hear of the Revenue Department auditing a Farang?

 

Or are you suggesting that the RD is developing a Farang audit capability for next year?

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, Danderman123 said:

Ever hear of the Revenue Department auditing a Farang?

 

Or are you suggesting that the RD is developing a Farang audit capability for next year?

Have you ever heard of the Revenue Department auditing anyone? The point is, we would never hear about these things, even if they happened daily, which I'm certain they do because that's what Revenue and Audit functions do.

[Danderman123]

On 8/29/2024 at 6:28 AM, sometimewoodworker said:

I don’t agree that it is in anyway unclear.

 

The  answer question that you haven’t seen answered is blindingly obvious. If you are not tax resident in any year you have no tax to pay! How is that not clear!!!

I am leaving Thailand today for another long trip abroad. When I return on October 10, I will still have 50+ days I can remain in Thailand this year before I transform into a tax resident, out of 80 remaining days in 2024.

 

That means I will have to travel some 30 more days in 2024.

 

In 2025, I will monitor how, or if, RD enforces the new rules for the million Farang tax residents in Thailand. Perhaps they will do the same as for the thousands of Farang bar managers who live here and never pay taxes.

[Danderman123]

5 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Have you ever heard of the Revenue Department auditing anyone? The point is, we would never hear about these things, even if they happened daily, which I'm certain they do because that's what Revenue and Audit functions do.

If RD audited a Farang in Pattaya, that would be big news, for obvious reasons.

[chiang mai]

56 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

If RD audited a Farang in Pattaya, that would be big news, for obvious reasons.

Every bar stool hound in Soi Bukkhow is now going to boast about how they were called in for an audit but they told them to get stuffed, "I'm never going to pay tax here", and then stormed out after the officer backed down....not heard anything since, he said. "That's what you have to do lads, you mark my words", he said.

 

Meanwhile, back on planet earth, life continued as usual.

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, Danderman123 said:

Ever hear of the Revenue Department auditing a Farang?

It rather depends on your definition or understanding of “auditing” 

But yes, if you read through the numerous threads hear you will find at least 1 firsthand report.

Are there more? Probably.

Are they as draconian as is possible? Probably not.

Are there many more? Probably not.

[Yumthai]

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

Have you ever heard of the Revenue Department auditing anyone? The point is, we would never hear about these things, even if they happened daily, which I'm certain they do because that's what Revenue and Audit functions do.

Individual audits should happen but anecdotal compare to the number of tax residents, surely triggered by denunciation of suspicious and significant amounts of money movements. I've personally never heard about Thai or foreign resident being individually tax audited.

[chiang mai]

18 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

Individual audits should happen but anecdotal compare to the number of tax residents, surely triggered by denunciation of suspicious and significant amounts of money movements. I've personally never heard about Thai or foreign resident being individually tax audited.

In the US and UK, the number of investigations ranges between 1% and 2.5% of taxpayers, some being random but most based on information acquired. Have to say I've never known or met anyone who was ever audited in either country although I was investigated when I declared a prior mistake I had made. Most people are unlikely to want it known they've been audited since the vast majority result in extra tax being paid, along with some form of penalty.

[Danderman123]

29 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

In the US and UK, the number of investigations ranges between 1% and 2.5% of taxpayers, some being random but most based on information acquired. Have to say I've never known or met anyone who was ever audited in either country although I was investigated when I declared a prior mistake I had made. Most people are unlikely to want it known they've been audited since the vast majority result in extra tax being paid, along with some form of penalty.

I have been audited in the US. It was not a big deal.

[beammeup]

If next year I am tax resident and  I remitt enough savings to live on (greater than 60k+150K) but they are savings from before Jan 1 2024, so not assessable. Do I still need to do a tax return the next year?

[Lorry]

2 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Ever hear of the Revenue Department auditing a Farang?

 

@ballpointhas repeatedly reported about his audit.

Quite instructive.

One lesson: don't comingle funds. 

Another lesson: if your documents show everything clearly, easy to understand, they were not as malicious as in my home country and didn't twist the facts.

@Dogmatixtoo.

 

Both are not pensioners from Soi Buakhao, though.

[Lorry]

12 minutes ago, beammeup said:

If next year I am tax resident and  I remitt enough savings to live on (greater than 60k+150K) but they are savings from before Jan 1 2024, so not assessable. Do I still need to do a tax return the next year?

No.

In theory yes, in practice nobody wants you to file. 

Be sure you have good proof. It's good if the remitted funds come from an account that has no money incoming after 1/1/24.

[Danderman123]

15 minutes ago, Lorry said:

@ballpointhas repeatedly reported about his audit.

Quite instructive.

One lesson: don't comingle funds. 

Another lesson: if your documents show everything clearly, easy to understand, they were not as malicious as in my home country and didn't twist the facts.

@Dogmatixtoo.

 

Both are not pensioners from Soi Buakhao, though.

Given that audits are rare, and most people in the RD can't read English, the above is true, but ..... Maybe not useful in the Real World.

 

For example, let's say my bank statement shows some deposits in 2024, but I use FIFO for remittances to Thailand, so my remittances are from pre-2024 income. Nobody in the RD is going to understand that. 

 

My opinion is these new regulations are unworkable for all but millionaire Farangs, who are already filing tax returns.

[chiang mai]

38 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

I have been audited in the US. It was not a big deal.

There's always one. :))

[Lorry]

14 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

For example, let's say my bank statement shows some deposits in 2024, but I use FIFO for remittances to Thailand, so my remittances are from pre-2024 income. Nobody in the RD is going to understand that. 

Those who audited @ballpointunderstood this very well.

You are making a very common mistake: you vastly underestimate intelligence and education of the Thai middle class. 

Many farangs (don't know about you) do this because the only Thais they know are hookers and other lowlife. 

Another is the quintessential American mistake: people who can't orally communicate in English must be stupid.

 

Example: people say, the new tax rules aim at Thai middle class investing abroad. 

How many American middle class do invest abroad? Or would be able to do that? Could Americans read an Italian balance sheet and invest in Italian small caps? Would they dare to put money into a foreign bank account? How many Americans even dare to exchange their beloved dollars into another currency (except when on holidays)?

Thais are not more stupid or uneducated than Americans. 

[NoDisplayName]

45 minutes ago, Lorry said:

@ballpointhas repeatedly reported about his audit.

Quite instructive.

One lesson: don't comingle funds. 

Another lesson: if your documents show everything clearly, easy to understand, they were not as malicious as in my home country and didn't twist the facts.

@Dogmatixtoo.

 

Both are not pensioners from Soi Buakhao, though.

 

Why were they audited?

 

Did they transfer in 50 million baht equivalent, or were they also running a business here?

[Danderman123]

3 minutes ago, Lorry said:

Those who audited @ballpointunderstood this very well.

You are making a very common mistake: you vastly underestimate intelligence and education of the Thai middle class. 

Many farangs (don't know about you) do this because the only Thais they know are hookers and other lowlife. 

Another is the quintessential American mistake: people who can't orally communicate in English must be stupid.

 

Example: people say, the new tax rules aim at Thai middle class investing abroad. 

How many American middle class do invest abroad? Or would be able to do that? Could Americans read an Italian balance sheet and invest in Italian small caps? Would they dare to put money into a foreign bank account? How many Americans even dare to exchange their beloved dollars into another currency (except when on holidays)?

Thais are not more stupid or uneducated than Americans. 

And I can't fill out a Thai tax return.

 

I think you are making my point for me - that the new regulations are unworkable.

 

As an example, the Thai immigration system is functional, yet thousands overstay. When caught, penalties are levied.

 

This tax system isn't workable, but when someone is caught with unexplained funds, then the penalties will be levied. But huge numbers of people will commit the tax equivalent of overstaying.

[Lorry]

1 minute ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Why were they audited?

 

Did they transfer in 50 million baht equivalent, or were they also running a business here?

Read their posts.

IIRC one used to work here,  stopped paying taxes afterwards, they found it suspicious. 

The other one had a business. 

 

As I said, they are not pensioners from Soi Buakhao.

[chiang mai]

13 minutes ago, Lorry said:

Those who audited @ballpointunderstood this very well.

You are making a very common mistake: you vastly underestimate intelligence and education of the Thai middle class. 

Many farangs (don't know about you) do this because the only Thais they know are hookers and other lowlife. 

Another is the quintessential American mistake: people who can't orally communicate in English must be stupid.

 

Example: people say, the new tax rules aim at Thai middle class investing abroad. 

How many American middle class do invest abroad? Or would be able to do that? Could Americans read an Italian balance sheet and invest in Italian small caps? Would they dare to put money into a foreign bank account? How many Americans even dare to exchange their beloved dollars into another currency (except when on holidays)?

Thais are not more stupid or uneducated than Americans. 

Post of the year award candidate, best one I've read in ages.

[Lorry]

4 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

And I can't fill out a Thai tax return.

I thought the same.

But as long as you only remit simple things,  let's say savings from before 2024 or regular ss payments,  it's actually very easy. 

 

If your remittances come from more complicated sources (poster  stat comes to mind) or if Thailand introduces worldwide taxation - I would probably leave/ stay less than 180 days.

 

 

[chiang mai]

8 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

And I can't fill out a Thai tax return.

 

I think you are making my point for me - that the new regulations are unworkable.

 

As an example, the Thai immigration system is functional, yet thousands overstay. When caught, penalties are levied.

 

This tax system isn't workable, but when someone is caught with unexplained funds, then the penalties will be levied. But huge numbers of people will commit the tax equivalent of overstaying.

I disagree, the system is eminently workable, it's just that many foreigners don't understand such things.

 

The tax forms are available in English, as are the instructions, if you can fill out a tax form in your home country you can fill out one here. If you can't fill one out, you'll have to use a tax preparer, just like millions do in other countries.

 

 

[NoDisplayName]

8 minutes ago, Lorry said:

IIRC one used to work here,  stopped paying taxes afterwards, they found it suspicious. 

The other one had a business. 

 

Well, okay then!

 

Their anecdotal audits are irrelevant to the average retired foreigner.

 

We still have exactly zero retirees living on pensions or remitting 65K/month being audited.

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Well, okay then!

 

Their anecdotal audits are irrelevant to the average retired foreigner.

 

We still have exactly zero retirees living on pensions or remitting 65K/month being audited.

As if every pensioner on 65k  a month who has been audited, must report on AN!!!

[TroubleandGrumpy]

8 hours ago, stat said:

one of the better videos about the topic of taxes:

Gifts should be OK

Are ATM withdrawal taxable is an open question according to this gentleman (like I said all along). Maybe taxable.

This is a good video - but there are two things I noticed when watching it yesterday.

1.  He mentions remitting money - when he should have made the distinction between money and taxable income. Money in the form of savings and such, when it is remitted to Thailand is not taxable income.

2.  His opinions regarding what the DTAs mean are exactly that - his opinions.  But they are very viable and authoritative because of who he is and what he does.  My opinions are exactly the same as his regarding DTAs - most Govt pensions are taxable in that State - when means the State that is paying them - not Thailand.