Frozen in time: British expats losing out on pensions in Thailand

[bradiston]

1 minute ago, NoshowJones said:

I never knew about the UK stealing money from OAP's living in Thailand by not giving them their annual increases until after I had moved here.

So what is stupid about that?

You could have found it out before coming. Not stupid, just careless.

[NoshowJones]

8 hours ago, bradiston said:

Yes. Live in the Philippines. It's been said before a million times. These fools should have known about the freeze.

I didn't know. are you calling me a fool??

[Reddavy]

11 hours ago, webfact said:

Three British expats reveal their nightmare experiences of having their UK pension frozen, thanks to a government policy that leaves them with unadjusted savings, sparking widespread outrage.

 

David McConkey believed he was heading for paradise when he retired to Bangkok in May this year. After 40 gruelling years as an electronics buyer, the 72 year old Scot was ready to bask in the sun, sandy beaches, and exotic cuisine of his favourite city. But his dream retirement turned into a financial nightmare when he discovered his UK state pension had been frozen.

 

Despite decades of hard work and contributions, McConkey has been blindsided by a policy affecting 500,000 British expats. Unlike their counterparts in the UK, who enjoy annual increases through the triple lock system, expats like McConkey are left stranded with pensions stuck at their current rate.

 

“I fully paid my contributions to the last penny, but now I am being penalised. People who emigrate to countries like the US get the annual uplift, but Thailand isn’t included. Why?”

The triple lock guarantees UK pensioners an increase linked to inflation, wage growth, or 2.5%. Next April, this will mean an extra £460 (nearly 20,000 baht) a year for most. But expats like McConkey will miss out unless they live in a country with a reciprocal agreement with the UK.

It’s not just McConkey who is struggling. George Lewis, a 76 year old British citizen, moved to Thailand in 2004 but now lives hand to mouth.

 

“We don’t have heating bills but air conditioning is expensive, and fans just don’t cut it in 40-degree heat.”

 

Another retiree, 76 year old Guy Lindsay-Watson, echoes the sentiment.

 

“We are hardly coping.”

 

The End Frozen Pensions campaign warns that many pensioners, including ex-nurses, firefighters, and police officers, now live in poverty. Some are even forced to return to the UK, putting extra strain on the NHS and social care system, reported iNews UK.

 

“Government help is what we need, and we need it soon.”

 

by Puntid Tantivangphaisal 
Frozen in time: British expats losing out on pensions in Thailand. Photo courtesy of iNews UK
 

Source: The Thaiger 

-- 2024-10-02

 

 

It’s easy to get round just keep an English address Friend/relative  so you keep the yearly upgrade 🤷🏼

[Chivas]

2 minutes ago, sambum said:

 

"Its been like that since the 1950's in certain countries. Whether we think its right or wrong is immaterial"

 

Not at all - anything can be subject to change if the will is there! How many years did it take to persuade the country to give women the vote? How many years before abortion was legalised? How many yeras before homosexuality was legalised?

 

For christs sake you've moved the goalposts completely

 

Get back on topic the OP or the subjects of it are claiming they were "blindsided"

 

Bollacks....

[jayboy]

4 hours ago, simon43 said:

detached studio little house next to a mountain stream - 9,000 baht/month

 

Credible.There are some amazing rental bargains out there

 

4 hours ago, simon43 said:

car (old but reliable), 1,000 baht/month petrol

 

Really after taking registration, insurance, maintenance and petrol into account?

 

4 hours ago, simon43 said:

$1m medical insurance - 5,700 baht/month

 

Are there  conditions justifying that low price  - deductibles. excluded treatments etc? For context most of my friends in their 60's here pay about Bt 20,000 pm.

 

4 hours ago, simon43 said:

Food/drink - 5,000 baht/month

 

Obviously that can be done at a pinch but wouldn't suit most people

 

 

I'm not knocking frugal living; in fact I rather admire it.But isn't the lifestyle a bit stressful/

[nakhonandy]

7 hours ago, Henryford said:

 

NI (National Insurance) is just another word for tax. Has nothing to do with the "benefits" you might get.

Aa I said the state pension is not a benefit.

National Insurance has everything to do with how much you get. 35 years of full NI paid are needed for the full pension and 10 years or more to get anything.

[kwilco]

54 minutes ago, itsari said:

Yes indeed they are and when considering that many pensioners go to Australia to be with there children that have made Australia there home one can realise  how unjust it is.

 

I agree - it's not good - but I knew that 25 years ago.

[Wavel]

This is not true, only the interest is capped. Which all British expatriates were made aware of prior to registering to live in Thailand. Not good when the facts are twisted to make them sound more sensational. 

[Caldera]

That seems to make the news every few years, over and over again.

 

But it isn't news, every British pensioner deciding to reside in Thailand knows about this and needs to take it into account.

 

Personally, I think freezing the state pension of individuals who choose not to spend their money at home is well justified. That's ultimately a political decision and I don't see any change coming. 

[Maitdjai]

8 hours ago, milesinnz said:

UK government petty mindedness... but then, how can they make up for the money it costs to house and feed the illegal immigrants.... ?

Good question.

There might be some context to the Globalist-, and WEF-agenda.

These are the masters of the hypocrite "Leftists" in power.

These democracy "safeguards" get a kind of "brown envelopes" from there. 

Same, same (corruption), but different. At a higher level.

The water-carrying, ideological idiots are the fewer.

Useful at the moment, like the brainwashed voting sheep.

Later, "deplorable"?

 

[NoshowJones]

7 hours ago, newbee2022 said:

Same story every year. Always same complaints.

It's like riding a dead horse.

Nobody asks them to leave UK, which might the better option anyway to return into safety with a NHS, which will provide health care your unable to pay for in Thailand. These 3 people will end up in a GoFundMe call once. 

And...every country gets the government they deserve.

Name just one western country in the world who have a government which has no corruption and really does care for the working class.

"Sir" Starmer perhaps?? HA! HA! HA! HA1 HA!

[itsari]

1 minute ago, kwilco said:

I agree - it's not good - but I knew that 25 years ago.

That does not make the UK Government right in any way.

Oh , go to the Philippines they say. That does not help if you want to live with your children in Australia.

Totally unfair and unjust in my opinion 

[BritManToo]

4 hours ago, simon43 said:

- detached studio little house next to a mountain stream - 9,000 baht/month

- car (old but reliable), 1,000 baht/month petrol

- $1m medical insurance - 5,700 baht/month

- Food/drink - 5,000 baht/month

 

20,700 baht/month.  Obviously throw in extras like loo paper etc, but I'm still well-short of my (estimated) 35,000 baht UK state pension.

 

If the PI doesn't appeal, there are other warm climates where the UK pension is linked, such as Mauritius (where I lived for 6 months after Covid).  Nice place, nice beaches.

Almost the same for me .........

Detached 3 bed house in gated village 10kbht/month

Old pickup truck, tax and insurance 2kbht/year, first repair this year 1k65,diesel almost nothing as I mainly use my eMTB.

Medical nothing, I'm ok with death.

Food/drink 5kbht/month mostly bacon and sausages.

 

But then ..........

Wife and kid ........ Another 30kbht/month.

If only I were single!

 

And to keep on topic, when I moved here I didn't know about frozen pensions.

Mine isn't because I've never revealed I moved out of the UK.

I still use my old UK address, despite not living there for 15 years, and nobody has noticed.

[John Drake]

9 hours ago, theblether said:

Give it a rest. This has been the rule since the majority of pensioners were born. 

 

There is zero chance the UK is going to update 490,000 pensions for people in this position. Especially after means testing winter allowances. 

 

Just give it a rest. 

 

ps - I note an article quoting people in their fifties moaning about the pensions freeze. They don't even qualify for the pension for over a decade and they have started greeting already. Dear me. 

 

 

A similar topic seems to run just about every seven or eighth month in this forum. Tiresome.

[kwilco]

3 minutes ago, itsari said:

That does not make the UK Government right in any way.

Oh , go to the Philippines they say. That does not help if you want to live with your children in Australia.

Totally unfair and unjust in my opinion 

You clearly haven't read my post or even the OP.

[NoshowJones]

7 hours ago, jori123 said:

•          https://aseannow.com/topic/1318899-uk-frozen-pension-returning-to-uk-and-going-overseas-again-at-a-later-date/?do=getNewCommenton

Np risk ,no punishment ,nothing

•  

 

 

DWP can not touch your state pension. Read the website.

[itsari]

2 minutes ago, kwilco said:

You clearly haven't read my post or even the OP.

If you say so Kwilco

[brianburi]

1 hour ago, Mike Teavee said:

40 in my case (was contracted out for a few years). 
 

Thats assuming the rules don’t change between now & 2033 when  eligible to collect it. 

you only need 10 years of contributions for the new pension scheme,  clearly the pension will be a lot less than the full amount......

[brianburi]

6 minutes ago, NoshowJones said:

DWP can not touch your state pension. Read the website.

They can suspend it,  it informs you of that on the ''proof of life letters''

[BritScot]

9 hours ago, theblether said:

 

Better illegal immigrants that contribute  than sour faced pensioners that want to live abroad and slate the UK every day. 

 

Plenty of them. Just come home. 

Your obviously deranged and lacking in knowledge.  First illegal immigrants in the uk are not allowed to work so do not pay tax or contribute second, they get tax paid handouts like: free accommodation,  free medical/dental (prioritised before tax paying Brits), free money to spend as they wish, free phone, free, free, free more than British people. Infact the hotel barge they turned their noses up at could  have homed, greatful  homeless veterans.  

[NoshowJones]

6 hours ago, bradiston said:

And no rise! I read the whole thread. If you leave again, your pension reverts to the very first payment amount, ie pre frozen, with no increases.

 

And you have somewhere in the UK to stay for 6 months? Is the UK affordable? And the cost of the return flight? That alone will hardly be covered by any rise you'll see while back in the UK. Is it really worth it?

 

Return flight to Philippines about 6,000 THB. Ring the DWP. Tell them you've moved there. Pay pension into Wise account. YMMV and I would expect you to spend at least 6 months there...I'm not advising breaking any laws. It's only a suggestion which probably won't be useful to many. Like tax avoidance for the rich. It's not tax evasion. There's a huge difference.

I see your point, but you will have to keep changing your addresses every six months.

[BritScot]

While it is sad every British pensioner would have known this before they became expats. They should have taken steps to avoid this. The easiest step is to move back to the uk for 6 months! Job done!!! 

[BritManToo]

9 minutes ago, brianburi said:

They can suspend it,  it informs you of that on the ''proof of life letters''

Only if they believe you are dead.

Suspending your pension for any other reason would be gross misconduct (malfeasance?) and I don't believe anyone working for DWP would care enough to risk that.

 

I would also point out court action would bring much negative publicity to DWP along with expense far beyond any chance of recovery from the pensioner, and a chance of losing. I can't see them having much incentive to chase pensioners who omitted to change their address, I did even read that DWP has no current address for as many as 40% of state pensioners.

[NoshowJones]

7 hours ago, Andycoops said:

There are ways around it but that involves fraud, also the loopholes are being closed down in a recently announced purge on benefits fraud which includes pensions.

About 40% of UK state OAP's are not living at the same address they had when they applied for their state pensions. Does the DWP have enough staff to keep track of all that?

 

[brianburi]

1 minute ago, NoshowJones said:

About 40% of UK state OAP's are not living at the same address they had when they applied for their state pensions. Does the DWP have enough staff to keep track of all that?

 

They will under Herr Starmtrooper,  checking of individual benefit claimers bank accounts will get the green light......

[brianburi]

11 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Only if they believe you are dead.

Suspending your pension for any other reason would be gross misconduct (malfeasance?) and I don't believe anyone working for DWP would care enough to risk that.

 

I would also point out court action would bring much negative publicity to DWP along with expense far beyond any chance of recovery from the pensioner, and a chance of losing. I can't see them having much incentive to chase pensioners who omitted to change their address, I did even read that DWP has no current address for as many as 40% of state pensioners.

 Liebour don't give two hoots about negative publicity as many UK pensioners are about to find out.....

[Chongalulu]

1 hour ago, Formaleins said:

might be wrong but I think you can return to the UK and have your pension re-linked back to the normal system..... nothing to stop you leaving again.

You will receive an unfrozen pension during the time you are in the UK but it will revert to what you what you were paid before when you return. It is not reset at the current rate 

[chiang mai]

6 minutes ago, Chongalulu said:

You will receive an unfrozen pension during the time you are in the UK but it will revert to what you what you were paid before when you return. It is not reset at the current rate 

The poster was correct, you can return, become settled and then leave again and retain the increases. I did that in 2019, it took 3 months to be declared fully UK resident and I retained the uplift when I came back to Thailand some months later. I even notified DWP of my return and asked for my pension to be deposited into my Thai bank account, which they duly obliged.

 

EDIT TO ADD: copy of relevant letter from DWP (redacted)

 

I am responding to the email dated 1 April 2019 to which included the Rt. Hon Amber Rudd MP about your UK residency status.

I should explain that due to the Secretary of State’s wide ranging responsibilities, it is not always possible for her to respond to

every letter personally. In this instance I have been asked to reply.

 

I was sorry to read of your concerns and on receipt of your email I arrange for your UK residency status to be investigated.

 

I can confirm the International Group (IG) does not undertake Statutory Residence Tests (SRT). However, they did write to you

on 20 December 2018 asking some questions about your residential status in the UK and abroad, this was to establish whether

you are a habitually resident in the UK.

 

As you have spent a significant time abroad we needed to establish whether you are now habitually resident in the UK. I understand

that you returned to the UK on 1 July 2018, then left for an extended stay in Thailand on 6 November 2018 . As this was approximately

4 months after returning to the UK and because State Pension (SP) rates can be frozen, depending on the country of residence, IG required

information to establish whether your stay in Thailand was temporary and to confirm that your country of residence is the UK.  

 

Redacted

 

IG has accepted that you are habitually resident in the UK from 28 June 2018. Your SP is paid up to 27 March 2019 at £xxx per week,

Increasing to £xxx per week from 11 April 2019.

 

It may help if I explain that your country of habitual residence is not decided on the number of days spent in a particular country. IG considered your

individual circumstances, taking into account a number of factors such as:

 

• whether you retains a residence and continues to have financial commitments in the UK, when he goes abroad
• is your intention to return to the UK
• did purchase a return ticket
• do you own property abroad and have financial commitments in that country

 

There are other factors which IG will consider when making a habitual residence decision and each decision is based on that customer’s circumstances. 

 

I have asked IG to write to you to confirm they consider your country of residence to be the UK.       

 

In the meantime, should you have any further questions about this matter you can write to, Complaints Resolution Manager, The Pension Service 4,

Mail Handling Site A, Wolverhampton. WV98 1AG or by telephoning 0191 613 8158.

 

Once again thank you for your enquiry, I hope I have clarified the current position.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

(redacted)

Complaints and Correspondence Manager

 

 

[impulse]

41 minutes ago, Caldera said:

Personally, I think freezing the state pension of individuals who choose not to spend their money at home is well justified. That's ultimately a political decision and I don't see any change coming. 

 

I certainly understand the numbers, whether I agree with the policy or not.  A GBP sent to a UK resident probably circulates through the economy several times, with taxes and salaries being paid each time it changes hands.  A GBP sent to a resident of Thailand is lost to the UK economy.

 

Fortunately, I don't have to form an opinion, agree or disagree.  Sure sucks for someone who's been here for 10+ years, though.

 

[Chongalulu]

17 minutes ago, BritScot said:

While it is sad every British pensioner would have known this before they became expats. They should have taken steps to avoid this. The easiest step is to move back to the uk for 6 months! Job done!!! 

You will only get the unfrozen amount for the time you are in UK, when you return it reverts to the amount you were paid when frozen. Not reset. Even if you only go back to UK for month you will get the unfrozen amount for that period