Frozen in time: British expats losing out on pensions in Thailand

[impulse]

1 minute ago, chiang mai said:

The poster was correct, you can return, become settled and then leave again and retain the increases. I did that in 2019, it took 3 months to be declared fully UK resident and I retained the uplift when I came back to Thailand some months later. I even notified DWP of my return and asked for my pension to be deposited into my Thai bank account, which they duly obliged.

 

To me (as just a curious Yank) that would be the $64,000 question.

 

If your experience is true, seems like moving to the Phils (or even back home) for 6 months every 5 years or so would pay out...

 

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, impulse said:

 

To me (as just a curious Yank) that would be the $64,000 question.

 

If your experience is true, seems like moving to the Phils (or even back home) for 6 months every 5 years or so would pay out...

 

I did post the letter from DWP confirming this is true!

 

It is not a straight forward matter and I doubt that moving to PI will be effective. There are many things the DWP looks at when determining residency and each case is different, as the letter above states. 

[impulse]

Just now, chiang mai said:

I did post the letter from DWP confirming this is true!

 

It is not a straight forward matter and I doubt that moving to PI will be effective. There are many things the DWP looks at when determining residency and each case is different, as the letter above states. 

 

Out of curiosity, how much did that increase your monthly deposit?  (Apologies if you covered that 4 or 5 pages ago).

 

 

[Maitdjai]

3 minutes ago, Caldera said:

That seems to make the news every few years, over and over again.

 

But it isn't news, every British pensioner deciding to reside in Thailand knows about this and needs to take it into account.

 

Personally, I think freezing the state pension of individuals who choose not to spend their money at home is well justified. That's ultimately a political decision and I don't see any change coming. 

Unrighteousness pops up frequently. Even if it's not "new".

 

"New" is the coming change of taxing rules for foreign residents in Thailand (state revenue), and a lot of whining about it.

 

All the (obviously) so "well-off"

Ex-pats here, mocking their pension-dependent fellows, could also have considered any change of tax rules before.

 

Personally, I think the taxing of foreign residents is well justified.

😂

[chiang mai]

Just now, impulse said:

 

Out of curiosity, how much did that increase your monthly deposit?  (Apologies if you covered that 4 or 5 pages ago).

 

 

As I recall, around 20%. But it was my intention to become UK resident when I returned, my plane was to spend 6 months per year in both countries. It was Covid that interfered with this plan rather than any attempt to deceive.

[impulse]

1 minute ago, chiang mai said:

As I recall, around 20%. But it was my intention to become UK resident when I returned, my plane was to spend 6 months per year in both countries. It was Covid that interfered with this plan rather than any attempt to deceive.

 

Good info.  Thanks for the reply.

 

[proton]

41 minutes ago, NoshowJones said:

DWP can not touch your state pension. Read the website.

 

This appears to be wishfull thinking, I posted this earlier, a poster living in Thailand but not telling them got a penalty and had to pay the over payments back- regarding his state pension, not pension credit or any other benefits:

 

You have been overpaid State Retirement Pension amounting to £194.30 for the period 16 April 2016 to 26 May 2017.

The overpayment occurred because on 25 June 2015 you misrepresented the fact that the residential status of yourself, or one of your dependents within Great Britain or Northern Ireland had changed Social Security law allows us to recover this amount from you

Civil Penalty

Social Security law allows a financial penalty to be imposed if it is decided that you were overpaid benefit because you:

. negligently made incorrect statements regarding your claim without taking reasonable steps to correct them or

o failed to provide information or evidence about the claim without reasonable excuse or

",,':,

.promptly without reasonable excuse.

failed to report changes in circumstances regarding the claim

We have decided that a Civil Penalty of £50 is appropriate because you negligently made an incorrect statement negligently gave incorrect information in connection with your benefit claim/award without taking reasonable steps to correct the error, resulting in an overpayment of benefit to you. The amount of the penalty has been added to the balance of the overpayment above. Under Social Security law, you must pay this penalty in addition to paying back the overpayment.

The total amount of State Retirement Pension and Civil Penalty you have to repay is £244.30.

How to pay
lf you already have an outstanding balance with us this debt will be added to it. We will contact you if we need to review how much you are currently paying back.

Contacting Debt Management
Please call Debt management on 0800 916 0647 or for textphone users 0800 916 0651 from the UK or 0161 904 1233 from outside of the UK, even if you cannot pay the amount in full you can discuss mutually agreeable repayment terms. Advisors are available from 8.00am to 8.00pm Monday to Friday and 9.00am to 4.00pm on Saturday.

By deduction from benefit
lf you are receiving benefits and the amount you have been overpaid has not been repaid within one month of the date of this letter deductions from your benefit will be taken to repay this. There is no right of appeal against these deductions.

[BritManToo]

6 minutes ago, proton said:

 

This appears to be wishfull thinking, I posted this earlier, a poster living in Thailand but not telling them got a penalty and had to pay the over payments back- regarding his state pension, not pension credit or any other benefits:

 

You have been overpaid State Retirement Pension amounting to £194.30 for the period 16 April 2016 to 26 May 2017.

The overpayment occurred because on 25 June 2015 you misrepresented the fact that the residential status of yourself, or one of your dependents within Great Britain or Northern Ireland had changed Social Security law allows us to recover this amount from you

Civil Penalty

Social Security law allows a financial penalty to be imposed if it is decided that you were overpaid benefit because you:

. negligently made incorrect statements regarding your claim without taking reasonable steps to correct them or

o failed to provide information or evidence about the claim without reasonable excuse or

",,':,

.promptly without reasonable excuse.

failed to report changes in circumstances regarding the claim

We have decided that a Civil Penalty of £50 is appropriate because you negligently made an incorrect statement negligently gave incorrect information in connection with your benefit claim/award without taking reasonable steps to correct the error, resulting in an overpayment of benefit to you. The amount of the penalty has been added to the balance of the overpayment above. Under Social Security law, you must pay this penalty in addition to paying back the overpayment.

The total amount of State Retirement Pension and Civil Penalty you have to repay is £244.30.

How to pay
lf you already have an outstanding balance with us this debt will be added to it. We will contact you if we need to review how much you are currently paying back.

Contacting Debt Management
Please call Debt management on 0800 916 0647 or for textphone users 0800 916 0651 from the UK or 0161 904 1233 from outside of the UK, even if you cannot pay the amount in full you can discuss mutually agreeable repayment terms. Advisors are available from 8.00am to 8.00pm Monday to Friday and 9.00am to 4.00pm on Saturday.

By deduction from benefit
lf you are receiving benefits and the amount you have been overpaid has not been repaid within one month of the date of this letter deductions from your benefit will be taken to repay this. There is no right of appeal against these deductions.

Asking for payment and being able to take (or enforce) payment are not the same thing.

[connda]

2 hours ago, RocketDog said:

From starting my first job in 1974 I started saving for retirement. I assume that USA Social Security would never be there for me when I needed it. I was wrong about that and I'm getting  $2,800 a month from Social Security now but still I don't expect it to last.

I retired at 67 full retirement age , and immediately came to Thailand and have been here ever since. I know some expats who retired in their early fifties and are now worried about money. So they were having a good time here in Thailand for more than 12 years while I was still working. They made a decision and took their choice just like I did. I didn't want to worry about money during my entire retirement so the decision was easy for me.

 

I will say that I enjoyed my career quite a bit and was satisfied to wait until 67 as my earnings every year were going up. I guess if you hate your job that makes a difference.

 

So I'm very glad that I saved more than I could need for the next 15 years that I expect to live.

 

Anybody who depends on the State for their retirement is taking a big gamble IMO. When you take a gamble you must always be prepared to lose.

Same, so you make investment.  But honestly, I don't even trust that the financial system will go bust and those investments will be around in the long-run.  So...exactly.

[chiang mai]

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Asking for payment and being able to take (or enforce) payment are not the same thing.

You hope!

[KannikaP]

3 hours ago, gerrybpattaya said:

This new Labour governments first major financial decision was to cut pensions.

Really. Please explain, my pension is the same as it was three months ago.

[simon43]

1 hour ago, jayboy said:

 

Credible.There are some amazing rental bargains out there

 

 

Really after taking registration, insurance, maintenance and petrol into account?

 

 

Are there  conditions justifying that low price  - deductibles. excluded treatments etc? For context most of my friends in their 60's here pay about Bt 20,000 pm.

 

 

Obviously that can be done at a pinch but wouldn't suit most people

 

 

I'm not knocking frugal living; in fact I rather admire it.But isn't the lifestyle a bit stressful/

Off-topic, but briefly to clarify..

"..registration, insurance, maintenance and petrol into account?"

 

registration? insurance? Don't know about those things! I just drive to the shops.beach etc 🙂

 

For my medical insurance, I am somewhat healthy for my age, no statins etc, no high blood pressure etc, so my premium is low and has never risen since I have never claimed.  $500 deductible on a claim and only my prostate bph/utis excluded (prostate cancer is fully covered).

 

As for frugal living, I don't consider that I live a frugal life.  My rented home was built just a few months ago, so all modern and well-built. I have hearty home-cooked meals every day, swim in the mountain river outside my door every day, go to the beach a few times a week, enjoy my ham radio hobby, teach as a volunteer at the local Burmese school blah blah blah.  My stress levels are zilch, nada, non-existent 🙂

 

[AndreasHG]

10 hours ago, milesinnz said:

UK government petty mindedness... but then, how can they make up for the money it costs to house and feed the illegal immigrants.... ?

 

To be fair, this has been ongoing since long before the UK even knew there was an illegal immigrant issue.

 

But, hey, blame it on the boogeyman... ...it always works and absolves the UK voters from any responsibility.

There's nothing more quintessentially British, than feeling good about being righteous and polite, even while being screwed...

 

Edited 1 hour ago by AndreasHG

[NoshowJones]

5 hours ago, edwinchester said:

I planned my retirement in Thailand in 2003 and was fully aware of the frozen pensions issue. It's unfair but to move to a foreign country without understanding the financial implications is not a wise thing to do.

When I first came to live in Thailand, I knew about the 90 day reporting but all I had to do was travel about 200Ks to the border every 90 days, a nice peasant drive and day out. Compare that to now.

It just shows you how things can change, and usually for the worst, particularly in this Banana Republic of Thailand.

[AndreasHG]

2 minutes ago, NoshowJones said:

It just shows you how things can change, and usually for the worst, particularly in this Banana Republic of Thailand.

UK laws regulating pensions paid overseas have nothing to do with any banana republic, unless by banana republic you mean the UK itself.

[sambum]

3 hours ago, Hardcastle P said:

Wrong my friend if he lives in the Philippines it is not frozen .

 

What part of IS  do you not understand?

[hotandsticky]

15 minutes ago, AndreasHG said:

UK laws regulating pensions paid overseas have nothing to do with any banana republic, unless by banana republic you mean the UK itself.

 

 

Almost amusing................................but it wasn't.

[RocketDog]

27 minutes ago, connda said:

Same, so you make investment.  But honestly, I don't even trust that the financial system will go bust and those investments will be around in the long-run.  So...exactly.

I think you meant to say you don't trust that the financial systems won't go bust. In any case I think it's best to assume that to some extent or another they will, probably sooner rather than later.

 

Metals may not be considered an investment but they sure as hell represent insurance. At this point in my life I'm much more interested in retaining my assets than growing them.

 

As hard as I've tried I can come up with no more defensive strategy than to put most of my excess Capital into precious metals which are tangible, and if stored correctly, always available to you. Any middle man or institution between you and your assets represents a counterparty risk.

 

In Thailand it is especially easy to buy and sell precious metals anonymously and I'm thankful for that.

[Baht Simpson]

6 hours ago, JonnyF said:

I guess I just have a fundamental distrust of the British government. Look at what Labour were saying 2 years about the fuel allowance and school fees. A total reversal. I just don't trust them with my money.

8 years ago Angela Rayner, a Labour MP called the freezing of increases on overseas pensions cruel and unnecessary and vowed to pursue the matter.

 

Ms. Rayner is now Deputy Leader of the current Labour government and is in charge of  pensions and the matter has been quietly brushed under the carpet. The Tory government did exactly the same.  I expect nothing will change but they must be reminded that this is an injustice.

 

 

 

[Baht Simpson]

6 hours ago, JonnyF said:

 

Deleted. Double post.

 

 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by Baht Simpson

[sambum]

3 hours ago, Blueman1 said:

And End up in the " Nick " for Fraud & Deception when they catch you,And They WILL.....

Out of all the people I know that have retired to Thailand and not declared it to the UK Gov't (and that includes a couple of ex Gov't employees) only one couple have been "found out"/ were "grassed up", and they had to go back to the UK for a tribunal. They were told by the tribunal that they were liable to pay back all the increments they had received since retiring to Thailand - no mention of "jail time" - but when the "chair" of the tribunal found out that the man had served his country in the RAF for a few years, he said "Oh, really - that changes things" (Or words to that effect because I wasn't actually there), and all "charges" were dropped - but they didn't get any more increments!

[rocketboy2]

1 minute ago, Baht Simpson said:

8 years ago Angela Rayner, a Labour MP called the freezing of increases on overseas pensions cruel and unnecessary and vowed to pursue the matter.

 

Ms. Rayner is now Deputy Leader of the current Labour government and is in charge of  pensions and the matter has been quietly brushed under the carpet. The Tory government did exactly the same.  I expect nothing will change but they must be reminded that this is an injustice.

 

Most politicians are much the same including the Ginger Growler. 

[Keller54]

13 hours ago, webfact said:

Three British expats reveal their nightmare experiences of having their UK pension frozen, thanks to a government policy that leaves them with unadjusted savings, sparking widespread outrage.

 

David McConkey believed he was heading for paradise when he retired to Bangkok in May this year. After 40 gruelling years as an electronics buyer, the 72 year old Scot was ready to bask in the sun, sandy beaches, and exotic cuisine of his favourite city. But his dream retirement turned into a financial nightmare when he discovered his UK state pension had been frozen.

 

Despite decades of hard work and contributions, McConkey has been blindsided by a policy affecting 500,000 British expats. Unlike their counterparts in the UK, who enjoy annual increases through the triple lock system, expats like McConkey are left stranded with pensions stuck at their current rate.

 

“I fully paid my contributions to the last penny, but now I am being penalised. People who emigrate to countries like the US get the annual uplift, but Thailand isn’t included. Why?”

The triple lock guarantees UK pensioners an increase linked to inflation, wage growth, or 2.5%. Next April, this will mean an extra £460 (nearly 20,000 baht) a year for most. But expats like McConkey will miss out unless they live in a country with a reciprocal agreement with the UK.

 

It’s not just McConkey who is struggling. George Lewis, a 76 year old British citizen, moved to Thailand in 2004 but now lives hand to mouth.

 

“We don’t have heating bills but air conditioning is expensive, and fans just don’t cut it in 40-degree heat.”

 

Another retiree, 76 year old Guy Lindsay-Watson, echoes the sentiment.

 

“We are hardly coping.”

 

The End Frozen Pensions campaign warns that many pensioners, including ex-nurses, firefighters, and police officers, now live in poverty. Some are even forced to return to the UK, putting extra strain on the NHS and social care system, reported iNews UK.

 

“Government help is what we need, and we need it soon.”

 

by Puntid Tantivangphaisal 
Frozen in time: British expats losing out on pensions in Thailand. Photo courtesy of iNews UK
 

Source: The Thaiger 

-- 2024-10-02

 

 

Ffs!  Not this again!

Do your research before you come!

[Chris Daley]

We need more immigrants.  They pay their way unlike these expats.  Why should immigrant's taxes pay for your aircon?

[Keller54]

1 minute ago, Keller54 said:

Ffs!  Not this again!

Do your research before you come!

You’ve only yourselves to blame!

[theblether]

10 hours ago, chiang mai said:

Yet in Thailand there is a massive oversupply of doctors. Look at the web pages of the private hospitals where you can "Find Your Doctor". In Chiang Mai at least, each private hospital has at least 300 specialists available for consultation, it's almost become a game to see who can offer the highest number. The same names appear on each of the different hospital web sites and are repeated across the city, all trying to earn extra money. Meanwhile, those same people are working their normal jobs at government hospitals.

 

I've continuously pointed out to the NHS that there is a large well of nurses and doctors available in Thailand. It's not one of their preferred hiring locations and that's a mistake. 

[theblether]

1 hour ago, BritScot said:

Your obviously deranged and lacking in knowledge.  First illegal immigrants in the uk are not allowed to work so do not pay tax or contribute second, they get tax paid handouts like: free accommodation,  free medical/dental (prioritised before tax paying Brits), free money to spend as they wish, free phone, free, free, free more than British people. Infact the hotel barge they turned their noses up at could  have homed, greatful  homeless veterans.  

 

Are you new here? You're taking a hell of a risk calling me "deranged and lacking in knowledge." Let me tell you something - I know precisely ZERO economically inactive illegal immigrants. You can't move for food delivery/barber/vaping shop types. McDonalds are literally remodelling their shops to accommodate DEPARTMENTS WITHIN THEIR RESTAURANTS TO SERVE THESE PEOPLE. 

 

They are using ID's of landed immigrants, and sharing revenue bases. I see it every single day in life. 

 

So do me a favour, the next time you decide to address me remember one thing. I'm an experienced British businessman who deals with the immigrant community every single day in life. 

 

I will not take lessons from online halfwits, the Daily Mail pant-p*ssing brigade.

 

[chiang mai]

3 minutes ago, theblether said:

 

I've continuously pointed out to the NHS that there is a large well of nurses and doctors available in Thailand. It's not one of their preferred hiring locations and that's a mistake. 

It may be a standards issue plus I don't know if Thai doctors would be willing to requalify with all that entails.

 

A long standing bestie of several decades is from India where his wife qualified as a cancer surgeon. They moved to the UK where she spent two years requalifying for her role. Later, they moved to the US where once again she had to  requalify. She subsequently reached the top of her game at Johns Hopkin where she has remained until today.....but what a long haul, not something that many people would be willing to do I imagine.

[Pdavies99]

13 hours ago, webfact said:

Three British expats reveal their nightmare experiences of having their UK pension frozen, thanks to a government policy that leaves them with unadjusted savings, sparking widespread outrage.

 

David McConkey believed he was heading for paradise when he retired to Bangkok in May this year. After 40 gruelling years as an electronics buyer, the 72 year old Scot was ready to bask in the sun, sandy beaches, and exotic cuisine of his favourite city. But his dream retirement turned into a financial nightmare when he discovered his UK state pension had been frozen.

 

Despite decades of hard work and contributions, McConkey has been blindsided by a policy affecting 500,000 British expats. Unlike their counterparts in the UK, who enjoy annual increases through the triple lock system, expats like McConkey are left stranded with pensions stuck at their current rate.

 

“I fully paid my contributions to the last penny, but now I am being penalised. People who emigrate to countries like the US get the annual uplift, but Thailand isn’t included. Why?”

The triple lock guarantees UK pensioners an increase linked to inflation, wage growth, or 2.5%. Next April, this will mean an extra £460 (nearly 20,000 baht) a year for most. But expats like McConkey will miss out unless they live in a country with a reciprocal agreement with the UK.

 

It’s not just McConkey who is struggling. George Lewis, a 76 year old British citizen, moved to Thailand in 2004 but now lives hand to mouth.

 

“We don’t have heating bills but air conditioning is expensive, and fans just don’t cut it in 40-degree heat.”

 

Another retiree, 76 year old Guy Lindsay-Watson, echoes the sentiment.

 

“We are hardly coping.”

 

The End Frozen Pensions campaign warns that many pensioners, including ex-nurses, firefighters, and police officers, now live in poverty. Some are even forced to return to the UK, putting extra strain on the NHS and social care system, reported iNews UK.

 

“Government help is what we need, and we need it soon.”

 

by Puntid Tantivangphaisal 
Frozen in time: British expats losing out on pensions in Thailand. Photo courtesy of iNews UK
 

Source: The Thaiger 

-- 2024-10-02

 

13 hours ago, webfact said:

Three British expats reveal their nightmare experiences of having their UK pension frozen, thanks to a government policy that leaves them with unadjusted savings, sparking widespread outrage.

 

David McConkey believed he was heading for paradise when he retired to Bangkok in May this year. After 40 gruelling years as an electronics buyer, the 72 year old Scot was ready to bask in the sun, sandy beaches, and exotic cuisine of his favourite city. But his dream retirement turned into a financial nightmare when he discovered his UK state pension had been frozen.

 

Despite decades of hard work and contributions, McConkey has been blindsided by a policy affecting 500,000 British expats. Unlike their counterparts in the UK, who enjoy annual increases through the triple lock system, expats like McConkey are left stranded with pensions stuck at their current rate.

 

“I fully paid my contributions to the last penny, but now I am being penalised. People who emigrate to countries like the US get the annual uplift, but Thailand isn’t included. Why?”

The triple lock guarantees UK pensioners an increase linked to inflation, wage growth, or 2.5%. Next April, this will mean an extra £460 (nearly 20,000 baht) a year for most. But expats like McConkey will miss out unless they live in a country with a reciprocal agreement with the UK.

 

It’s not just McConkey who is struggling. George Lewis, a 76 year old British citizen, moved to Thailand in 2004 but now lives hand to mouth.

 

“We don’t have heating bills but air conditioning is expensive, and fans just don’t cut it in 40-degree heat.”

 

Another retiree, 76 year old Guy Lindsay-Watson, echoes the sentiment.

 

“We are hardly coping.”

 

The End Frozen Pensions campaign warns that many pensioners, including ex-nurses, firefighters, and police officers, now live in poverty. Some are even forced to return to the UK, putting extra strain on the NHS and social care system, reported iNews UK.

 

“Government help is what we need, and we need it soon.”

 

by Puntid Tantivangphaisal 
Frozen in time: British expats losing out on pensions in Thailand. Photo courtesy of iNews UK
 

Source: The Thaiger 

-- 2024-10-02

 

 

It's nothing new, this rule has been around 20+ years, it's wrong but everyone should really be aware of this before retiring to Thailand.

 

Of course Thailand are not interested, they just intend to apply income taxes regardless!

13 hours ago, webfact said:

 

 

 

[proton]

12 minutes ago, Chris Daley said:

We need more immigrants.  They pay their way unlike these expats.  Why should immigrant's taxes pay for your aircon?

 

Immigrants are a huge financial burden, less than 10% make a positive contribution and are costing the UK billions