Frozen in time: British expats losing out on pensions in Thailand

[proton]

1 hour ago, jori123 said:

Only if you inform,

 

Only if you inform, do not inform?  no nothing, no checking, unlike means tested benefits

 

Seems this is not the case, here is a letter posted on here some time ago from a poster who had a letter not only claiming over paid pension back but also a penalty fine They do not say how they found out he was in Thailand but when they do the pension is not just reset to the original amount, they want the over payment back, but it's claimed on here they cannot or do not.

 

 

Edited October 2 by proton

[Rolo89]

The current crop of pensioners will be seen as the lucky ones. Future generations are paying a far higher tax burden, the pension age is increasing and the state pension is pretty unaffordable so won't exist for many that are paying for others to have it.

 

If someone is stupid enough to move abroad without spending a few seconds to check how it affects them, then that's an idiot tax. Don't move to a country without reciprocal social security if you want the increase.

[Bday Prang]

12 minutes ago, baansgr said:

Why rasist???

For some poor souls there just isn't enough racism about these days , They feel the need to see it everywhere and mention it at every opportunity as part of their virtue signalling regime.  After all there is not much fun in being outraged alone.   Same goes for those with the anti Trump obsession 

[JonnyF]

Another reason I never bothered topping up my National Insurance when I left the UK and took every step possible to pay as little into the government pension scheme as I could. 

 

I would never trust the government to do the right thing by me. Better off with private investments where you can get to the money whenever you like, the goalposts aren't constantly moving to pay for government screwups on issues like illegal immigration, illegal wars etc.

 

I feel very sorry for people who paid in all their lives and then get stitched up. But in my opinion the writing has been on the wall for several years. The government simply doesn't care about old people who paid into the system all their lives. 

 

It's basically a Ponzi scheme. 

[Bobydog]

5 hours ago, G_Money said:

That is pretty f——- up. What difference does it make where they live if one is vetted and qualified.

 

 

I was getting ready to move to Thailand from Australia when I discovered that my pension would be taxed at 35% if I wasn't a resident living in Australia and did not own a residence here. My pension would be classified as unearned income.

[Gottfrid]

As sad as it is, and of course it´s not fair at all. This is nothing new, and hopefully most Brits are aware of the conditions before they move. Moving abroad is not for everyone. You must have a solid economy and not only live from monthly retirement. That is nothing specific to Brits, and it seems like people all over the world think they can relocate and retire in a foreign country. However, what is Brit specific, is that they have created an unfair system, that punishes certain individuals based on in what country they relocate. That´s just a scum government that do such things to their old people.

[impulse]

18 minutes ago, john donson said:

can always move back or move to ph

 

Question...  If one moves to the PH, are the increases backdated, or do you start out at the number you had when you left TH?

 

 

[chiang mai]

8 minutes ago, simon43 said:

I'm not yet on my UK pension (9 months to go).  But I have been 'testing' out whether I can have a modest and healthy life solely on a UK pension (actually not even that, 29 years).

 

Nice detached studio house, garden, own car, private medical insurance, healthy food etc.  It is costing me about 20,000 baht per month 🙂

Aren't you in Laos?

[simon43]

1 minute ago, impulse said:

 

Question...  If one moves to the PH, are the increases backdated, or do you start out at the number you had when you left TH?

 

 

If you move to the Philippines (or any other country with a social security agreement with the UK), then your pension will jump up to the current value paid out to UK pensioners and increase each year.

[simon43]

1 minute ago, chiang mai said:

Aren't you in Laos?

Not according to my avatar 🙂  I left Laos because of the burning season, gets worse every year.  I am in Khao Lak, nice salty and clean air, good for my lungs.

[impulse]

3 minutes ago, simon43 said:

6 minutes ago, impulse said:

Question...  If one moves to the PH, are the increases backdated, or do you start out at the number you had when you left TH?

If you move to the Philippines (or any other country with a social security agreement with the UK), then your pension will jump up to the current value paid out to UK pensioners and increase each year.

 

Good info.  Another hypothetical...  Would it stay at that higher rate if you moved back to TH after some time, or would it get knocked back?

 

Edited October 2 by impulse

[Bday Prang]

5 minutes ago, proton said:

 

Seems this is not the case, here is a letter posted on here some time ago from a poster who had a letter not only claiming over paid pension back but also a penalty fine

 

 

I don't think they are that switched on, especially now that 1000's of them are still "working" from home. There is of course the possibility that he was "grassed up"  perhaps by a jealous ex missis. If this is the only example of such a letter on this forum, then it is, in my opinion, evidence of how rarely this actually  happens.  Most people seem to grass themselves up , intentionally or otherwise.

Considering the number if UK pensioners living here and active on this forum it would be fair to expect many examples of people in the same situation , and that does not appear to be the case.

[KannikaP]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

But his dream retirement turned into a financial nightmare when he discovered his UK state pension had been frozen.

There have been no UK Pension rises since May, so he will not know how much he is not getting until April 2025.

Edited October 2 by KannikaP

[nong38]

I think the law regarding the frozen pensions came into force in 1955 when most people would never have thought of going abroad, going abroad was like the Channel Islands so at that time it seemed pretty harmless but every year since then, in February, the current GVT brings it to Parliament and it voted through to continue and that all political parties continue to not change the situation is disgusting how they have the gall to think it is ok beyond belief but they are the lawmakers and they think its fair.

I got stuck out here in covid times with no flights and they still considered it the thing to do to freeze my pension.

They are a law unto themselves and there is nothing we can do about it, unless Reform get in then maybe Nigel might do something, we can only hope.

[sammieuk1]

Government help is what we need, and we need it soon. 

 

Not from this blatantly anti pensioner two tier all the free gear Keir you won't 🤔

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

I'm just curious on how the gov. knows where each person in the country is staying. Why would you volunteer info on your whereabouts. I consider myself on an extended vacation. Nobody's business but mine. 

Many people go on a big boast all around them about how they are moving overseas. The others get dobbed in by family members and friends or former wives.

 

On the other hand I don't even tell my Brit kids where I live, certainly not my bank, GP, DWP, or any other government department. As far as they know I live in the UK.

 

Best not to let anyone know your name, address or business.

Edited October 2 by BritManToo

[simon43]

4 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Good info.  Another hypothetical...  Would it stay at that higher rate if you moved back to TH after some time, or would it get knocked back?

 

From what I understand, if you stay in the Philippines for more than 180 days, (with bank account, visa etc to demonstrate your residence in the country), then you can move back to Thailand after 180 days and you will continue to receive that increased pension.

 

Rinse and repeat every 180 days - but I imagine most cannot flit between Thailand and the Philippines every 180 days....

[proton]

3 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

I don't think they are that switched on, especially now that 1000's of them are still "working" from home. There is of course the possibility that he was "grassed up"  perhaps by a jealous ex missis. If this is the only example of such a letter on this forum, then it is, in my opinion, evidence of how rarely this actually  happens.  Most people seem to grass themselves up , intentionally or otherwise.

Considering the number if UK pensioners living here and active on this forum it would be fair to expect many examples of people in the same situation , and that does not appear to be the case.

 

But it's always claimed they cannot claim over payment back, but this is proof they do, even if a rare event and only if grassed up or letters to your UK address are returned. I wonder what will happen when people claiming they live in the UK renew their passports showing they live here full time? Things are getting more connected up as time goes on.

[Mike Teavee]

11 minutes ago, proton said:

 

Seems this is not the case, here is a letter posted on here some time ago from a poster who had a letter not only claiming over paid pension back but also a penalty fine They do not say how they found out he was in Thailand but when they do the pension is not just reset to the original amount, they want the over payment back, but it's claimed on here they cannot or do not.

 

 

 

As discussed earlier in the thread, they cannot garnish your State Pension to reclaim what's owed but they can use any other benefits you may have (E.g. I would expect a lot of Pensioners relying on State Pension alone would also receive Pension Credits which they can reduce to pay back the debt).

 

   

 

 

[proton]

1 minute ago, simon43 said:

From what I understand, if you stay in the Philippines for more than 180 days, (with bank account, visa etc to demonstrate your residence in the country), then you can move back to Thailand after 180 days and you will continue to receive that increased pension.

 

Rinse and repeat every 180 days - but I imagine most cannot flit between Thailand and the Philippines every 180 days....

 

In theory possible but what if they send the life certs out to the PI in the 6 months you are not there? pension will stop if they don't get them back

[Bday Prang]

So what are  the implications of this "social security bi lateral agreement" ( or lack of it)  for Thais or Filipinos living in the UK  ?     

[EVENKEEL]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

Many people go on a big boast all around them about how they are moving overseas.

 

On the other hand I don't even tell my Brit kids where I live, certainly not my bank, GP, DWP, or any other government department.

 

Best not to let anyone know your name, address or business.

My gov pensions get dumped into Thai bank monthly because the US gov doesn't care. But, my banking and investment firms have my US address, end of story.

 

If I was a UK citizen I'd do the same as you. Too many times guys get mouthy in their business dealings.

[impulse]

5 minutes ago, simon43 said:

From what I understand, if you stay in the Philippines for more than 180 days, (with bank account, visa etc to demonstrate your residence in the country), then you can move back to Thailand after 180 days and you will continue to receive that increased pension.

 

Rinse and repeat every 180 days - but I imagine most cannot flit between Thailand and the Philippines every 180 days....

 

I was thinking more like 5 years in TH, then 180 days in the PH to do the reset.  Then back to TH at the new and improved rate. 

 

And that's without doing anything dodgy like getting a visa and an apartment, but not living there...

 

Edited October 2 by impulse

[BritManToo]

4 minutes ago, proton said:

 

But it's always claimed they cannot claim over payment back, but this is proof they do, even if a rare event and only if grassed up or letters to your UK address are returned. I wonder what will happen when people claiming they live in the UK renew their passports showing they live here full time? Things are getting more connected up as time goes on.

Many older people are easily frightened by their government. The DWP threatens (although effectively powerless to act) and the easily frightened volunteer payment.

 

As for proof of life certificates, they don't send them to pensioners living in the UK.

Edited October 2 by BritManToo

[thailand49]

Prior to living in Thailand, I didn't have a clue to a Brit and still don't 🤔 This is one example as to why there isn't a Great any longer to Britain LOL?

 

I really feel sorry for them coming from an Democracy but yet they hand out and spend like a drunker sailor sure just like the U.S. force us to participate in a good program that our government has driven to the ground then when <deleted> hits the fan want us to do the cost savings good intentionl programs  run to ground  then they call us who put in told at the end this is what you get now called an  " Entitlement " .

 

The average guy losing out as government pit other citizen against each other sharing a small piece of the apple pie while those who are in government continue to benefit because politician use them for votes. Their claim to those benefits " we need to pay more so they don't go into the public service we have to compete with the talent "  As I learned from many Brits the word " Rubbish " 

politician taught about " Gobal economy/Freedom "  that is what is " rubbish "  while they live in comfort care more about illegal immigrants more than their own citizens pitting them against each other.  The allowance is a drop in the bucket to what is thrown away each day.  Talk is cheap by our political leaders none lead by example any longer! 

Edited October 2 by thailand49

[Mike Teavee]

12 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Another reason I never bothered topping up my National Insurance when I left the UK and took every step possible to pay as little into the government pension scheme as I could. 

 

I would never trust the government to do the right thing by me. Better off with private investments where you can get to the money whenever you like, the goalposts aren't constantly moving to pay for government screwups on issues like illegal immigration, illegal wars etc.

 

I feel very sorry for people who paid in all their lives and then get stitched up. But in my opinion the writing has been on the wall for several years. The government simply doesn't care about old people who paid into the system all their lives. 

 

It's basically a Ponzi scheme. 

Everybody's circumstances are different but I topped up my NI contributions at Class 2 rates (Working Overseas) & the "Payback" is something like 7 months, so assuming I live to 68 I'll be quids in - IIRC Payback at Class 3 rates is something like 7.5 years, still not a bad deal. 

[Lacessit]

17 minutes ago, Bobydog said:

I was getting ready to move to Thailand from Australia when I discovered that my pension would be taxed at 35% if I wasn't a resident living in Australia and did not own a residence here. My pension would be classified as unearned income.

I have been living in Thailand for over ten years. One of my Australian friends has lived here for the same time.

 

Neither of us has been taxed on our OAP in that time.

[simon43]

3 minutes ago, proton said:

 

In theory possible but what if they send the life certs out to the PI in the 6 months you are not there? pension will stop if they don't get them back

You would need a PI forwarding mailing address AND a friend in the PI who can post the form back with a PI stamp!  I imagine such people exist 🙂

 

As for me, I'll stay in Thailand after I retire, but I'll move to PI if exchange rates/inflation etc turn me into a pauper...

[khunpin]

Funny! 55555 😂 😂 🤣 

They're complaining on a high level. 🤦🏼‍♂️

I'm sure that their pension is higher than mine. And I NOT have any assets somewhere! 

 

My pension will not increase as well. 

Did I ever complain in public? 🤔 

Did I ever try to make it to the headlines? 🤔 

Did I ever try to attract attention? 🤔 

NO! NO! NO! 

Hopefully they can't make it here in Thailand! 

That would mean:

Three less. Bye bye ... 👋555ๆ

 

(Oh,by the way: I will NOT follow this topic. You can write your comments as it suits you. They'll not get through to me anyway.) 

[Mike Teavee]

13 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Question...  If one moves to the PH, are the increases backdated, or do you start out at the number you had when you left TH?

 

 

You start at the rate you would get if you lived in the UK so would have caught up on all the increases since your pension was frozen but you wouldn't get any backdated payments