Random RCBO Trip...What Next?

[carlyai]

The new 30mA RCBO trips.

But I'll try the "rel" function. 🙂

[Crossy]

Sounds like you definitely have an issue of an earth-leakage nature 😞 

 

Does it trip with the main breaker in the shed switched off? I'm assuming that this is a 2-pole breaker.

 

[carlyai]

  On 10/12/2024 at 4:25 AM, Crossy said:

Sounds like you definitely have an issue of an earth-leakage nature 😞 

 

Does it trip with the main breaker in the shed switched off? I'm assuming that this is a 2-pole breaker.

 

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No.  with all the breakers except the MCB double pole breaker removed from the garage CU and MCB on it trips. With the MCB off it doesn't trip.

[Crossy]

  On 10/12/2024 at 5:14 AM, carlyai said:

No.  with all the breakers except the MCB double pole breaker removed from the garage CU and MCB on it trips. With the MCB off it doesn't trip.

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I bet you have a N-E fault on your shed circuits.

 

Disconnect all the neutrals from the neutral bar, hopefully it then won't trip. Then put them back one by one until it does.

 

This kind of fault can be a nightmare to find so don't lose heart.

 

Of course, if you had an insulation-tester ...

[carlyai]

  On 10/12/2024 at 5:22 AM, Crossy said:

 

I bet you have a N-E fault on your shed circuits.

 

Disconnect all the neutrals from the neutral bar, hopefully it then won't trip. Then put them back one by one until it does.

 

This kind of fault can be a nightmare to find so don't lose heart.

 

Of course, if you had an insulation-tester ...

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Great thanks. 

I think I know where it could be coming from, my greenhouse. It's still a bit boggie there with 1 extension lead.

That Megger you suggested is only B1000 something, so will buy that if no luck today.

Probably the only person in Isaan with a megger. 🙂

[carlyai]

From the garage the power goes out to the big ON/OFF switch, then branched to lights behind the garage and to a CU on a pole then to another CU in the greenhouse.

Looks a bit of a mess but those ant tracks maybe a clue.

Tomorrow I think I'll start just disconnecting the wires to the ON/OFF switch first.

Thanks again. 🙂

[sometimewoodworker]

  On 10/12/2024 at 10:32 AM, carlyai said:

Looks a bit of a mess but those ant tracks maybe a clue.

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They are termite tubes not ant tracks.

 

  On 10/12/2024 at 5:32 AM, carlyai said:

Probably the only person in Isaan with a megger. 🙂

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I can refer you to a Thai electrician in Issan who has a couple along with more tests equipment than I have!!!

[carlyai]

  On 10/12/2024 at 2:27 PM, sometimewoodworker said:

They are termite tubes not ant tracks.

 

I can refer you to a Thai electrician in Issan who has a couple along with more tests equipment than I have!!!

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Ants to me are a general classifier for termites as well.

 

Yes I am sure there are many Thai electricians with Meggers. 

An 'off the cuff remark'.:)

[bluejets]

  On 10/12/2024 at 5:32 AM, carlyai said:

That Megger you suggested is only B1000 something, so will buy that if no luck today.

Probably the only person in Isaan with a megger. 🙂

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Won't be much of a megger for 1000 baht however, then all you need is someone that knows how to use it. (as per my previous answer)

[CallumWK]

I have been following this thread as I have a similar issue, but will start a thread of my own, rather than hijacking this one.

I want to start with replacing the RCBB for testing purposes.

My installation is ABB, and a 63A RCBB is about 2500 baht, which I think is a bit over the top just to test. What other cheaper and reliable brand I can use?

This is what I have

 

[carlyai]

I found it, unfortunately the neutral goes to the pool pump and chlorinator. 😞

Enough for today, beer time 🙂

More tomorrow.

[carlyai]

  On 10/13/2024 at 2:51 AM, CallumWK said:

I have been following this thread as I have a similar issue, but will start a thread of my own, rather than hijacking this one.

I want to start with replacing the RCBB for testing purposes.

My installation is ABB, and a 63A RCBB is about 2500 baht, which I think is a bit over the top just to test. What other cheaper and reliable brand I can use?

This is what I have

 

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You need to start a new thread as you suggested so people will see your problem. My threads go too long and your post will get missed. 🙂

[carlyai]

  On 10/12/2024 at 11:34 PM, carlyai said:

Ants to me are a general classifier for termites as well.

 

Yes I am sure there are many Thai electricians with Meggers. 

An 'off the cuff remark'.:)

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White ants, flying ants, all termites me thinks.

The expression 'that person is being white-anted by Bob' should be "that person is being termited by Bob". 

Yes but you are correct.

[sometimewoodworker]

  On 10/13/2024 at 6:43 AM, carlyai said:

White ants, flying ants, all termites me thinks.

The expression 'that person is being white-anted by Bob' should be "that person is being termited by Bob". 

Yes but you are correct.

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Though both ants and termites are social insects that live in colonies, both have flying forms, both can be found near or inside homes, if you have no need to differentiate that is enough.

 

But termites  are known for eating wood and other cellulose-based materials, while ants do not, ants will infest electrical outlets and switches, termites will not. So it is sometimes quite useful to distinguish between them. Ant powder in electrical boxes  is remarkably effective and provides protection fo years.

  Quote

 

CAN TERMITE TREATMENTS KILL ANTS?

Yes. The same kind of pesticide used to kill termites can sometimes kill other insects including ants. However, the treatment is not effective for the purpose of ant control since ants and termites have very different living arrangements, attack properties differently, and have different food sources.

 

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  Quote

Termites and ants belong to different orders of insects. Termites are in the order Isoptera, while ants are in the order Hymenoptera. This means that while they are both insects, they are not closely related

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.

 

as to the “that person is being white-anted by Bob” I suspect that you maybe from the southern island continent as I have never come across that phrase.

 

[carlyai]

Removed the power connections from the plug to the pool pump, chlorinator and pool lights. Fault still there, so it's in the power plug feed.

I've lots of plugs everywhere, so will start from the plug nearest the CU disconnect the wiring and see when the fault disappears.

 

[Crossy]

  On 10/14/2024 at 11:07 PM, carlyai said:

... so will start from the plug nearest the CU disconnect the wiring and see when the fault disappears.

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You should use the "half-split method".

 

Start your disconnection in the centre.

Then you know which half of the run has the fault.

Then go to the middle of that section and test.

Repeat until you find the fault.

[degrub]

  On 10/14/2024 at 11:41 PM, Crossy said:

 

You should use the "half-split method".

 

Start your disconnection in the centre.

Then you know which half of the run has the fault.

Then go to the middle of that section and test.

Repeat until you find the fault.

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If Riemann built it, he may never get there.

 

[carlyai]

  On 10/14/2024 at 11:41 PM, Crossy said:

 

You should use the "half-split method".

 

Start your disconnection in the centre.

Then you know which half of the run has the fault.

Then go to the middle of that section and test.

Repeat until you find the fault.

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As god would have it, I've filed the circuit....somewhere and not sure where the middle is. 

I have 3 rooms in the garage so should have installed 3 breakers in the CU which would have made tracing a fault easier.

This was the first time I've power wired up the whole building (as you can probably tell). 🙂

I see some egg shells in one of wifeys outside water fountain, so may do that first.

Good suggestion thanks. 😉

 

 

[carlyai]

One more go and I found the cct. 🙂

[Crossy]

  On 10/15/2024 at 1:24 AM, carlyai said:

One more go and I found the cct. 🙂

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Time for a beer!!!

 

[carlyai]

  On 10/15/2024 at 9:44 AM, Crossy said:

 

Time for a beer!!!

 

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I've got the leakage current down to 0, at the moment, need to buy a couple of plugs and a socket tomorrow.

Wish my beautiful wife would tell me when sockets are broken. 🙂

 

[Crossy]

  On 10/15/2024 at 10:12 AM, carlyai said:

Wish my beautiful wife would tell me when sockets are broken. 🙂

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Yup.

 

The "help" are very good at "finding something faulty" (ok, breaking it) and just putting it away for me to find when I need it.

 

Please, just tell me it's busted and I'll sort it!!!

[carlyai]

  On 10/15/2024 at 10:12 AM, carlyai said:

I've got the leakage current down to 0, at the moment, need to buy a couple of plugs and a socket tomorrow.

Wish my beautiful wife would tell me when sockets are broken. 🙂

 

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Seems the white thing I saw in a power outlet was not eggs but a busted off prong from an extension cable plug.

[carlyai]

[Crossy]

The "ant powder" is very good at discouraging the creepy-crawlies and it lasts pretty much forever.

 

I doubt you'll stop the really tiny ants (they seem to adore electric fields) from getting in even with foam in the conduit and outlet stoppers.

 

[carlyai]

  On 10/18/2024 at 9:12 AM, Crossy said:

The "ant powder" is very good at discouraging the creepy-crawlies and it lasts pretty much forever.

 

I doubt you'll stop the really tiny ants (they seem to adore electric fields) from getting in even with foam in the conduit and outlet stoppers.

 

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Yes difficult to stop, but those while plugs are hopeless (I think) as well, have a little neon or led in them with a thin wire between L & N and the critters like to build there.

[carlyai]

That's fixed it. 🙂

[degrub]

Nice 267 amp fuses you have there 😉

[Crossy]

  On 10/23/2024 at 12:36 AM, degrub said:

Nice 267 amp fuses you have there 😉

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At least there won't be any ants in there 🙂