How often do you take Tolerance Break. Is it even worth it Lol.

[w94005m]

My girlfriend has what seems to me to be an unusual situation with a piece of land purchased through a state government auction in Kalasin for 80,000B.

We checked the land out first at https://landsmaps.dol.go.th, which confirmed that it was as listed and an empty plot bordering a local road. I was a little surprised when we visited, that I could not find the official corner markers for the land, but put that down to them being covered in soil.

 

She was successful at the auction and then got it officially registered and the chanote in her name. This did take a few months, which I gather is not unusual.

However, when her parents went to look at the land, they were told that what was marked on the earlier mentioned website was incorrect and the chanote noted a different adjacent area with a house on it. It looked like a plot had been split and recorded accordingly with 2 different chanotes. The website was just wrong. The owner of the house on the land said they wouldn't move, although they also had a home on the land next to it.

My girlfriend and her family went to see a lawyer and he confirmed that the land had been registered correctly and my girlfriend was indeed the legally correct owner of the land. The auction had come about as the prior incumbent had put up that land as collateral for a car loan, which they had failed to repay. Hence, the auction via the province of Kalasin government. Initiated by the financing company, who had provided the loan. The lawyer said he could take the illegal occupant to court and force them to leave, but that would cost 30,000B in fees and expenses.

 

I felt that this would be a bad situation, being next door to an unhappy prior owner to say the least, but now it has gotten even more bizarre. It turns out this man is the headman of this village/town AND he is paid by the government, to use this land/house as the local district ombudsman. For which he probably gets a salary and rent for the office.

 

I feel the only option aside from swallowing the loss of 80,000B is to get this prior owner/headman to enter into an agreement to buy the land back. After all, he has built a house on it and his job needs that. He has claimed that he has no money and won't do anything. I feel the threat of legal action, which would mean the loss of house, potential loss of job, especially if it was chosen to press this with the local district should loosen his pocket. I am however, very nervous dealing with someone who clearly has influence and and appears to feel bulletproof.

 

I'm assuming that the only option is to give him a set period, say 6 - 12 months to pay an agreed sum, such that upon payment she would then be obligated to transfer ownership to him? If not satisfied, then pursue legal action.

 

She is emotionally vested in this land and does not want to lose the land for nothing.

[Cameroni]

15 minutes ago, w94005m said:

My girlfriend has what seems to me to be an unusual situation with a piece of land purchased through a state government auction in Kalasin for 80,000B.

We checked the land out first at https://landsmaps.dol.go.th, which confirmed that it was as listed and an empty plot bordering a local road. I was a little surprised when we visited, that I could not find the official corner markers for the land, but put that down to them being covered in soil.

 

She was successful at the auction and then got it officially registered and the chanote in her name. This did take a few months, which I gather is not unusual.

However, when her parents went to look at the land, they were told that what was marked on the earlier mentioned website was incorrect and the chanote noted a different adjacent area with a house on it. It looked like a plot had been split and recorded accordingly with 2 different chanotes. The website was just wrong. The owner of the house on the land said they wouldn't move, although they also had a home on the land next to it.

My girlfriend and her family went to see a lawyer and he confirmed that the land had been registered correctly and my girlfriend was indeed the legally correct owner of the land. The auction had come about as the prior incumbent had put up that land as collateral for a car loan, which they had failed to repay. Hence, the auction via the province of Kalasin government. Initiated by the financing company, who had provided the loan. The lawyer said he could take the illegal occupant to court and force them to leave, but that would cost 30,000B in fees and expenses.

 

I felt that this would be a bad situation, being next door to an unhappy prior owner to say the least, but now it has gotten even more bizarre. It turns out this man is the headman of this village/town AND he is paid by the government, to use this land/house as the local district ombudsman. For which he probably gets a salary and rent for the office.

 

I feel the only option aside from swallowing the loss of 80,000B is to get this prior owner/headman to enter into an agreement to buy the land back. After all, he has built a house on it and his job needs that. He has claimed that he has no money and won't do anything. I feel the threat of legal action, which would mean the loss of house, potential loss of job, especially if it was chosen to press this with the local district should loosen his pocket. I am however, very nervous dealing with someone who clearly has influence and and appears to feel bulletproof.

 

I'm assuming that the only option is to give him a set period, say 6 - 12 months to pay an agreed sum, such that upon payment she would then be obligated to transfer ownership to him? If not satisfied, then pursue legal action.

 

She is emotionally vested in this land and does not want to lose the land for nothing.

 

I agree with your proposed course of action in terms of pursuing legal action. However, I do not think he will play ball. If he has no money he has no money, and whether you give him 6 or 12 months it is unlikely he will pay. The only real option is to pursue an eviction and get him off the land. If you play nice with him, give him a long time to pay, this will be construed as weakness and he will drag things out and still not pay or leave. Only if a robust legal  document is presented would he change his mind to do something.

 

This is my belief.

Edited 13 hours ago by Cameroni

[degrub]

Who was responsible for the website listing ?

If the finance company, then maybe go after them for fraud if there is a statute that covers this case for the cost of the land and legal fees, etc.

 

Otherwise, chalk it up to experience and walk away.

 

Is there a squatters law that allows someone to take possession of a property after occupying it for a number of years ?

Given he is headman, eviction just sounds like an opportunity for revenge  by making things as difficult as possible if someone moves there.

Edited 13 hours ago by degrub

[w94005m]

35 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

I agree with your proposed course of action in terms of pursuing legal action. However, I do not think he will play ball. If he has no money he has no money, and whether you give him 6 or 12 months it is unlikely he will pay. The only real option is to pursue an eviction and get him off the land. If you play nice with him, give him a long time to pay, this will be construed as weakness and he will drag things out and still not pay or leave. Only if a robust legal  document is presented would he change his mind to do something.

 

This is my belief.

I agree, but the problem is that he owns the land next door and as headsman, doubtless everyone else there will support him.

 

Yes, there is a squatter's law in Thailand, which is very favourable to the squatter.

[w94005m]

38 minutes ago, degrub said:

Who was responsible for the website listing ?

If the finance company, then maybe go after them for fraud if there is a statute that covers this case for the cost of the land and legal fees, etc.

 

Otherwise, chalk it up to experience and walk away.

 

Is there a squatters law that allows someone to take possession of a property after occupying it for a number of years ?

Given he is headman, eviction just sounds like an opportunity for revenge  by making things as difficult as possible if someone moves there.

Official government website, so no opportunity there and sadly I agree that revenge would be almost guaranteed. Loss of face for a headsman would never sit.

[Cameroni]

5 minutes ago, w94005m said:

I agree, but the problem is that he owns the land next door and as headsman, doubtless everyone else there will support him.

 

Yes, there is a squatter's law in Thailand, which is very favourable to the squatter.

Yes, I understand it's not an optimal situation to have a disgruntled headsman next door. But you or the lady paid good money for this land. Lucky you paid a low price so the 30000 eviction cost is still tenable. 

 

How big is this land and what purpose did you have in mind? 

 

You could 

 

A) evict him and live with the disgruntled neighbour 

 

B) Evict him then sell the land

 

C) Try to work out a deal with him. If  you offer him 30000 to leave the land, maybe he would take it? 

 

Is there any other option? 

[w94005m]

4 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

Yes, I understand it's not an optimal situation to have a disgruntled headsman next door. But you or the lady paid good money for this land. Lucky you paid a low price so the 30000 eviction cost is still tenable. 

 

How big is this land and what purpose did you have in mind? 

 

You could 

 

A) evict him and live with the disgruntled neighbour 

 

B) Evict him then sell the land

 

C) Try to work out a deal with him. If  you offer him 30000 to leave the land, maybe he would take it? 

 

Is there any other option? 

A is not a consideration and that was part of the original thought of building a home there. as not too much soil was needed on what the government marked as the land. I would be fearful of having this person as a neighbor, so C is also not an option. A neighbour like that in a position of authority sounds like a nightmare to be avoided at all costs.

 

B I would be fearful of comeback from any purchaser.

 

I see the only option as getting some money from him. I don't believe that he has no money. A penniless headman with a separate home and land in a good location, doesn't add up. Losing the land when using it to make good money should mean something.

[newnative]

        my spouse and I know of several errors with land surveys.   One of our neighbors had his land plot remeasured and he found that the developer had erected his boundary wall about 50 cm wrong along the whole front of his property.  It made the road that much wider but he lost land that would have given him a little more space between his swimming pool and the wall.  50 cm might not seem like much but it can be when space is tight, and can be the difference between being able to navigate a space or not.  

       We also know of people having their land resurveyed by the government, only to find its either larger or smaller than on their documents.   No advice for the OP but anyone considering buying property with no visible land markers, and even those with markers, might consider having a new survey done before a purchase to verify what they are buying.  

[CanadaSam]

As degrub mentioned, I would ask the lawyer about going after the parties that actually sold you the land.

 

If that is possible, you obviously have a strong case buying a plot that is supposed to be vacant, but in actuality is occupied.

 

At the least, you would get a refund, if not additional damages for time and expenses.

 

 

Edited 4 hours ago by CanadaSam
Last para.

[w94005m]

2 hours ago, CanadaSam said:

As degrub mentioned, I would ask the lawyer about going after the parties that actually sold you the land.

 

If that is possible, you obviously have a strong case buying a plot that is supposed to be vacant, but in actuality is occupied.

 

At the least, you would get a refund, if not additional damages for time and expenses.

 

 

That would be a nice scenario, but it was an official government run auction, presumably allowed after going through the courts. 

We had automatically dismissed consideration of any plots with property. Only wanting empty land, but I find it hard to believe we could possibly have any success pursuing action against the government province. I will consult yet another lawyer about that, as you and degrub noted that. Thanks.

[IvorBiggun2]

The OP keeps mentioning 'Chanote'. The land will have a title but not 'Chanote'. Don't buy land unless you know what you are doing. 

[IvorBiggun2]

Quote

Under Thai law, squatters who occupied another person's land without permission can eventually claim ownership of the said land parcels if the land's rightful owner was not able to evict them in a certain period of time.

 

[Crossy]

Adding a different tack, would there be any mileage in leasing/renting the space occupied by the house/village office to the current occupant?

 

[w94005m]

2 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Adding a different tack, would there be any mileage in leasing/renting the space occupied by the house/village office to the current occupant?

 

That is a good suggestion. I doubt he will be amendable, but we will pursue.

[Yellowtail]

How old is the squatter? 

[w94005m]

1 hour ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

The OP keeps mentioning 'Chanote'. The land will have a title but not 'Chanote'. Don't buy land unless you know what you are doing. 

The land was bought officially via government and detailed as such, for which my girlfriend now has the chanote (nor soi 4), which is the official title of the land. What is your problem with the use of chanote? It correctly distinguishes it from other lesser forms of title for the land, which I feel was appropriate to note. The problem is that it was misrepresented by Kalasin province (local government). We are not talking about some private deal. 

 

And yes as noted earlier, we are fully aware of squatters law in Thailand which would apply after 10 years.

[w94005m]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

How old is the squatter? 

I believe he's in his 60's and in reasonable health