Sticky situation re co-dependency

[watthong]

I've been in a (gay) relationship for the last 5 years. I met J one year before covid hit at that time I was 65 and J 41. A few months into dating J lost his job and moved in with me so I became his provider aka sugar daddy. A few months later, early 2020 covid arrived. We moved to Ram2 near MEGA Bangna close to where J mom and brother lived (these 2 did not get along though living under one roof). We survived the 2 years of covid, started travelling a bit when things began to open up, then mom was diagnosed with colon cancer stage 4! The next 2 yrs were mainly J taking care of Mom. The brother sensed that J got a walking ATM in me so all the more he wouldn't bother himself too much about their mom condition.

 

J is intellectually okay, interested in Western Culture so we got something to talk about. Mentally he's fragile, Mom had always been his pillar of strength. She passed away this summer. J gradually falls apart. At the same time I also realize that my savings, the extra layer on top of my 800K for retirement extension, have been wiped out after 5 years of co-habitation and helping out with the old lady's sickness. We don't have an extravagant life style, my retirement is meager, but I had thought if I had a partner who is on the miser side we could make it a go, maintaining the layer of savings needed for me as a DIY health insurance.

 

Okay I'll try to finish my tale in this 3rd (or maybe 4th) paragraph here. As I was saying, J gradually falls apart without his mom. The only one relative, a female cousin, that cares to look into J family situation told me that maybe J wanted to follow her. I dig into research and came up with the probability that J also has AHDH-i (attention deficit without hyperactivity). Medicaly, he also got HP and diabetes, a big guy. All these ailments started rearing their ugly heads while his mental state is fraying. We started to argue a lot, then I realized that his thinking core is not straight, in other words, his logic doesn't make sense. And he blames everybody mostly me, but himself, for leading him to his present state.

 

The house where the brother now lives alone, belongs to a landlord who used to employ mom and was very caring toward her. They let the family live there, paying rent whenever anyone can. The cousin told me that the 2 brothers could stay there indefinitely and don't have to worry about paying rent, the landlords are stinking rich. The brother has let the house run down without any upkeep. I'm in the process of weaning J from his co-dependency on me, and also mine on him, starting to separate our lives. I still care about him and want to continue my support, but financially things are getting tight and I don't see any improvement on my budget. J looking for a job is no longer feasible given his deteriorating mental/physical state. Since the beginning of this month Nov, he's been taken to emergency twice and onehalf-week hospital stay. So my first step is getting J to go back to live in their house, we still see each other everyday, and I give him a daily allowance so that he could manage day by day living there with his brother. It is not easy, but we need to take baby steps. Going back and forth between two households should give J life some structure, IMO.

 

I'm seeking advice from anyone with experience on co-dependency and trying to get us out of the hole we've been digging ourselves in. Any concrete advice will be much appreciated. Thank you all in advance.

PS - Oh I forgot to add one crucial detail: I am also in the thinking process of going back to the States. Because staying here without extra money for self-insurance at age 70 is, you say it, very risky. When I told him this, this was like a bombshell to J, that' was probably the cause for the recent emergency break downs. Doc said that he got a near-stroke.

[Gandtee]

Gay or straight. It's the same. He has family although a bit iffy, but he would survive without you. But what about you? You're no spring chicken?  Who will pay for your medical costs and look after you if you succumb to illness? Bite the bullet and head back to the States if you think you will be better off. Just my opinion. 

Edited November 12 by Gandtee
added words

[CharlieH]

Not an easy situation, but sadly its been allowed to develop and seems to me like it was a "leech" relationship from the get go and if left wouldnt stop until you are sucked dry !

 

Get out, whilst you have something left to get out with.

 

Sounds harsh but at some point you need to put YOU first.

[BritManToo]

32 minutes ago, watthong said:

I'm seeking advice from anyone with experience on co-dependency and trying to get us out of the hole we've been digging ourselves in. Any concrete advice will be much appreciated. Thank you all in advance.

I moved with no warning and without telling her my new address.

Worked perfectly.

 

But I do wonder what financial help was required with the 'sick mom' as Thais are entitled to free treatment, and in my experience the free treatment is pretty good.

 

As a retired person, you need to put yourself first.

Edited November 12 by BritManToo

[G_Money]

“ Land of Smiles frowns frequently “. Confucius 

[watthong]

12 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

But I do wonder what financial help was required with the 'sick mom' as Thais are entitled to free treatment, and in my experience the free treatment is pretty good.

 

As a retired person, you need to put yourself first.

 

It was the "non-medical" necessities here and there  - outside the governement 30 bht treatment scheme, which I agree, was impressive. The last "gift" to mom was for cataract removal, a few months before her demise. The aunties,  a couple from abroad and one local, agreed to chip in for the surgery, but as mom "days" got near, they all stayed mum when presented with palms up. Only when I had to scrounge around for the 50k needed that I realized that I had hit bottom, literally, of my savings.

[JimTripper]

Well, if you're low on funds now and nobody is willing to contribute, you either cut now or go broke. Working in Thailand is not an option.

 

Easier said then done, but try just paying for yourself, or half the rent and bills. Your reason is you can't afford any more. If that's not acceptable, then leave without arguments or fighting. Or move out, get a place you can afford and the partner can come visit you.

 

*I'm not sure how you would relocate back to the USA at 70 without substantial savings or supportive family, that's another thread.

Edited November 12 by JimTripper

[watthong]

58 minutes ago, watthong said:

The only one relative, a female cousin, that cares to look into J family situation told me that maybe J wanted to follow her.

"her"= mom, not the cousin.

[Lacessit]

IMO it's daft to stay in such a relationship. The next step is drawing down on the 800K.

 

I give my GF a monthly allowance. It's her business what she does with it. In return, she takes care of me.

 

If she started wanting extra for a family member, it's goodbye.

[pgrahmm]

I don't see any "co" dependency here.....You are receiving nothing positive in return....

Go, start your own life while you still can, or they will bleed you into an early grave.....

[JimTripper]

25 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

IMO it's daft to stay in such a relationship. The next step is drawing down on the 800K.

 

I give my GF a monthly allowance. It's her business what she does with it. In return, she takes care of me.

 

If she started wanting extra for a family member, it's goodbye.

Most people who give money at all will keep giving. You have already lost half the battle by agreeing to an allowance over and above half of living expenses.

[Patong2021]

Sad story. Loneliness  all around.

[watthong]

1 hour ago, pgrahmm said:

I don't see any "co" dependency here.....You are receiving nothing positive in return....

Go, start your own life while you still can, or they will bleed you into an early grave.....

 

There were a few good years where J was a very docile and devoted companion. Then the cancer struck and we've been living in crisis mode since, even after mom was gone. I remember reading stories or movies where sometime after the death of a family member, the whole family would go through some sort of "re-structuring..."

[watthong]

2 hours ago, JimTripper said:

Or move out, get a place you can afford and the partner can come visit you.

*I'm not sure how you would relocate back to the USA at 70 without substantial savings or supportive family, that's another thread.

 

I'm currently staying at my place, J kinda semi=moved out and I encouraged him to fix up his own adobe which is the home that he can share with his brother. He'd come by and spend time with me half a day, we kinda baby sit each other like the arrangement between Woody Allen and Diane Keaton in "Annie Hall" before they totally broke apart...(That's what I meant about "co-dependency.")

 

[Re the thread that was mentioned, sounds like tailor-made for me. Shudders.]

Edited November 12 by watthong

[JimTripper]

12 minutes ago, watthong said:

 

There were a few good years where J was a very docile and devoted companion. Then the cancer struck and we've been living in crisis mode since, even after mom was gone. I remember reading stories or movies where sometime after the death of a family member, the whole family would go through some sort of "re-structuring..."

Absolutely, the roles learned since childhood all change around. People need to adapt to the new roles or they get mental problems like you describe with your partner.

 

Something similar happened in my own family when an extended relative passed away. Relatives who before were kind of irresponsible had to step in and be responsible, and others who were very self-sufficient had to draw limits on what they could do. You kind of become different people when that happens.

 

By being in the family home you tied to whatever family role you were playing there. When you move out into a seperate dwelling you grow in a way and do your own thing.

[watthong]

1 hour ago, Patong2021 said:

Sad story. Loneliness  all around.

 

Indeed. A lesson learned, however late at this stage. That whenever one has to make monumental choice, it behooves one to be careful, very careful, - as one's life would be altered accordingly. Self-awareness, the ability to stand aside and look at one self or one's life -  or lack thereof, ie blinders  could push one to make a good or a bad choice that one has to live with for a long long time...

 

I made a bad choice  in my career that sent me to Asia as economic migrant, then another bad choice in my relationship that would send me back there. I did not intend to go back, though I did want to come here. There had been many road signs telling me to take a different turn along that stretch of my career, just as there had been huge red flags telling me to bug off at the start of this relationship. But I kept my blinders on and forged straight ahead.

[connda]

4 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I moved with no warning and without telling her my new address.

Worked perfectly.

 

But I do wonder what financial help was required with the 'sick mom' as Thais are entitled to free treatment, and in my experience the free treatment is pretty good.

 

As a retired person, you need to put yourself first.

In any parasitic relationship, especially if you worry about physical harm to yourself from a younger, stronger partner, I'd agree with BritManToo.  Disappear, relocate, and never get back in touch.  There are probably another hundred million or so gay men out there who would like a partner who wishes to have a healthy relationship.  Just like those of us who get tangled in a unhealthy relationship with gals.  Bail - don't look back.  You owe your parasitic partner nothing.  Spring-Fall relationships CAN work but both sides need to want it and to work for the relationship for the benefit of both partners.  Look at Glenn Greenwald and his husband David Miranda.  It can work.  Best of luck!

[JimTripper]

2 minutes ago, connda said:

Bail - don't look back.  You owe your parasitic partner nothing.

Some people feel like they need closure or things verbally decided in order to move on...

 

but it's really because they can't let go. Not for the other person's benefit.

[watthong]

2 hours ago, JimTripper said:

Absolutely, the roles learned since childhood all change around. People need to adapt to the new roles or they get mental problems like you describe with your partner...

By being in the family home you tied to whatever family role you were playing there. When you move out into a seperate dwelling you grow in a way and do your own thing.

 

Talking about childhood - At some point, I think pretty early on, the relationship turned to a parent=child one. Not because there was a 3rd party, but because it started to get lop-sided where J was so inadequate functionally (can't do anything right - one of the huge red flags) that I decided that I better be a parent to him. For the better? No, it was for the worse, let's just say parenting is not my forte.). As much as he was his mama's boy, now he became my "papa's boy." (His own dad died a long time ago, seemed like mom was a single parent raising just him, his brother sent elsewhere, thus the animosity within the family.)

 

Cut to the chase, he just lost his mom and now has to confront the possibility of his dad (me) leaving him, that might have been the cause for his meltdown. Currently, having him move back to his "house" was the 1st baby step in the scheme of "move out into a seperate dwelling you grow in a way and do your own thing."

Edited November 12 by watthong

[Stevemercer]

Obviously you have been in the relationship a long time and, for better or worse, you are now like family. It''s easy to say you should cut your losses, but it is hard to give up or abandon your family. You can't help, but think you will doom everyone to a shortand sad life of misery.

 

I think you are doing the right thing in weaning your partner and yourself off co-dependency. You have also realised your financial limitations and have no choice,but to live within your means even if this means you can't financially help your family as much.

 

So you are doing the right thing, but where does this leave you? Where do you see yourself in 5 or 10 years time? Do you have supportive family in America? If yes, that is a real life-line. If you do break the co-dependency in Thailand is there anything left for you in this country?

 

Maybe you need a plan to extract yourself, and move to America, within a set timeframe. If 1 year or 2 years is reasonable, set this as your deadline when you will move.Try to set concrete goals and steps to reduce the co-dependency during this time. But set your mind to the fact that you will settle all your affairs in Thailand and move when the set timeframe is up (regardless of resolution of the co-dependency situation and the mental state of your ex-partner/son).

 

 

[watthong]

8 minutes ago, Stevemercer said:

Obviously you have been in the relationship a long time and, for better or worse, you are now like family. It''s easy to say you should cut your losses, but it is hard to give up or abandon your family. You can't help, but think you will doom everyone to a shortand sad life of misery.

 

I think you are doing the right thing in weaning your partner and yourself off co-dependency. You have also realised your financial limitations and have no choice,but to live within your means even if this means you can't financially help your family as much.

 

So you are doing the right thing, but where does this leave you? Where do you see yourself in 5 or 10 years time? Do you have supportive family in America? If yes, that is a real life-line. If you do break the co-dependency in Thailand is there anything left for you in this country?

 

Maybe you need a plan to extract yourself, and move to America, within a set timeframe. If 1 year or 2 years is reasonable, set this as your deadline when you will move.Try to set concrete goals and steps to reduce the co-dependency during this time. But set your mind to the fact that you will settle all your affairs in Thailand and move when the set timeframe is up (regardless of resolution of the co-dependency situation and the mental state of your ex-partner/son).

 

 

 

Your assessment is right on point. May I pm you for further discussion in a more private setting?

[watthong]

41 minutes ago, Stevemercer said:

Obviously you have been in the relationship a long time and, for better or worse, you are now like family. It''s easy to say you should cut your losses, but it is hard to give up or abandon your family. You can't help, but think you will doom everyone to a shortand sad life of misery.

 

I think you are doing the right thing in weaning your partner and yourself off co-dependency. You have also realised your financial limitations and have no choice,but to live within your means even if this means you can't financially help your family as much.

 

So you are doing the right thing, but where does this leave you? Where do you see yourself in 5 or 10 years time? Do you have supportive family in America? If yes, that is a real life-line. If you do break the co-dependency in Thailand is there anything left for you in this country?

 

Maybe you need a plan to extract yourself, and move to America, within a set timeframe. If 1 year or 2 years is reasonable, set this as your deadline when you will move.Try to set concrete goals and steps to reduce the co-dependency during this time. But set your mind to the fact that you will settle all your affairs in Thailand and move when the set timeframe is up (regardless of resolution of the co-dependency situation and the mental state of your ex-partner/son).

 

 

 

 - Your 1st paragraph is spot on! Yes, that's what makes me sleepless these days. Especially for J, he's barely holding it together. The house that he's supposed to be sharing with his brother feels alien to him, though he used to live there before we met...His brother has not upkept it much, or rather the opposite.

 

- My life-line in America is a couple of old friends (co worker, former roommate) who seem eager to help ("just move back and we'll do our best") . My preference is to stay in Thailand, but the health coverage is a must, which I don't have.

 

-Time frame for America  - 1 or 2 yrs are a long stretch for me. My health has been okay, but I don't know how long that will maintain and I'm living here sans health coverage, so any day is a day at risk. Also with that long extension, J might think "oh I don't really need to hurry (to get my acts together.)" I'm looking more like 6 mos, time to leave is when my retirement ext expires, May 2025.

 

Also looking back at the course of the relationship: 1st yr - dating, next 2 yrs- covid, next 2 yrs= mom cancer. So we don't really have time to breathe normal ie to really work out the dynamic of the relationship, until now when the financial reality sets in. As the saying goes, we're building the plane as we're flying it.

[JimTripper]

15 hours ago, watthong said:

 

Talking about childhood - At some point, I think pretty early on, the relationship turned to a parent=child one. Not because there was a 3rd party, but because it started to get lop-sided where J was so inadequate functionally (can't do anything right - one of the huge red flags) that I decided that I better be a parent to him. For the better? No, it was for the worse, let's just say parenting is not my forte.). As much as he was his mama's boy, now he became my "papa's boy." (His own dad died a long time ago, seemed like mom was a single parent raising just him, his brother sent elsewhere, thus the animosity within the family.)

 

Cut to the chase, he just lost his mom and now has to confront the possibility of his dad (me) leaving him, that might have been the cause for his meltdown. Currently, having him move back to his "house" was the 1st baby step in the scheme of "move out into a seperate dwelling you grow in a way and do your own thing."

We probably need to talk about your father...

 

Your partner may be acting in ways that elicit a fatherly response from you. That can include financial support as well as emotional. His current distress could be a way of asking for increased support. If true, it sounds like an unhealthy relationship requiring professional therapy.

 

You can look to your father for answers. You become your father whether you want to or not. Try to see him in you and how you are playing out his problem in your current relationship.

[watthong]

29 minutes ago, JimTripper said:

We probably need to talk about your father...

 

Your partner may be acting in ways that elicit a fatherly response from you. That can include financial support as well as emotional. His current distress could be a way of asking for increased support. If true, it sounds like an unhealthy relationship requiring professional therapy.

 

You can look to your father for answers. You become your father whether you want to or not. Try to see him in you and how you are playing out his problem in your current relationship.

 

Every single sentence of yours rings true:

-"We probably need to talk about your father..." Checked!

Or my childhood rather. Ok let's go personal a bit into my background (only child, bastard born out of wedlock, raised/abused by childless, clingy *** co-dependency BIG TIME*** step-mother.) 

 -"Your partner may be acting in ways that elicit a fatherly response from you." Checked!

My pattern in relationship is of that being a savior. So I'm characteristicaaly drawn toward the "damsel in distress type." With J I hit the jackpot so to speak.

- "That can include financial support as well as emotional. His current distress could be a way of asking for increased support." Checked!

Absolutely, every day when we meet he complaints that he doesn't have enough money for everything, food, otc medicine. Now that he lives separate life, he goes back to eating out in his soi or 7/11, which is not the kind of diet his doctor has ordered. With me at least he could have something healthy.

Bottom line is we both needed "professional therapy". Long before we ever met.
 

Edited November 13 by watthong

[john donson]

better alone than with a toxic person...  easier said then done, specially here in TH

[SportRider]

Is it Co-dependency or just plain Dependency? 

[watthong]

4 minutes ago, SportRider said:

Is it Co-dependency or just plain Dependency? 

 

I'm getting old and he is/was my constant companion. So I'd say it's the former.

These days I have to adjust to doing everything solo. F. ex  just hauled a bucket of laundry downstairs for a wash. With J he could do the whole load more than one bucket in one trip. Mundane things like that.

[JimTripper]

A good rule of thumb is to simply do what makes you happy. Ultimately, you don't owe anybody anything.

 

Pretend you are a Buddhist monk and just go do your thing and run towards what puts you at peace and happiness at the present moment. 🙏 That could be anything at all, even taking off to a mountain cave without explanation qualifies.

[TimBKK]

Threads like this are too few and far between on AN - I appreciate OP’s willingness to share and sympathize with his situation.  Some good advice here as well.  

[ignore it]

Bail out.

Go somewhere to get your head straight.

Reboot.

 

 Look on the bright side.

 

The AN curmudgeons are here to support you.