The Decline of Free Speech: How the UK Became a Third-Class Nation

[Dionigi]

1 hour ago, James105 said:

 

Thailand has never pretended to have freedom of speech though so its kind of baked into what we expect when we move here.  The UK though was one of the first countries (if not the first) to give citizens a version of freedom of speech (or at least started the process towards free speech) in the Magna Carter over 800 years ago in 1215.  To lose it and go backwards after all this time is really quite shameful.  

perhaps you could point me to the section of the magna carta which relates in any way to freedom of speech as I am unable to locate it

[richard_smith237]

4 hours ago, mikeymike100 said:

Sterling article and very true. The UK is now worse than China and getting as bad as North Korea as far as free speech is concerned!

 

One example: Quoted by Konstantin Kisin

 

In Russia last year 400 people were arrested for things they had said on Social Media.

In the UK last year 3300 people were arrested for things they had said on Social Media.

 

Obviously, there is a degree of responsibility and accountability for what is said, however - when some of the examples are given, we can see how the freedoms have been chipped away with draconian and Orwellian levels of over-reaction.

 

 

 

 

 

[Snackbar]

Orwellian 

 

Good honest people f’d over

[Baht Simpson]

The Telegraph is spreading disinformation. By her own admission Kathleen Stock wasn't "forced to resign" and was not asked to tender her resignation. She resigned of her own volition because she felt her colleagues didn't support her views in her book, which they believed contained "harmfull rhetoric" towards transgender individuals.  

 

 

[candide]

12 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

One example: Quoted by Konstantin Kisin

 

In Russia last year 400 people were arrested for things they had said on Social Media.

In the UK last year 3300 people were arrested for things they had said on Social Media.

 

Obviously, there is a degree of responsibility and accountability for what is said, however - when some of the examples are given, we can see how the freedoms have been chipped away with draconian and Orwellian levels of over-reaction.

 

 

 

 

 

Do you have a reliable source for the numbers you cited, or is just from the usual crappy tweets and vids? 😃

[Baht Simpson]

16 minutes ago, Dionigi said:

perhaps you could point me to the section of the magna carta which relates in any way to freedom of speech as I am unable to locate it

Lol, yeah. English Kings were lopping the heads off anyone who spoke against them for hundreds of years after Magna Carta was signed. 

[candide]

5 hours ago, Andycoops said:

Another reason to continue living in Thailand.

Woke this and that everywhere.

At least Thailand is not woke!

Oh wait! 🤣

[James105]

21 minutes ago, Dionigi said:

perhaps you could point me to the section of the magna carta which relates in any way to freedom of speech as I am unable to locate it

 

I can do one better and repeat what I said.  I'll bold the bit that you had trouble reading to make it easier for you. 

 

The UK though was one of the first countries (if not the first) to give citizens a version of freedom of speech (or at least started the process towards free speech) in the Magna Carter over 800 years ago in 1215.

[richard_smith237]

5 hours ago, MalcolmB said:

No it is not.

 

Gee some people carry on with nonsense.

 

i can say what I want.

 

No... because you do say what you want a lot of the time. It does not mean you can say anything you want on a public platform - there are limits.

 

You still colour within the lines, and as much as many of us may disagree with your content.. its still your freedom to write what you wish (within reason).

 

One of the reasons I haven't blocked you, even though I disagree with so much of your content is that its still a different perspective - I don't want to live within an echo-chamber of people who only agree - different perspectives are healthy (even yours !!!).

 

But the developing limitations towards the 'freedom of speech' in the UK is taking on measures I would start to consider frightening, an abuse of power of an Orwellian nature .

 

The 'Free Palestine' Movement has been able to shut down central London numerous times... 

The 20% Farmers Inheritance tax were permitted 2 Tractors into central London to protest..

 

'One lot' do nothing to threaten the power dynamics in Westminster.

The 'other log' have the potential to bring down the government with enough support.

 

I'm frightened for my farmer friends who may post online.... Instead we are seeing a 'narrative' on shows such as LBC - James O'Brien...    telling farmers just 'sell a bit of your land to pay tax'...   and arguing that 'Farmers travelled to London in 1st Class'... (of course they did - non-premium time tickets: £30 regular (no seat guaranteed) - £45 First Class (food and drink included !!) - No brainer... That doesn't mean they are rich - it means they were capable of planning... 

.... But, argue against that and they are shot down by woke 'soundbites' which the government love... 

Start posting facts... and they get 'visited' by the Police...

 

... No... while it seems paranoid to suggest it - the UK is losing its freedom of speech..  Part of that is for wholly valid reasons...   to cut out hate speech, religiously motivated speech and to cut out the spread of false naratives - but that last one is a major issue -  who decides what a false narative is ?

....think Covid Vaccines / Global Warming etc - Facebook shuts down posts from people I know are posting facts... but the facts they have do not fit the government agreed narative...

 

... I'm not a renegade - I just like to be able to read the facts and decide myself. 

But equally so... I dont want to read stuff that is so obviously fake and designed to mislead us.

 

 

 

 

[simon43]

5 hours ago, MalcolmB said:

No it is not.

 

Gee some people carry on with nonsense.

 

i can say what I want.

But you can't say what you want!

 

If I say to a fat person in Thailand "Sawasdee krap, you're a bit fat", they will probably laugh and say "yes, too many Krispie Kremes lol" etc.

 

If I say the same phrase to someone in the UK, then I'll be investigated as uttering a hate crime..... I believe it's the same if someone is bald!

 

 

 

 

[Red Forever]

3 hours ago, James105 said:

 

No, you cannot say what you want if you are in the UK.   Lucy Connolly mistakenly thought she had free speech in the UK and is currently serving a 31 month jail sentence for saying what she wanted to on facebook.  

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp3wkzgpjxvo

Is she the person who incited the low IQ far right rioters to set fire to the accommodation of terrified humans?

[candide]

1 hour ago, James105 said:

 

Let's look at the evidence before dismissing this out of hand.  

 

In China you can be jailed for social media posts but it depends on how big the reach is.   The example in this article someone with 2.5 million followers was jailed for 7 months under their defamation laws (something about criticizing the government.

 

https://www.fairplanet.org/story/china-where-a-post-can-land-you-in-prison/

 

In the UK Lucy Connolly was jailed for 31 months for a social media post.  On that basis I think it is reasonable to say that it is worse in the UK than China, but not probably not as bad as North Korea.  

Complete B.S. Go to China, open a wechat account, and start sending messages including the word democracy or Winnie the Pooh! 🤣

[Red Forever]

3 hours ago, James105 said:

 

No, you cannot say what you want if you are in the UK.   Lucy Connolly mistakenly thought she had free speech in the UK and is currently serving a 31 month jail sentence for saying what she wanted to on facebook.  

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp3wkzgpjxvo

Is she the person who incited the low IQ far right rioters to set fire to the accommodation of terrified humans who had brown faces.

Here. I'll practice my access to free speech by saying that (if she is that awful woman) she got what she deserved!

[mikeymike100]

2 hours ago, siftasam said:

Thomas Jefferson was a major slaveholder, of course.

I never knew he lived in the UK?

[richard_smith237]

8 minutes ago, candide said:

Do you have a reliable source for the numbers you cited, or is just from the usual crappy tweets and vids? 😃

 

I understand your need for solid sources - but I wonder how far you go in rejecting information that does not fit your narative... 

 

Konstantin Kisin is a recognised public speaker - he could get into trouble for presenting information which is factually incorrect in such a public manner. As could Oxford University where he spoke. 

 

I don't believe the control of public comments is higher in the UK than Russia...  I believe there are other metrics involved to make these claims truly factual from the perspective of  'hard line unequivocal statistics' 

 

However - the examples given in the video (if true) are outrageous... Additonally, I don't believe the Video would highlight that 1500 arrests were made of people posting instructions on how to make bomb etc..  (not a true stat)

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

11 minutes ago, simon43 said:

But you can't say what you want!

 

If I say to a fat person in Thailand "Sawasdee krap, you're a bit fat", they will probably laugh and say "yes, too many Krispie Kremes lol" etc.

 

If I say the same phrase to someone in the UK, then I'll be investigated as uttering a hate crime..... I believe it's the same if someone is bald!

 

Not quite... 

 

IF you write on social medial in Thailand.... "Sawasdee krap, you're a bit fat" - you may get charged with defamation.

IF you write on social medial in the UK... "Hi, you're a bit fat" - you may get charged for a hate crime.

 

In both circumstances, it would be a wasteful use of resources to arrest you. However, in both circumstances, you know you are a nasty piece of work if you say something like that publicly.

[Red Forever]

3 hours ago, James105 said:

 

No, you cannot say what you want if you are in the UK.   Lucy Connolly mistakenly thought she had free speech in the UK and is currently serving a 31 month jail sentence for saying what she wanted to on facebook.  

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp3wkzgpjxvo

Is she the person who incited the low IQ far right rioters to set fire to the accommodation of terrified humans who had brown faces.

Here. I'll practice my access to free speech by saying that (if she is that awful woman) she got what she deserved!

[Red Forever]

3 hours ago, James105 said:

 

No, you cannot say what you want if you are in the UK.   Lucy Connolly mistakenly thought she had free speech in the UK and is currently serving a 31 month jail sentence for saying what she wanted to on facebook.  

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp3wkzgpjxvo

Is she the person who incited the low IQ far right rioters to set fire to the accommodation of terrified humans who had brown faces.

Here. I'll practice my access to free speech by saying that (if she is that awful woman) she got what she deserved!

[NanLaew]

3 hours ago, James105 said:

 

Nope, you have lost that too hence why we are still mostly in the dark about Southport.  

 

What are you having difficulty with regards Southport?

 

3 hours ago, James105 said:

 

No, you cannot say what you want if you are in the UK.   Lucy Connolly mistakenly thought she had free speech in the UK and is currently serving a 31 month jail sentence for saying what she wanted to on facebook.  

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp3wkzgpjxvo

 

Calling on people to set fire to occupied buildings isn't a good look no matter the race of the caller or that of the building occupants.

[NanLaew]

 

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

You see, this is exactly the problem, people cannot say whatever they want, they need to think first and consider the audience, context, environment, implications and a whole host of other factors.  

 

Yes. And don't forget to "think first and consider the audience, context, environment, implications and a whole host of other factors" before you shout at police dogs as well.

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, jayboy said:

 

Perhaps you didn't notice the writer is a Labour MP.

 

Tory shill. There's more than a few of them.

 

 

[candide]

23 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I understand your need for solid sources - but I wonder how far you go in rejecting information that does not fit your narative... 

 

Konstantin Kisin is a recognised public speaker - he could get into trouble for presenting information which is factually incorrect in such a public manner. As could Oxford University where he spoke. 

 

I don't believe the control of public comments is higher in the UK than Russia...  I believe there are other metrics involved to make these claims truly factual from the perspective of  'hard line unequivocal statistics' 

 

However - the examples given in the video (if true) are outrageous... Additonally, I don't believe the Video would highlight that 1500 arrests were made of people posting instructions on how to make bomb etc..  (not a true stat)

 

 

 

 

 

Where do these numbers come from? Arrested or charged? Which year?

 

If you had a minimum of critical mind, it would have taken 2mn to find this with Google.

https://pa.media/blogs/fact-check/russia-has-far-more-restrictions-on-social-media-use-than-the-uk/

 

Oh and for posters making the lame claim that UK is worst than China or Russia, Here's the map from the ranking organisation cited in the OP.

https://www.globalexpressionreport.org/

 

[NanLaew]

If the poor little Englanders feel that they are being stalked by Stasi-like government enforcers that are jumping on their every online utterance, they should hastily come to Thailand where they can post their endless streams of verbal diarrhea and nonsense about their homeland on anonymous inernet forums until the cows come home.

Edited 1 hour ago by NanLaew

[jayboy]

46 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

As could Oxford University where he spoke. 

 

 

No it couldn't - ridiculous suggestion.In any event the Oxford Union is a private members club and is not part of the university.Furthermore every shade of opinion has been expressed there for over 200 years and this has never been sanctioned, even when members declared before the Second World War they would not fight for King and Country.Many of those who took that position shortly therafter died in the air and on the battlegrounds and beaches.

[quake]

The uk. ( new Islam)

Nothing to see any more , move along.

Turn the lights off and grab your coat, 

on the way out.

But maybe a possible turn around come 2029. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 11 minutes ago by quake

[connda]

 The Decline of Free Speech: How the UK Became a Third-Class Nation

 

"Third-Class Nation" is inaccurate.  More accurate is an "Orwellian Totalitarian State." 
There seems to be a massive push in Western countries to embrace totalitarian restrictions on speech, as well as dissent.  It bodes not well for the West.  It's the same thing that the West accuses all the countries they have declared to be "enemies" of engaging in, like China.  I expect it in China, I don't expect it in countries that claim to be "Liberal Democracies."  Nowadays "Liberal Democracy" equals "Totalitarianism" and even Classic Fascism.  Welcome to 1984 on the Thames.

The Democrats and Far-Left Progressives were trying to take the US down that path, but just ran into a wall emblazoned with MAGA, Trump, and the US Constitution and Bill or Rights, and POTUS Number 47.  We're not going down that path just yet.
Sucks to be in Western countries outside of the US though.

[RuamRudy]

For me, it became apparent that freedom of speech was under attack when a woman was prosecuted for highlighting a point of law. 

 

Judge defies High Court and orders police to arrest 11 for holding signs