Russia’s economy is doomed

[scottiejohn]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Do tell us how then British troops were shot for desertion/ cowardice!

https://www.quora.com/How-many-British-soldiers-were-executed-for-cowardice-in-WWI

During WW1, eighteen British and Commonwealth soldiers were executed after having been convicted of the specific offence of “cowardice in the face of the enemy”.

Desertion 266

Cowardice 18

And what is that figure in relation the total number of British and Commonwealth soldiers involved in WW1!

I can tell you in one word-INSIGNIFICANT!

[Yagoda]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Perhaps it's time for WW3 to solve the population time bomb.

 

[TedG]

3 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

After 20 years, the US failed to conquer Afghanistan because they didn’t set out to do so. Similarly, Russia didn’t set out to conquer Ukraine. That was merely western propaganda to try and claim some sort of hollow victory. I’m surprised you can’t see that. Did I tell you that I have a bridge for sale?

Does this mean Putin is going to spending 17 more years failing? 

[Hummin]

3 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

After 20 years, the US failed to conquer Afghanistan because they didn’t set out to do so. Similarly, Russia didn’t set out to conquer Ukraine. That was merely western propaganda to try and claim some sort of hollow victory. I’m surprised you can’t see that. Did I tell you that I have a bridge for sale?

To Conquer Afghanistan is a totally different matter than conquering Ukraine. 

 

 

[TedG]

18 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Similarly, Russia didn’t set out to conquer Ukraine. That was merely western propaganda to try and claim some sort of hollow victory. I’m surprised you can’t see that. Did I tell you that I have a bridge for sale?

Putin did set out to conquer Ukraine.   You know it and it and I know it. 

[MicroB]

20 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

After 20 years, the US failed to conquer Afghanistan because they didn’t set out to do so. Similarly, Russia didn’t set out to conquer Ukraine. That was merely western propaganda to try and claim some sort of hollow victory. I’m surprised you can’t see that. Did I tell you that I have a bridge for sale?

 

 

The US didn't go to "conquer Afghanistan". They went to support the Northern  Alliance against the Taliban. They successfully instilled a Northern Alliance government. Subsequently, Afghanistan had several elections and changes of government. The USSR actually went to conquer Afghainistan in 1979, using Spetznatz to wipe out the existing presidency.

 

Putin;s war aims were to topple the Kyiv government and take over Ukraine as a client state. During the original Russian debacle, Russian supply convoys were intercepted containing, of all things, dress uniforms, intended for a victory parade through Kyiv. Russian officers had also placed dinner reservations in the city. Among the troops captured in that invasion wave were OMON and SOBR troops. OMON is a gendarmerie in Russia, used for  riot duty. Back in those days, we thought this nonsense would have been ended, because among these POWs were a pair of pretty sensible OMON officers, a grizzled Colonel (Lt. Col. Astakhov Dmitry Mikhailovich) and a wounded Major. Both were clearly police professionals, who had been deployed to Belarus with Russian troops to support an exercise, so were somewhat puzzled about what subsequently happened. Among the kit captured was OMON issue riot gear, with Russia anticipating the need to suppress civil unrest. The full plan by OMON and SOBR to decapitate Kyiv is remarkable (https://thedebrief.org/know-no-mercy-the-russian-cops-who-tried-to-storm-kyiv-by-themselves/)

 

Putin fully intended to conquer Ukraine. You are an Apologist.

[MicroB]

23 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Do tell us how then British troops were shot for desertion/ cowardice!

https://www.quora.com/How-many-British-soldiers-were-executed-for-cowardice-in-WWI

During WW1, eighteen British and Commonwealth soldiers were executed after having been convicted of the specific offence of “cowardice in the face of the enemy”.

Desertion 266

Cowardice 18

 

23 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

 

I can give you various stats for lots of wars. During WW2, about 50,000 US troops and 100,000 British troops deserted. Desertion takes the form of either fleeing the battlefield or going AWOL.  American troops generally didn't go home. They may have had leave in England, but there was nowhere there to run away to. For British troops, yeah, there was leave in England, and some went AWOL. Its best to consider desertion rates per 1000 troops, per year of a war.

 

A 1958 study put the British desertion rate 39-40 at 4.5/1000. In 40-41, the darkest hour, 10/1000. Improved the following year, to 9/1000, and after that a steady 5-6/1000 for the duration of the war ( Robert Ahrenfeldt (1858), Psychiatry in the British Army in the Second World War.

 

The desertion rate in WW1 among British troops was 10.5

 

In the American Civil war, by year, the desertion rate among Union troops was about 20/1000 and among the confederacy was 30/1000.

 

 

I think you must be Russian. I am referring to specific Soviet Army units who's job was to stop desertions and push forward troops. Because you must be Russian, and don't know any better, you are assuming other armies are the same. I can assure you no such units have ever existed in the British or American Armies. MPs and Provost units obviously existed to arrest those who deserted.

 

I repeat, you are repeating scurrulous and Communistic propaganda besmerching the memory and honour of British and American soldiers, in order to support your pro-Russian/Communist bias.

 

In contrast, Comrade, tell me how many of your brave fellow proletariat were executed for desertion in WW2. In 1941, after your beloved Stalin realised he ballsed up big time by being pals with Hitler, he issued Order 270, requiring all deserters to be shot on the spot. In 6 weeks, 10,000 Soviet soldiers were dispatched.

 

This failed to stem desertions. In July 1942, he issued Order 227, to form detachments of Barrier Troops, or Blocking Troops, embedded in units, to deal with both individual deserting troops as well as fleeing whole units. This order lead to the execution of 158,000 soldiers.

 

Don't you dare try and compare the conduct of American and British troops and their officers to your favoured Soviet Commissars. There is no comparison. Even your own unreferenced numbers reveal the outright lie  of your position. Yes, several hundred soldiers were shot for desertion, but the overall desertion rate  showed that for many men that was not necessary

 

You continue to deny the brutality and culpability of the Russian military leadership, not only to Ukrainians, but to their own men and women. I find that a disgusting position to take, considering the comforts of life you enjoy now.

 

 

 

 

[MicroB]

21 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

And what is that figure in relation the total number of British and Commonwealth soldiers involved in WW1!

I can tell you in one word-INSIGNIFICANT!

 

She/He's a Russian/Communist apologist. Its instinctual with her/him

 

The study of military psychiatry is very complex, and, really, desertion rates have to be analysed in the context of the war.

 

My grandfather was at the fall of Singapore. Based on what he saw there, he was disgusted with the behaviour of the Australian troops. He saw them throwing away their rifles and stripped of uniform. That's the fog of war, because what he didn't realise was that the Aussies without uniforms were part of a rearguard action in Malaya, who bought some time, and ended up swimming over to Singapore. The soldiers he saw fleeing were newly arrived reinforcements; kids with barely any training. The first time they held a rifle was in Singapore. In Australia, they drilled with sticks, such was the haste and shortage of troops in response to the debacle. But he was not to know that.

 

An excellent analysis in Army Review, though its probably dated a bit

 

https://www.armyupress.army.mil/Journals/Military-Review/English-Edition-Archives/May-June-2024/MJ-24-Will-to-Fight/

 

Notably the Russian apologist might want to review:

 

 

 

Some interesting expert viewpoints on Russian Barrier Troop deployments in Southern Ukraine:

 

https://www.forcesnews.com/video?video=52716&category=4812&playlist=&videoId=6355766821112&page=17

[Gweiloman]

2 hours ago, MicroB said:

 

The US didn't go to "conquer Afghanistan". 

 

Putin fully intended to conquer Ukraine. You are an Apologist.

The US didn't go to "conquer Afghanistan".

What I said. Thanks for supporting my point.

 

Putin fully intended to conquer Ukraine. You are an Apologist.

Did he tell you so? What do I have to apologise for? Want to buy a bridge too? I’ve sold a few recently.