EV Owners Frustrated as Samui Ferries Restrict EV Transport Over New Year Period

[KhunLA]

14 minutes ago, daveAustin said:

I've got more cars than you. Na na na-na na! 😋

How does the Raptor go, btw?

Only got 1 car,  1 E-MC, 1 ebike, as can only drive 1 at a time.  Others were for reference to post replied to.  I stopped collecting vehicles when I got to TH.  

[Georgealbert]

8 minutes ago, transam said:

 

On the vessel in question..........😂

 

Now I would assume the vessel in question has insurance to transport cars, perhaps the boat's insurance goes up if he carries EV battery vehicles, or they do not want to invest in the extra EV fire equipment..........

I posted real and up to date information on the burn rates, heat release from EV fires and latest guidance on how responders deal with EV fires. It has nothing to do with “on this vessel”

 

Maybe try reading the links I posted, which are real facts and not just believing only your opinion is the truth.

 

 

[transam]

13 minutes ago, Georgealbert said:

I posted real and up to date information on the burn rates, heat release from EV fires and latest guidance on how responders deal with EV fires. It has nothing to do with “on this vessel”

 

Maybe try reading the links I posted, which are real facts and not just believing only your opinion is the truth.

 

 

Have you been on "this vessel" to check out their fire equipment............?   🤔

 

 

[Georgealbert]

1 minute ago, transam said:

Have you been on "this vessel" to check out their fire equipment............?   🤔

So again total deflection. You fail to explain where the professional research and guidance is wrong or not accurate. The information I posted was on EV fires data, research and latest guidelines, has nothing to do with this vessel, unless you are you trying to imply that the vessel should not be used for any form of transport, as it has inadequate fire fighting equipment?

 

You do understand that the same fire fighting equipment would be used on any fire, ICEV, CNG, fittings, furniture, stock, etc.

 

I understand that you will find the research difficult to understand.

[BE88]

But if the ferries in Thailand aren't even capable of putting out a car fire with an internal combustion engine, are you so sure that with a UV they don't know that using sea water doesn't put it out but feeds it.

[Georgealbert]

19 minutes ago, transam said:

Have you been on "this vessel" to check out their fire equipment............?   🤔

 

 

So funny

 

I post real research from The RISE Research Institutes of Sweden, the top European research lab for everything about fire, plus guidance supported and endorsed by NFPA and CTIF.

 

RISE - RISE Research Institutes of Sweden is Sweden’s research institute and innovation partner. Through international collaboration with industry, academia and the public sector, we ensure business competitiveness and contribute to a sustainable society.

 

NFPA - Known as the trusted source of safety knowledge, the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) has been helping to solve some of the planet’s toughest safety problems for more than 125 years. To remain relevant for over a century as a knowledge and information organization, we’ve continually evolved our scope of expertise—from fire prevention, wildfire preparedness, and electrical safety to hazardous materials, community risk reduction, and public safety.

 

CTIF - The International Association of Fire & Rescue Services

 

Do you really think posting a YouTube video matches that?

[transam]

52 minutes ago, Georgealbert said:

So again total deflection. You fail to explain where the professional research and guidance is wrong or not accurate. The information I posted was on EV fires data, research and latest guidelines, has nothing to do with this vessel, unless you are you trying to imply that the vessel should not be used for any form of transport, as it has inadequate fire fighting equipment?

 

You do understand that the same fire fighting equipment would be used on any fire, ICEV, CNG, fittings, furniture, stock, etc.

 

I understand that you will find the research difficult to understand.

The thread is about this BOAT, which you seem to have difficulty understanding, I have put points forward regarding THIS boat, which you have dismissed.

Insurance, equipment to deal with a fire that creates its own oxygen etc, on this BOAT....🙄

[transam]

36 minutes ago, Georgealbert said:

So funny

 

I post real research from The RISE Research Institutes of Sweden, the top European research lab for everything about fire, plus guidance supported and endorsed by NFPA and CTIF.

 

RISE - RISE Research Institutes of Sweden is Sweden’s research institute and innovation partner. Through international collaboration with industry, academia and the public sector, we ensure business competitiveness and contribute to a sustainable society.

 

NFPA - Known as the trusted source of safety knowledge, the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) has been helping to solve some of the planet’s toughest safety problems for more than 125 years. To remain relevant for over a century as a knowledge and information organization, we’ve continually evolved our scope of expertise—from fire prevention, wildfire preparedness, and electrical safety to hazardous materials, community risk reduction, and public safety.

 

CTIF - The International Association of Fire & Rescue Services

 

Do you really think posting a YouTube video matches that?

Regarding THIS BOAT..........Gawd 'elp us........

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, transam said:

On the vessel in question..........😂

 

Now I would assume the vessel in question has insurance to transport cars, perhaps the boat's insurance goes up if he carries EV battery vehicles, or they do not want to invest in the extra EV fire equipment..........

 

I think thats a valid point - its certainly involves less stupidity than the company making an emotional knee-jerk reaction without valid facts.

 

There is already precedence regarding insurance differences when it comes to EV's and ICE's - as EV's now have to have named drivers only rather than 'any driver' with First Class insurance. 

 

That said - there comes another facet when dealing with this company - are we even sure its insured in the first place ????      It certainly wouldn't be the first time vessels in Thailand have ignored all regulations and laws in the interests of proffits.....

 

 

But... if your comment [Trans] were correct, I would expect that to be mentioned in the OP.

 

But....   to finally shut down your point - The article states this policy is only over New Year - which shuts down the Insurance angle. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Georgealbert]

Just now, transam said:

The thread is about this BOAT, which you seem to have difficulty understanding, I have put points forward regarding THIS boat, which you have dismissed.

Insurance, equipment to deal with a fire that creates its own oxygen etc, on this BOAT....🙄

I know what the topic is about, it may have avoided your notice, but it was my OP.

 

I posted research about the effects on EV fires on boats, real facts.

 

All you have done is try to deflect, as you believe only your unqualified opinion is right.

 

You clearly have little understanding of the subject, are unable or unwilling to look at real research, by professional bodies involved in the fire and research industry and really believe that a YouTube backs up your tunnel vision of reality.

 

it is pointless trying to debate with someone that when presented with the facts, chooses not to read them and clearly fails to understand their own limitations when trying to discuss technical issues.

[transam]

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I think thats a valid point - its certainly less stupid than the company making a knee-jerk reaction. 

 

There is already precedence regarding insurance differences when it comes to EV's and ICE's - as EV's no can only have named drivers rather than 'any driver' with First Class insurance. 

 

That said - there comes another facet when dealing with this company - are we even sure its insured in the first place ????      It certainly wouldn't be the first time vessels in Thailand have ignored all regulations and laws in the interests of proffits.....

 

But... it your comment [Trans] could be the reason why, although I would expect that to be mentioned in the OP.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is Thailand..........😉.....

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, transam said:

This is Thailand..........😉.....

 

Meaning ??...   you think they may be insured only over the New Year period, and that prevents them from taking EV's ???

 

....  that one's bit wobbly I think Trans...  unless you meant something else ?

[transam]

1 minute ago, Georgealbert said:

I know what the topic is about, it may have avoided your notice, but it was my OP.

 

I posted research about the effects on EV fires on boats, real facts.

 

All you have done is try to deflect, as you believe only your unqualified opinion is right.

 

You clearly have little understanding of the subject, are unable or unwilling to look at real research, by professional bodies involved in the fire and research industry and really believe that a YouTube backs up your tunnel vision of reality.

 

it is pointless trying to debate with someone that when presented with the facts, chooses not to read them and clearly fails to understand their own limitations when trying to discuss technical issues.

Total nonsense, the thread is about A boat and how IT operates, not how YOU operate....

Knowing this BOAT's onboard safety equipment would be a step in the right direction, not links to how to put an EV fire out, we can find that out ourselves...........🥴

[transam]

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Meaning ??...   you think they may be insured only over the New Year period, and that prevents them from taking EV's ???

 

....  that one's bit wobbly I think Trans...  unless you meant something else ?

We do not know their small print insurance policy details, or, if the EV thing has an insurance increase, and we all know things can be a bit lax here........😉

 

But, whatever, for sure, the BOAT operators have had something pointed out to them....

[richard_smith237]

3 minutes ago, transam said:

Total nonsense, the thread is about A boat and how IT operates, not how YOU operate....

Knowing this BOAT's onboard safety equipment would be a step in the right direction, not links to how to put an EV fire out, we can find that out ourselves...........🥴

 

I think for the sake of argument this boat would have extremely limited fire-safety equipment. 

 

At a guess - it would have a handful of 'Fire hoses'....  (reliant on sea water) - given its age I wonder if the valves are corroded and how often its tested.

 

I doubt it has a full deluge system in the car-bay, and again, given its age I wonder if the valves are corroded and how often its tested.

 

 

I wouldn't hold much faith in the ability of either the staff (which aren't many) or the equipments to handle a regular ICE car fire very well before is spreads out of control in such tightly packed confines of a car bay. 

 

I hold no faith whatsoever that the ability of either the staff or the equipments to handle an EV car fire at all.

 

 

I think the ICE vs EV car fire on such a vessle becomes moot - because if either occurs - IMO the event is likely to be catastrophic and unmanageable....

 

.... and this is why I believe probability comes into it - and realistically the probability of a Hybrid, ICE or EV fire on board this boat for the short duration of crossing is incredibly small and sufficiently low not to warrant concern at all. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

5 minutes ago, transam said:

We do not know their small print insurance policy details, or, if the EV thing has an insurance increase, and we all know things can be a bit lax here........😉

 

But, whatever, for sure, the BOAT operators have had something pointed out to them....

 

I'm not so sure about that either....  I think more knee jerk opinion than informed response is at play here.

 

I've been in 'meetings' here... with owners of companies etc...     The Pu-Yai speaks and everyone else agrees, thats that... ...    this is why we see so many of these announcements in the first place...

 

....   Big Boss says something and no one else is brave enough to stand up and say "Are you for real, thats ridiculous"... then we read the news of this policy, that policy etc....  and then debate the idiocy on here... 

 

 

BUT... lets say your 'insurance idea' is a genuine issue - why is this just for New Year only ? - that part makes no sense - and thus, IMO the insurance aspect to this discussion does not hold water (no pun).

[transam]

Just now, richard_smith237 said:

 

I think for the sake of argument this boat would have extremely limited fire-safety equipment. 

 

At a guess - it would have a handful of 'Fire hoses'....  (reliant on sea water) - given its age I wonder if the valves are corroded and how often its tested.

 

I doubt it has a full deluge system in the car-bay, and again, given its age I wonder if the valves are corroded and how often its tested.

 

 

I wouldn't hold much faith in the ability of either the staff (which aren't many) or the equipments to handle a regular ICE car fire very well before is spreads out of control in such tightly packed confines of a car bay. 

 

I hold no faith whatsoever that the ability of either the staff or the equipments to handle an EV car fire at all.

 

 

I think the ICE vs EV car fire on such a vessle becomes moot - because if either occurs - IMO the event is likely to be catastrophic and unmanageable....

 

.... and this is why I believe probability comes into it - and realistically the probability of a Hybrid, ICE or EV fire on board this boat for the short duration of crossing is incredibly small and sufficiently low not to warrant concern at all. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That has been my thought, regarding this 'boat', not any other boat...🤗

 

 

[transam]

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I'm not so sure about that either....  I think more knee jerk opinion than informed response is at play here.

 

I've been in 'meetings' here... with owners of companies etc...     The Pu-Yai speaks and everyone else agrees, thats that... ...    this is why we see so many of these announcements in the first place...

 

....   Big Boss says something and no one else is brave enough to stand up and say "Are you for real, thats ridiculous"... then we read the news of this policy, that policy etc....  and then debate the idiocy on here... 

 

 

BUT... lets say your 'insurance idea' is a genuine issue - why is this just for New Year only ? - that part makes no sense - and thus, IMO the insurance aspect to this discussion does not hold water (no pun).

But, there must be a reason to turn business away, which is unusual here.......😱

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

But, there must be a reason to turn business away, which is unusual here.......😱

 

I'm going for 'Stupidity'.....    I see lots of owners make rather stupid business decisions all over the world, Thailand is not immune to this.

 

Perhaps over beers the owners mate told him that EV's are dangerous and the owner took the next leap and made this decision....     In fact, my suspicion is more this, than anything else. 

 

 

[Georgealbert]

23 minutes ago, transam said:

Total nonsense, the thread is about A boat and how IT operates, not how YOU operate....

Knowing this BOAT's onboard safety equipment would be a step in the right direction, not links to how to put an EV fire out, we can find that out ourselves...........🥴

Again showing your serious lack of understanding on the subject. It is about the risk EVs pose to ferries.
 

When I educate and improve my knowledge and understanding I look to professional bodies, read the data and research and not base my thinking on a YouTube video.

 

Here is some more real information, which I sure you will again fail to read and understand.

 

Uk guidance on EVs on ferries.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/mgn-653-m-amendment-1-electric-vehicles-onboard-passenger-roll-onroll-off-ro-ro-ferries/mgn-653-m-amendment-1-electric-vehicles-onboard-passenger-roll-onroll-off-ro-ro-ferries--2

 

Canadian government guidance

 

https://tc.canada.ca/en/marine-transportation/marine-safety/ship-safety-bulletins/guidelines-safely-transport-electric-vehicles-canadian-ferries-ssb-no-04-2024

 

Articles on the risks.

Royal Institution of Naval Architects https://rina.org.uk/publications/the-naval-architect/ferry-companies-grapple-with-rising-threat-of-ev-fires/

 

The Confederation of Fire Protection Association Europe CFPA Europe - https://cfpa-e.eu/new-knowledge-about-battery-fires-in-electric-cars-on-ferries/

 

Try to educate yourself, then you would stop embarrassing yourself with your lack of knowledge and understanding.

 

You also seem to not understand that Raja Ferries is a company, not a single boat and currently operates a fleet of 14 vessels.

 

 

 

[black tabby12345]

A sound judgement.

As the breakout of fire on a crowded boat will be catastrophic.

Transport operators cannot be too careful as they are responsible for many lives on board.

[transam]

1 minute ago, Georgealbert said:

Again showing your serious lack of understanding on the subject. It is about the risk EVs pose to ferries.
 

When I educate and improve my knowledge and understanding I look to professional bodies, read the data and research and not base my thinking on a YouTube video.

 

Here is some more real information, which I sure you will again fail to read and understand.

 

Uk guidance on EVs on ferries.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/mgn-653-m-amendment-1-electric-vehicles-onboard-passenger-roll-onroll-off-ro-ro-ferries/mgn-653-m-amendment-1-electric-vehicles-onboard-passenger-roll-onroll-off-ro-ro-ferries--2

 

Canadian government guidance

 

https://tc.canada.ca/en/marine-transportation/marine-safety/ship-safety-bulletins/guidelines-safely-transport-electric-vehicles-canadian-ferries-ssb-no-04-2024

 

Articles on the risks.

Royal Institution of Naval Architects https://rina.org.uk/publications/the-naval-architect/ferry-companies-grapple-with-rising-threat-of-ev-fires/

 

The Confederation of Fire Protection Association Europe CFPA Europe - https://cfpa-e.eu/new-knowledge-about-battery-fires-in-electric-cars-on-ferries/

 

Try to educate yourself, then you would stop embarrassing yourself with your lack of knowledge and understanding.

 

You also seem to not understand that Raja Ferries is a company, not a single boat and currently operates a fleet of 14 vessels.

 

 

 

No list of fire safety equipment on these 14 BOAT's then, or any other reason why the company has chosen to ban EV's regarding this thread.......🥴

 

Now concentrate.....RAJA BOAT's.............😌

 

[kwak250]

4 hours ago, KhunLA said:

.... "“Firstly, the battery pack in a new electric car is significantly more fireproof than in an old one. When we short-circuited the battery cells in a Renault Fluence, the whole battery caught fire. When we ignited it in a newer Tesla model 3, only the battery cell affected caught fire.

 

Secondly, the positive message is that fires in electric cars on board ferries are manageable and not something we need to fear. All the fires in our tests could be extinguished, so with the correct fire-fighting technologies on board, the correct training of the crew and well-coordinated collaboration with the onshore emergency services, electric cars should not pose a safety problem in ferry traffic,” says Alexander Kleiman." 

Good luck with Somchai being able to put out an EV fire on a ferry.

I did not know Alexander Kleiman is now working on the Samui Ferry.
 

[transam]

9 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I'm going for 'Stupidity'.....    I see lots of owners make rather stupid business decisions all over the world, Thailand is not immune to this.

 

Perhaps over beers the owners mate told him that EV's are dangerous and the owner took the next leap and made this decision....     In fact, my suspicion is more this, than anything else. 

 

 

Weeeeeeeell, when in comes to money here, and everyone is answerable where money loss is concerned, I don't think so.....🤗

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, black tabby12345 said:

A sound judgement.

As the breakout of fire on a crowded boat will be catastrophic.

Transport operators cannot be too careful as they are responsible for many lives on board.

 

I'm not as confident as you that sound judgement was involved - this is in fact a bigger red flag for me !!! i.e. the fact that this was more than likely a decision based on emotion rather than any basis in science or effective risk assessment. 

 

If you haven't already done so, you may also be interested in a link posted earlier that the 'break-out' of fires from an ICE vehicle is faster and more extensive, as well as a statistical higher probability than fires from EVs... but, also admittedly once an EV fire has taken hold its far more difficult to extinguish....

 

It should also be noted that due to the high density of vehicles any fire whether started by Hybrid, LPG, ICE, EV is likely to catastrophic and uncontrollable without highly advanced systems. 

 

 

Thus: IF this risk were as significant as some are 'emotionally' suggesting - EV's would be banned on all ferries, all car parks in condos and shopping malls etc....     and then they'd have to look at all other cars which present a greater risk of fire, particularly hybrids and LPG vehicles.... 

 

 

The reality is - the risk is low enough from all types of vehicle for this not to be a significant concern.

Thats not to say risk is absent, but as with taking an Aircraft flight the risk is small enough not for it to be a concern.

 

 

 

[Georgealbert]

1 minute ago, transam said:

No list of fire safety equipment on these 14 BOAT's then, or any other reason why the company has chosen to ban EV's regarding this thread.......🥴

 

Now concentrate.....RAJA BOAT's.............😌

 

Do you mean firefighting equipment, not fire safety equipment, but then I doubt you understand the difference.

 

The same firefighting equipment is required for all fires, nothing different, which I have explained previously. So if the ban was based on inadequate firefighting provisions, then all vehicles would be banned.

 

Why the company made the decision has not been released, so it is pointless guessing. It is certainly not because of any new Thai regulations, or it would apply to all companies and ferries.

[transam]

Just now, kwak250 said:

Good luck with Somchai being able to put out an EV fire on a ferry.
From what i have seen of them you need to run the other way as quick as possible and come back a few hours/days later .

I think most of us have been on a car ferry at some time, the cars are jamb packed like sardines, job to open the door. 

When you think about it, any decent ferry will have the correct stuff to deal with a petrol or diesel fire in this overcrowded situation, but an EV fire, hmmmm, we have all seen what happens when one of those goes up, let alone the gases that are given off....

 

I doubt very much this company could deal with an EV fire, but it would be interesting to know...😊

[Captain Flack]

A number of reported trolling emojis have been removed.

 

@transam reminder of rule 11. You will not troll or stalk other members by misusing forum posts, private messages, reactions, emojis or by any other means.

 

[KhunLA]

10 minutes ago, kwak250 said:

Good luck with Somchai being able to put out an EV fire on a ferry.

I did not know Alexander Kleiman is now working on the Samui Ferry.
 

First you have to have a fire, and little chance of that happening ... IMHO

[richard_smith237]

8 minutes ago, transam said:

No list of fire safety equipment on these 14 BOAT's then, or any other reason why the company has chosen to ban EV's regarding this thread.......🥴

 

Now concentrate.....RAJA BOAT's.............😌

 

OK - concentrating on Raja's boats - given their history, there is a greater risk of capsize !!... 

 

Why has the company chosen to Ban EV's ???....          This is a concern...  

 

IF this company executed a factual analysis it would reveal that the risks associated with EVs and internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicles on ferries are virtually indistinguishable.

Thus, the real issue is the knee-jerk decision-making within the company, which casts doubt on its overall operational competence.

 

If the alleged risk were genuine, why impose a ban on EVs only during the New Year period? - the inconsistency highlights the policy is purely emotional, driven by someone in a position of authority within the company who lacks the requisite technical knowledge.

 

Hence the concern:  the broader perspective regarding other decisions that may be made with similarly flawed reasoning, particularly where safety is concerned - and perhaps why the company has had issues regarding safety in the past.