Revenue Department boss calls on tax residents in Thailand to file 2024 returns by March 31

[The Cyclist]

11 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Yeah, that worked really well for you, didn't it.

 

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.

 

Are you a bit vexxed that I can get up my arse and go and try and find out things for myself ?
 

29 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

And whilst the information is sketchy at best, sometimes confusing. I still hold the belief that the reporting under CRS by Financial Instutions, including tax department, will require expats in Thailand from CRS member Countries to report remittances into Thailand.

 

And below is the important part.

 

29 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Otherwise it makes a mockery of the core aim of CRS, which is to detect and deter,  tax avoidance / evasion.

 

At the moment there is nothing working out, either good or bad for me.

 

So take your sniping from the sidelines and enjoy your life.

[JimGant]

14 hours ago, chiang mai said:

I can prove that the average wage in Thailand is 15k Baht per month which is below the filing threshold

Not if you're single, whose filing threshold requirement is 120k -- well below the 180k average annual wage. And, if your married, and your wife makes 3.4k annually -- you now meet the 220k threshold requiring filing a tax return.

 

Sounds like a lot of folks are ignoring (more likely, unaware) of the filing requirement. Understandable, since it's a dumb requirement, as there's no revenue gained by requiring null tax filings.

[jwest10]

54 minutes ago, 4myr said:

 

Finally, someone like Carl Turner of Expat Tax Thailand is very clear on who needs to file a tax return!

BTW he missed one item as not assessable, income earned before 2024, but TRD Sept 2024 flyer is clear on that: https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/user_upload/lorkhor/newspr/2024/FOREIGNERS_PAY_TAX2024.pdf

 

 

Yes, I note also on the first page  and although most probably in Thailand for over 180 days but then states remit or bring in more than and above the minimum  thresholds.
That means those who bring in less than 500 or 560K do not file a tax form!!

[JimGant]

8 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.

 

Are you a bit vexxed that I can get up my arse and go and try and find out things for myself ?

Exactly what questions did you have for TRD that you couldn't answer for yourself? Certainly, nothing to do with your DTA, or your remitted income subject to Por 162? Maybe whether or not you had to include non assessable income on your return? A clever fellow would assume -- if there are no lines for including non assessable income, maybe it's not required.... Duh.

[Will B Good]

On 1/4/2025 at 4:02 AM, anchadian said:

Revenue Department urges tax residents in Thailand to file 2024 returns by March 31. Expats with over 180 days in Thailand must submit returns for income remitted in 2024. New tax rules require filing electronically, with possible refunds for early submissions.

 

The Director-General of the Revenue Department on Thursday called on taxpayers to file their end-of-year returns for 2024. This will be the first year that all foreign residents in Thailand are included. Changes to tax regulations in 2023 make all income remitted to Thailand by foreign residents in the country for over 180 days last year declarable. The income tax payable by each foreigner depends on the nature of such income and the tax treaty with their country of origin. The question now is how many foreign taxpayers will file returns between now and March 31st. After that, it remains to be seen if follow-up actions will be taken against those who fail to do so. A Thai Examiner survey in 2024 showed that 16% of people plan to take professional advice, while a full 58% would not file a return at all.

 

https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2025/01/03/revenue-department-boss-calls-on-tax-residents-in-thailand-to-file-2024-runs-by-the-march-31st-deadline/

 

I can still see them tying this to visa extensions at some point.

[jwest10]

4 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

 

I can still see them tying this to visa extensions at some point.

Frankly who know anything and this whole process been handled very poorly indeed and seen this question before?
Nothing mentioned about this on my last 90 day and just stated and gave me forms for extension in Jan/Feb

[JimGant]

3 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

Am I any the wiser after yesterday's trip. The answer is no.

Perhaps "leave well-enough alone" comes to mind?

[The Cyclist]

6 minutes ago, JimGant said:

A clever fellow would assume -

 

And there is your mistake right there.

 

A clever fellow never assumes.

 

Just like clever people know that different immigration departments require different paperwork.

[The Cyclist]

2 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Perhaps "leave well-enough alone" comes to mind?

 

Why ? Are you scared that you might get caught up in something ?
 

I'll do my thing and you do yours.

[The Cyclist]

I'll repost this just for the benefit of @JimGant who appears to be struggling

 

Quote

Just for anyone that might be confused by my actions. I couldn't really care less whether I have to file or don't have to file. I'm just trying to get a definitive answer, that keeps me on the right side of the Thai tax man.

 

[connda]

1 hour ago, Dcheech said:

https://www.expattaxthailand.com/thailand-expat-tax-rates-allowances-and-deductions/

Side note - asking for a friend ... and myself. 
The personal deduction is 60K & if over 65 190K. Got that. However a friend ran onto this, from the site linked above. 

"Taxpayers aged 65 or over are entitled to claim an additional personal allowance of 190,000 baht. This is in addition to their 60,000 baht personal allowance."

According to that statement a 65 year old expat would have a personal deduction of 250K.  Is that true?

Thanks
 

I did the spreadsheet a few months back:



So, do you really owe Thailand any tax.  If not, why file.

They can fine you 2000 THB.

Ya know, if I file I could recoup all of the withholding tax they take out of my bank interest payments.  But it is such a pittance at 1% interest that it's not worth my time to go and claim it.  Same goes with a fine.  It's worth 2000 THB for me to not waste my time filing when I don't owe Thailand any taxes, on the contrary, they owe me a tax withholding refund.   If they leave those of us who owe no taxes alone - like they do for the majority of Thai citizens - then it's a win-win. 

[Sheryl]

Is there still a fine for non-filing if:

 

(1)you had no assessable income

(2) your assessable income was under threshold for taxation?

 

Per Price Waterhouse:

 

"All persons earning income are required to file a tax return no later than 31 March of the following year for hardcopy filing and 8 April for online filing, except for individuals whose income from employment is THB 120,000 or less (for single persons) or THB 220,000 or less (for married persons) and in the case of having income from other sources (with or without employment income) of THB 60,000 or less (for single persons) or THB 120,000 or less (for married persons)."

https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/thailand/individual/tax-administration

[jonesthepost]

Has anyone found what doucuments are required  to submit a tax return. I phoned them and asked as to what was required and  wwas told by  a very unhelpfull member of staff she would not any questions on the phone, explained  I am  disabled and it is difficult to leave the house got the same answer 

[nglodnig]

14 hours ago, OJAS said:

The only email you're ever likely to receive from the TRD

As I have NEVER contacted the TRD it does not even know I exist.

 

uNLESS TRD instructs EVERY bank operating in Thailand to provide a list of customers who receive foreign remittances I am unlikely to surface - and I do not believe this has happened yet.

 

[Dionigi]

On 1/4/2025 at 12:38 PM, topt said:

From reading the linked article I cannot see anywhere where new TRD DG actually mentions "foreigners" at all.........

 

It appears it was just a general statement about tax residents filing which the publication neatly segued into potential Thai expat requirements and it's own take on the subject. 

 

[Sheryl]

15 minutes ago, jonesthepost said:

Has anyone found what doucuments are required  to submit a tax return. I phoned them and asked as to what was required and  wwas told by  a very unhelpfull member of staff she would not any questions on the phone, explained  I am  disabled and it is difficult to leave the house got the same answer 

Form PND90 assuming not employed  in Thailand

 

For tax year 2024 you only need to declare assessable remittances from abroad

 

If no assessable remittances, or if assessable remittances are below a certain threshold, not required to file at all

 

Things may change next year as they may start taxing global income even if not remitted to Thailand

[jwest10]

2 minutes ago, Dionigi said:

Second line "Expats with over 180 days in Thailand "

And on Carl Turner you tube if rmitting more than the thresholds so no form is required!!

[jwest10]

20 minutes ago, nglodnig said:

As I have NEVER contacted the TRD it does not even know I exist.

 

uNLESS TRD instructs EVERY bank operating in Thailand to provide a list of customers who receive foreign remittances I am unlikely to surface - and I do not believe this has happened yet.

 

Yeah beware of the gossips and yes people are aware and know people!!! 

[worrab]

On 1/4/2025 at 12:51 PM, Sheryl said:

That had been my understanding but the article states all  remittances are declarable.  (Declarable not necessarily assessable...but no way to show that on a tax form). 

Having spoken with an accountant, my remittances through inheritance do not need to be declared as they are not liable for taxation. No need for a TIN either.

[Dcheech]

45 minutes ago, connda said:

So, do you really owe Thailand any tax.  If not, why file.

They can fine you 2000 THB.

That is the question. In our little coffee group, we all have accounts established pre24, no new money. That would be  tax free by their rules. However there would be a small amount assessable, based on interest or capitol gains comingled in that account from 24. Easy enough to figure that small percentage out, of the money we send over. With personal deductions, let alone other deductions, nothing is owed in tax. Not talking about pensions or SS, here. Back to ... do we have to file?! 

 

Its not the 2000B penalty. We just would like to continue to be law abiding expats, garf! as likely lifers & here for the duration. The consensus in our little group, is wait until March, see if something clearer than mud turns up.  No taxes owed but .... potentially yet another fricking hoop jump, and What Fun  



 

[The Cyclist]

36 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Is there still a fine for non-filing if:

 

(1)you had no assessable income

(2) your assessable income was under threshold for taxation?

 

Per Price Waterhouse:

 

"All persons earning income are required to file a tax return no later than 31 March of the following year for hardcopy filing and 8 April for online filing, except for individuals whose income from employment is THB 120,000 or less (for single persons) or THB 220,000 or less (for married persons) and in the case of having income from other sources (with or without employment income) of THB 60,000 or less (for single persons) or THB 120,000 or less (for married persons)."

https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/thailand/individual/tax-administration

 

This is where the confusion comes from.

 

I read that as file if above those thresholds. And then batter out with the TRD what is exempt income, apply TEDA's and  tax credits etc.

 

A DTA might exempt you from paying tax on certain sources of income, it does not exempt you from filing a tax return.

[jwest10]

4 minutes ago, Dcheech said:

That is the question. In our little coffee group, we all have accounts established pre24, no new money. That would be  tax free by their rules. However there would be a small amount assessable, based on interest or capitol gains comingled in that account from 24. Easy enough to figure that small percentage out, of the money we send over. With personal deductions, let alone other deductions, nothing is owed in tax. Not talking about pensions or SS, here. Back to ... do we have to file?! 

 

Its not the 2000B penalty. We just would like to continue to be law abiding expats, garf! as likely lifers & here for the duration. The consensus in our little group, is wait until March, see if something clearer than mud appears.  No taxes owed but .... potentially yet another fricking hoop jump. And What Fun  

 

Yes indeed try and have fun here everyday!!

[bugger bognor]

Since this story broke the fear mongering and hysteria has spread throughout the expat community only the charlatans YouTubers and foreign tax companies here have profited from the narrative. The media have only added fuel to the fire, The simple facts are if any of this was true about getting a Tn and submitting a tax return I mean all expats! We would have been informed shortly after the memo went out of our responsibilitys every immigration office would have an advertising campaign all online reporting would have a banner referring to a website with all the new criteria in multiple languages! The Thai revenue department would have recruited hundreds nationally if not thousands of extra staff experts in every language and every country in the world tax laws to cope with the influx of foreign tax returns this imo would take decades not only to implement also to put into law, ask yourself why you have not been directly informed by immigration via your 90 day reports ! The reason is simple it's not going to happen maybe they will target ultra rich foreigners with offshore companies bringing in large amounts of revenue! That I could believe they could target .The work and effort and staffing to force all expats through the Thai system would not be cost effective be extremely time consuming and very bad for future foreign investment in property and businesses locating here! At the end of the day common sense will prevail it's always about the money not your personal feelings TIT relax you've nothing to worry about 

 

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, Will B Good said:

 

I can still see them tying this to visa extensions at some point.

I think this is the best way to make sure everyone knows what the rules are. Most countries do this and in terms of fairness, US citizens should do it in Thailand as Thais have to show  W-2 forms and copies of U.S. income tax returns when even renewing retirement visas.

[Presnock]

2 hours ago, Presnock said:

well based on the forms as have been reported, they still say "assessab'e income" and exempted income unless it fits one of the examples given if it includes non-assessable income should not be filed on these tax forms.  Why is the phrase "ALL ASSESSABLE INCOME"  even used unless it is the very meaning of what the TRD wants from all the expats.

you can contact the "thai Revenue Dept English for the English version of the tax laws and obtaining a tax id, doing the forms etc.

[Presnock]

2 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

 

If we ignore our American contingent for the moment, who have FATCA operating for a good number of years.

 

Non Americans, especially Western Countries, have had no such system in place.

 

From March 2023, Thailand has adopted CRS, which is the OECD equivalent of FATCA.

 

And whilst the information is sketchy at best, sometimes confusing. I still hold the belief that the reporting under CRS by Financial Instutions, including tax department, will require expats in Thailand from CRS member Countries to report remittances into Thailand.

 

The Revenue Department being the obvious choice to do this.

 

Otherwise it makes a mockery of the core aim of CRS, which is to detect and deter,  tax avoidance / evasion.

 

I think the whole thing has been badly worded, badly implimented, and confusion still reigns supreme because it was badly worded and badly implimented.

Thailand only joined on FACTA recently, although it has been around since 2014 I believe, you can query FACTA and Thailand and it will advise of the exact joining year.  That website also says your local bank should advise you of their working with FACTA.

[In Full Agreement]

On 1/4/2025 at 10:10 AM, Rampant Rabbit said:

which would be mildy reasonable if they werent  filching from their own country at every level in  the  billions, nah stuff em

 

 

It'll be a chilly day in hell before I voluntarily present myself in front of the firing squad.

 

 

 

[Presnock]

2 hours ago, 4myr said:

 

Finally, someone like Carl Turner of Expat Tax Thailand is very clear on who needs to file a tax return!

BTW he missed one item as not assessable, income earned before 2024, but TRD Sept 2024 flyer is clear on that: https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/user_upload/lorkhor/newspr/2024/FOREIGNERS_PAY_TAX2024.pdf

 

 

he says exactly what I have been saying - ss civil service pension if DTA specifically exempt it, do not need to file!

[4myr]

9 minutes ago, Presnock said:

you can contact the "thai Revenue Dept English for the English version of the tax laws and obtaining a tax id, doing the forms etc.

Yeah done that calling the English call center and even got hold of the central dept in Bangkok. Promised to get back to answer my email questions, but no way. There is even a Revenue Code in English: https://rd.go.th/english/6045.html. At the end of the page there is nothing more to add:
Last updated: 19.10.2017

 

[Presnock]

1 minute ago, 4myr said:

Yeah done that calling the English call center and even got hold of the central dept in Bangkok. Promised to get back to answer my email questions, but no way. There is even a Revenue Code in English: https://rd.go.th/english/6045.html. At the end of the page there is nothing more to add:
Last updated: 19.10.2017

 

well, I never call them, I just access the web page and read....