Revenue Department boss calls on tax residents in Thailand to file 2024 returns by March 31

[IsaanT]

Firstly, an apology.  I haven't read most of this thread because only facts count, not opinions (sometimes, as we know, the two can get confused).  Tax is an important matter for me and I don't wish to create any issues with my host country.

However, I asked ChatGPT for advice and I believe it to be pragmatic and sensible.  It said:
 

Tax Filing Requirements for Expats

1. Tax Resident Status: If you stay in Thailand for more than 180 days in a calendar year, you are considered a Thai tax resident and are required to file a tax return if you have assessable income.
   • If you have no assessable income in Thailand, you may not need to file, but consulting the local Revenue Office for confirmation is advisable.
2. Obtaining a Thai TIN (Tax Identification Number):
   • It is true that you need a Thai TIN to file a tax return.
   • While anecdotal reports suggest difficulties in obtaining TINs for retired expats, this may vary by province or district. Retirees with no assessable income may not automatically qualify for a TIN, as Thai tax authorities often prioritize individuals with income-generating activities.
   • To apply for a TIN, you typically need your passport, visa, and possibly proof of address in Thailand. Retirees should explain their intention to file a tax return due to residency requirements.

---

Filing Your Tax Return

• If you do not have assessable income, you might not need to file a return, but doing so can sometimes demonstrate compliance and avoid potential misunderstandings with immigration or tax authorities.
• The anecdote about compiling information on a spreadsheet and having the local tax office transcribe it into their system is accurate in some areas. Thai tax offices are often accommodating, particularly if you don’t speak Thai fluently or are unfamiliar with the forms.
  • It's advisable to visit your local Revenue Office early (well before March 31) with all relevant documents to clarify your obligations and, if required, to file your return.

---

What Retired Expats Should Do

1. Confirm Your Tax Liability:

   • If your only funds are non-assessable (e.g., savings accumulated prior to 2023), clarify with the Revenue Office whether you need to file.
   • If you receive income (e.g., pensions or investment returns), check whether it qualifies as assessable income in Thailand.

2. Attempt to Obtain a TIN:

   • Visit your local Revenue Office with supporting documents (passport, proof of residence, etc.) to request a TIN.
   • Explain your intent to comply with Thai tax law as a tax resident.

3. Engage a Local Accountant:

   • If language or process barriers arise, consider hiring a Thai accountant experienced in expat tax issues. They can advise on your status and help file your tax return.

4. Document Everything:

   • Keep meticulous records of any funds remitted to Thailand, distinguishing between non-assessable and assessable income.

---

Summary

Your next step should be to visit your local Revenue Office for guidance specific to your situation. If they confirm you have no tax filing obligations due to non-assessable income, ensure you document this confirmation. Engaging an accountant can also help navigate the process and avoid any missteps. Demonstrating goodwill and effort to comply will generally be viewed favorably by Thai authorities.

 

 

[4myr]

this is what the TRD boss posted on the Thai section of the RD website:

 

 

[The Cyclist]

21 minutes ago, Presnock said:

Thailand only joined on FACTA recently, although it has been around since 2014 I believe, you can query FACTA and Thailand and it will advise of the exact joining year.  That website also says your local bank should advise you of their working with FACTA.

 

As a non American, Thailand and FATCA is not my concern.

 

What is my concern, is staying on the correct side of the Thai tax man, especially any nuances pertaining to my local tax office.

[Sheryl]

50 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

This is where the confusion comes from.

 

I read that as file if above those thresholds. And then batter out with the TRD what is exempt income, apply TEDA's and  tax credits etc.

 

A DTA might exempt you from paying tax on certain sources of income, it does not exempt you from filing a tax return.

There is no way to "batter out" with RD what income is non-assessable.

 

As far as I can determine, non-assessable income should simply not be declared. They don't want to see it, and declaring it will only cause confusion.

 

To my reading,  if assessable income is below those thresholds you are not required to file.

 

If they ever change the forms to allow declaration of non-assessable income that will be another matter but I doubt this will happen.

[jwest10]

8 minutes ago, 4myr said:

this is what the TRD boss posted on the Thai section of the RD website:

 

 

No Tin just pink card and not accepted???

[Presnock]

17 minutes ago, Presnock said:

well, I never call them, I just access the web page and read....

for 4myr: I checked the trd web site in English - the number one requirement to file for taxes in Thail;and is obtaining a tax ID number in order to do that - the number one requirement is "within 60 days of Having ASSESSABLE income" if one does not have assessable income then one cannot get a tax ID number unless one fights the TRD office!  

[Sheryl]

2 minutes ago, Presnock said:

for 4myr: I checked the trd web site in English - the number one requirement to file for taxes in Thail;and is obtaining a tax ID number in order to do that - the number one requirement is "within 60 days of Having ASSESSABLE income" if one does not have assessable income then one cannot get a tax ID number unless one fights the TRD office!  

Not always the case, some TRD offices readily provide TIN to anyone who asks.

 

But of course if one is not going to file due to having no assessable income (or only income below the required filing threshold) then no need for a TIN.

[Presnock]

6 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

There is no way to "batter out" with RD what income is non-assessable.

 

As far as I can determine, non-assessable income should simply not be declared. They don't want to see it, and declaring it will only cause confusion.

 

To my reading,  if assessable income is below those thresholds you are not required to file.

 

If they ever change the forms to allow declaration of non-assessable income that will be another matter but I doubt this will happen.

AMEN!  exactly!  in order to dile you must have a thai tax ID:  the first requirement according to the TRD instructions is that one must obtain a tax ID number "within 60 days of having (NOW READ THIS) ASSESSABLE income"  I rest my case until they change the rules - and letting us know - so I really don't think I will be still alive whenever they get around to advising us of any changes, especially since the changes are only going to be amendments to the laws and still have to be approved by the parliament - too many are tax payers so who knows if that will ever happen.!

[Presnock]

1 minute ago, Sheryl said:

Not always the case, some TRD offices readily provide TIN to anyone who asks.

 

But of course if one is not going to file due to having no assessable income (or only income below the required filing threshold) then no need for a TIN.

Hey someone who understands English too.  I am sure that whoever wrote all those instructions sure did not wish to have their agents going through millions of tax forms with no taxes owed whatsoever.  Have a great day!

[oldcpu]

12 minutes ago, Presnock said:

for 4myr: I checked the trd web site in English - the number one requirement to file for taxes in Thail;and is obtaining a tax ID number in order to do that - the number one requirement is "within 60 days of Having ASSESSABLE income" if one does not have assessable income then one cannot get a tax ID number unless one fights the TRD office!  

 

In regards to assessable income, and pondering the previous (tax year-2023 and earlier) Thailand tax returns, I took another look at the tax form Por.Ngor.Dor.91.  (Again , 2024 tax year form is NOT available best that I can find).

 

When I look at the current (2023 and earlier) Por.Ngor.Dor.91 it has a 'section-B' where 'exempted income' is listed.

 

Then the amount from that 'section-B' (exempted income) is then re-entered in section-A (where it is subtracted from one's salaries, wages, pensions).  

 

I note that not in section-B, nor in anywhere else, does the tax form list income exempt from before 1-Jan-2024 (ie exempt per PAW-161), nor income exempt due to DTAs, nor income exempt due to LTR visa (by Royal Decree).  There is no place to list such exemptions.

 

So I then speculate (where 'speculation' is the 'operative word') ..  if the 2024 Por.Ngor.Dor.91, when it comes out for 2024 tax year is similar to previous years, I can't help but believe that such income (ie from before 1-Jan-2024, due to DTAs, and due to LTR) could be considered as not-assessable income, and hence if not assessable then it is not to be reported on the Por.Ngor.Dor.91 tax return document. 

 

There is simply NO obvious place on the tax return form to list these exemptions.  From this I again speculate, that if a person has no other assessable income, then it makes no sense to submit a Thai tax return.

 

A number of forum users have been stating such, and I believe the 'old' (2023 and earlier) tax forms may indeed support such a view.

 

Still , the 2024 form is not yet out, so I guess we will need to wait and see.  I am just as curious as everyone else.

[Presnock]

1 minute ago, oldcpu said:

 

In regards to assessable income, and pondering the previous (tax year-2023 and earlier) Thailand tax returns, I took another look at the tax form Por.Ngor.Dor.91.  (Again , 2024 tax year form is NOT available best that I can find).

 

When I look at the current (2023 and earlier) Por.Ngor.Dor.91 it has a 'section-B' where 'exempted income' is listed.

 

Then the amount from that 'section-B' (exempted income) is then re-entered in section-A (where it is subtracted from one's salaries, wages, pensions).  

 

I note that not in section-B, nor in anywhere else, does the tax form list income exempt from before 1-Jan-2024 (ie exempt per PAW-161), nor income exempt due to DTAs, nor income exempt due to LTR visa (by Royal Decree).  There is no place to list such exemptions.

 

So I then speculate (where 'speculation' is the 'operative word') ..  if the 2024 Por.Ngor.Dor.91, when it comes out for 2024 tax year is similar to previous years, I can't help but believe that such income (ie from before 1-Jan-2024, due to DTAs, and due to LTR) could be considered as not-assessable income, and hence if not assessable then not to be reported on the Por.Ngor.Dor.91 tax return document. 

 

There is simply obvious place on the tax return form to list these exemptions.  From this I again speculate, that if a person has no other assessable income, then it makes no sense to submit a Thai tax return.

 

A number of forum users have been stating such, and I believe the 'old' (2023 and earlier) tax forms may indeed support such a view.

 

Still , the 2024 form is not yet out, so I guess we will need to wait and see.  I am just as curious as everyone else.

totally agree!  just like fighting some trd local office to get a tax ID when one will LIKE IN MY CASE NEVER repeat NEVER have assessable income - US govt civil service pension (with documents proving same) and LTR unless they at some time in the next 9.5 years decide that foreign income is no longer exempt by royal decree.

[DaRoadrunner]

Can't be arsed to do it. They'll have to come get me. How long before they link this to our visa extension? Then it's bye bye Thailand

[digger70]

On 1/4/2025 at 4:02 AM, anchadian said:

Revenue Department urges tax residents in Thailand to file 2024 returns by March 31

Yea Right . Ain't gonna happen.

[oldcpu]

9 minutes ago, Presnock said:

AMEN!  exactly!  in order to dile you must have a thai tax ID:  the first requirement according to the TRD instructions is that one must obtain a tax ID number "within 60 days of having (NOW READ THIS) ASSESSABLE income"

 

On the topic of trying to get a Thai Tax-ID, I note this page (Thai language) for filing an on-line tax return, where in the upper right corner is a 'green box' which one clicks on to "apply for membership" which I assume means "apply for a tax-ID".

 

https://efiling.rd.go.th/rd-efiling-web/register

 

I suspect (but not sure) that might the the 'box' my wife clicked on when she attempted to obtain a tax-ID for myself.  I posted on this previous and in the end after applying (uploading various info , such as passport copy, pink-ID copy) the Phuket RD branch phoned our home, and advised I did not qualify for a Thai TIN (as I was not bringing in any income into Thailand at present and because I have no Thai income). ... 

 

I am not 100% certain that is how my wife applied for the TIN, ... she is currently out of country traveling with some friend ... but i suspect that is how she made the online TIN application.

 

At present, per the Phuket Thai RD officials advise (to myself via my wife) I don't plan to file a 2024 tax return for Thailand (I will file such to Canada), ... but I do hope to watch and monitor how this all turns out

 

Best wishes to all on this topic.

.

[Sheryl]

7 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

In regards to assessable income, and pondering the previous (tax year-2023 and earlier) Thailand tax returns, I took another look at the tax form Por.Ngor.Dor.91.  (Again , 2024 tax year form is NOT available best that I can find).

 

When I look at the current (2023 and earlier) Por.Ngor.Dor.91 it has a 'section-B' where 'exempted income' is listed.

 

Then the amount from that 'section-B' (exempted income) is then re-entered in section-A (where it is subtracted from one's salaries, wages, pensions).  

 

I note that not in section-B, nor in anywhere else, does the tax form list income exempt from before 1-Jan-2024 (ie exempt per PAW-161), nor income exempt due to DTAs, nor income exempt due to LTR visa (by Royal Decree).  There is no place to list such exemptions.

 

So I then speculate (where 'speculation' is the 'operative word') ..  if the 2024 Por.Ngor.Dor.91, when it comes out for 2024 tax year is similar to previous years, I can't help but believe that such income (ie from before 1-Jan-2024, due to DTAs, and due to LTR) could be considered as not-assessable income, and hence if not assessable then it is not to be reported on the Por.Ngor.Dor.91 tax return document. 

 

There is simply NO obvious place on the tax return form to list these exemptions.  From this I again speculate, that if a person has no other assessable income, then it makes no sense to submit a Thai tax return.

 

 

 

The exemptions listed have nothing to do with income that is non-assessable. They are just exemptions (or, to use another term, deductions) to assessable income. Most tax codes allow various such exemptions/deductions  to income prior to calculating tax.

 

PND91 is used only if there is Thai sourced income, otherwise use PND90.

[oldcpu]

3 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

On the topic of trying to get a Thai Tax-ID, I note this page (Thai language) for filing an on-line tax return, where in the upper right corner is a 'green box' which one clicks on to "apply for membership" which I assume means "apply for a tax-ID".

 

https://efiling.rd.go.th/rd-efiling-web/register

 

 

I just looked again at that website - and on 2nd thought, I am not convinced that is the website my wife went to in order to apply for a TIN form myself.  Likely I will need to wait until she returns home.

[Rampant Rabbit]

On 1/5/2025 at 3:41 PM, NoDisplayName said:

TRD officer can argue, and likely be backed up by actual law

and if  not can just make up any law they like and get back up from their  boss.

[Presnock]

12 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

In regards to assessable income, and pondering the previous (tax year-2023 and earlier) Thailand tax returns, I took another look at the tax form Por.Ngor.Dor.91.  (Again , 2024 tax year form is NOT available best that I can find).

 

When I look at the current (2023 and earlier) Por.Ngor.Dor.91 it has a 'section-B' where 'exempted income' is listed.

 

Then the amount from that 'section-B' (exempted income) is then re-entered in section-A (where it is subtracted from one's salaries, wages, pensions).  

 

I note that not in section-B, nor in anywhere else, does the tax form list income exempt from before 1-Jan-2024 (ie exempt per PAW-161), nor income exempt due to DTAs, nor income exempt due to LTR visa (by Royal Decree).  There is no place to list such exemptions.

 

So I then speculate (where 'speculation' is the 'operative word') ..  if the 2024 Por.Ngor.Dor.91, when it comes out for 2024 tax year is similar to previous years, I can't help but believe that such income (ie from before 1-Jan-2024, due to DTAs, and due to LTR) could be considered as not-assessable income, and hence if not assessable then it is not to be reported on the Por.Ngor.Dor.91 tax return document. 

 

There is simply NO obvious place on the tax return form to list these exemptions.  From this I again speculate, that if a person has no other assessable income, then it makes no sense to submit a Thai tax return.

 

A number of forum users have been stating such, and I believe the 'old' (2023 and earlier) tax forms may indeed support such a view.

 

Still , the 2024 form is not yet out, so I guess we will need to wait and see.  I am just as curious as everyone else.

Unless you have humongous lungs and a deep deep sea diver, don't even try to hold your breath until some guidance comes out from Pitai & company.  Or, maybe they did plan and have guidance and later forms thinking that the parliament was going to pass the new tax scheme in conjunction with the coprorate tax bill just passed.  Seems several other news groups were told that it would pass together at the time that it was being separated and only the corporate tax bill passed.

[NoDisplayName]

5 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

So a bit of a conversation ensues and whether the lights came on and she finally grasped it, or she now wanted rid of me I have no way of knowing.

 

At the point when the 5W bulb became energized, the lady in a tax office uniform had two options:

 

1.  Realize she made a misteak, admit it honestly, correct it.

2.  Realize she made a misteak, cover it up, lie.

 

Taxes are confusing and stressful enough in our own countries, but now we've got a poorly-designed system with not well thought out legislation, incorrectly translated, haphazardly enforced by uneducated little wanna-be tyrants unable to admit their failings.

[Presnock]

On 1/4/2025 at 7:47 PM, Presnock said:

 

From what I have read, but also note I am not a tax expert by any means but if one does not have any ASSESSABLE income then there is no requirement to file nor get a tax ID number.  That is my opinion and I am sticking to it and not filing.  I realize that the TRD will probably contact me to advise them of the source of my monies and show that I do have an LTR visa unless they get that from immigration prior to contacting me.  But, best of luck to all in your endeavors this tax season...I do believe the worldwide income bit will continue to fester as it seems some powerful people don't like it.

I do believe that the TRD has to authorize that 13-digit number for actual tax ID but since I will never have one anyway I only know what some folks here say and we know how that goes.

[oldcpu]

10 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

The exemptions listed have nothing to do with income that is non-assessable. They are just exemptions (or, to use another term, deductions) to assessable income. Most tax codes allow various such exemptions/deductions  to income prior to calculating tax.

 

PND91 is used only if there is Thai sourced income, otherwise use PND90.

 

I hear you ...   but I find the wording in Thai documents can be less than clear.

 

Take the LTR visa for example.  The Royal Decree for the LTR-WP visa holders states that foreign assessable income is tax exempt.  The Royal Decree clearly refers to 'assessable income' and then it states such is 'tax exempt'.  Yet there is no place on the 2023 tax form for such tax exempt assessable income.

 

So if exemptions have nothing to do with income that is not-assessable, why does the Royal Decree refer to assessable income and state it is tax exempt.

 

I believe what we see is an inconsistency in terminology , making it difficult to be definitive when referring to such terms.

 

< sigh >

 

Anyway - all the best - and I hope with time this will be very clear to all and that impacts on most will be little to none (that is a hope - not a prediction).

 

 

 

[jwest10]

13 minutes ago, DaRoadrunner said:

Can't be arsed to do it. They'll have to come get me. How long before they link this to our visa extension? Then it's bye bye Thailand

this will not happen but nothing at Immigration and my next extensiom later on this month but who knows in the future?

[The Cyclist]

11 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

At the point when the 5W bulb became energized, the lady in a tax office uniform had two options:

 

1.  Realize she made a misteak, admit it honestly, correct it.

2.  Realize she made a misteak, cover it up, lie.

 

Entirely possible

 

So my next plan might be to complete a PND 91

 

boxes 1,2 with the same figures

 

Boxes 17,19 and 20 with a zero and ask for a TIN to file this, and see what the small office says.

 

At least I'll have a signed and dated PND 91 to also attach to my annual bank statement and P60

[Presnock]

5 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

I hear you ...   but I find the wording in Thai documents can be less than clear.

 

Take the LTR visa for example.  The Royal Decree for the LTR-WP visa holders states that foreign assessable income is tax exempt.  The Royal Decree clearly refers to 'assessable income' and then it states such is 'tax exempt'.  Yet there is no place on the 2023 tax form for such tax exempt assessable income.

 

So if exemptions have nothing to do with income that is not-assessable, why does the Royal Decree refer to assessable income and state it is tax exempt.

 

I believe what we see is an inconsistency in terminology , making it difficult to be definitive when referring to such terms.

 

< sigh >

 

Anyway - all the best - and I hope with time this will be very clear to all and that impacts on most will be little to none (that is a hope - not a prediction).

 

 

 

Yeah the real problem being with the TRD - then the BOI benefit of no tax on foreign income, exempting such income so it actually doesn't become assessable or if they do want to do that way, then they need to amend the instructions on the filing forms and correctly id'g assessable income that is exempt by what means.  This of course is logical to us but to the trd officials I think requires too many brain cells to decipher it easily....just wait until new tax forms come out, then immediately followed by the world wide income tax scheme really screwing up all the trd officials around the country.

[JimGant]

4 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

The difference is, I dont care about 10 different tax offices. I care what my local tax office has to say

What difference would that make, if you file electronically? Only if your local tax office is in compliance with the algorithms at the central TRD office -- would you be well served. But, good chance they don't have a solid grasp of all that's in those algorithms -- and could give you bad advice. No, best keep your own counsel on what's needed for filing -- or if you feel incompetent, hire an agent.

[chiang mai]

1 hour ago, bugger bognor said:

Since this story broke the fear mongering and hysteria has spread throughout the expat community only the charlatans YouTubers and foreign tax companies here have profited from the narrative. The media have only added fuel to the fire, The simple facts are if any of this was true about getting a Tn and submitting a tax return I mean all expats! We would have been informed shortly after the memo went out of our responsibilitys every immigration office would have an advertising campaign all online reporting would have a banner referring to a website with all the new criteria in multiple languages! The Thai revenue department would have recruited hundreds nationally if not thousands of extra staff experts in every language and every country in the world tax laws to cope with the influx of foreign tax returns this imo would take decades not only to implement also to put into law, ask yourself why you have not been directly informed by immigration via your 90 day reports ! The reason is simple it's not going to happen maybe they will target ultra rich foreigners with offshore companies bringing in large amounts of revenue! That I could believe they could target .The work and effort and staffing to force all expats through the Thai system would not be cost effective be extremely time consuming and very bad for future foreign investment in property and businesses locating here! At the end of the day common sense will prevail it's always about the money not your personal feelings TIT relax you've nothing to worry about 

 

You don't understand how things work in Thailand BB, you just don't.

[jwest10]

6 minutes ago, Presnock said:

Yeah the real problem being with the TRD - then the BOI benefit of no tax on foreign income, exempting such income so it actually doesn't become assessable or if they do want to do that way, then they need to amend the instructions on the filing forms and correctly id'g assessable income that is exempt by what means.  This of course is logical to us but to the trd officials I think requires too many brain cells to decipher it easily....just wait until new tax forms come out, then immediately followed by the world wide income tax scheme really screwing up all the trd officials around the country.

Yes, still no forms 90 and 91 and the Income Exemption one too and this whole issue is getting ridiculous now and frankly appalled with it.

[Presnock]

30 minutes ago, DaRoadrunner said:

Can't be arsed to do it. They'll have to come get me. How long before they link this to our visa extension? Then it's bye bye Thailand

well, if one reads the informaion that they have on their web page, it talks in several paragraphs about the tax paid document needed to depart the country.  They could just say, "hey, it is in all our instructions" so folks cannot really say they don't know what they are talking about.  But of course, that same document could be used for extension of stay also.  

[The Cyclist]

6 minutes ago, JimGant said:

What difference would that make, if you file electronically?

 

I'll simply refer you to your previous comment

 

Quote

 A clever fellow would assume 

 

How do you file electronically without a TIN ?
 

A clever fellow knows when to zip it and stop making a fool of themselves.

[Liquorice]

41 minutes ago, DaRoadrunner said:

Can't be arsed to do it. They'll have to come get me. How long before they link this to our visa extension? Then it's bye bye Thailand

And if they have to come get you, the penalties are 200,000 BHT fine, 1 year imprisonment, or both - then you can leave Thailand.