4M baht taxable?

[Barney13]

I want to remit 4M baht from my UK personal pension to my wife's Thai bank account via wise. Technically when this cash crosses the 'border' it's my remittance, therefore tax to be paid. I also understand that I can 'gift' my wife up to 20M baht per year tax free. Does this mean tax free for her only? Any clarification/help with this appreciated.

[Jingthing]

My understanding is excludable from Thai tax for both.

However, don't trust what you hear on this forum.

At that level, seek the advise of a Thai tax professional. 

[CharlieH]

Finance Forum

[Liverpool Lou]

5 minutes ago, Barney13 said:

I also understand that I can 'gift' my wife up to 20M baht per year tax free. Does this mean tax free for her only?

That tax-free status applies only to the recipient of the gift. i.e. your wife,   the donor spouse doesn't get taxed on the gift.   

Remitting funds into the country from overseas is a completely different matter.  

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

That tax-free status applies only to the recipient of the gift. i.e. your wife,   the donor spouse doesn't get taxed on the gift.   

Remitting funds into the country from overseas is a completely different matter.  

If I understood him correctly, he's remitting from a foreign account in his name directly to a Thai account in his wife's name. I think he's excluded from tax in the case. If it hit his named account in Thailand for one minute, then moved to his wife's account, then taxable.

[chiang mai]

10 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

My understanding is excludable from Thai tax for both.

However, don't trust what you hear on this forum.

At that level, seek the advise of a Thai tax professional. 

NO! Nowhere is it said in the TRD Code that there is a TEDA for the giver of the gift!

 

The problem with this topic in this forum now is the extent to which other posters try and recite partial  knowledge incorrectly, correcting those mistakes take more time than answering new questions..

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, chiang mai said:

NO! Nowhere is it said in the TRD Code that there is a TEDA for the giver of the gift!

 

The problem with this topic in this forum now is the extent to which other posters try and recite partial  knowledge incorrectly, correcting those mistakes take more time than answering new questions..

He should seek advice outside this forum. I stand by my understanding of the situation but for such sums it would be pure folly for him to take any action without professional guidance.

[chiang mai]

The OP may wish to read the pinned guide which has information on this topic. Whilst not necessarily complete it does present a comprehensive view of the issue.

 

 

[scubascuba3]

Presumably the 4m is the 25% tax free element? would be crazy to pull out the taxed part

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

He should seek advice outside this forum. I stand by my understanding of the situation but for such sums it would be pure folly for him to take any action without professional guidance.

There is no question that in the case of Gift Tax, anyone should seek expert advice for a Thai CPA or similar, that however is not the point.

[Jingthing]

Just now, chiang mai said:

There is no question that in the case of Gift Tax, anyone should seek expert advice for a Thai CPA or similar, that however is not the point.

It kind of is the point in a case like this.

[chiang mai]

Just now, Jingthing said:

It kind of is the point in a case like this.

No JT, the point is that you, by your own admissions, know nothing about tax, finance or accounting. That being the case and having been so heavily advised yourself in this forum, why are you trying to answer complex tax questions that are so blatantly incorrect.

[Jingthing]

Just now, chiang mai said:

No JT, the point is that you, by your own admissions, know nothing about tax, finance or accounting. That being the case and having been so heavily advised yourself in this forum, why are you trying to answer complex tax questions that are so blatantly incorrect.

I have some knowledge now but I don't think the OP should listen to EITHER of us and it would be stupid to do so. So again in this case the advice that we both agree with to seek professional advise TOTALLY is the point here.

[chiang mai]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I have some knowledge now but I don't think the OP should listen to EITHER of us and it would be stupid to do so. So again in this case the advice that we both agree with to seek professional advise TOTALLY is the point here.

Show me where the TRD Code supports your opinion,

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/38306.html

https://sherrings.com/gift-tax-law-in-thailand.html

https://www.herrera-partners.com/2024/01/10/on-gift-tax-and-properties-in-thailand/

https://thailand.acclime.com/guides/gift-tax/

https://www.expattaxthailand.com/gift-tax-2024/

 

 

[Liverpool Lou]

15 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

If I understood him correctly, he's remitting from a foreign account in his name directly to a Thai account in his wife's name. I think he's excluded from tax in the case. If it hit his named account in Thailand for one minute, then moved to his wife's account, then taxable.

I agree but he did ask two separate questions...

"I want to remit 4M baht from my UK personal pension to my wife's Thai bank account via wise. Technically when this cash crosses the 'border' it's my remittance, therefore tax to be paid" ...

 

I also understand that I can 'gift' my wife up to 20M baht per year tax free".

[Jingthing]

Just now, Liverpool Lou said:

I agree but he did ask two separate questions...

"I want to remit 4M baht from my UK personal pension to my wife's Thai bank account via wise. Technically when this cash crosses the 'border' it's my remittance, therefore tax to be paid" ...

 

I also understand that I can 'gift' my wife up to 20M baht per year tax free".

Oh, I do see the distinction now as far as using Wise is concerned.

That might represent what not to do -- move it Thailand in your name, then send to wife.

Sorry I didn't pick up that detail. That was unwise (ha ha). 

[Barney13]

Thanks for replies, have read the pinned guide which is clear as mud. I have 4 months in which to monitor reports of last years remits of a similar nature. I will probably go see a lawyer in a couple of months. TRD needs to detail a procedure for gifts, thanks again guys.

[saintdomingo]

28 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

The OP may wish to read the pinned guide which has information on this topic. Whilst not necessarily complete it does present a comprehensive view of the issue.

 

 

Is there another 190,000 allowance for wife over 65.

[chiang mai]

5 minutes ago, saintdomingo said:

Is there another 190,000 allowance for wife over 65.

Yes, if filing separtely.

[anrcaccount]

43 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

55 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

My understanding is excludable from Thai tax for both.

However, don't trust what you hear on this forum.

At that level, seek the advise of a Thai tax professional. 

NO! Nowhere is it said in the TRD Code that there is a TEDA for the giver of the gift!

 

The problem with this topic in this forum now is the extent to which other posters try and recite partial  knowledge incorrectly, correcting those mistakes take more time than answering new questions..

 

Yes, in this case, it's partial knowledge that directly contradicts professional advice received and reported by other members.

 

Based on professional advice received  and reported by others - it's possible, with the right structure, to do exactly what the OP proposed, with no Thai tax obligation for either the giver of the gift, or the recipient. 

 

TEDA is irrelevant. The giver need not declare anything, has no liability as they did not receive the funds, and the receiver has no tax liability, as the funds received were a gift.  

 

See page 1 of this thread about halfway down:

 

 

 

[Ben Zioner]

OP are you in Thailand? Or are you going to reside less than 180 days in 2025? 

 

If that's so you won't be resident for taxation this year, so remit but make some document (notarised) that proves that these 4M are a donation to your wife.

 

 

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

 

Yes, in this case, it's partial knowledge that directly contradicts professional advice received and reported by other members.

 

Based on professional advice received  and reported by others - it's possible, with the right structure, to do exactly what the OP proposed, with no Thai tax obligation for either the giver of the gift, or the recipient. 

 

TEDA is irrelevant. The giver need not declare anything, has no liability as they did not receive the funds, and the receiver has no tax liability, as the funds received were a gift.  

 

See page 1 of this thread about halfway down:

 

 

 

But what do you think about the Wise angle?

If it's true that funds are hitting the forienger's Wise account "in" Thailand before going to the wife, isn't that the same as getting the remittance himself first?

[chiang mai]

8 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

 

Yes, in this case, it's partial knowledge that directly contradicts professional advice received and reported by other members.

 

Based on professional advice received  and reported by others - it's possible, with the right structure, to do exactly what the OP proposed, with no Thai tax obligation for either the giver of the gift, or the recipient. 

 

TEDA is irrelevant. The giver need not declare anything, has no liability as they did not receive the funds, and the receiver has no tax liability, as the funds received were a gift.  

 

See page 1 of this thread about halfway down:

 

 

 

Complete distortion and nonsense. The op lives in Thailand with his wife, he remits his pension income to his wife, he cannot escape assessment on that income by gifting it to others. If he is not Thai tax resident, the picture changes, as it does if the gift is made overseas, but not using the parameters he has set on the op.

[Sheryl]

15 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

But what do you think about the Wise angle?

If it's true that funds are hitting the forienger's Wise account "in" Thailand before going to the wife, isn't that the same as getting the remittance himself first?

This part is unclear to me. The way he wrote it, sounds like he will remit it from his UK account via Wise directly into his wife's Thai account, never passing through his own Thai account.

 

If so then I would think it is  her remittance as she is the sole and immediate recipient.

 

Now, if it is in fact going to have to go first into his account in Thailand, a whole different matter and it is his remittance and taxable unless its is from a government pension (non-assessable in Thailand per UK-Thai DTA) or from savings accrued in UK prior to 2024.

[Barney13]

15 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

OP are you in Thailand? Or are you going to reside less than 180 days in 2025? 

 

If that's so you won't be resident for taxation this year, so remit but make some document (notarised) that proves that these 4M are a donation to your wife.

 

 

The tax liability will determine how many days in Thailand, I am hoping to stay here. I'm sure in the past people have notorized with a lawyer, but these days I want to be 100% sure about all this. Odds are that I'll be going out for a few months, not risking it.

[Airalee]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

If I understood him correctly, he's remitting from a foreign account in his name directly to a Thai account in his wife's name. I think he's excluded from tax in the case. If it hit his named account in Thailand for one minute, then moved to his wife's account, then taxable.

But what if he is doing so in order to circumvent the taxes and then subsequently live off that “gift”.

 

Sounds like an interesting loophole but I wouldn’t be surprised if it raises some flags for the TRD.

[anrcaccount]

14 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Complete distortion and nonsense. The op lives in Thailand with his wife, he remits his pension income to his wife, he cannot escape assessment on that income by gifting it to others. If he is not Thai tax resident, the picture changes, as it does if the gift is made overseas, but not using the parameters he has set on the op.

 

Based on the professional advice received and shared by another member, it's absolutely possible, using the parameters the OP outlined. 

 

Unless you have differing professional / official sourced advice to share, I'd suggest this is the best source available. 

 

Here is the link to  the thread again, if unclear:

 

 

[chiang mai]

The op is the one who remits the income, remitting it to a third party doesn't make it suddenly not assessable 

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

 

Based on the professional advice received and shared by another member, it's absolutely possible, using the parameters the OP outlined. 

 

Unless you have differing professional / official sourced advice to share, I'd suggest this is the best source available. 

 

Here is the link to  the thread again, if unclear:

 

 

I don't care what is said in another thread, prove it to using the links I supplied earlier, or othe TRD sources.

[Jingthing]

11 minutes ago, Airalee said:

But what if he is doing so in order to circumvent the taxes and then subsequently live off that “gift”.

 

Sounds like an interesting loophole but I wouldn’t be surprised if it raises some flags for the TRD.

My understanding is that would be irrelevant IF the wife is actually paying for living expenses for both. If she wants to pay the rent, make car payments, pay for dinner, why not.