Thai tax tangle: Expats warned of new rules on overseas income

[Card]

10 minutes ago, mran66 said:

 

When did Phils change to that? 

No idea but why don't u just Google it?

[Happy happy]

I recently consulted a local tax specialist who says that income received in 2025 if not "assessable income" does not require a tax return,

[Baba Naba]

10 hours ago, Celsius said:

off to get my TIN.

 

brb

They havent used tin in over 50 years. They use aluminum now.... 😁

[PomPolo]

3 minutes ago, Card said:

No idea but why don't u just Google it?

I have a solution for everyone that I am going to seriously contemplate myself.
Firstly I believe the taxation rules only apply in Thailand if you spend more than 180 days a year in the country, Philippines is 183.  1/2 and 1/2 is the way forward plus you also don't get too bored of one place.
My tax consultancy is much cheaper than that guy in Pattaya or @Card please feel free to contact me on 0800 NOMORETAX 555.
 

In the Philippines, the taxation rules for foreigners transferring money from their own country depend on several factors, such as the purpose of the transfer, the nature of the income, and whether the foreigner is considered a resident or non-resident for tax purposes. Here's a breakdown of key points:

---

1. Residency Status

• Resident Aliens: Foreigners who reside in the Philippines and have stayed in the country for at least 183 days within a calendar year are taxed on their Philippine-sourced income.
• Non-Resident Aliens: Foreigners who do not meet the residency requirement are generally taxed only on income earned within the Philippines.

[Thingamabob]

36 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

I'm forever reading about the 'new rules' on this forum. The fact is, that as far as us retired expats are concerned, there are no 'new rules'. In theory we have always been liable to taxation, however it's clear that the TRD have, thus far respected the terms of our DTAs and left us to get on with our lives. Plus the bonus of having us bring lots of extra money into the economy and in many cases supporting families as well.

 

IMO This situation has not been created by TRD, it's come about by certain meddling amateur tax advisors on this forum (and we all know who they are) and greedy professional tax advisors looking to make a killing.

 

I do not believe it's a case of not been thought out properly. I don't think it was even contemplated in the first place. 

There are indeed strong rumours that it is foreign tax advisers who are trying to sell tougher tax regulations to the TRD in order to create additional business for themselves from concerned expats. 

[anrcaccount]

16 minutes ago, atpeace said:

27 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

 

Let's guess, did you take your advice from:

 

A) a slick presented, foreigner fronted 'expat' tax specialist that sprung up less than 18 months ago?

 

Or

 

B) did you take it from an established firm that has actually had experience filing Thai taxes , and dealing with the TRD, over many years?

 

 

 

 

Expand  

Not going to waste my time replying other than advising you to reread prior threads going back years with your same argument above and "no" real knowledge has been gained.   As I mentioned prior - carry on for the many AN members that find these threads hilarious.  

 

Don't worry, I agree with you, it's the other poster who is parroting 'expat' tax advice from a foreigner fronted firm that only sprung up 18 months ago.........

 

The only "real" knowledge has been shared by multiple members now,  who have gone to their local TRD, and been sent home packing.

 

With the real world status quo being - TRD isn't interested in taxation of foreigners remitted funds. 

 

 

 

 

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, Thingamabob said:

The Pattaya City Expat Club now join a long list of expat groups in Thailand promoting not the best interests of foreigners living  in Thailand, but trying to advance the business of fringe legal tax advisers operating here. Should you feel the need to discuss tax issues best to do so directly with your local TRD office. 

Exactly.

Back in 2014 Immigration decided  to take a hard line on border runs, this is a comment made at the time.

 

"The changes have caused widespread confusion among foreigners in Thailand with specialist websites such as Thai Visa running lengthy updates on them. Some posters on the site's forum claim they are already being denied visas at some northern checkpoints, despite Pol Lt Gen Pharnu saying the crackdown will not come into effect until Aug 12."

Please credit and share this article with others using this link: https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/410342/border-insecurity-mounts-as-tourist-visa-abuse-is-targeted. View our policies at http://goo.gl/9HgTd and http://goo.gl/ou6Ip. © Bangkok Post PCL. All rights reserved.

 

Within days, not weeks or months, the government asked immigration to take a more flexible approach and the 30 day extension came about.

The RD have only clarified how the existing rules should be interpreted but there are those with a vested interest in scaremongering and should be ignored. Those that have a tax liability should already be paying and highly likely nothing will change for those who haven't.

[potless]

1 hour ago, Kerryd said:

Then deduct the 400k in pension income (assuming it's covered by a tax treaty), leaving you a Net Income of 800,000.
Assume you are married so you get the 120,000 deduction, leaving you with a Taxable Income of 680,000.

That amount would be taxed at the 25% rate giving you a tax bill of 170,000 baht.

The tax bill you cite is incorrect. The first 150,000 is zero rated. That leaves 530,000. The next 150,000 is taxed at 5% (7,500). That leaves 380,000. The next 200.000 is taxed at 10% (20,000). That leaves 180,000 taxed at 15% (27,000). A total of 54,500 baht.

[scorecard]

3 hours ago, Robert Tyrrell said:

If your Country has a DTA Agreement !!Or Double Taxation Agreement!! My Nation does not !! Double Taxation is Illegal in my Country Thailand 🇹🇭  🙂 You should be ashamed of yourselves the backbone of your economy EXPATS !!! Trying to double and triple Tax people SHAME !!! PEOPLE WORK HARD ALL THERE LIVES FOR GOVERNMENTS TO PLUNDER PEOPLES RETIREMENT MONIES !!! SHAME ON YOU !!! 

Just one point, Expats are NOT the backbone of the Thai economy. Yes some families get some financial support from expat husbands etc., but they are NOT the backbone of the economy. Many millions of Thais are in paid employment and they support their families. 

[Card]

6 minutes ago, PomPolo said:

I have a solution for everyone that I am going to seriously contemplate myself.
Firstly I believe the taxation rules only apply in Thailand if you spend more than 180 days a year in the country, Philippines is 183.  1/2 and 1/2 is the way forward plus you also don't get too bored of one place.
My tax consultancy is much cheaper than that guy in Pattaya or @Card please feel free to contact me on 0800 NOMORETAX 555.
 

In the Philippines, the taxation rules for foreigners transferring money from their own country depend on several factors, such as the purpose of the transfer, the nature of the income, and whether the foreigner is considered a resident or non-resident for tax purposes. Here's a breakdown of key points:

---

1. Residency Status

• Resident Aliens: Foreigners who reside in the Philippines and have stayed in the country for at least 183 days within a calendar year are taxed on their Philippine-sourced income.
• Non-Resident Aliens: Foreigners who do not meet the residency requirement are generally taxed only on income earned within the Philippines.

I stand corrected:

https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/philippines/individual/taxes-on-personal-income#:~:text=The Philippines taxes its resident citizens on their worldwide income.

 

[scorecard]

3 hours ago, Kenneth White said:

I have concerns about my Social Security income. This is the first time I have read the double tax agreement, which states that if I live in Thailand for more than 180 days, I am considered a resident and must fill out a tax form. It does not mention paying taxes. I am married to a beautiful Thai lady and have lived here for many years. However, each time I apply for my one-year visa extension, I have never been asked to fill out a tax form. I guess I should continue and not say anything; keep my mouth shut. 

 

I agree with most that this article is a bit ambiguous. 

 

There's been more reports / statement about general aspects of this subject but no real answer on the social security / old age pension aspects. 

 

 

[PomPolo]

Just now, Card said:

I stand corrected:

https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/philippines/individual/taxes-on-personal-income#:~:text=The Philippines taxes its resident citizens on their worldwide income.

 

Yeah TBH I am just messing with you I'm gonna see how it all pans out before I make any leaving or country hopping plans, but certainly not submitting any tax returns on my savings and money I have earnt elsewhere and already paid tax on in a different country.  Not even gonna give them my own countries TIN as none of their business.
If we did start paying tax I very much doubt that will give us any more rights i.e. healthcare, property ownership, residency, visa imp[rovements or treated any differently to we are now.

To add to my previous point if I spent half a year out of Thailand the bar and massage GDP would go down 50% they would be begging me to come back hahaha

[potless]

11 minutes ago, PomPolo said:

Firstly I believe the taxation rules only apply in Thailand if you spend more than 180 days a year in the country,

180 days makes you tax resident. 179 days or less to be non tax resident.

[scorecard]

4 minutes ago, potless said:

The tax bill you cite is incorrect. The first 150,000 is zero rated. That leaves 530,000. The next 150,000 is taxed at 5% (7,500). That leaves 380,000. The next 200.000 is taxed at 10% (20,000). That leaves 180,000 taxed at 15% (27,000). A total of 54,500 baht.

 

But there's other possible deductions / reductions on the total taxable income. In some cases health insurance costs / medical expenses can be claimed and reduce  the total taxable income.

 

Also, in some circumstances school fees can also be claimed for own children and in some circumstances for grandchildren. 

 

[gamb00ler]

1 hour ago, Card said:

Until.they bring in global assets tax this year or next. All they will need to renew will be an acknowledgement from the TRD that you have filed. Just like they do fir our bank balances now 

Thailand may decide to tax global income.  It is very unlikely they will tax assets.

[J Branche]

Recap

 

Pattaya Expat Club Holds meeting with advisors that do not have clear or concise Thai Tax Info on certain issues of concern.

 

A Revenue Department Official was Not present, was not invited, and No questions or statements where submitted to the Revenue Department for clarification. Or they did not respond prior to the meeting.

 

1. Por 162 allows Foreign Accessible Income earned prior to Jan 1 2024 to be remitted Tax Free. For the documents needed to support prior to Jan 1 2024 income, What documents are accepted as valid. (Bank Statement, Brokerage Statement, etc) What info is required on the document for it to be accepted. ( Bank Account Number, Foreign Country ID info besides name, a statement from Bank Branch regarding when the income was Accessible?)

 

2. Will New retirees be able to transfer in the 800,000 baht Retirement Visa requirement, one time,Tax free or at reduced tax rate after Jan 1, 2024.

 

3. For an inheritance that is remitted to Thailand will that portion of Foreign Inheritance be taxed at 5% as a descendant person? (Under the Thai Inheritance Tax Act) Page 6, Section 16

(This is for No Estate Tax, Inheritance, or other Taxed Amounts) (If no statements in a DTA Agreement)

 

4. With foreign income used to buy a condo, room, house in Thailand that is lived in by the retiree as a Thai Tax Resident be allowed a one time Tax Free, reduced percentage Tax rate allowance up to a certain amount?

 

(I've read there is no Revenue Department specific source but it has been generally practiced and understood that a Foreign Credit Card payment that converts to Thai Baht by Thai Tax Resident is Accessible Income and could be taxed)

New info: Credit Card purchases made in Thailand with payment converted to Thai Baht should be included and reported if you meet the requirement to File a Tax Return.

 

Glad to see we are wiser now and are not easy mislead, wait and want on facts from Government documents or sources.

[potless]

1 minute ago, scorecard said:

But there's other possible deductions / reductions on the total taxable income. In some cases health insurance costs / medical expenses can be claimed and reduce  the total taxable income.

 

Also, in some circumstances school fees can also be claimed for own children and in some circumstances for grandchildren. 

Thats right. I was using the figures quoted in Kerrys simplified example purely to demonstrate how calculations on assessable income should be made.

[zepplin]

15 hours ago, MikeandDow said:

They will have to be knocking on my door before i fill out any of there BS

There is absolutely 0 chance the gov here has enough qualified tax agents that speak 30 languages, that know when any money remitted into Thailand was earned, and the complex tax treaties between the different countries! 
they can knock on my door too, but they won’t when they see 2 big pit bulls staring at them!

it’s as clear as mud, so typical here… 

[Card]

17 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

 

Don't worry, I agree with you, it's the other poster who is parroting 'expat' tax advice from a foreigner fronted firm that only sprung up 18 months ago.........

 

The only "real" knowledge has been shared by multiple members now,  who have gone to their local TRD, and been sent home packing.

 

With the real world status quo being - TRD isn't interested in taxation of foreigners remitted funds. 

 

 

 

 

I went to the trouble of sharing my source with you and all you give in return is a sneering remark about parroting. Don't ask me again.

[Ben Zioner]

13 hours ago, Briggsy said:

Currently these all seem very unlikely.

 

Based on what?

[zepplin]

15 hours ago, Airalee said:

Clear as mud

 

So then what if you pay in dollars?  I can choose baht or USD at my hospital.

 

Again…clear as mud

 

Ok….so the person offering his advice is essentially saying “do your own homework”

 

Why hire him?   Makes no sense.

Perhaps Carden should have cleared that up then?  
 

The professional didn’t think of doing some legwork to find out more?

 

Some professional 🙄
 

Clear as mud.

 

 

 

 

I certainly wouldn’t hire these guys.

If they plan to tax money coming in to buy Thai real estate, then that’s the death of that sector! 

[Card]

2 minutes ago, zepplin said:

There is absolutely 0 chance the gov here has enough qualified tax agents that speak 30 languages, that know when any money remitted into Thailand was earned, and the complex tax treaties between the different countries! 
they can knock on my door too, but they won’t when they see 2 big pit bulls staring at them!

it’s as clear as mud, so typical here… 

They won't knock on your door or speak in fireign languages. Eventually you will be scurrying fir a TIN and filing for tax because you will.need a global tax return reply from the tax office maybe going back 5 years before they will extend your visa just like they do with your bank balance now. It'll be simple for them 

[Baba Naba]

I receive both my Social Security and my VA disability pensions directly deposited into Bangkok Bank. Both of these incomes are non-taxable in the USA and can see no way they can be taxed here. 

 

  Is there a fine for not getting a TIN or filing here? 

 

I'll just make some more popcorn and watch this soap opera play out... 

[Briggsy]

9 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

Based on what?

My probability assessment based on

 

i) a change in the law may be required

ii) the fact that the vast majority of foreigners remaining in the country for over 180 days would owe no further tax

iii) no tangible benefit for the civil servants administering the system

iv) a huge administration headache for the civil servants administering the system

v) a very long history of non-cooperation / non-interference between different departments of the Thai civil service

vi) the departments involved currently lack the basic data over who to assess (the residents and non-residents) and what to assess (the foreign-derived income and the amount remitted).

 

That is my take. It ain't gonna happen any time soon.

[darrenrrrr]

I am an Australia we have a double tax treaty with Thailand , clause 19 says pensions won’t be subject to tax, does this include government pension but also private pensions (that the retiree funded themselves during their working life , we call it superannuation ). Also our private pensions are tax free from 60 years old if you are fully retired which means we pay not tax on earnings such as interest and capital gains tax (CGT). As such clause 19 read also with clause 20 is a bit confusing.

 

So I am assuming if I have a regular pension payment to my Australian bank and then send over my monthly pension amount to a Thai bank is this income taxable by Thailand or it’s not considered income ?

[scorecard]

3 minutes ago, darrenrrrr said:

I am an Australia we have a double tax treaty with Thailand , clause 19 says pensions won’t be subject to tax, does this include government pension but also private pensions (that the retiree funded themselves during their working life , we call it superannuation ). Also our private pensions are tax free from 60 years old if you are fully retired which means we pay not tax on earnings such as interest and capital gains tax (CGT). As such clause 19 read also with clause 20 is a bit confusing.

 

So I am assuming if I have a regular pension payment to my Australian bank and then send over my monthly pension amount to a Thai bank is this income taxable by Thailand or it’s not considered income ?

Excellent question. A similar situation; the pension fund (Centrelink or whoever) send the fuds direct the Thai bank.

 

questions have been asked numerous times re both scenarios, yet to see a clear specific authentic answer. 

[AsiaCheese]

I would strongly advise to watch this guy here, and what he has to say. As long as there are no clear instructions from the Thai tax authorities, having someone talk about what's not set in any way (by the proper authorities) makes little sense...!

 

 

 

[OneManShow]

What I understand is: just give us all your financial information and then we decide what you pay us. 😂

[jojothai]

12 hours ago, Moonlover said:

Most of us are protected ....  or are drawing pensions that cannot be taxed in any other country anyway.

?

I thought there are  a lot of brits here (and australians), and that is not true for the  respective DTAs.

except for government service.

UK DTA does not cover pensions (except for gov service) The OZ DTA, pension is only taxable in the contracting state that you are resident. (except gov service) . if you are resident here, that means tax in thailand.

The personal pensions will be taxable here, if remitted. but any tax paid in uk/oz can be offset. 

A standard UK state pension is just below the income tax threshold in uk, no tax paid.

but the amount is above the thresholds in Thailand, so some tax would be due here , although not very large due to allowances

[darrenrrrr]

So if I have a tax free pension in Australia but live in Thailand you are saying I will be taxed , that’s not how I read clause 19 of the Australian DTA it states in the contracting state where is is earnt