Thai tax tangle: Expats warned of new rules on overseas income

[Jingthing]

20 minutes ago, jas007 said:

That would be nice.  For example, I'm sitting here minding my own business.  Between my US Social Security and my US government pension, I make far more money than I would ever remit into Thailand.  The excess stays in the USA and is invested there. Since both the Social Security benefits and the  government retirement pension is taxable only in the country of origin, per the tax treaty between the US and Thailand, by my calculations, I have no taxable income in Thailand.  It would be nice if I could leave it at that.  If need be, I can easily prove the amount I receive under each program. 

No tin needed.

No filing needed.

Keep records.

Next ..

 

[Card]

1 minute ago, Tony M said:

 

My income in the UK is not taxed (small frozen pension and small rental income) as it is below my personal tax allowance.  But it will be taxed in Thailand if I remit it ?  A tax credit in UK is no use to me if I don't pay tax in UK ?

If u remit earnings that are assessable in thailand above 120000 baht per year irrespective of their tax status in uk then u need to file a tax return in thailabd

[Jingthing]

39 minutes ago, thaipo7 said:

“All foreign income must be declared but this doesn’t always mean a tax liability.”  If there may be no tax, why must they know about your income.

They don't.

They only need remitted taxable in Thailand income. Depends on the source of funds in your specific case.

[Card]

11 minutes ago, thpitsch said:

It does not matter whether or not pensions are included

It does. UK govt pensions, not state pensions, are nit taxable in thailabd due to the dta. If only they are remitted they Di not have to be filed 

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Card said:

If u remit earnings that are assessable in thailand above 120000 baht per year irrespective of their tax status in uk then u need to file a tax return in thailabd

I recall it's only 60k for single filers.

[Tony M]

2 minutes ago, Card said:

If u remit earnings that are assessable in thailand above 120000 baht per year irrespective of their tax status in uk then u need to file a tax return in thailabd

 

So, I might be taxed in Thailand, but not in UK on those two incomes ?   And I might receive a useless tax credit ?

[Jingthing]

Perhaps this expat club should screen their choice of speakers with more care?

[Skeptic7]

3 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Could be.

A year from now you get a knock on your door.  You look thru the peep hole and see a smallish younger Thai man with glasses and a pen in his shirt pocket. He is holding some files.  You decide to open the door and he yells in your face: why didn't you file your Thai taxes!

Thai taxes❓❓❓Mai Khao Jai. Mai roo-jahk. Arai wah❗❓

[black tabby12345]

Another stupid Scare Tactics by the bunch of Crook Bas*ard for easy money for the 

Useless 'Expert Advice' on what is not really announced officially.

Another form of Scammers Capitalizing What is not in place in the first place.

 

 

 

[arick]

That's why it's all better to live up in the north country but no tax office or provincial tax office will take notice of you

[ronnie50]

24 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Perhaps this expat club should screen their choice of speakers with more care?

It seems like little more than a sales pitch by these guys - and is the American even legally a tax consultant here? They didn't really answer anything, nor source the part about credit card purchases in THB being assessible. The other thing that I really don't understand is how the TRD would know whether money I transferred from my home country was from a savings account in existance for decades, and was presumably 'after tax savings' (already taxed elsewhere - and how would I even prove that?). Until a government Minister lays out a clear policy statement, this is all still just noise. 

[Briggsy]

58 minutes ago, Card said:

There is a legal requirement in the uk to report taxable earnings above tax free limits annually. Just because you have not signed up fir self assessment dioes not mean you do not have to file fir tax if you have taxable income.

This is not correct.

 

If you are paid under PAYE, not in receipt of child benefit, not in receipt of investment income of over £10,000 p.a. and not having a total income of over £100,000 p.a. HMRC will actively de-register you from self-assessment and tell you NOT to complete a tax return in future years.

 

I can assure you this is absolutely not tax evasion and HMRC want you to do this. There is no "legal requirement in the uk to report taxable earnings above tax free limits annually". The thresholds for having to complete a tax return (usually £100,000 for PAYE taxpayers) are far higher than the personal allowance (£12,570).

 

I have completed tax returns for many clients in the UK and similarly told many that they should save their money as there is no need for them to complete a tax return.

[mell]

Go to youtube and listen to advice from integrity legal. This expat scaremongering is all bs

[Briggsy]

55 minutes ago, Expat68 said:

It is law any income above and beyond PAYE you have to fill a UK Self Assessment in. One example of this is if you rent a property out (on top which you have to fill a form in and return it to HMRC, the agent will normally return it for you)

There are specific situations laid out by HMRC that mean you have to complete a tax return. Property income is one of those situations. There is even a helpful government app which determines whether you need to complete a tax return.

 

BTW, it is not "any income". That is for property income. For the self-employed, who outnumber landlords many times over, the threshold is annual turnover in excess of £1000.

[The Cyclist]

1 hour ago, Briggsy said:

In the UK, there is no necessity to complete a tax return unless you yourself have registered for self-assessment. Examples of those who register for self-assessment are the self-employed with a turnover of at least £1000 per year or high earners with a total income in excess of £100,000.

 

Every tax resident foreigner in the UK, that has Foreign Income needs to file an SA 106.

[CharlesHolzhauer]

2 hours ago, darrenrrrr said:

I am an Australia we have a double tax treaty with Thailand , clause 19 says pensions won’t be subject to tax, does this include government pension but also private pensions (that the retiree funded themselves during their working life , we call it superannuation ). Also our private pensions are tax free from 60 years old if you are fully retired which means we pay not tax on earnings such as interest and capital gains tax (CGT). As such clause 19 read also with clause 20 is a bit confusing.

 

So I am assuming if I have a regular pension payment to my Australian bank and then send over my monthly pension amount to a Thai bank is this income taxable by Thailand or it’s not considered income ?

Your assumption is correct.

ARTICLE 18
PENSIONS AND ANNUITIES
1. Subject to the provisions of Article 19, pensions and annuities paid to a resident of one of the Contracting States shall be taxable only in that State.
2. The term "annuity" means a stated sum payable periodically at stated times during life or during a
specified or ascertainable period of time under an obligation to make the payments in return for adequate
and full consideration in money or money's worth.

ARTICLE 19
GOVERNMENT SERVICE
1. Remuneration (other than a pension) paid by one of the Contracting States or a political subdivision of that State or a local authority of that State to any individual in respect of services rendered in the discharge of governmental functions shall be taxable only in that State. However, such remuneration shall be taxable only in the other Contracting State if the services are rendered in that other State and the recipient is a resident of that other State who:
(a) is a citizen or national of that other State; or
(b) did not become a resident of that other State solely for the purpose of performing the services.
2. Any pension paid to an individual in respect of services rendered in the discharge of governmental functions to one of the Contracting States or a political subdivision of that State or a local authority of that State shall be taxable only in that State. Such pension shall, however, be taxable only in the other Contracting State if the recipient is a resident of, and a citizen or national of, that other State.
3. The provisions of paragraphs 1 and 2 shall not apply to remuneration or a pension in respect of
services rendered in connection with any trade or business carried on by one of the Contracting States or a
political subdivision of one of the States or a local authority of one of the States. In such a case, the
provisions of Article 15, 16 or 18 as the case may be shall apply.

ARTICLE 15
DEPENDENT PERSONAL SERVICES
1. Subject to the provisions of Article 16, 18, 19 and 20, salaries, wages and other similar remuneration derived by an individual who is a resident of one of the Contracting State in respect of an employment shall be taxable only in that State unless the employment is exercised in the other Contracting State. If the employment is so exercised, such remuneration as is derived from that exercise may be taxed in that other State.
2. Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph 1, remuneration derives by an individual who is a
resident of the Contracting State in respect of an employment exercised in the other Contracting State
shall be taxable only in the first-mentioned State if :
(a) the recipient is present in that other State for a period or periods not exceeding in the aggregate 183 days in the tax year or year of income, as the case may be, of that other State;
(b) the remuneration is paid by, or on behalf of, an employer who is not a resident of that other State; and
(c) the remuneration is not deductible in determining taxable profits of a permanent establishment or a fixed base which the employer has in that other State.
3. Notwithstanding the preceding provisions of this Article, remuneration in respect of an employment exercised aboard a ship or aircraft operated in international traffic by a resident of one of the Contracting States may be taxed in that Contracting State.

ARTICLE 16
DIRECTORS' FEES
Directors' fees and similar payments derived by a resident of one of the Contracting States in the the capacity of the resident as a member of the board of directors of a company which is a resident of the other Contracting State may be taxed in that other State.

ARTICLE 20
PROFESSORS AND TEACHERS
1. A professor or teacher who is a resident of one of the Contracting States and who visits the other Contracting State, at the invitation of any university, college, school or other similar educational institution situated in the other Contracting State and which is recognized by the competent authority of that other State, for a period not exceeding two years solely for the purpose of teaching or research or both at such educational institution shall be taxable only in the first mentioned state on any remuneration for such teaching or research.
2. This Article shall not apply to remuneration which a professor or teacher receives for conducting research if the research is undertaken primarily for the private benefit of a specific person or persons.
===
Tax-Free Status in Australia:
The fact that the pension payments are tax-free in Australia due to their nature (private pension earnings approved by the government as tax-free) does not change their treatment under the DTAA. The DTAA determines which country has taxing rights, not the domestic tax status.

Taxation in Thailand:
Article 18 states that pensions (not related to government service) paid to a resident of Thailand are taxable only in Thailand. This means that once the funds are remitted to Thailand, Thai tax laws will govern their taxation.

Private Pension Clarification:
While Article 18 does not explicitly differentiate between public and private pensions, it broadly covers pensions. Private pension payments are likely considered taxable in Thailand under Thai law, even if not taxed in Australia.

 

[Jingthing]

10 minutes ago, ronnie50 said:

It seems like little more than a sales pitch by these guys - and is the American even legally a tax consultant here? They didn't really answer anything, nor source the part about credit card purchases in THB being assessible. The other thing that I really don't understand is how the TRD would know whether money I transferred from my home country was from a savings account in existance for decades, and was presumably 'after tax savings' (already taxed elsewhere - and how would I even prove that?). Until a government Minister lays out a clear policy statement, this is all still just noise. 

I can answer the from old savings point. Prior to Jan 1 2024.

Thailand wouldn't know!

You self assess and don't report it as its exempt.

If ever audited you prove it with your US bank records. 

[Imd8ta]

4 hours ago, tomazbodner said:

You're

You are.

[Briggsy]

3 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Every tax resident foreigner in the UK, that has Foreign Income needs to file an SA 106.

It is slightly more complex than that. SA 106 is supplementary to a UK tax return. If you are completing an SA106 you are completing a UK tax return.

 

You need to have foreign income AND tax needs to be owing on that foreign income. This applies both to foreigners and UK nationals who are resident in the UK for tax purposes. It is irrespective of nationality.

 

If no tax is owing, you will probably find HMRC will de-register from self-assessment and the need for a return if this was the only reason.

 

We are getting very off-topic.

[Lopburikid]

17 hours ago, Airalee said:

Even when you haven’t known the answers, you provide far better tax advice than these so called professionals.

Been to the tax revenue office twice now once last November and once a week ago this year. Both times asked what visa I have, both times told "no tax pension".

[The Cyclist]

1 minute ago, Briggsy said:

t is slightly more complex than that. SA 106 is supplementary to a UK tax return.

 

The UK main tax return, SA 100, Check box 5 ( if you have foreign income ) and complete SA 106.

 

Yes, it is a supplementary, to list your foreign income, taxes paid overseas and list any DTA's that you wish to utilise.

[JimGant]

4 hours ago, Kerryd said:

And don't bother trying to argue that your [non assessable] pension income shouldn't be included in determining your tax rate, especially as they are just going to deduct that amount anyways.

Currently, only assessable income is included on your tax return. Income non assessable, because of DTA or because it was pre 2024 income (Por 162), is NOT shown anywhere on your return. And, then, of course it doesn't affect your tax bracket -- and wouldn't be shown as a tax deduction, since there's no equivalent non assessble income to deduct it from.

 

Much discussion on other threads about TRD eventually getting around to asking you to declare ALL remitted income -- assessable and non assessable. This is a Canadian model, where non taxable (non assessable) income is factored in with taxable income, to potentially drive up the tax bracket, and thus collect more taxes on taxable income. Thailand would be smart to emulate this, as its potential to raise tax brackets, and thus taxes collected on assessable income.

 

And, if they asked you to label each element of your non assessable income, potential there to discover inappropriately labelled, and thus taxable, income. But, since they'll have to bang this off of 61 separate DTAs for most non assessable income, this would most likely not be a cost effective.

[cjinchiangrai]

1 hour ago, Tony M said:

 

My income in the UK is not taxed (small frozen pension and small rental income) as it is below my personal tax allowance.  But it will be taxed in Thailand if I remit it ?  A tax credit in UK is no use to me if I don't pay tax in UK ?

It may well be taxable in Thailand. The price of living here and using Thai resources. 

[StayinThailand2much]

13 hours ago, Gknrd said:

As the guys are forced out it is going to put a real hardship on the good Thai women there. 

 

Once more the old money grab to fleece foreigners, without thinking of the long-term repercussions... They'll need a few more million Chinese tourists  (here for a week) to replace the expats and their money they're scaring away with these tactics. Good luck, Thailand!

 

[digger70]

 Thai tax tangle: Expats warned of new rules on overseas income 

 

So the News is that they still don't know what they are doing

For me no Tax number

If they  want money They will have to Proof what tax that I pay abroad or not.

In the first place  That has got nothing to do with them what tax I pay in my home country.

Anyway why would we be paying tax on money we bring into the country? We Use/Spend the money here and still pay tax on Everything we buy.

Absolutely an Insane stupid greedy  money grabbing idea.

[cjinchiangrai]

1 minute ago, StayinThailand2much said:

 

Once more the old money grab to fleece foreigners, without thinking of the long-term repercussions... They'll need a few more million Chinese tourists to replace the expats and their money they're scaring away with these tactics. Good luck, Thailand!

 

As opposed to the falang money grab by not paying taxes at home and also not paying in Thailand either. Sorry, the freeloading is disappearing.

[Lopburikid]

27 minutes ago, black tabby12345 said:

Another stupid Scare Tactics by the bunch of Crook Bas*ard for easy money for the 

Useless 'Expert Advice' on what is not really announced officially.

Another form of Scammers Capitalizing What is not in place in the first place.

 

 

 

It is important to note that these new amendments are only in the drafting stage at the moment and formal approval by the Cabinet and the Thai parliament is required before they can be enacted.  This was of September 24TH 2024. has it been passed yet?

[StayinThailand2much]

9 minutes ago, cjinchiangrai said:

As opposed to the falang money grab by not paying taxes at home and also not paying in Thailand either. Sorry, the freeloading is disappearing.

 

Probably almost all "falang", Mr. Guava, have already paid their taxes back home. But, of course, you're free to hand over all your cash to the revenue department. 😆

[cjinchiangrai]

1 minute ago, StayinThailand2much said:

 

Most "falang", Mr. Guava, have already paid their taxes back home. But, of course, you're free to hand over all your cash to the revenue department. 😆

If they did, then the Thai taxes would not be an issue. If they pay 0 at home, then the entire income becomes taxable here. You just need to fill in the forms to know that.

[NoDisplayName]

5 hours ago, Card said:

Google penalties fir non compliance for thailand tax. When the next rules on global assets comes in you won't be able to renew your retirement visa without filing a tax return and they will want ti know why u did not file for any taxable remittances in the previous years

 

I think this is the part where someone says "citation needed."