Thai tax tangle: Expats warned of new rules on overseas income

[NoDisplayName]

31 minutes ago, JimGant said:

So, yeah -- big question -- when does income transform into savings? Hmmmm.

 

Riddle me this, Batman!

 

You have capital gains from stock sales in the US of $25,000 in 2024.  The original capital is reinvested, and the gain is put into a separate account to sit idle for two years.

On December 30, 2026 you invest that idle $25,000 gain in a random mutual fund.

On January 02, 2027 you sell that mutual fund for $24,950.

You are continuously tax resident in Thailand over the entire period.

 

None of that idle gain nestled in its isolated account was remitted during 2024-2026, no nothing assessable during that period.

 

For your 2027 taxes, you have a sale resulting in receiving most of the original capital, and a short term capital loss of $50.  No gain to be taxed, and the cash in your account is now considered capital, not capital gains.

 

You have a 2027 1040 showing a sale resulting in a loss, with nothing taxable.

 

Assuming you can point to this particular bag of money as that particular remittance, what is it?

 

If it's the capital gains from 2024, then it's assessable, and must be declared as income in the year remitted.

 

If it's the original capital from a fund sale, not resulting in a gain to pollute the calculations, then it's non-assessable and need not be reported in the year remitted.

 

If audited, Is my 2027 1040 or 1099 satisfactory to show the funds are non-assessable?  Is TRD going to demand to know when the fund sold in 2027 was purchased, with what funds, and where did those funds come from, and before that, and before that, with a clear path back to pre-2024?  How many degrees to Kevin Bacon must I document?

 

I suppose we'll have to bring in a truckload of invoices and receipts and tax statements.................unless TRD continue to have us self-determine assessablility of remittances.  Otherwise they're gonna be frightfully busy.

 

 

[anchadian]

22 minutes ago, Badrabbit said:

Maybe, I've been told I don't have to so I wont,

What will they do send me to prison for 30 years.

I'm in the same boat as yourself. 

 

My total income is THB389,00 of assessable income by way of two pensions which I have printed, UK bank, Thai bank statements 2024 and breakdown. I wont be filing and I'm pretty sure like us many wont be entertaining the RD.

We might even end up as cellmates if the worst comes to the worst.

 

Let's see what transpires from the Govt or RD, if at all,

[Badrabbit]

38 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Fair enough, go with what your RD Office says.

Also the UK state is a Government Pension as it is issued by the department for works and pensions which is a Government department.

If you think it's not use your friend Google.

[Badrabbit]

2 minutes ago, anchadian said:

I'm in the same boat as yourself. 

 

My total income is THB389,00 of assessable income by way of two pensions which I have printed, UK bank, Thai bank statements 2024 and breakdown. I wont be filing and I'm pretty sure like us many wont be entertaining the RD.

We might even end up as cellmates if the worst comes to the worst.

 

Let's see what transpires from the Govt or RD, if at all,

Cell mates! Hope you don't snore lol 

[KhunHeineken]

35 minutes ago, Badrabbit said:

What will they do send me to prison for 30 years.

No, but possibly no visa extension. 

 

Ask yourself this question, "If every foreigner didn't file, what course of action would the Thai government take to force them to file?"

 

Why go around arresting them when they must go to an immigration office?  

[rocketboy2]

44 minutes ago, JimGant said:

That's the best question asked on this forum in ages. Say your rental income from 2024 rests in your bank account until 2030, when you, as a Thai tax resident, finally remit it to Thailand. How will it be treated? Bounce that off of the following:

 

This says, yeah, when remitted to Thailand in 2030, it has to be declared as income. That's bonkers! How about remitted in 2045? At some point income transitions into savings. And I would suggest that point is when subject income has gone through your home country tax process, either to be taxed, to not be taxed, or to be determined as tax exempt. After which, it is no longer income. Would TRD buy that? Dunno.

 

Of course, the same logic could be applied to: 2024 rental income being declared when you file your home country taxes in 2025. Then, after it's gone through this home country tax process, it becomes savings. And, as such, if you then remit it to Thailand after doing your home country taxes, it is, as savings, no longer taxable by Thailand.

 

This might be a stretch, as far as TRD is concerned. But what exactly is the difference in this scenario between after tax rental income in home country bank account, after home country tax return accomplished in 2025 -- and same scenario, but now in 2045?

 

So, yeah -- big question -- when does income transform into savings? Hmmmm.

 

 

Thank you for your reply.

yes,  all very complicated.

 

[Badrabbit]

4 hours ago, jayboy said:

 

Some people are clearly driving themselves crazy.

Are you surprised after reading all the comments, I actually believe some posters are agents trying to scare people into spending money, I have never seen a thread with so many scaremongering comments.

I'll do what I have been told.

[jonesthepost]

On 1/15/2025 at 6:29 PM, Jingthing said:

Misinformation.

No need to get a TIN or file unless your remitted  accessable income is over the threshold.

For example if you're only remitting exempt US social security no need for tin or to file.

Ido not know about the Americans, but if are not over the threshold of remittences although you do not need to file a tax return, you have to go to the revenue office with  a years bank statement showing  transfers from aboard., to get a tax clearence . I did that this morning 

[Badrabbit]

6 minutes ago, jonesthepost said:

Ido not know about the Americans, but if are not over the threshold of remittences although you do not need to file a tax return, you have to go to the revenue office with  a years bank statement showing  transfers from aboard., to get a tax clearence . I did that this morning 

I can do that, what is a tax clearance? Is it a form stating tax exempt?

I only have one pension which is approx 1,700bht per month.

2 others are Government.

I'm not worried any more.

[The Cyclist]

30 minutes ago, Badrabbit said:

Also the UK state is a Government Pension as it is issued by the department for works and pensions which is a Government department.

 

Correct, it is issued by the DWP.

 

For tax purposes and DTA's it is not a Government Pension

 

Government Pensions consist of

 

Civil Servants

 

Police

 

Fire Brigade

 

Armed Forces

 

etc.

[Badrabbit]

30 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Correct, it is issued by the DWP.

 

For tax purposes and DTA's it is not a Government Pension

 

Government Pensions consist of

 

Civil Servants

 

Police

 

Fire Brigade

 

Armed Forces

 

etc.

Google is wrong. Wow.

I believe Google but it does not matter as I wouldn't be taxed on 25k per month so all is good. 

[anrcaccount]

58 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Riddle me this, Batman!

 

You have capital gains from stock sales in the US of $25,000 in 2024.  The original capital is reinvested, and the gain is put into a separate account to sit idle for two years.

On December 30, 2026 you invest that idle $25,000 gain in a random mutual fund.

On January 02, 2027 you sell that mutual fund for $24,950.

You are continuously tax resident in Thailand over the entire period.

 

None of that idle gain nestled in its isolated account was remitted during 2024-2026, no nothing assessable during that period.

 

For your 2027 taxes, you have a sale resulting in receiving most of the original capital, and a short term capital loss of $50.  No gain to be taxed, and the cash in your account is now considered capital, not capital gains.

 

You have a 2027 1040 showing a sale resulting in a loss, with nothing taxable.

 

Assuming you can point to this particular bag of money as that particular remittance, what is it?

 

If it's the capital gains from 2024, then it's assessable, and must be declared as income in the year remitted.

 

If it's the original capital from a fund sale, not resulting in a gain to pollute the calculations, then it's non-assessable and need not be reported in the year remitted.

 

If audited, Is my 2027 1040 or 1099 satisfactory to show the funds are non-assessable?  Is TRD going to demand to know when the fund sold in 2027 was purchased, with what funds, and where did those funds come from, and before that, and before that, with a clear path back to pre-2024?  How many degrees to Kevin Bacon must I document?

 

I suppose we'll have to bring in a truckload of invoices and receipts and tax statements.................unless TRD continue to have us self-determine assessablility of remittances.  Otherwise they're gonna be frightfully busy.

 

 

 

"UNpossibly" complex for the TRD to even begin to calculate. Helps identify why almost nowhere in the world operates remittance taxation, it's practically unenforceable.

 

Anyone who pays a single baht of tax on any foreign remittance to Thailand is IMO, a poor tax planner.

 

Firstly you can use the gifting provisions, they are pretty simple. 

 

Secondly, you can take income and buy something with it (anything, a stock, a car, some art) , then immediately sell said something at cost, and remit the proceeds of the sale, squeaky clean. No capital gains.

 

In both cases, the remitted funds are non assessable/exempt/whatever the latest term is,  and no need to declare. 

[Jim Blue]

8 hours ago, Badrabbit said:

Can you say what was needed as my tax office say I would need documents from the UK confirming funds coming into Thailand.

Yes this was about a year  ago and I took my passport and chanoot as residence proof.i was out in 5 mins as the place was empty.

[Wyabcp]

Is there another thread for these Tax question but only for the Brits ? It's great seeing everyone else's input and how this may/may not affect them, but there is also a lot of unnecessary noise... 

thanks

[Yumthai]

3 hours ago, JimGant said:

So, yeah -- big question -- when does income transform into savings? Hmmmm.

TRD auditors can ask for information going back 10 years, past this period everything becomes savings.

[NoDisplayName]

2 hours ago, anrcaccount said:

"UNpossibly" complex for the TRD to even begin to calculate. Helps identify why almost nowhere in the world operates remittance taxation, it's practically unenforceable.

 

So shall I put you down under "effectively no change, we will continue to self-determine assessablility of remittances as before"?

 

2 hours ago, anrcaccount said:

you can take income and buy something with it (anything, a stock, a car, some art) , then immediately sell said something at cost, and remit the proceeds of the sale

 

It certainly seems that way in the absence of clear instructions, but I'd still like to have the purchase in one tax year, and the sale of said asset in the following year.  IRS regulations easily cover this situation, but that isn't a remittance system with earning and remittances separated by potentially decades.

 

What to do when your 2024 earnings have been through multiple cycles of invest, sell, re-invest over three or four years or ten years? 

 

Problem is that the regulations, and the overly -simplified explanations and examples we get from TRD and news articles don't take this into account.  They all seem to expect that everyone keeps all their money in a single passbook savings account.

[DrPhibes]

31 minutes ago, Wyabcp said:

Is there another thread for these Tax question but only for the Brits ? It's great seeing everyone else's input and how this may/may not affect them, but there is also a lot of unnecessary noise... 

thanks

Would not be a bad idea that new threads start for each country to keep down the confusion over each country's DTAs, which are not the same.

[oldcpu]

4 minutes ago, DrPhibes said:

Would not be a bad idea that new threads start for each country to keep down the confusion over each country's DTAs, which are not the same.

 

I suspect there are only a handful of such threads needed dedicated to specific countries and the remainder could be lumped into one thread. 

 

Case in point, there is an old thread for DTAs for Canada , and that thread is dead as a door nail :

 

 

[JimGant]

52 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

TRD auditors can ask for information going back 10 years, past this period everything becomes savings

Well, before Por 161, out year remittances weren't considered income for taxation purposes. The 10 year audit window was, then, to monitor income from within Thailand. I think I might feel fairly secure that once my income had been processed by my home country tax service -- in my case, the IRS -- I could consider it savings. And, I'd probably self-assess on that basis. But, I certainly wouldn't welcome the chance to explain this to an auditor.... Nevertheless, this is another gray area among many in this new world of Thai taxation -- and with any gray area, you take the fork in the road that is to your advantage.

 

 

[ukrules]

8 hours ago, JimGant said:

At some point income transitions into savings. And I would suggest that point is when subject income has gone through your home country tax process, either to be taxed, to not be taxed, or to be determined as tax exempt. After which, it is no longer income. Would TRD buy that?

 

Not a chance.

 

This is indeed the issue which prompted me to relocate to Cambodia for most of 2024

 

Savings is funds from prior to Jan 1, 2024 or in a year after 2024 prior to you becoming a tax resident - now this is the important bit if you already live here in Thailand - also in subsequent years where you are not a tax resident.

Everything else is income or partial income (mix of old savings and interest payments compounded over time) and I believe if audited they will want to see the source of the savings and will perhaps according to some people want to look back as long as 10 years - or THESE DAYS that seems to have been reset to Jan 1 2024.
 

So it won't be too much of an issue for now but as the years go on it will be an increasing burden on people living here.

 

[The Cyclist]

6 hours ago, ukrules said:

Everything else is income or partial income (mix of old savings and interest payments compounded over time) and I believe if audited they will want to see the source of the savings and will perhaps according to some people want to look back as long as 10 years - or THESE DAYS that seems to have been reset to Jan 1 2024.

 

Which is why I will not be surprised if the Updated paperwork from the TRD, is nothing to do with an updated  PND 90 / 91 and a completely different form for Tax Resident Foreigners.

 

Leaving the PND 90 / 91 as they are, for Thais, and people working legally in Thailand.

 

We shall see what transpires over the next 4-6 weeks.

[Guavaman]

6 hours ago, ukrules said:

At some point income transitions into savings. And I would suggest that point is when subject income has gone through your home country tax process, either to be taxed, to not be taxed, or to be determined as tax exempt. After which, it is no longer income. Would TRD buy that?

 

In this post Por 161/2566 and Por 162/2566 era, it appears that the only way that current assessable income derived from a foreign source by a tax resident of Thailand -- Thai citizen or foreigner -- can become "savings" is to for that specific income to be remitted to Thailand and subjected to the assessment process -- self-assessment and/or assessment by the RD.

 

If savings from current income that has been subjected to the tax process in another country is remitted 10 years from now, one will find it extremely challenging to obtain a tax credit or exemption for those particular funds.  Thai tax residents need to segregate their offshore "savings" into separate accounts according to the source of funds to be able to prove the eligibility of those specific funds for exemption from calculation of tax in Thailand.  

 

The fungibility dilemma -- only solvable using digital funds with blockchain for tracking or some such system.  

 

On the other hand, if the RD moves to taxation of worldwide income irrespective of where it is derived, they could return to merely assessing reported income derived in a tax year by a Thai tax resident.

[redwood1]

1 hour ago, Guavaman said:

 

In this post Por 161/2566 and Por 162/2566 era, it appears that the only way that current assessable income derived from a foreign source by a tax resident of Thailand -- Thai citizen or foreigner -- can become "savings" is to for that specific income to be remitted to Thailand and subjected to the assessment process -- self-assessment and/or assessment by the RD.

 

If savings from current income that has been subjected to the tax process in another country is remitted 10 years from now, one will find it extremely challenging to obtain a tax credit or exemption for those particular funds.  Thai tax residents need to segregate their offshore "savings" into separate accounts according to the source of funds to be able to prove the eligibility of those specific funds for exemption from calculation of tax in Thailand.  

 

The fungibility dilemma -- only solvable using digital funds with blockchain for tracking or some such system.  

 

On the other hand, if the RD moves to taxation of worldwide income irrespective of where it is derived, they could return to merely assessing reported income derived in a tax year by a Thai tax resident.

 

This sounds great......Everyone can spend the remaining years they have left on this earth bogged down in this murky unclear tax swamp...With rules that vary by the day, month or year or vary by peoples opinions of the rules.....lol

 

By now I bet there have been at least 20-30,000 posts on this form about this tax trying to figure it out....

 

The whole mess belongs in the trash....

[Neeranam]

16 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

.unless TRD continue to have us self-determine assessablility of remittances

this is what the rule is

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, Guavaman said:

The fungibility dilemma -- only solvable using digital funds with blockchain for tracking or some such system.  

It is coming, in fact my bank, SCB already use blockchain tech. for cross border remittances. 

They use stablecoins now but a few years back used XRP for remittances between Japan and Thailand. US and Mexico also had/have such a corridor using XRP. 

 

Also, a Former Finance Minister who told me personally that everything will be digital very soon. 

 

[Neeranam]

18 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

It is coming, in fact my bank, SCB already use blockchain tech. for cross border remittances. 

They use stablecoins now but a few years back used XRP for remittances between Japan and Thailand. US and Mexico also had/have such a corridor using XRP. 

 

Also, a Former Finance Minister who told me personally that everything will be digital very soon. 

 

Trump also is on the ball in this areas -  

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/01/23/trump-signs-executive-order-on-crypto-digital-asset-stockpile.html

 

President Donald Trump signed an executive order on Thursday to promote the advancement of cryptocurrencies in the U.S. and to work toward potentially developing a national digital asset stockpile.

[StayinThailand2much]

17 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

No, but possibly no visa extension. 

 

Ask yourself this question, "If every foreigner didn't file, what course of action would the Thai government take to force them to file?"

 

Why go around arresting them when they must go to an immigration office?  

 

Well, personally, I don't need this stress, so, yeah, with such uncertainty, I will count the days in Thailand in the future; up to 180 at best...

[Guderian]

19 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

No, but possibly no visa extension. 

 

Ask yourself this question, "If every foreigner didn't file, what course of action would the Thai government take to force them to file?"

 

Why go around arresting them when they must go to an immigration office?  

 

Highly unlikely given that the Immigration computer system can't even communicate effectively with itself (as evidenced by the need to do a 90-day in person when returning from a trip abroad, in spite of Immigration at the airport having clocked you into the system so it knows your status perfectly well). The idea that there'll suddenly be some magic, working interface between the TRD computer database (which, like most Thai IT, will also be an outdated crock o'<deleted>e) and the dodgy Immigration system is in the realms of fantasy as far as I'm concerned.

 

And anyway, if they were somehow to decide to refuse you an extension, for many people that would surely be the time to get the Hell out of Dodge and find a friendlier place to spend your retirement income, or just go the <180-day route.

[KhunHeineken]

1 hour ago, Guderian said:

 

Highly unlikely given that the Immigration computer system can't even communicate effectively with itself (as evidenced by the need to do a 90-day in person when returning from a trip abroad, in spite of Immigration at the airport having clocked you into the system so it knows your status perfectly well). The idea that there'll suddenly be some magic, working interface between the TRD computer database (which, like most Thai IT, will also be an outdated crock o'<deleted>e) and the dodgy Immigration system is in the realms of fantasy as far as I'm concerned.

 

And anyway, if they were somehow to decide to refuse you an extension, for many people that would surely be the time to get the Hell out of Dodge and find a friendlier place to spend your retirement income, or just go the <180-day route.

As I posted before, and another member also.

 

Immigration Officer:  "Do you have certificate from the TRD?"

 

Expat:  "No."

 

Immigration Officer:  "Can not do extension without certificate from TRD. You go see TRD first."   

 

Expat:  "Ok." 

 

Yes, rocket science, computer data bases, and some magic.  

 

Just another document needed at extension time.  No bank document, no extension.  No TRD certificate, no extension. Same Same.   

 

The order comes down from Bangkok, and that's it.  It would be so simple for them to do it that I will be very surprised if it does not go that way at some stage this year, or in the future. 

[KhunHeineken]

3 hours ago, StayinThailand2much said:

 

Well, personally, I don't need this stress, so, yeah, with such uncertainty, I will count the days in Thailand in the future; up to 180 at best...

I understand. 

 

I stayed for 2024, minimized my remittances, brought a wad of cash back from the Singapore F1, and also had a friend bring in a wad of cash for me from my home country as well. 

 

I'll instruct a tax agent / accountant to file and declare at the 11th hour in March and see what happens. 

 

If I have to pay an amount of tax that I think is fair, I'll repeat the same in 2026. 

 

If I have to pay an amount of tax I think is a rip off, I'm off to Vietnam for the second half of 2025.

 

I'm giving the Thai's a chance.  Perhaps, silly me, but they will only get me once.