Talking to Thais, have you ever had "Pow Wow" moments?

[Andrew Dwyer]

3 hours ago, simon43 said:

Do not expect Google Translate to know everything! Of course Google Translate literally translates 'Red Indian' as 'India Daeng'.  That's a literal translation.  But I just asked several Thai people (in Thai language) if they understood what 'khon India Daeng' means and what people that refers to.  Of course they understood the literal words, but none of them identified that phrase as referring to Native Americans.  So I asked them what they would call the indigenous people of North America, and they said 'the indigenous people of north America!

 

When I go out later, I'll ask more Thai people if they understand what people 'khon India Daeng' refers to, and I'm sure that I'll have the same reply.....

 

As an update, I showed some images from Google of 'Red Indians' to Thai people.  They all said 'Oh, those people!'  "What are they called in Thai?" I asked.  They all replied, "they come from north America, but there is no special name in Thai..."

Some years ago i asked my wife “ what do you call Indian as in Cowboys and Indians “, she replied “ India Daeng “ .

I remember it well as i was surprised that it had translated literally but that is what she said !

[simon43]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

American Indian? You mean like Vivek Ramaswamy?

Thanks, but that doesn't seem to work with all the Thais that I asked today and whom I showed a photo of a 'Red Indian'

 

Perhaps I'm not associating with the right kind of Thai 🙂

 

[quote]

India Daeng works. I guarantee it. I have heard it used by Thais many times.

[/quote]

 

I'm happy to hear that.  But I'm intrigued as to what sort of conversations they were having that involved discussing Red Indians 🙂

 

"Hey Somchai, don't go into town today.  It's full of Red Indians"

"Yea I know, these Red Indians are getting everywhere.  I wish they would go back to India.. er .. the prairies of North America"

 

Perhaps they were talking about sunburnt Indians from Bombay?

[Jingthing]

In my case I was talking about how everyone in America is from somewhere else (immigration). But there is that exception if you don't count Siberia. POW WOW.

[tjintx]

20 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I did something surprising (to myself) recently.

I was talking to a Thai who had limited English and wanted to express a thought about native Americans, what others might call American Indians, indigenous people, First Nations, etc.

But my first impulse in order to actually effectively communicate the thought was to first say Indians but realizing that sounds like from India to a Thai so I then put my hand to my mouth moving it back and forth and said POW WOW Indians! OMG -- what had possessed me?

So racist. I don't think I've ever said or gestured POW WOW Indians before in my life. But he understood immediately, smiled and didn't try to cancel me. 

I have no regrets. Sometimes you just want to communicate. But still a bit surprised that I did that.

 

Have you had such POW WOW moments talking to Thais?

 

 

 

You are having a GG moment, maybe he could post a music video of Running Bear or Cherokee people?

[georgegeorgia]

2 hours ago, Yagoda said:

Yeah I despise racists, anti semites, anti americans and socialists. I think they are backwards, barbaric and primitive.

Seems strange , usually the people ( leftists)  who despise racists are ok with people who are Anti American?

 

I guess you are calling the pot kettle black though and are transphobic and homophobic ?

[Dan O]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I wasn’t trying to be accurate.

I know what a pow wow is.

Saying no dot or feathers is ridiculous in the Thai context.

Of course my pow wow gesture was ridiculous too.

Rethinkimg red Indian I think also meaningless in the Thai comrext.

The point of this topic isn't so much what's actually correct but about the types of odd things people might do in the moment  to communicate across language limitations.

Of course there's always Google translate.

 

That is exactly what I was saying. I gave the no dot but feathers example as a friend from India used that in a conversation once which was hilarious that he used it to convey exact point.

 

There are some ideas and concepts that are extremely difficult to convey as Thais may have no reference context to make the connection especially on this particular subject 

[Jingthing]

16 minutes ago, tjintx said:

 

You are having a GG moment, maybe he could post a music video of Running Bear or Cherokee people?

I'm having a whatza moment?

[short-Timer]

2 hours ago, simon43 said:

Thanks, but that doesn't seem to work with all the Thais that I asked today and whom I showed a photo of a 'Red Indian'

 

Perhaps I'm not associating with the right kind of Thai 🙂

 

[quote]

India Daeng works. I guarantee it. I have heard it used by Thais many times.

[/quote]

 

I'm happy to hear that.  But I'm intrigued as to what sort of conversations they were having that involved discussing Red Indians 🙂

 

"Hey Somchai, don't go into town today.  It's full of Red Indians"

"Yea I know, these Red Indians are getting everywhere.  I wish they would go back to India.. er .. the prairies of North America"

 

Perhaps they were talking about sunburnt Indians from Bombay?

Me: What is the correct word in Thai for American Indians?

 

ChatGPT: In Thai, the correct term for American Indians (the indigenous peoples of the Americas) is:

 

อินเดียนแดง (pronounced In-di-an-daeng).

• อินเดียน (In-di-an) refers to “Indian.”

• แดง (Daeng) means “red,” referencing the historical term “Red Indian,” which is considered outdated and potentially offensive in English but is still used in some contexts in Thai.

 

Alternatively, a more respectful term can be:

 

ชนพื้นเมืองอเมริกัน (pronounced Chon Phuen Mueang Amerikaan), which directly translates to “Native Americans” or “Indigenous Peoples of America.”

[short-Timer]

2 hours ago, simon43 said:

Thanks, but that doesn't seem to work with all the Thais that I asked today and whom I showed a photo of a 'Red Indian'

 

Perhaps I'm not associating with the right kind of Thai 🙂

 

[quote]

India Daeng works. I guarantee it. I have heard it used by Thais many times.

[/quote]

 

I'm happy to hear that.  But I'm intrigued as to what sort of conversations they were having that involved discussing Red Indians 🙂

 

"Hey Somchai, don't go into town today.  It's full of Red Indians"

"Yea I know, these Red Indians are getting everywhere.  I wish they would go back to India.. er .. the prairies of North America"

 

Perhaps they were talking about sunburnt Indians from Bombay?

 

Additionally, Goong.com, a modern Thai dictionary, notes that “Red Indian” has been used for centuries in Thai to describe indigenous peoples of North America but is now considered somewhat inappropriate due to its racial connotations, although it's still widely used. 
 

https://goong.com/th/word/ความหมายของ_red_indian/

[blaze master]

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Is that a confession?

 

Says the guy who created a thread to remind us how progressive he us with his racism ? 

 

 

Ya good deflection.

[GinBoy2]

Well JT that was a bit dumb, but we've all had those  dumb moments when we look back and think, 'what the f****ck was I thinking saying the that'

On the plus side I doubt any Thai not brought up on 50/60's Westerns movies had any clue what the Hell you were talking about

[Jingthing]

27 minutes ago, blaze master said:

 

Says the guy who created a thread to remind us how progressive he us with his racism ? 

 

 

Ya good deflection.

I did whatza?!?

[Jingthing]

16 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

Well JT that was a bit dumb, but we've all had those  dumb moments when we look back and think, 'what the f****ck was I thinking saying the that'

On the plus side I doubt any Thai not brought up on 50/60's Westerns movies had any clue what the Hell you were talking about

I'm waiting for the results of the Thailand Pow Wow Indians with hand to mouth gesture challenge.

[RSD1]

On 1/17/2025 at 5:07 PM, Jingthing said:

so I then put my hand to my mouth moving it back and forth and said POW WOW Indians!

If you did that in front of me, I wouldn't have a clue what you were doing. And what is your actual definition of the term "pow wow"?
 

“Pow wow” traditionally refers to an informal discussion or meeting to share ideas and not Native American Indians per se.
 

I believe pow wow might've also been used in the past to discuss a gathering of American Indians, but that's not a reference that most people would recognize. 
 

So how could anyone even know that, whatever the hand gesture was that you made, has anything to do with Native American Indians?
 

Meanwhile, a Thai gives a smile in a confusing moment like that, whereas another Westerner might've just stayed quiet, and raised an eyebrow with a look of bewilderment. 

[Yagoda]

3 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

Seems strange , usually the people ( leftists)  who despise racists are ok with people who are Anti American?

 

I guess you are calling the pot kettle black though and are transphobic and homophobic ?

There is no such thing as transphobia and homophobia among us normal Americans. There is only pity for mental illness

[Jingthing]

35 minutes ago, RSD1 said:

If you did that in front of me, I wouldn't have a clue what you were doing. And what is your actual definition of the term "pow wow"?
 

“Pow wow” traditionally refers to an informal discussion or meeting to share ideas and not Native American Indians per se.
 

I believe pow wow might've also been used in the past to discuss a gathering of American Indians, but that's not a reference that most people would recognize. 
 

So how could anyone even know that, whatever the hand gesture was that you made, has anything to do with Native American Indians?
 

Meanwhile, a Thai gives a smile in a confusing moment like that, whereas another Westerner might've just stayed quiet, and raised an eyebrow with a look of bewilderment. 

It's an obviously offensive very dated pop culture way to refer to Native Americans (who we just called Indians back then) that I picked up in my youth. So it was dumb. As posted before I am well aware of what a pow wow is. I wasn't trying to be accurate about what a pow wow actually is with the gesture. I was trying to communicate obviously without any thought about it. 

 

I wouldn't have done it in front of you. You're fluent in English. It was the first (and last) time I've ever done it to anyone. When I said I picked it up from pop culture, I don't mean that I did it myself back then. But I saw others doing it in old movies more than anything and the meaning was clearly to refer to Native Americans in a silly stereotypical way. Considering the consensus that the Thai guy didn't get my meaning, it must have been super hilarious for him to see that. Farang baa! No harm, no foul, he got a chuckle.

[RSD1]

12 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

It's an obviously offensive very dated pop culture way to refer to Native Americans (who we just called Indians back then) that I picked up in my youth. So it was dumb. As posted before I am well aware of what a pow wow is. I wasn't trying to be accurate about what a pow wow actually is with the gesture. I was trying to communicate obviously without any thought about it. 

 

I wouldn't have done it in front of you. You're fluent in English. It was the first time (and last) time I've ever done it to anyone. When I said I picked it up from pop culture, I don't mean that I did it myself back then. But I saw others doing it like in old movies more than anything and the meaning was clearly to refer to Native Americans in a silly stereotypical way. Considering the consensus that the Thai guy didn't get my meaning, it must have been super hilarious to him to see that. Farang baa! No harm, no foul, he got a chuckle.

No problem. Understood you realize your error now. Got it, I think. But what hand gesture did you actually do? I can't really envision the moment.
 

According to YouTube, pow wow is also a native American dance, but I can't imagine you performed anything similar to this: 
 

https://youtube.com/shorts/-c1rDAsr9PE
 

I suggest that you take a video of yourself, performing your pow wow hand movements, upload it to YouTube and then share the link with us so that we can all have a better understanding of what actually transpired. 

[Ralf001]

On 1/17/2025 at 5:07 PM, Jingthing said:

 

 

Have you had such POW WOW moments talking to Thais?

 

 

 

No.

[simon43]

3 hours ago, short-Timer said:

Me: What is the correct word in Thai for American Indians?

 

ChatGPT: In Thai, the correct term for American Indians (the indigenous peoples of the Americas) is:

 

อินเดียนแดง (pronounced In-di-an-daeng).

• อินเดียน (In-di-an) refers to “Indian.”

• แดง (Daeng) means “red,” referencing the historical term “Red Indian,” which is considered outdated and potentially offensive in English but is still used in some contexts in Thai.

 

Alternatively, a more respectful term can be:

 

ชนพื้นเมืองอเมริกัน (pronounced Chon Phuen Mueang Amerikaan), which directly translates to “Native Americans” or “Indigenous Peoples of America.”

Thanks! I will advertise this information to all the Thais who have expressed complete ignorance of these terms....

[Rampant Rabbit]

6 hours ago, Jingthing said:

That's a cringey but good reference.

I have overheard f-rangs many times say chocolate man to Thais who presumably would never say that to other f-rangs. That's one Thais would definitely get.

 

When I grew up though calling Washington D.C. chocolate city was done by everybody and not considered offensive. But then people stopped doing that. Go figure.

 

Update on this -- D.C. people including black people STILL call it Chocolate City in a non-offensive context. So I was wrong about that. But D.C. over time has become LESS black. In my view the U.S. city that represents black dominance and pride the best is no longer D.C. It is ATLANTA.

I once had a  customer  ask me for the colour negro brown.........I was in construction doing some paintwork, they meant it with no offence whatsoever, it was  saying of her time, she was in her mid 90's when she said it and that was in 1990. People take waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too  much offense at bugga  all.

Even the stupid built in censor on here wont let me put the word N I G G E.... R as thats what she said exactly

[Evil Penevil]

On 1/17/2025 at 5:07 AM, Jingthing said:

... so I then put my hand to my mouth moving it back and forth and said POW WOW Indians!

 

You seem to have confused  your Native American movie stereotypes.  Pow wow is the word used in English to indicate a social gathering that features traditional Native American dance. In movies and TV shows, it erroneously came to mean any sort of meeting where discussion plays a central role.  Pow wow has nothing to do with the war chant used by the Crow tribe that involved slapping the palm of the hand against the mouth while whooping.

 

You may have been thinking about the "How" open palm greeting used by the Lakota tribes.   "How"  was the English approximation of the word Lakota men used to greet other men.  The open palm up, like shaking hands in Western culture, indicated friendly intent because of the lack of a weapon.  It became a widespread stereotype and symbol of Native American culture in U.S. westtern movies and TV shows, even though the  use in real life had been limited to the Lakota.

 

[short-Timer]

33 minutes ago, simon43 said:

Thanks! I will advertise this information to all the Thais who have expressed complete ignorance of these terms....

"India Daeng" is the word I was also taught by adult Thai friends many decades ago. Since I never studied Thai formally, all of my Thai vocabulary was acquired through conversations with Thais and I've never heard any other word in conversation used by Thais to reference American Indians.
 

Also, Thai dictionary references will reflect "Indian Daeng", but I've always only ever heard it pronounced by Thais without the N on Indian. Mainly I assume because "Indian" (with the N) would be too difficult for them to pronounce. In addition, when they refer to Indians from India, they call them "Khon India" in Thai, again, leaving off the letter N at the end. 
 

Anyway, I don't think we need to continue to go on about this as this whole debate on the use of correct Thai vocabulary on this topic has seemingly been put to rest now. 

[short-Timer]

35 minutes ago, Evil Penevil said:

You may have been thinking about the "How" open palm greeting used by the Lakota tribes.

I suppose he wasn’t really thinking anything at all. He was merely trying to get his point across but lacked the vocabulary to do so, thus he likely recalled a vague association between the word ‘pow-wow’ and American Indians, though he had no clear understanding of its meaning.
 

Then, on impulse, he made a clumsy hand gesture to his mouth that could have been mistaken for a crude mimicry of a homosexual sex act. Then the Thai man smiled, mainly out of embarrassment, and all the while eagerly anticipating the end of the haircut.

[Jingthing]

46 minutes ago, Evil Penevil said:

 

You seem to have confused  your Native American movie stereotypes.  Pow wow is the word used in English to indicate a social gathering that features traditional Native American dance. In movies and TV shows, it erroneously came to mean any sort of meeting where discussion plays a central role.  Pow wow has nothing to do with the war chant used by the Crow tribe that involved slapping the palm of the hand against the mouth while whooping.

 

You may have been thinking about the "How" open palm greeting used by the Lakota tribes.   "How"  was the English approximation of the word Lakota men used to greet other men.  The open palm up, like shaking hands in Western culture, indicated friendly intent because of the lack of a weapon.  It became a widespread stereotype and symbol of Native American culture in U.S. westtern movies and TV shows, even though the  use in real life had been limited to the Lakota.

 

Again I knew and know what pow wow means. Not confused about that at all. You seem to lack reading comprehension though. 

[Jingthing]

54 minutes ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

I once had a  customer  ask me for the colour negro brown.........I was in construction doing some paintwork, they meant it with no offence whatsoever, it was  saying of her time, she was in her mid 90's when she said it and that was in 1990. People take waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too  much offense at bugga  all.

Even the stupid built in censor on here wont let me put the word N I G G E.... R as thats what she said exactly

Perhaps a Spanish speaker.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, RSD1 said:

No problem. Understood you realize your error now. Got it, I think. But what hand gesture did you actually do? I can't really envision the moment.
 

According to YouTube, pow wow is also a native American dance, but I can't imagine you performed anything similar to this: 
 

https://youtube.com/shorts/-c1rDAsr9PE
 

I suggest that you take a video of yourself, performing your pow wow hand movements, upload it to YouTube and then share the link with us so that we can all have a better understanding of what actually transpired. 

In these movies which obviously made an impression on me the native Americans (usually played my white actors in red face or sometimes Chinese people) were pictured dancing around making rhythmic pow wow noises, doing the previously described hand gesture, and yes, DANCING rather wildly about the place perhaps in circles. Likely also sometimes including drumming and other chanting noises. On the night in question, I did omit the possibly important dancing part. These movies weren't saying that such scenes literally meant native Americans, but rather there was that stereotypical association established with their pop cultural depiction.  At least this is how I remember it. I did do a lot of drugs in my hippie phase. That was well before my turquoise bolo tie phase.

[Bday Prang]

On 1/17/2025 at 5:07 PM, Jingthing said:

I did something surprising (to myself) recently.

I was talking to a Thai who had limited English and wanted to express a thought about native Americans, what others might call American Indians, indigenous people, First Nations, etc.

But my first impulse in order to actually effectively communicate the thought was to first say Indians but realizing that sounds like from India to a Thai so I then put my hand to my mouth moving it back and forth and said POW WOW Indians! OMG -- what had possessed me?

So racist. I don't think I've ever said or gestured POW WOW Indians before in my life. But he understood immediately, smiled and didn't try to cancel me. 

I have no regrets. Sometimes you just want to communicate. But still a bit surprised that I did that.

 

Have you had such POW WOW moments talking to Thais?

 

 

not racist at all.