How safe is the retirement visa as a strategy to live in Thailand permanently?

[amexpat]

On 1/31/2025 at 2:13 PM, cheerz said:

So many here bitch over what other do, mind your own business, it's their life your not paying there way. If they use a agent to complete their 12 month visas it's their business, spend your money not theirs.

Cool, as long as they are not trying to scare others into wasting money on agents. 

 

[nauseus]

On 1/31/2025 at 6:45 AM, Hummin said:

If you are on fb check their expat page and market pages for Korat. 

 

It is quite a few years ago, 2018, I did rent a fortuner for 9k a month, so I doubt the prices have doubled since then. 

 

I used to see car offers quite often until I quit fb last year, and long term rentals where advertised  from 8k and up. 

 

Some of these rental businesses don't last long - now I see why.

[KannikaP]

On 1/30/2025 at 12:55 PM, Cameroni said:

 

I went to Pattaya because I had iron-clad trust  in this agency, because they got me out of a jam before. But I  could do either, go to Pattaya again or use CM.

 

I thought Pattaya was cheaper, they charged 35000, but then I had to do a second Pattaya trip that cost 10000 on top, because the Bank changed rules. So not much saving to CM, but I really trust this agent.

Give us all his name please, for future reference if ever needed.

[DrJack54]

Off topic post removed. 

[Peabody]

On 1/30/2025 at 12:25 PM, DrJack54 said:

I assume that the agent took you to Jomitien immigration.

In any event dont concern yourself with viability of agent.

If you wish to change to doing extensions yourself that's possible however will require starting over. 

Can you explain, please? I'm asking because last year I dipped below 800K for 2 weeks

during the 2-month "pre-seasoning" that Jomtien insists on. I had full funds in the bank well before I applied. I used a well-known and recommended agent off Beach Rd in Pattaya to do my extension for me. First time in 11 years I used an agent.

Are you saying I would have trouble if I extended by myself next year and saved the 7K agent fee?

[BrandonJT]

2 hours ago, Peabody said:

Can you explain, please? I'm asking because last year I dipped below 800K for 2 weeks

during the 2-month "pre-seasoning" that Jomtien insists on. I had full funds in the bank well before I applied. I used a well-known and recommended agent off Beach Rd in Pattaya to do my extension for me. First time in 11 years I used an agent.

Are you saying I would have trouble if I extended by myself next year and saved the 7K agent fee?

Possibly.  But since you've already been getting annual extensions it might be possible to do yourself.

Is your extension from Jomtien office and not some far flung province? This is one of the reasons people cannot do the next extension on their own.

 

The other is that when you switch to non-O visa inside Thailand with a Pattaya agent, they get both the 90 day non-O and the 1-year extension all in the same day generally.  And if both of those in your passport have the same date, every immigration office in Thailand knows you used an agent and will tell you to do so again.

 

But in your cause if neither of the above applies, and you have the required funds in your bank account for the entire year previous, you can likely do it on your own next time.

[DrJack54]

5 hours ago, Peabody said:

Can you explain, please? I'm asking because last year I dipped below 800K for 2 weeks

during the 2-month "pre-seasoning" that Jomtien insists on. I had full funds in the bank well before I applied

First up 800k seasoned for 2 months prior to application for extension is not a "Jomitien thing".

All offices require that.

So without an agent likely that your application would be rejected.

For your next extension you may have an issue (unlikely) as immigration can and often do look at the bank book back to before last application. 

Your bank book would show non compliance. 

BTW: how much was the "dip below" and do you have another bank account. 

[jerrymahoney]

On 1/31/2025 at 2:13 PM, cheerz said:

So many here bitch over what other do, mind your own business, it's their life your not paying there way. If they use a agent to complete their 12 month visas it's their business, spend your money not theirs.

If I want to bitch about what others do, as long as it is not directed at you personally, it's none of your business.

[save the frogs]

People complain about having to keep the 800K in a local thai bank.

But it might actually be a hedge against currency depreciating back home? 

 

[DrJack54]

39 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

People complain about having to keep the 800K in a local thai bank.

But it might actually be a hedge against currency depreciating back home? 

 

Think most folk complain about the 800k locked in Thai bank with extremely low interest are those aware of concept of opportunity cost.

My super fund (cBus) has the following returns since inception..

Meaning loss of ~65k/yr.

In addition the funds in Thai bank cannot be used to live off or for such things as medical emergency. 

By contrast the Non O marriage has very sweet financial requirements.

 

Historical returns % (crediting rate) to 30 June 2024
1 year	8.35%
5 years p.a.	6.43%
10 years p.a.	7.73%
Since inception p.a.	8.87%

[oldcpu]

5 hours ago, save the frogs said:

People complain about having to keep the 800K in a local thai bank.

But it might actually be a hedge against currency depreciating back home? 

 

 

Well stated and very polite.

 

If I may  be a bit less polite, the past year the Thai baht is up:

* 9% vs the euro

*  6% vs the US$

*  9% vis the AUS$

* 11.8% vs the NZ$

 

800k THB in Thailand bank, for the past year has done better than similar in foreign accounts outside of Thailand.

 

So to think one is doing better with a foreign currency account in a foreign country, compared to a Thai bank account getting a measly 1.5% interest ?? is not always the full picture.  IMHO - of course.

[DrJack54]

11 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

So to think one is doing better with a foreign currency account in a foreign country, compared to a Thai bank account getting a measly 1.5% interest ?? is not always the full picture.

Do not understand that at all.

The funds kept in Thai bank account do nothing. The appreciation against foreign currencies is cash in when? 

When you stop living in Thailand and can cease need for funds in bank.

They have to be maintained to live in Thailand. 

Obvious alternative would be agent

On the other hand funds kept in shares etc are earning approx 8% 

[oldcpu]

21 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Do not understand that at all.

The funds kept in Thai bank account do nothing. The appreciation against foreign currencies is cash in when? 

 

The math as I understand it ... (where it all boils down to the Thai baht currently being very strong compared to 1 year ago vs Australian dollar).

 

Looking at the Australian Dollar.

 

A year ago, 800k THB was worth 800,000 THB x 0.043191 = $34,553 AUD$

 

Today that 800k THB in a Thai bank is worth 800k THB x 0.047411 = $37,929 AUD$.  Add to that 1.5% interest (in THB & convert to AUS$) and one has $38,498 AUS$.  ie relative to the AUS$, one has seen the value of their THB (converted) to AUS$ increase by $3,945 AUD$

 

Conversely a year ago $34,553 AUD in an an Australian bank in Australia, at 8.5% interest, today is worth only $37,490 AUS$.

 

So the person who kept the 800K THB in a Thai bank actually saw their THB increase (compared to keeping in Australia) by $38,498 - $37,490 = $1,008 AUD$

 

They are better off by $1,008 AUS$ . i.e. ~2.9% better off on that 800K amount because the 800k THB  was kept in Thailand (instead of  keeping the money in Australia given a weak Australian currency).

 

Of course if the AUD$ had been stronger vs the Thai baht, this would have been different.

 

These things are not always as straight forward as one may think..

 

 

[DrJack54]

11 hours ago, oldcpu said:

So the person who kept the 800K THB in a Thai bank actually saw their THB increse by $38,498 - $37,490 = $1,008 AUD$

And that will only be realized when the funds are sent back to Oz .

Meaning not living in Thailand any more.

If for example you continue living in Thailand and eg use an agent then the 800b is same value as previously for use in Thailand.

In any event agree to disagree.

We going off topic to some extent

[save the frogs]

16 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Think most folk complain about the 800k locked in Thai bank with extremely low interest are those aware of concept of opportunity cost.

My super fund (cBus) has the following returns since inception..

Meaning loss of ~65k/yr.

In addition the funds in Thai bank cannot be used to live off or for such things as medical emergency. 

By contrast the Non O marriage has very sweet financial requirements.

 

Historical returns % (crediting rate) to 30 June 2024
1 year	8.35%
5 years p.a.	6.43%
10 years p.a.	7.73%
Since inception p.a.	8.87%

 

You are a financial whiz kid.

I never made returns anywhere close to that.

 

[DrJack54]

49 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

 

You are a financial whiz kid.

I never made returns anywhere close to that.

 

Bit of sarcasm. No skill to it. 

In Oz we have Superannuation fund that is compulsory during working life. Those funds over many years yield ~8% + 

So indeed locking up 800k in a Thai bank is dumb. 

And here I am all these years using money in bank for retirement extensions = stupid.

 

[Rob Browder]

On 2/3/2025 at 8:09 AM, KhunLA said:

I don't believe they have changed the 0 non immigrant visa, for retirement or marriage, since I've been here, 25 yrs.    They have enforced more of the rules, to stop people abusing it.  Thank your fellow expats for that.   But the requirements have not changed, I don't think, nothing noticeable.

 

The did add health insurance to the 0-A visa, during covid, and that makes sense, since more than a few were stiffing hospitals.

 

0 non immigrant is easy to get & extend yearly, if you qualify, and all simple enough to do.  After a tester, of a year or 2, if TH isn't for you, you can always leave, or if lovin' it, decide where to stay.

 

More than enough people to assist without the scare mongering that goes on, from those that failed.

They significantly changed the financials for the Non-O Retirement extension a few years back.  They obviously don't care about "abuse," because there are dozens of agents, who advertise publicly, who facilitate skipping the financials entirely, with Immigration's cooperation. 

You can thank Immigration 100% for the changes, whose only purpose was increasing the flow of money into their pockets via agents.  This "blame our fellows" bit is like when the mafioso in the movie shoots the hostage and says, "See, look what you made me do." 

 

And, again, knowing that Immigration works this way, and can change the "rules" at any time, is not "scare-mongering" - it is being prepared.  If one can afford agent-money, it is very unlikely one needs to be "scared" at all.  Even less so, if one is prepared to leave Thailand for somewhere else, if things change more dramatically. 

[Rob Browder]

On 2/3/2025 at 5:24 PM, KhunHeineken said:

Good post. 

 

Can I ask which airport?  I have a friend that holidays here three times a year. 

From memory, was one of the Bangkok airports.  If your friend's entries are spaced fairly evenly, and short-stays, it is unlikely he will have an issue.  If he runs the full 60-days on those visits, and especially if adds the extension, there is a greater chance of problems.  But, there is are "services" which allow unlimited visa-exempt entries by air - even back-to-back - see:

https://aseannow.com/topic/1345519-safe-entry-services-bkk-airport/

... and ...
https://aseannow.com/topic/1336926-setv-metv-still-around-now-that-visa-exempts-are-now-60-days/?do=findComment&comment=19217493

 

[KhunLA]

46 minutes ago, Rob Browder said:

They significantly changed the financials for the Non-O Retirement extension a few years back.  They obviously don't care about "abuse," because there are dozens of agents, who advertise publicly, who facilitate skipping the financials entirely, with Immigration's cooperation. 

You can thank Immigration 100% for the changes, whose only purpose was increasing the flow of money into their pockets via agents.  This "blame our fellows" bit is like when the mafioso in the movie shoots the hostage and says, "See, look what you made me do." 

 

And, again, knowing that Immigration works this way, and can change the "rules" at any time, is not "scare-mongering" - it is being prepared.  If one can afford agent-money, it is very unlikely one needs to be "scared" at all.  Even less so, if one is prepared to leave Thailand for somewhere else, if things change more dramatically. 

If you can't make the financials for an 0 non immigrant visa, then one should think hard, if it's a good decision to live overseas without the safety nets of home country.

 

400k & 800k is the minimum for a reason, so 'you' have enough to live on, even in case of an oops.

 

When a single person can live on 20k a month, or 40k comfortably, that leaves quite a bit every year to save for an oops, if not having an oops fund already, or health insurance.

 

Married person has the advantage of universal healthcare for the wife & kids, so again 40k should be enough.

[Peabody]

On 2/5/2025 at 2:32 AM, BrandonJT said:

Possibly.  But since you've already been getting annual extensions it might be possible to do yourself.

Is your extension from Jomtien office and not some far flung province? This is one of the reasons people cannot do the next extension on their own.

 

The other is that when you switch to non-O visa inside Thailand with a Pattaya agent, they get both the 90 day non-O and the 1-year extension all in the same day generally.  And if both of those in your passport have the same date, every immigration office in Thailand knows you used an agent and will tell you to do so again.

 

But in your cause if neither of the above applies, and you have the required funds in your bank account for the entire year previous, you can likely do it on your own next time.

Is your extension from Jomtien office and not some far flung province? This is one of the reasons people cannot do the next extension on their own.
Jomtien. I live in PTY

 

The other is that when you switch to non-O visa inside Thailand with a Pattaya agent, they get both the 90 day non-O and the 1-year extension all in the same day generally.  And if both of those in your passport have the same date, every immigration office in Thailand knows you used an agent and will tell you to do so again.
I was already at the end of a 1-year extension. I did the non-O/extension by myself a couple of years ago, no agent. So I didn't  switch visa types.

 

But in your cause if neither of the above applies, and you have the required funds in your bank account for the entire year previous, you can likely do it on your own next time.
Yes I have the required funds. I dipped below the minimum for a couple of weeks during the 2-month pre-seasoning, when my SSA was delayed, but had the full funds in my acct when I used the agent. I provided the agent with my bank statements

Thanks for your answers

[KhunHeineken]

4 hours ago, Rob Browder said:

From memory, was one of the Bangkok airports.  If your friend's entries are spaced fairly evenly, and short-stays, it is unlikely he will have an issue.  If he runs the full 60-days on those visits, and especially if adds the extension, there is a greater chance of problems.  But, there is are "services" which allow unlimited visa-exempt entries by air - even back-to-back - see:

https://aseannow.com/topic/1345519-safe-entry-services-bkk-airport/

... and ...
https://aseannow.com/topic/1336926-setv-metv-still-around-now-that-visa-exempts-are-now-60-days/?do=findComment&comment=19217493

 

Thanks for the info.  I'll pass it on.