What are your experiences with the new tax laws?????

[statman78]

59 minutes ago, TheAppletons said:

 

  Presumably, then, your accountant filed a Thai tax return showing zero assessable income and thus zero tax owed?  

Yes

[worrab]

19 hours ago, CK1980 said:

So, if you are getting paid by a UK company but stay in Thailand for over 180 days then you pay tax in Thailand and the DTA will avoid paying tax in the UK. I may be wrong.

Under DTA, you will pay tax in UK. It is very, very difficult to opt out of paying tax in UK, if not impossible! Then as a Thai tax resident, the tax paid in UK will be credited against any tax owing in Thailand. Proof of this would be a P60. 
Therefore you have only paid the tax once and no tax to pay in Thailand.

[Sandboxer]

Would you go to a crocodile show here and be that one volunteer from the audience who sticks his head into a dinosaur's mouth, trusting the words of a "professional" Thai croc trainer that everything will be "no plomplem"..???

 

If yes, the go right ahead you silly little tax simps.

[ElwoodP]

Off topic posts removed.

[JimGant]

23 hours ago, Presnock said:

Now the US is changing some tax laws so that those Americans being tax resident in foreign  countries can opt out of US taxes and just pay Thailand

What are you talking about? Certainly not the Earned Income Tax Credit, which has been around 50 years? And, I got a 'no joy' when I tried to log into your 'taxpayer advocate' link....

 

Nope. The 'saving clause' found in all US DTAs allows the US to tax all income regardless of what the DTA says (with a few exceptions, like alimony). Yes, in these situations the US is secondary tax authority -- and has to reduce its tax bill with a credit for Thai taxes paid.  But there is no option to "opt out" for filing and paying US taxes (if not overwhelmed by the tax credit).

 

I hope you're not referring to the Thomas Carden scheme, where he maintains (incorrectly) that there's an exclusion in the Thai-US DTA, allowing a US citizen, who's a Thai tax resident, to not pay US taxes on his IRA cashout, remitted to Thailand?

[ukrules]

6 hours ago, topt said:

Well there is definitely a difference of opinion amongst both posters on here and a couple of the "tax"advisory companies. 

ExpatTax believe it to only be savings in the bank for example.

 

They're wrong if they are saying this, the taxable event and the date it happens is all that matters.
 

[khunPer]

On 2/10/2025 at 10:56 AM, jingjai9 said:

Any stories from people who have already filed their Thai taxes?

 

Any warnings we should know about?

 

Any useful information to pass on?

There is another AN-thread here with some quite helpful information:

 

 

[khunPer]

The first thing to do as tax resident foreigner in Thailand, is to check the DTA (Double Taxation Agreement) between Thailand and one's home country. Find the clauses that fits your income that are brought into Thailand. It's said that the DTAs are quite different from country to country, so the only general rules is: You are not being double taxed, but you will be taxed the highest income tax in question.

 

Some DTAs might exclude taxation of retirement pension in Thailand, if the pension is already taxed in one's home country. In another thread (link in post above), a big boss in a local tax depart said that such pension shall not be included in one's tax report.

 

Money that are brught into Thailand, which is not proven savings from 2023 or earlier, and not already income taxed, are taxable in Thailand. That money also includes ATM-withdrawals on foreign credit cards, according to an ASEAN NOW-news story.

 

You have a personal deduction of 60,000 baht and other deductions depending of age and expenses. And the first 150,000 baht income after deductions is not taxed. So, for most of us with lower foreign transfers – and especially with some of the income already taxed in our home country, like retirement pensions – the Thai income tax will be between 0 and very low.

 

The common practise is that you don't need to file an tex return form, if you have no taxable income; however, it is possible to file a 0-taxable foreign income in the form.

 

My Danish home country's tax department issued me a statement in English, where they state that my retirement pension are fully taxed by them. I had an uanounced visit from a kind Thai tax-officer that accepted this statement, and she also saw another letter from my home country's tax department, in where they had issued a receipt for previous three years income tax. The officers only comment was a surprice over the very high tax I had already paid...

[SHA 2 BKK]

1 hour ago, khunPer said:

I had an uanounced visit from a kind Thai tax-officer that accepted this statement, and she also saw another letter from my home country's tax department, in where they had issued a receipt for previous three years income tax. The officers only comment was a surprice over the very high tax I had already paid...

 

Can you tell us a little more about the above?  Did the official come to your residence?  Have you filed taxes before in Thailand and thus received a TIN?  Was this recent? Any information would be greatly appreciated.

[EVENKEEL]

On 2/12/2025 at 12:18 AM, Ralf001 said:

What new tax laws ?

My sentiment as well.

[hotandsticky]

On 2/12/2025 at 3:18 PM, Ralf001 said:

What new tax laws ?

 

 

 

+1

[jesimps]

On 2/12/2025 at 3:24 PM, CK1980 said:

I'm no expert but I think you have completely misunderstood what a DTA is. The clue is in the name, DOUBLE tax agreement. It is to avoid paying tax twice, not for 'anti tax heathens' to avoid tax. It is just for specific situations where you are earning money in one place and getting taxed on it, then living in another place where they try and tax it again. 

 

As I said, I think the confusion comes in as the tax should actually be paid in the tax residence country, so the DTA should be used to avoid paying tax in the original country.

 

 

 Unless you're an ex government worker when HMRC filch the tax before paying you, so you have no choice about where you pay tax. This is, I think, why it's included in the DTA. Makes sense.

[oldcpu]

9 hours ago, CharlesHolzhauer said:

Currently, individuals in Thailand are taxed only on remittances.

 

... and taxed on local assessable income if a certain assessable income threshold level is reached.

[scottiejohn]

30 minutes ago, jesimps said:

Makes sense.

Who to?

 

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, jesimps said:

 Unless you're an ex government worker when HMRC filch the tax before paying you, so you have no choice about where you pay tax. This is, I think, why it's included in the DTA. Makes sense.

HMRC will tax all pensions that you draw, regardless of where you live and of any DTAs that are in affect. The only proviso with regards the Thai/UK DTA is that government pensions can only be taxed in the UK. The rest are fair game unless they do not exceed your personal TEDA.

[Jumbo1968]

Another misleading topic, it’s not a new law, it just has never been enforced.

[Unclernie]

On 2/12/2025 at 3:56 PM, Hummin said:

Quick hypothetical question

 

I want to transfer 1,2 million in to my bank account tomorow from my savings, and I am going to stay 7 months this year.

 

I am obligated to pay tax this year?

 

[ukrules]

31 minutes ago, Jumbo1968 said:

Another misleading topic, it’s not a new law, it just has never been enforced.

Nonsense, they changed the way it works back in the 80s - now they reversed that change - and they did it with a 'memo'.

 

It was a memo that introduced the 'previous years income' tax exemption and it was a memo that revoked it.

[jesimps]

12 hours ago, Drumbuie said:

You will be obligated to pay tax on this year's income next year before the end of March. The allowances are generous, the taxation bands are gradual, and I'm checking my calculations with a Thai accountant (friend of a friend) tonight but I'm expecting to pay around half what I'd pay back home. 

In three instalments, with no penalty. 

 

I don't understand the mindset where you live in a country, you expect all the infrastructure and services in that country that are paid for by taxes - and you complain about them frequently -  but you don't want to contribute. 

 

12 hours ago, sandyf said:

I would agree with your first statement but you can be tax resident in more than one jurisdiction. You have to bear in mind that DTA's also specify income that can only be taxed in the original country. This means for many retired expats they cannot avoid being dual tax resident.

The real problem is that highlighted by the OP that if the tax office concerned understands how the DTA should work, if tax has already been deducted there shouldn't be further liability unless they see an underpayment in the original country. For example someone on just a basic UK state pension will not have paid any tax and would then be subject to Thai thresholds. 

Personal taxation is a complicated and wide ranging scenario but for many of us should be relatively simple providing the RD recognise the circumstances and have done their homework.

Quite!  The UK/Thailand DTA clearly states that tax on government employees pension can only be paid in the country where the pension was earned. No matter how much I'd like to pay my tax here (where I've lived for over 18 years) instead of to the UK, HMRC will not allow me to do so. I've no intention of, nor can I afford to pay it out of my own pocket.

[oldcpu]

12 hours ago, Yumthai said:

I would add:

- if not tax exempt by being earned in a year you are not Thai tax resident (ex: non tax resident in 2025 can remit 2025 income tax-free in 2025 and at any time in the future).

 

While that makes sense in terms of what I would like to see,  sadly I am not so certain of that being accurate.

 

Consider  Thai RD Ministerial Instruction Por.162:

 

The resident tax payer, who derive assessable income from ... assets situated outside of Thailand, will hereafter be subject to taxation in Thailand during the year the income is remitted, regardless of when it was earned.  This shall not apply to any foreign-sourced income earned before 1-January-2024.

 

So that suggests the income you earned (when not a tax resident to Thailand) can still potentially be taxed by Thailand in year 2026 or any later year if you remit that income into Thailand. 

 

But  I am not certain there ... as (per what you note) one is NOT a resident tax payer when that income was earned.

 

Having typed the above, dependent on the wording of the DTA of one's  income source country with Thailand, the income earned may not be assessable in Thailand and hence not taxable in Thailand ....  And further if that income earned (when one was not a Thai tax resident) was already taxed by the source country, then one nominally should have a tax credit if there is a DTA with that income source country that one can use to ensure that one is not double taxed by Thailand.

 

So - sad to say ... this could be more complicated.

[khunPer]

8 hours ago, SHA 2 BKK said:

 

Can you tell us a little more about the above?  Did the official come to your residence?  Have you filed taxes before in Thailand and thus received a TIN?  Was this recent? Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Yes, I had a TIN and had filed tax return.

 

As I wrote: "I had an unannounced visit from a kind Thai tax-officer..." that came to my home.

 

But it was not because I had file a tax return, but because all knowing long-term residents from my home country in the area should have a visit to check that they paid income tax either to their home country or to Thailand. They even showed me the full list with names to visit, also to show me that my name was on the list. I know from others that they also had a visit. I was told that it should be done country by country and in co-ordination with the said country's tax authorities. They started with Finland and Denmark.

 

It was a few years ago, so it had nothing to do with the 1st January 2024 change of savings and taxable fund transfers, foreigners staying 180 days or longer in Thailand was already tax residents before 2024.

[henryford1958]

10 hours ago, Moonlover said:

HMRC will tax all pensions that you draw, regardless of where you live and of any DTAs that are in affect. The only proviso with regards the Thai/UK DTA is that government pensions can only be taxed in the UK. The rest are fair game unless they do not exceed your personal TEDA.

 

It would be useful if anyone can quote this exact provision in the DTA that we can show the tax office here, if necessary. The poster Chang50 claimed his tax office refused to accept the DTA.

[Yumthai]

9 hours ago, oldcpu said:

The resident tax payer, who derive assessable income from ... assets situated outside of Thailand, will hereafter be subject to taxation in Thailand during the year the income is remitted, regardless of when it was earned.  This shall not apply to any foreign-sourced income earned before 1-January-2024.

 

So that suggests the income you earned (when not a tax resident to Thailand) can still potentially be taxed by Thailand in year 2026 or any later year if you remit that income into Thailand. 

You quoted rightly The resident tax payer. In where does this statement mention or concern non tax residents?

 

You're interpreting, as some others, that statement applies regardless of the tax residence status in the later years. But why? It is always mentioned "tax resident" or "resident (meaning tax resident)" in any official written statement I can find.

 

I'm no lawyer but, until amended, the tax law still says:

"Taxpayers are classified into “resident” and “non-resident”. “Resident” means any person residing in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating more than 180 days in any tax (calendar) year. A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand. A non-resident is, however, subject to tax only on income from sources in Thailand."

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html

 

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, henryford1958 said:

 

It would be useful if anyone can quote this exact provision in the DTA that we can show the tax office here, if necessary. The poster Chang50 claimed his tax office refused to accept the DTA.

It's all here. All you have to do is google it!

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a80bddc40f0b623026953eb/uk-thailand-dtc180281_-_in_force.pdf

[Presnock]

FYI: bill re-introduced in Congress to cease US taxes on social security

https://www.myfederalretirement.com/hr-1040-social-security

[WDSmart]

My experience with the new tax laws is exemplified by an informal survey I took among the ex-pat members of my golf club. 14 out of 15 of them said they were going to ignore them.

[JimGant]

11 hours ago, oldcpu said:

The resident tax payer, who derive assessable income from ... assets situated outside of Thailand, will hereafter be subject to taxation in Thailand during the year the income is remitted, regardless of when it was earned.  This shall not apply to any foreign-sourced income earned before 1-January-2024.

 

So that suggests the income you earned (when not a tax resident to Thailand) can still potentially be taxed by Thailand in year 2026 or any later year if you remit that income into Thailand. 

 

Joe Blow retires in home country in 2025. He has a private pension, which he salts away in a savings account established in 2025. He does the same for his private pensions earned in 2026 thru 2032 -- living off of only his social security. In 2033 Joe Blow moves to Thailand, and is here most of the year and is thus a tax resident.

 

Joe Blow wires all his 2025-2032 savings to Thailand in 2033. Sanity and common sense would dictate that Thailand has no tax claim against those salted away private pensions, even tho' the DTA says Thailand has primary taxation rights on private pensions. And, of course, we wouldn't even be having this discussion, if Thailand just taxed income, and not remitted income. Of course, the TRD MFWIC might be insane, with no common sense.....

 

The other side of the coin..... Fat cat Thai billionaire, a tax resident of Thailand, earns zillions of dollars abroad, but never remits it to Thailand. Now, this year, 2025, he leaves Thailand for 7 months -- and remits those zillions in foreign income. Would they be taxable when bounced against this: A non-resident is, however, subject to tax only on income from sources in Thailand. Hmmm. If so, certainly give incentive to hop on your yacht and take an extended vacation.

 

 

[oldcpu]

2 hours ago, Yumthai said:

You quoted rightly The resident tax payer. In where does this statement mention or concern non tax residents?

 

You're interpreting, as some others, that statement applies regardless of the tax residence status in the later years. But why? It is always mentioned "tax resident" or "resident (meaning tax resident)" in any official written statement I can find.

 

And if you had read further, you would also have noticed I typed the following:

 

Quote

But  I am not certain there ... as (per what you note) one is NOT a resident tax payer when that income was earned.

...

Having typed the above, dependent on the wording of the DTA of one's  income source country with Thailand, the income earned may not be assessable in Thailand and hence not taxable in Thailand ....  And further if that income earned (when one was not a Thai tax resident) was already taxed by the source country, then one nominally should have a tax credit if there is a DTA with that income source country that one can use to ensure that one is not double taxed by Thailand.

 

I made it clear that residency and accessibility were factors ... as the income could be considered not in the 'assessible' income category.

 

i do thou, think it important, one has documentation to prove the income was earned when one was NOT a resident

 

2 hours ago, Yumthai said:

I'm no lawyer but, until amended, the tax law still says:

"Taxpayers are classified into “resident” and “non-resident”. “Resident” means any person residing in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating more than 180 days in any tax (calendar) year. A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand. A non-resident is, however, subject to tax only on income from sources in Thailand."

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html

 

 

Yep.  No argument from me there.

 

[oldcpu]

17 minutes ago, JimGant said:

 

Joe Blow retires in home country in 2025. He has a private pension, which he salts away in a savings account established in 2025. He does the same for his private pensions earned in 2026 thru 2032 -- living off of only his social security. In 2033 Joe Blow moves to Thailand, and is here most of the year and is thus a tax resident.

 

Joe Blow wires all his 2025-2032 savings to Thailand in 2033. Sanity and common sense would dictate that Thailand has no tax claim against those salted away private pensions, even tho' the DTA says Thailand has primary taxation rights on private pensions.

 

I share your view ... with the added caveat that Joe Blow better have very good income records for any moneys remitted.

 

 

17 minutes ago, JimGant said:

The other side of the coin..... Fat cat Thai billionaire, a tax resident of Thailand, earns zillions of dollars abroad, but never remits it to Thailand. Now, this year, 2025, he leaves Thailand for 7 months -- and remits those zillions in foreign income. Would they be taxable when bounced against this: A non-resident is, however, subject to tax only on income from sources in Thailand. Hmmm. If so, certainly give incentive to hop on your yacht and take an extended vacation.

 

Looks to me that your hypothetical Thai billionaire (zillionaire ?  since he transferred zillions) knows how to legally manage his tax exposure.

[SHA 2 BKK]

15 hours ago, khunPer said:

Yes, I had a TIN and had filed tax return.

 

As I wrote: "I had an unannounced visit from a kind Thai tax-officer..." that came to my home.

 

But it was not because I had file a tax return, but because all knowing long-term residents from my home country in the area should have a visit to check that they paid income tax either to their home country or to Thailand. They even showed me the full list with names to visit, also to show me that my name was on the list. I know from others that they also had a visit. I was told that it should be done country by country and in co-ordination with the said country's tax authorities. They started with Finland and Denmark.

 

It was a few years ago, so it had nothing to do with the 1st January 2024 change of savings and taxable fund transfers, foreigners staying 180 days or longer in Thailand was already tax residents before 2024.

Thank you Good Sir for the information and update.  I wish you the best.   Very much appreciated.