BREAKING NEWS Trump Signals Potential Meeting with Putin in Saudi Arabia Amid Ukraine War Talks

[scottiejohn]

28 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

If you think it's a plan then your fealty is unlimited. 

What fealty does he have except to it's lord and masters Putin and Trump (in that order)?

[Hanaguma]

1 hour ago, Phulublub said:

The trouble with giving Putin what it wants is that next time he does the same (more of Ukraine? Moldova?  Latvia? A bit of Poland?) does everyone look the other way....and the time after that.

 

And for those who say "Poland, Latvia are in NATO"- do we all think it a certainty that a USA under Trump would uphold Article 5 (which, let us not forget, has been invoked exactly ONCE snce NATO was formed and for who?  Yes - the rest of NATO stood with USA after 9/11)

 

PH

Whether or not the US contributes to any defence of a NATO country shouldnt prevent the European members from participating. They are more than welcome to send in their troops and fight the Russian scourge. 

[Hanaguma]

3 hours ago, RayC said:

 

Imo the EU, NATO and the majority of the individual member states have mishandled the relationship with Russia. Putin's intentions were clear from, at least, 2014 and a strong response was required then. Unfortunately, it did not happen.

 

You state, quite correctly imo, that Ukraine cannot now win without direct NATO military intervention. Imo the possibility of this happening should be an option.

 

Therefore, rather than Trump's opening gambit being effectively appeasement, I would have preferred the telephone call to have progressed along the following lines: I (Trump) recognise 1) that you (Putin) have a genuine concern regarding the treatment of Russian speakers in the Donbass and that there should be measures taken to safeguard their safety and to ensure that they are represented fully in the decision-making process in the region 2) you have a genuine concern regarding the strategic importance of Crimea and measures should be enacted to ensure that Russia does not feel threatened in this region 3) you have concerns about the possibility of Ukraine becoming a member of NATO. While I strongly believe in the right of self-determination (both for Ukraine and NATO), I again accept that you have a genuine concern. Again, discussions can be held to attempt to alleviate your fears.

 

In order for any discussions to take place there has to be an immediate cessation of hostilities. During the ceasefire, existing terrorital positions will be maintained. However, it should not be assumed that the initial positions will be the starting point for negotiations. Indeed, my view is that the pre-war borders should be re-established. If you do not accept these conditions then we will have no alternative but to deploy NATO resources directly in order to support Ukraine.

 

Do I think that this will happen? No. Do I think that it should happen? A guarded 'Yes' but I recognise that it is a strategy fraught with danger (of uncontrollable) escalation. Moreover - and you are more knowledgeable about this aspect than me - the US political establishment (and public?) may well not support it. 

 

However, you did ask for alternatives.

Thanks, that is a reasonable alternative. Sad that others can only keep bleating out what they consider to be funny quips and 'gotchas' instead of articulating anything remotely serious. 

[Lacessit]

47 minutes ago, mogandave said:

Poor, poor lefty.

If attacking me for posting fact is all you've got, I feel sorry for those who had the unenviable task of teaching you.

[scottiejohn]

2 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

If attacking me for posting fact is all you've got, I feel sorry for those who had the unenviable task of teaching you.

I don't think it had any teachers going by the (lack of) standards of it's posts!

[scottiejohn]

10 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Thanks, that is a reasonable alternative. Sad that others can only keep bleating out what they consider to be funny quips and 'gotchas' instead of articulating anything remotely serious. 

I assume that includes the content, or lack thereof, of your post above

[kimothai]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

Make sure a good negotiator is in charge, and keep Trump as far away from the negotiating table as possible. As many of us know he is one of the worst negotiators on the planet, and he tends to cave in to dictators and despots. He's shown a history of that in his first Administration. 

Well, I did ask you what YOUR plan was.  Clearly you have NO plan other than to complain about Trump (as I suspected).

[mogandave]

16 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

If attacking me for posting fact is all you've got, I feel sorry for those who had the unenviable task of teaching you.

I feel sorry for you.

[candide]

33 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

If attacking me for posting fact is all you've got, I feel sorry for those who had the unenviable task of teaching you.

It seems to be a consistent pattern across several threads...

 

I'm wondering if he's not another impersonation of Yellowtail. Once I replied to Yellowtail and Morgandave replied to me: I never said that! 🙂

Then there is also the use of the same expressions such as poor lefties, et ..

[scottiejohn]

14 minutes ago, mogandave said:

I feel sorry for you.

Not as much as we feel sorry for about you!

[Yellowtail]

JD Vance getting ready to speak at the Munich Security Conference, anyone else watching? 

[Tug]

23 hours ago, mogandave said:

Did Putin move on Ukraine during Trump’s watch? 

 

No. 

Why on earth would he do that on trumps first (administration)?if you recall trump was withholding earmarked military aid as he tryed to extort lies from Ukraine to slander Joe Biden ……Putin ain’t stupid he waited then his asset lost the election THEN he went to war because he knew a decent American president wouldn’t let him get away with it.

[hotsun]

3 minutes ago, Tug said:

Why on earth would he do that on trumps first (administration)?if you recall trump was withholding earmarked military aid as he tryed to extort lies from Ukraine to slander Joe Biden ……Putin ain’t stupid he waited then his asset lost the election THEN he went to war because he knew a decent American president wouldn’t let him get away with it.

He annexed crimea under obama, invaded ukraine under biden. Its all on the democrats

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, hotsun said:

He annexed crimea under obama, invaded ukraine under biden. Its all on the democrats

It's all on Putin actually. 

[mogandave]

6 minutes ago, Tug said:

Why on earth would he do that on trumps first (administration)?if you recall trump was withholding earmarked military aid as he tryed to extort lies from Ukraine to slander Joe Biden ……Putin ain’t stupid he waited then his asset lost the election THEN he went to war because he knew a decent American president wouldn’t let him get away with it.

Trump held up weapons to Ukraine for a couple weeks. 

 

Obama refused to ship weapons to Ukraine for eight years. 

 

Biden cancelled weapons shipments to Ukraine the moment he got into office. 

 

Biden also cancelled the sanctions Trump had put on Russia. 

 

[mogandave]

Just now, Jingthing said:

It's all on Putin actually. 

it is all on Putin, so why blame Trump?

[Phulublub]

3 minutes ago, mogandave said:

Obama refused to ship weapons to Ukraine for eight years. 

 

Biden cancelled weapons shipments to Ukraine the moment he got into office. 

I see...so refusing to send weapons to Ukraine is a BAD thing...That being the case I am sure you will join me in looking forward to Trump sending huge quantities shortly.

 

PH

[frank83628]

It really doesnt matter how this is resolved, the screetchy anti Trumper crybaby dinosaur out of touch cold war mentality AN member will bitch n cry regardless, even though the war comes to an end, if Putin agreed to give land back, they'd scream 'not enough' if Putin keeps the land (which his will) they'd scrretch DJT was Putins puppet...proves that old adage,  sticks & stones may break my bones but there will always be something to irritate a screetchy liberal leftist Anti trumper

[Phulublub]

3 hours ago, mogandave said:

 

He does not use the word “promise”, 

 

And again, he’s trying. 

 

And again, as far as I’m concerned, he’s batting 900.

Yeah, because that is the important part ....The linguistic gymnastics are fantastic to behold. 

 

PH

[mogandave]

3 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

I see...so refusing to send weapons to Ukraine is a BAD thing...That being the case I am sure you will join me in looking forward to Trump sending huge quantities shortly.

 

PH

The US is continuing to ship arms to Ukraine, and yes, I support those shipments.

[Tug]

14 minutes ago, hotsun said:

He annexed crimea under obama, invaded ukraine under biden. Its all on the democrats

He stole Ukraine under Obama true that in my view was Obama’s blunder by not nipping that in the bud.under trump putin was getting what he wanted why go to war again putin isn’t stupid then trump lost,he didn’t realize Joe Biden isn’t a pushover like trump.

2 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

It really doesnt matter how this is resolved, the screetchy anti Trumper crybaby dinosaur out of touch cold war mentality AN member will bitch n cry regardless, even though the war comes to an end, if Putin agreed to give land back, they'd scream 'not enough' if Putin keeps the land (which his will) they'd scrretch DJT was Putins puppet...proves that old adage,  sticks & stones may break my bones but there will always be something to irritate a screetchy liberal leftist Anti trumper

Hoooh good one you got in screechy liberal leftist anti trumper lol 😂 anyway if the art of the deal is going in and giving the enemy everything they want it sure doesent leave much for the Ukrainian nation 

[Jingthing]

I am less critical of Obama than Biden as far as the response to Putin's imperialism.

Why?

Because it was clear at the time that Europe was not excited by the theft of Crimea and I don't think there was any chance of a strong NATO response at that time.

It was like, OK, Crimea specifically has a uniquely odd history with Russia, Europe isn't on fire over this, why should the U.S. light the fire?

But under Biden a real coalition happened organically but Biden made the mistake of slow walking the response.

Once Ukraine got through the first few days, he should have given Ukraine all they needed to win quickly and ignore Putin's nuclear fear mongering.

That was the opportunity lost. It could have been over the first year with Ukraine clearly winning.

But at least Biden helped enough with Europe for Ukraine to hold on. 

But Trump is now surrending to Putin at a time of weakness for Russia in their economy.

That is evil.

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

I am less critical of Obama than Biden as far as the response to Putin's imperialism.

Why?

Because it was clear at the time that Europe was not excited by the theft of Crimea and I don't think there was any chance of a strong NATO response at that time.

It was like, OK, Crimea specifically has a specifically odd history, Europe isn't on fire over this, why should the U.S. light the fire?

But under Biden a real coalition happened organically but Biden made the mistake of slow walking the response.

Once Ukraine got through the first few days, he should have given Ukraine all they needed to win quickly and ignore Putin's nuclear fear mongering.

That was the opportunity lost.

But at least Biden helped enough with Europe for Ukraine to hold on. 

But Trump is now surrending to Putin at a time of weakness for Russia in their economy.

That is evil.

Rember the Russian reset? 

 

Remember Obama on the hot mic saying: Tell Vladimeer I'll be flexible on missile defense if he gives me space until after the election? 

 

Remember Obama refusing to provide Ukraine with even defensive weapons? 

 

Remember Trump coming into office, and starting arms shipment to Ukraine?

 

Remember Trump putting sanctions on Russian? 

 

Remember Trump warning NATO to arm up, and to stop dependance on Russian gas? 

 

Remember Biden coming in and canceling arms shipments to Ukraine? 

 

Remember Biden canceling sanctions on Russia? 

 

Remember Afghanistan? 

 

We have no idea what the deal will be. 

[frank83628]

12 minutes ago, Tug said:

He stole Ukraine under Obama true that in my view was Obama’s blunder by not nipping that in the bud.under trump putin was getting what he wanted why go to war again putin isn’t stupid then trump lost,he didn’t realize Joe Biden isn’t a pushover like trump.

Hoooh good one you got in screechy liberal leftist anti trumper lol 😂 anyway if the art of the deal is going in and giving the enemy everything they want it sure doesent leave much for the Ukrainian nation 

Sorry, but who is Obama or any US President  to tell Putin what to do on his borders from the other side of the planet? You need to get off that entitlement high horse.  Remember howbyou cried over Cuba. Hypocrite fools

[frank83628]

36 minutes ago, Tug said:

He stole Ukraine under Obama true that in my view was Obama’s blunder by not nipping that in the bud.under trump putin was getting what he wanted why go to war again putin isn’t stupid then trump lost,he didn’t realize Joe Biden isn’t a pushover like trump.

Hoooh good one you got in screechy liberal leftist anti trumper lol 😂 anyway if the art of the deal is going in and giving the enemy everything they want it sure doesent leave much for the Ukrainian nation 

Well that is the fault of the USA under Biden.

Peace talks on the tablenback I  April 2022, but the US & US stopped them, bloods on your hand you old yanky cold war liberal.

[frank83628]

35 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I am less critical of Obama than Biden as far as the response to Putin's imperialism.

Why?

Because it was clear at the time that Europe was not excited by the theft of Crimea and I don't think there was any chance of a strong NATO response at that time.

It was like, OK, Crimea specifically has a uniquely odd history with Russia, Europe isn't on fire over this, why should the U.S. light the fire?

But under Biden a real coalition happened organically but Biden made the mistake of slow walking the response.

Once Ukraine got through the first few days, he should have given Ukraine all they needed to win quickly and ignore Putin's nuclear fear mongering.

That was the opportunity lost. It could have been over the first year with Ukraine clearly winning.

But at least Biden helped enough with Europe for Ukraine to hold on. 

But Trump is now surrending to Putin at a time of weakness for Russia in their economy.

That is evil.

Ukriane were never winning or going too. You need to wake up from your delusion.

[dinsdale]

58 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

It could have been over the first year with Ukraine clearly winning.

But at least Biden helped enough with Europe for Ukraine to hold on. 

But Trump is now surrending to Putin at a time of weakness for Russia in their economy.

That is evil.

It could have not started. How about that? Holding on? Losing is the current situation. By holding on what do you mean? Why is Russia in a time of weakness? They are winning the war as it is i.e. capturing more ground than the enemy. Which will fail first. Russian economy or Ukrainian boots on ground? How can Ukraine stop the ongoing Russian advance?

I've underlined five questions. Myself, and I'm thinking others on here, would be interested in your answers. Obviously by answers I don't mean Kamala answers, I mean real, actual answers that address the questions. Any chance of this happening or just deflective drivel? My bet's on the latter.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, hotsun said:

He annexed crimea under obama, invaded ukraine under biden. Its all on the democrats

Post hoc ergo propter hoc is a common logical fallacy.

[Mike_Hunt]

3 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Post hoc ergo propter hoc is a common logical fallacy.

You can't deal with the facts. 

[Mike_Hunt]

This is in the EU's backyard.  It's time they stepped up and took control of the situation.   LOL...