Musk targets Social Security with blatant misinformation

[Yellowtail]

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I wasn't aware that people who have an ITIN number pay taxes.

Non-citizens working in the county legally have to have ITIN and they have to file. If they earn enough, they have to pay. I believe they do not pay into social security. 

[placeholder]

7 minutes ago, John Drake said:

 

This says they do: 

 

Thanks for the correction. I was thinking that because they can't hold a regular job in the States, that they wouldn't be liable for taxes.

[Yellowtail]

Just now, placeholder said:

And what's that got to do with the social security trust fund? Are you back on to the issues that you criticize me for addressing? You know, the issues that you originally raised.

I was responding to you when you said: 

"Do you read what you write? You're the one who threw in the bit about illegal aliens not paying for health care and all that stuff. If you want to confine it to social security payments, the payments illegal aliens make into social security are definitely a net plus for the government. As for the rest of your nonsense, it's what you usually resort to when you have nothing to offer which is virtually always. Come on, for a change link to something that actually backs up what you claim."

 

Now you're howling for me providing the link you asked for that backs up my claim that illegal aliens cost taxpayers more than they contribute. 

 

Significantly more. 

[Patong2021]

6 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

Currently no income taxes(except the tax on SS benefits) go towards social security benefits.  I am not positive about the benefits in the early years of SS but for decades already the benefits are funded completely by those who contributed.  There is no "topping up" by taxpayers and there is no "excess" that SS recipients are spending.

 

There is no transfer of income tax dollars to SS and also no transfer of SS funds to general federal government revenue streams.

 

Before the boomers started retiring, the SS trust fund grew every year.  It was earning interest at the same rate as the Treasury bills that are sold to investors.

 

 

Please note that Social Security as of 2020 has been paying out more than it has collected from deductions and other revenue .

The difference is taken from the trust funds that are intended to support the  program in the future. In effect, eating into the assets that were to support future payments.

Prior to 2020,   there were 11 years in which benefits paid out exceeded income and so the assets of the Trust Funds had to be spent to make up the difference. This cashing-in of the Trust Fund bonds amounted to about $26 billion in those 11 years.

 

As long as the current  payments are not being paid for by the initial investments and their  income generated, and the deficiency is addressed by cashing trust funds paid by other contributors (through their payroll taxes and mandatory deductions) then it can be said that the taxpayers are supporting social security. This is because the money that is intended to support those contributors future payments is being directed to pay current obligations.

 

Note too that the he Social Security trust funds are limited by law to investing their reserves in U.S. government debt. The debt is guaranteed by the US taxpayer.  The US government and the population  access are ready made pool of  money at a competitive interest rate. Sweet deal for the USA. Not so sweet for many SS contributors who earn a lower rate of return through this investment requirement than had the money been invested in a conventional manner.

[still kicking]

Yeah, you're living the good life while taking jobs and the livelihood of thousands and thousands and thousands of people without notice. That's definitely worth running around on the stage with a chainsaw. You say you're chopping bureaucracy but you're not showing any receipts and transparency. The statements you've made and the charts that you have shown are definitely not proof of anything. Although your money has bought you through this and through that and the other, this is where you will definitely be blocked along with your money.

[gamb00ler]

6 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

then it can be said that the taxpayers are supporting social security.

No... that cannot be said.  Simple facts show that your notion is incorrect.  Only the empoyer's and employee's FICA taxes are supporting SS benefits.  It's been that way by law since the inception of SS.

 

By current law, the revenue from federal income taxes cannot now or in the future be used to prop up the SS trust fund.  That's why the current projections warn that SS benefits will need to be reduced when the SS trust fund is exhausted.  At that point SSA will only be able to pay out as much as it takes in.  

[gamb00ler]

On 2/20/2025 at 1:11 AM, Patong2021 said:

Canada will not pay the supplemental Old Age Security guaranteed income to non residents.

Canada does pay regular OAS benefits to non-residents.  It will be prorated based on how long they lived in Canada.  Your statement only applies to the Guaranteed Income Supplement (GIS) and to the rare extra benefits such as the one issued during COVID.

 

Technically, the Canadian GIS is a separate benefit from the Old Age Supplement.  Unlike the OAS, the GIS is not taxable.

[jimmybcool]

5 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

No... that cannot be said.  Simple facts show that your notion is incorrect.  Only the empoyer's and employee's FICA taxes are supporting SS benefits.  It's been that way by law since the inception of SS.

 

By current law, the revenue from federal income taxes cannot now or in the future be used to prop up the SS trust fund.  That's why the current projections warn that SS benefits will need to be reduced when the SS trust fund is exhausted.  At that point SSA will only be able to pay out as much as it takes in.  

I have no idea if what you say is true.  I will accept it as so.  Since congress can change anything I seriously doubt there will come a time when they allow reduced SS payments because current FICA taxes don't cover them.  That would be political suicide. 

[gamb00ler]

3 hours ago, jimmybcool said:

I have no idea if what you say is true.  I will accept it as so.  Since congress can change anything I seriously doubt there will come a time when they allow reduced SS payments because current FICA taxes don't cover them.  That would be political suicide. 

I agree that Congress needs to change the SS funding laws... but lately bipartisan agreement rarely happens.  I think the most reasonable solutions that have been offered only attempt to increase the SS revenue without cutting benefits.

[Yellowtail]

32 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

I agree that Congress needs to change the SS funding laws... but lately bipartisan agreement rarely happens.  I think the most reasonable solutions that have been offered only attempt to increase the SS revenue without cutting benefits.

If Trump is very successful with the DOGE program, the economy is strong, and Vance wins in 2028 and holds the House and Senate, we might see something.