Anti-vaxers kill child in Texas

[CallumWK]

3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

But you weren't forced...  you could have opted out.

 

I recall opting out of the TB vaccination when I was 11 years old at school....    and took it later before travelling overseas.

 

So as an 11 year old child, YOU decided not to take the vaccine, or your parents decided that for you?

[johng]

2 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

prevents people from opting out of one disease while leaving others vulnerable.

Indeed less choice is much better,  after all "the experts" know best  you

stupid pleb !!!   roll up your sleeve and don't even think about it.

[LosLobo]

50 minutes ago, Stiddle Mump said:

There are reasons why measles outbreaks occur. I would be looking at environmental factors. Also water, air and food.

 

Measles is not a disease. It is the body rebelling against toxins. Trying desperately to eliminate undesirables from the system.

 

It is also not transferable from one to another.

Toxins in water don't cause measles; it's a viral infection. The symptoms are your body's response to the virus, not some "toxin elimination." Vaccines prevent measles—science, not pseudoscience.

[Stiddle Mump]

25 minutes ago, gargamon said:

No. They convinced them. People are generally stupid and will fall for any BS they see on the internet. That's how Trump got elected again.

People take things as facts from an early age. I can recall; 'coughs and sneezes spread diseases'. For many; vax fact, is one of them.

 

In truth; a vaccine does not prevent anything. Most are said to be necessary because of some virus or germ. Simply utter nonsense.

 

Vaxxes are not safe, effective or necessary. Any of them.

[Stiddle Mump]

7 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

The combined MMR vaccine is a more cost-effective strategy that ensures better protection, reduces logistical burden, and prevents people from opting out of one disease while leaving others vulnerable.

Dr A Wakefield showed this to be a poor medical decision.

 

Take a butchers at the film; 'Protocol 7'.

[Smokin Joe]

4 minutes ago, Stiddle Mump said:

People take things as facts from an early age. I can recall; 'coughs and sneezed spread diseases'. For many, vax fact, is one of them.

 

In truth; a vaccine does not prevent anything. Most are said to be necessary because of some virus or germ. Simply utter nonsense.

 

Vaxxes are not safe, effective or necessary. Any of them.

 

Ever heard of Polio?

[Screaming]

Michigan boy dies 3 days after getting Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine, CDC is investigating

 

https://www.freep.com/story/news/2021/07/02/jacob-clynick-pfizer-covid-vaccine/5323095001/

 

 

[Stiddle Mump]

14 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

Toxins in water don't cause measles; it's a viral infection. The symptoms are your body's response to the virus, not some "toxin elimination." Vaccines prevent measles—science, not pseudoscience.

Don't agree with you Sir.

 

Measles is not a disease.

There is no such thing as a measles virus.

Viruses do not cause sickness.

The measles symptoms are not contagious. 

Can't get vaxxed, and get protection, for something that don't exist.

 

All a big money maker for Big Pharma.

[Stiddle Mump]

5 minutes ago, Smokin Joe said:

 

Ever heard of Polio?

Sure I have.

 

Nothing to do with a virus though. As most sickness; due to toxicity.

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

13 minutes ago, Stiddle Mump said:

Don't agree with you Sir.

 

Measles is not a disease.

There is no such thing as a measles virus.

Viruses do not cause sickness.

The measles symptoms are not contagious. 

Can't get vaxxed, and get protection, for something that don't exist.

 

All a big money maker for Big Pharma.

 

 

Everyone knows that what the medical profession erroneously calls "disease" is actually the manifestation of demonic possession. Just ask Dr. Stella Immanuel.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, pacovl46 said:

Before the vaccine became available in 1963 there were about 100 million measles cases per year of which 6 million were fatal. In the US there were about 4 million cases and 450 fatalities per year. The chances of dying of a measle vaccine complication are extremely low. So there’s your answer. 

In 1963-6 I had measles along with the other 2000 kids in my school. There were zero fatalities or complications. So are you telling up us kids a much weaker than Brit kids?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

31 minutes ago, Screaming said:

Michigan boy dies 3 days after getting Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine, CDC is investigating

 

https://www.freep.com/story/news/2021/07/02/jacob-clynick-pfizer-covid-vaccine/5323095001/

 

 

 

No cause of death has been determined as yet in the above cited case...

 

But since you've posted the headline here, it's worth reporting what the article actually says on the issue -- that the risks from sickness from COVID far outweigh the risks from the vaccines:

 

"the CDC committee evaluating concerns about the heart problems post-vaccination agreed that the risk of severe COVID-19 illness and hospitalization among unvaccinated adolescents and young adults was higher in every age group than the risk of myocarditis or pericarditis after a vaccine.

...

That's a sentiment echoed by the American Academy of Pediatrics, which issued a joint statement after the hearing that was co-signed by more than a dozen other organizations, including the American Academy of Family Physicians, the American Heart Association, the American Medical Association and the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. It said, in part:

 

“The facts are clear: this is an extremely rare side effect, and only an exceedingly small number of people will experience it after vaccination. Importantly, for the young people who do, most cases are mild, and individuals recover often on their own or with minimal treatment. In addition, we know that myocarditis and pericarditis are much more common if you get COVID-19, and the risks to the heart from COVID-19 infection can be more severe." [emphasis added]

 

https://www.freep.com/story/news/2021/07/02/jacob-clynick-pfizer-covid-vaccine/5323095001/

 

[captain_shane]

4 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Blind tests would be needed to prove that...

 

Put people in a room, introduce SARS-CoV-2.... 

100,000 are vaccinated

100,000 people are not vaccinated

 

Observe the results (Results from AI).

 

The estimates provided are based on data from reputable health organisations and studies that have consistently demonstrated the protective effects of COVID-19 vaccination.

 

These sources indicate that unvaccinated individuals face higher risks of infection, severe illness, and death compared to those who are vaccinated.

 

Key Findings from Notable Sources:

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC): A study reported that during the late BA.4/BA.5 period, unvaccinated individuals had COVID-19 mortality rates 14.1 times higher than those who received a bivalent booster. The infection rate was also 2.8 times higher in unvaccinated persons compared to those vaccinated with a bivalent booster.

cdc.gov

 

Public Health Agency of Canada (PHAC): Research indicated that during the Delta variant predominance, unvaccinated individuals were 6.2 times more likely to be infected, 21.0 times more likely to be hospitalised, and 15.4 times more likely to die from COVID-19 compared to vaccinated individuals.

cidrap.umn.edu

 

JAMA Internal Medicine: An analysis found that COVID-19-associated hospitalization rates were 10.5 times higher in unvaccinated persons compared to those who had received a booster dose.

jamanetwork.com

 

The studies collectively highlight the substantial benefits of vaccination in reducing the risk of COVID-19 infection, severe disease, and mortality. The earlier estimates were derived by applying these observed relative risks to hypothetical populations of 100,000 vaccinated and 100,000 unvaccinated individuals, illustrating the potential large-scale impact of vaccination.

 

Obviously actual numbers can vary based on factors such as the specific variant in circulation, individual health conditions, and adherence to public health measures. However, the overarching conclusion remains consistent: vaccination significantly reduces the risk of severe outcomes from COVID-19 (these results were mostly relevant to the initial outbreaks of Covid-19).

 

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/72/wr/mm7206a3.htm?utm_source=chatgpt.com

 

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/severe-covid-19-death-lowest-far-among-vaccinated-canadians?utm_source=chatgpt.com

 

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2796235?utm_source=chatgpt.com

1. Assumption of Fixed Infection and Severity Rates

• The table assumes a fixed rate of infection (50% for unvaccinated, 10% for vaccinated), which may not be universally accurate.
• Infection rates vary based on factors like prior exposure, natural immunity, population density, and testing rates.
• Natural immunity from prior infection has been shown in some studies to provide equal or superior protection to vaccination.

---

2. Real-World Data on Breakthrough Infections

• The table suggests that vaccinated individuals are only 1/5 as likely to be infected, but real-world data has shown breakthrough infections occur at much higher rates.
• Some countries with high vaccination rates (e.g., Israel, UK, Gibraltar) still experienced large outbreaks, suggesting that vaccines do not prevent infection as effectively as implied.

---

3. Severity of Disease May Depend on Other Factors

• The table assumes vaccination dramatically reduces severe cases (20% to 5%), but does not account for:
  • Age distribution – older individuals are more likely to experience severe disease regardless of vaccination status.
  • Comorbidities – obesity, diabetes, and heart disease play a role in severity.
  • Pre-existing immunity – some unvaccinated individuals already have T-cell and natural immunity.

---

4. Missing Data on Potential Vaccine Risks

• The table only considers COVID-19 deaths but does not factor in vaccine-related adverse events.
• Myocarditis, pericarditis, clotting issues, and other side effects have been recorded, particularly in younger age groups.
• The long-term effects of mRNA vaccines are still being studied, meaning risk-benefit analysis should consider both vaccine protection vs. potential risks.

---

5. The Death Rate Assumption

• The table assumes a 5% fatality rate for severe cases in unvaccinated individuals, but this is highly inflated compared to real-world mortality rates:
  • Overall case fatality rate (CFR) for COVID-19 was often below 1% in many studies, and lower for younger, healthier populations.
  • Many early estimates overestimated the risk of COVID-19, failing to adjust for asymptomatic or undiagnosed cases.

---

6. No Consideration of Population-Level Immunity Trends

• The table does not account for waning immunity, which has been observed in both vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals.
• Boosters became necessary because protection from vaccines declined over time, leading to reduced efficacy against infection and severe disease.

---

7. Real-World Mortality Comparisons

• Countries with high vaccine uptake still experienced waves of COVID-related deaths, suggesting other factors besides vaccination play a role.
• In some cases, heavily vaccinated populations saw spikes in excess deaths, raising questions about whether alternative explanations (delayed medical care, lockdown effects, or vaccine adverse effects) should be considered.

[captain_shane]

27 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

No cause of death has been determined as yet in the above cited case...

 

But since you've posted the headline here, it's worth reporting what the article actually says on the issue -- that the risks from sickness from COVID far outweigh the risks from the vaccines:

 

"the CDC committee evaluating concerns about the heart problems post-vaccination agreed that the risk of severe COVID-19 illness and hospitalization among unvaccinated adolescents and young adults was higher in every age group than the risk of myocarditis or pericarditis after a vaccine.

...

That's a sentiment echoed by the American Academy of Pediatrics, which issued a joint statement after the hearing that was co-signed by more than a dozen other organizations, including the American Academy of Family Physicians, the American Heart Association, the American Medical Association and the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. It said, in part:

 

“The facts are clear: this is an extremely rare side effect, and only an exceedingly small number of people will experience it after vaccination. Importantly, for the young people who do, most cases are mild, and individuals recover often on their own or with minimal treatment. In addition, we know that myocarditis and pericarditis are much more common if you get COVID-19, and the risks to the heart from COVID-19 infection can be more severe." [emphasis added]

 

https://www.freep.com/story/news/2021/07/02/jacob-clynick-pfizer-covid-vaccine/5323095001/

 

1. The Core Issue: A Young, Healthy Boy Died Days After Vaccination

• Deflection from the core concern: The article headline reports that a healthy 13-year-old boy died just three days after receiving the Pfizer vaccine, yet the response immediately shifts away from investigating this tragedy and into a generic defense of vaccine safety.
• Lack of transparency: Instead of acknowledging the potential link and conducting a thorough public autopsy report, the establishment response is simply "no cause of death determined yet." This delay and obfuscation are common patterns seen when evidence might contradict official narratives.

---

2. The Misleading "Risk vs. Benefit" Argument

• The claim that "COVID-19 presents a higher risk than vaccine side effects" is based on population-level statistics that do not account for:
  • Age group differences: Young, healthy individuals have an extremely low risk of severe COVID-19.
  • Pre-existing health conditions: Most severe COVID cases in young people involve comorbidities like obesity, diabetes, or immunodeficiency.
  • Natural immunity: Many young people already had COVID-19 and were at lower risk of reinfection or severe illness than the vaccinated population.
• CDC’s own data (as of 2021) shows:
  • The survival rate for children and teens from COVID-19 is over 99.99%.
  • Healthy teens rarely experience severe COVID-19, but vaccine-related myocarditis cases have been significantly more common than expected.

Conclusion: The risk-benefit calculation varies by age, and blindly applying this logic across all demographics ignores scientific nuance.

---

3. "Most Cases Are Mild" – A Convenient Downplay of Myocarditis

• "Most cases are mild" is an irresponsible statement when discussing heart inflammation in teenagers.

• Myocarditis is NOT a minor side effect:

  • It permanently scars the heart muscle.
  • Even mild myocarditis increases long-term risks of heart failure, arrhythmias, and sudden cardiac arrest.
  • Studies show a non-trivial percentage of vaccine-induced myocarditis patients experience lingering heart damage.

• Contradictory messaging:

  • Before COVID-19, any form of myocarditis was taken extremely seriously.
  • Suddenly, post-vaccine myocarditis is treated as a “temporary inconvenience” rather than the potentially lifelong medical condition that it is.

Conclusion: If a healthy young individual dies three days after vaccination, and myocarditis is known to be linked to the vaccine, it is scientifically dishonest to dismiss concerns outright.

---

4. False Equivalency: COVID-19 Myocarditis vs. Vaccine-Induced Myocarditis

• The response claims that “myocarditis is more common after COVID-19 infection than after vaccination”, but this comparison is misleading.

• Key differences:

  • COVID-induced myocarditis is mostly seen in severely ill individuals with underlying conditions.
  • Vaccine-induced myocarditis is occurring in healthy young individuals who were at near-zero risk from COVID in the first place.
  • The mechanism of injury differs – vaccine myocarditis appears to be an immune overreaction, while COVID myocarditis is a secondary effect in critically ill patients.

• Real-world studies challenge the claim:

  • A large Israeli study found that vaccine-induced myocarditis rates in young males (16-24) were significantly higher than COVID-induced myocarditis rates.
  • Sweden, Denmark, and Norway suspended Moderna for young people due to myocarditis concerns, contradicting the blanket safety claims.

Conclusion: The argument that COVID-19 causes more myocarditis than vaccines is misleading and ignores key differences in affected populations.

---

5. The "Expert Consensus" Fallacy

• The bootlicker response relies heavily on an appeal to authority by citing organizations like:
  • The American Academy of Pediatrics
  • The American Heart Association
  • The American Medical Association
  • The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services
• Problems with this approach:
  • These organizations have financial and political incentives to promote widespread vaccination.
  • Many of these groups receive funding from pharmaceutical companies or have direct partnerships with the vaccine manufacturers.
  • Dissenting doctors and scientists who raise legitimate concerns are censored, blacklisted, or labeled as misinformation spreaders.
• Lack of transparency in the CDC and FDA:
  • The CDC’s own advisory panel initially voted against booster shots for young people, but the decision was overridden for political reasons.
  • The FDA approved Pfizer’s vaccine for kids based on flimsy data with limited follow-up.

Conclusion: Consensus is not science. Citing government-backed organizations without acknowledging their conflicts of interest is intellectually lazy and anti-scientific.

---

Final Verdict: The Defense Is Weak and Politically Motivated

This person’s response completely dodges the core issue:

• A healthy 13-year-old boy died suddenly after receiving the Pfizer vaccine.
• Instead of demanding a full and transparent investigation, the response shifts to generic pro-vaccine rhetoric.
• The argument is based on misleading comparisons, downplaying of side effects, and appeals to authority rather than an honest discussion of the risks.

The proper scientific approach would be to:

1. Investigate the case thoroughly instead of brushing it off.
2. Acknowledge uncertainties rather than making blanket safety claims.
3. Recognize that risk-benefit analysis varies by age and should be debated openly.

Instead, we get propaganda disguised as medical advice—a tactic that erodes public trust in health authorities.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

 

Measles resurgence is 'not business as usual,' doctor says

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqnWJLrECVQ

 

[sungod]

5 hours ago, gargamon said:

Made you look.😄

 

How old are you out of interest?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

How Well Does the MMR Vaccine Work?

"MMR vaccine is very effective at protecting people against measles, mumps, and rubella, and preventing the complications caused by these diseases. People who receive MMR vaccination according to the U.S. vaccination schedule are usually considered protected for life against measles and rubella. While MMR provides effective protection against mumps for most people, immunity against mumps may decrease over time and some people may no longer be protected against mumps later in life. An additional dose may be needed if you are at risk because of a mumps outbreak.

 

One dose of MMR vaccine is 93% effective against measles, 78% effective against mumps, and 97% effective against rubella.

 

Two doses of MMR vaccine are 97% effective against measles and 88% effective against mumps."

 

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/mmr/public/index.html

 

 

[erectem]

khun la.. one can still contract the aformentioned diseases . The vaccine will mitigate the symptoms to the point of being asymptomatic.

 

[Stiddle Mump]

25 minutes ago, erectem said:

khun la.. one can still contract the aformentioned diseases . The vaccine will mitigate the symptoms to the point of being asymptomatic.

 

 

Measles is not a disease. It is a set of symptoms that manifest themselves due to a number of possible things. Generally the culprit is toxicity of one form or another.

[Stiddle Mump]

50 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Measles resurgence is 'not business as usual,' doctor says

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqnWJLrECVQ

 

Watched the vid. Seems like a advert for Big Pharma.

 

Dr Vin Gupta don't know what he is talking about. Or maybe he does but is being handsomely recompensed for spouting nonsense..

[richard_smith237]

5 hours ago, Stiddle Mump said:

Monumental hogwash. There is no such thing as a measles virus.

 

Measles is the disease caused by the morbillivirus....

 

 

4 hours ago, Stiddle Mump said:

Better to look at the local environment for the answers to measles. Toxins in water is often the cause. 

 

Much of the toxic matter that enters our bodies is dealt with by a healthy defence/maintenance system. An unhealthy body - on the other hand - will find difficulty in eliminating them as they arrive, and store them away. When the body sensors says we have enough of this junk, elimination gets underway. This elimination of toxic entities, show themselves as symptoms. They are what are mistakenly referred to as disease.

 

Oh dear....     this is a thread killer...         You think you can avoid all diseases by drinking clean water... 

[richard_smith237]

3 hours ago, captain_shane said:

1. Assumption of Fixed Infection and Severity Rates

 

Copy and paste  comments into Chat GPT and tell it to argue - is that what you did ?... 

 

Your reply has AI written all over it - not worthy of a human response.

[richard_smith237]

2 hours ago, Stiddle Mump said:

Measles is not a disease.

 

Its a Disease... Just like AIDS is a disease, just live Covid-19 is a disease.

 

2 hours ago, Stiddle Mump said:

It is a set of symptoms that manifest themselves due to a number of possible things. Generally the culprit is toxicity of one form or another.

 

You just (nearly) described the very definition of a disease !!!... 

 

A disease is a disorder or abnormal condition that affects the structure or function of an organism (i.e. humans), typically producing specific signs or symptoms. It can be caused by infections, genetic defects, environmental factors, or lifestyle choices. Diseases can be classified as infectious (caused by pathogens like bacteria, viruses, or fungi) or non-infectious (such as genetic disorders, autoimmune diseases, or lifestyle-related conditions like diabetes or heart disease).

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

This thread is like Cat-Nip for idiots...    I'm truly astonished at some of the statements on the last couple of pages.

 

 

[gamb00ler]

16 hours ago, Harrisfan said:

I had no mmr vaccine. Not dead. Why didnt I die????

The age of most measles fatalities is under 5 years old.  Are you older than 5?

[liddelljohn]

18 hours ago, BritManToo said:

But that's not accurate, this study says 'extraordinarily low' but not zero

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK236284/

 

"Conclusion
The evidence establishes a causal relation between vaccine-strain measles virus infection and death. The conclusion is based on case reports in immunocompromised individuals and not on controlled studies. No relative risk can be calculated. However, the risk of death from measles vaccine-strain infection would seem to be extraordinarily low.

The evidence establishes a causal relation between MMR and death from complications associated with severe thrombocytopenia. The evidence establishes a causal relation between MMR and death from anaphylaxis. There is no direct evidence for this; the conclusion is based on the potential of severe thrombocytopenia and anaphylaxis to be fatal. The risk would seem to be extraordinarily low.

The evidence favors acceptance of a causal relation between measles vaccine and death from anaphylaxis. There is no direct evidence for this; the conclusion is based on the potential of anaphylaxis to be fatal. The risk would seem to be extraordinarily low."

That study has been  totally    debunked many times  ,, in UK, EU and USA Its pure  paranoid  conspiracy BS   that kills the unvaxxed

[captain_shane]

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Copy and paste  comments into Chat GPT and tell it to argue - is that what you did ?... 

 

Your reply has AI written all over it - not worthy of a human response.

I'll accept your defeat. Good day sir, I hope you get your boosters and lots of them.

[CallumWK]

1 hour ago, gamb00ler said:

Are you older than 5?

 

Going by his posts, I don't think so.

[Mike_Hunt]

7 hours ago, Stiddle Mump said:

Dr A Wakefield showed this to be a poor medical decision.

 

Take a butchers at the film; 'Protocol 7'.

Dr A Wakefield is a fraud.   His research has been debunked.

[HappyExpat57]

20 hours ago, Dcheech said:

Nothing prayer & leeches could not have cured. Texas needs no vaccine.