10 minutes ago, Mark1969 said:

I went through a buying a condo stage at one time as well. What I discovered (for myself) was that doing so would not make it feel like home even if I purchased. In other words, anything outside of buying on my home country soil would feel like a rental.

It depends on how long you have been here and how deep you are still connected to your home country. I bought a condo here 20 years ago and feel at home, glad that I did that.

16 minutes ago, msbkk said:

It depends on how long you have been here and how deep you are still connected to your home country. I bought a condo here 20 years ago and feel at home, glad that I did that.

      Agree.  Whether I am in a studio condo or a 4-bedroom house here--and have owned both--it always feels like 'home' to me because my spouse and I own it and we are surrounded by art and some antique furniture pieces that I or both of us have collected over the years.  I have one Japanese 4-panel wall screen that I bought around 1975.  So, 50 years old now.  I moved at least 12 times in the US, and we have moved about 14 times so far here--and every move hanging that wall screen, usually over the sofa or the bed.  Once that and the other things are all in place, we are 'home'.  

33 minutes ago, newnative said:

      Agree.  Whether I am in a studio condo or a 4-bedroom house here--and have owned both--it always feels like 'home' to me because my spouse and I own it and we are surrounded by art and some antique furniture pieces that I or both of us have collected over the years.  I have one Japanese 4-panel wall screen that I bought around 1975.  So, 50 years old now.  I moved at least 12 times in the US, and we have moved about 14 times so far here--and every move hanging that wall screen, usually over the sofa or the bed.  Once that and the other things are all in place, we are 'home'.  

 

I understand from what you have posted before you enjoy the process of property flipping but do you ever stay long enough in one property to get that homely feeling. 14 moves so far is an unbelievably high rate.

On 3/28/2025 at 11:35 PM, Asean Tiger said:

I prefer to be surrounded by Chines　or Indians , even BnB tourists to ”Westerners”. No Russian experiences

 

 

Ask them for advice then, preferably in Chinese or Indian.

 

Old grumpy <deleted>

1 hour ago, kinyara said:

 

I understand from what you have posted before you enjoy the process of property flipping but do you ever stay long enough in one property to get that homely feeling. 14 moves so far is an unbelievably high rate.

      I grew up as an Army brat and we moved about every 2 or 3 years so I'm used to frequent changes.   We have moved more often here, that's for sure, as we've been working our way up from living in studios--all we could afford when we first got here--to larger spaces as we have been able to afford them. 

     We are now in what I am calling our in-between house, which we bought new before recently selling our last house.  We will be living in this house for maybe 10 months while we build what we think may be our final house project in Thailand.  We've said that before but this time I think it will stick.   Every place we live in feels homey pretty quickly once we move the stuff in that we have had for years, plus the new stuff we select to finish the rooms.  

3 hours ago, newnative said:

      Agree.  Whether I am in a studio condo or a 4-bedroom house here--and have owned both--it always feels like 'home' to me because my spouse and I own it and we are surrounded by art and some antique furniture pieces that I or both of us have collected over the years.  I have one Japanese 4-panel wall screen that I bought around 1975.  So, 50 years old now.  I moved at least 12 times in the US, and we have moved about 14 times so far here--and every move hanging that wall screen, usually over the sofa or the bed.  Once that and the other things are all in place, we are 'home'.  

It's hard to imagine feeling like home on someone elses land even if you fully trust the owner...

 

Ditto for a condo. It's always someone elses building holding you up...

 

I'm talking about being truly comfortable. In a situation that's paid off and nobody can take from you, not just being in a secure space...

12 hours ago, Celsius said:

 

Ask them for advice then, preferably in Chinese or Indian.

 

Old grumpy <deleted>

There is no such language as ”Indian” Einstein, and when getting specific  about Chinese 7 to 10 major dialects.

8 hours ago, Mark1969 said:

It's hard to imagine feeling like home on someone elses land even if you fully trust the owner...

 

Ditto for a condo. It's always someone elses building holding you up...

 

I'm talking about being truly comfortable. In a situation that's paid off and nobody can take from you, not just being in a secure space...

       Interesting take.  I never owned a house in America because I lived in an expensive area--northern Virginia near DC--and I could only afford a series of 1 bedroom condos, bought one by one, after renting for a number of years.  Thank goodness I finally bought the first condo.  Loved my job but my salary was very low and the only monthly chunk of money I had to use for investment was the rent money--which I was giving to the landlord each month.  This was some years before I met my spouse.

      Finally decided to invest in myself, instead, and the condos I bought and fixed up, while living in them, helped a lot to supplement my income--and it was so much nicer living in a space I owned and could do whatever I wanted to with.  

     So, no houses, just condos in the US, but I felt comfortable and at home in all of them, although there was always the monthly mortgage payment nagging at me.  I'm actually more comfortable with the condo we still own here, in foreign quota, as it's fully paid for with no mortgage hanging over our heads.  In America, my condos were mostly owned by the bank, as I never lived in any long enough to pay off the mortgage.  But, mortgage or not, every property felt, and still feels, more like home to me when there's no landlord.

     I don't quite understand your condo comment as I view condos as a collective ownership of the condo project by all the individual condo owners.  So, it's never felt like 'someone else's building' to me, here or in the US.   And, I have the same condo rights as a Thai owner, with the same set of by-laws, same condo maintenance fees, same use of facilities, etc.   

     The condo here is in my name, the house is in my spouse's name.  The current house we just bought is actually valued less than the Bangkok condo so if we were keeping score, which we are not, perhaps I would be a bit ahead.   It doesn't work like that, though.  We're secure with our relationship of over 30 years and I have no problem with the land being in my spouse's name; the home is still ours to share and call home.  I realize that everyone's situation is different, and the differences guide actions.  What works for us may not work for others.  

     

23 minutes ago, newnative said:

Interesting take. I never owned a house in America because I lived in an expensive area--northern Virginia near DC--and I could only afford a series of 1 bedroom condos, bought one by one, after renting for a number of years.  Thank goodness I finally bought the first condo.  Loved my job but my salary was very low and the only monthly chunk of money I had to use for investment was the rent money--which I was giving to the landlord each month.  This was some years before I met my spouse.

      Finally decided to invest in myself, instead, and the condos I bought and fixed up, while living in them, helped a lot to supplement my income--and it was so much nicer living in a space I owned and could do whatever I wanted to with.  

     So, no houses, just condos in the US, but I felt comfortable and at home in all of them, although there was always the monthly mortgage payment nagging at me.  I'm actually more comfortable with the condo we still own here, in foreign quota, as it's fully paid for with no mortgage hanging over our heads.  In America, my condos were mostly owned by the bank, as I never lived in any long enough to pay off the mortgage.  But, mortgage or not, every property felt, and still feels, more like home to me when there's no landlord.

     I don't quite understand your condo comment as I view condos as a collective ownership of the condo project by all the individual condo owners.  So, it's never felt like 'someone else's building' to me, here or in the US.   And, I have the same condo rights as a Thai owner, with the same set of by-laws, same condo maintenance fees, same use of facilities, etc.   

     The condo here is in my name, the house is in my spouse's name.  The current house we just bought is actually valued less than the Bangkok condo so if we were keeping score, which we are not, perhaps I would be a bit ahead.   It doesn't work like that, though.  We're secure with our relationship of over 30 years and I have no problem with the land being in my spouse's name; the home is still ours to share and call home.  I realize that everyone's situation is different, and the differences guide actions.  What works for us may not work for others.  

I agree about the mortgages and loans. After I bought my condo in the Usa I realized that I did not own or buy anything. It was just like paying rent to the bank (nobody I know times property pricing cycles just right, consistently, so the usual justification of holding appreciating asset does not hold up).

 

The whole ownership thing with a loan is a myth and a scam developed by banks and the real estate brokers to create an illusion of ownership and collect interest payments and commission.

 

To my understanding it's not actually possible to truly "own" in the Usa. Even with a cash purchase there is the property tax issue and even eminent domain whereby the government can sieze, also Irs seizure.

40 minutes ago, Mark1969 said:

The whole ownership thing with a loan is a myth and a scam developed by banks and the real estate brokers to create an illusion of ownership and collect interest payments and commission.

I always thought it was a scam by the government to keep straight white males working.

Same with giving the woman the house in a divorce, gotta keep those guys at work.

10 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I always thought it was a scam by the government to keep straight white males working.

Same with giving the woman the house in a divorce, gotta keep those guys at work.

Yes! It could also be viewed at a deeper level as creating illusions of control and ownership to keep people in debt, therefore working for the corporate elite. If you are busy working, you are too tired to challenge the status quo or develop your own business or livelyhood that drains money away from someplace like Amazon or Walmart.

 

If you go into debt you can't usually get out from under the payments without working as a debt slave in a job most of your life. For the paranoid, the interest rates may set that way according to your credit and income when you get the loan.

2 hours ago, Mark1969 said:

I agree about the mortgages and loans. After I bought my condo in the Usa I realized that I did not own or buy anything. It was just like paying rent to the bank (nobody I know times property pricing cycles just right, consistently, so the usual justification of holding appreciating asset does not hold up).

 

The whole ownership thing with a loan is a myth and a scam developed by banks and the real estate brokers to create an illusion of ownership and collect interest payments and commission.

 

To my understanding it's not actually possible to truly "own" in the Usa. Even with a cash purchase there is the property tax issue and even eminent domain whereby the government can sieze, also Irs seizure.

    I disagree that paying a mortgage is just like paying rent.  As I said in my earlier post, by buying I was paying myself, not the landlord.  Quite a difference, in my book.  Had I never bought a condo, after 30 years of working I would have had very little saved, as most of my monthly income was going to rent, with very little left over. after all the bills were paid.  I do realize that many people have large monthly incomes and have more financial flexibility than what I had at that time.

    If I had never sold the first condo I bought and, instead, continued to live in it, by my retirement it would have been paid off and I would have had an asset worth something, rather than a drawer full of worthless rent payments, had I rented my entire career and never bought. 

    Someone will likely post that if one doesn't buy, one can invest in this or that, instead, and possibly earn more money.  That certainly can work if you have a nice chunk of money to invest with in the first place, plus other money coming in to pay your monthly rent.  And, of course, you do need the discipline to actually invest that money and not blow it on wine, women, and song.

    I didn't have that big chunk of money to invest with.  Instead, and remembering this was many years ago, in the early 80s, I had about $1,200 of my monthly budget to keep a roof over my head--either one I owned or one the landlord owned.  The only way to put that $1,200 to work as an investment, and still keep a roof over my head, was by using it for real estate.  One can't shelter under a stock certificate.  With the ownership tax breaks, the monthly housing payment was about the same at that time to buy or to rent, as rents were high there--and went up every year.  

    Yes, it is possible to own in the US.  My parents owned their house outright and when they died, it was inherited by us kids.   I could go back today and pay cash for a property and not have a mortgage at all.  I would own the property outright, too.  As an owner, of course there are obligations, not unique to the US.  The main one being property taxes.  Where I lived there was also a yearly car tax.  Neither negated ownership.   

     In my experience, you don't need to be a genius or have great timing to have your property appreciate in the US.  My 5 USA siblings all own their homes, and all are appreciating nicely, in five different states.  The last condo I owned in the US I paid $170,000 for in 2009.  Zillow tells me it's now worth $274,800.  The only genius and timing involved with that would be to buy in the first place and just hold on to it.  

2 hours ago, newnative said:

    I disagree that paying a mortgage is just like paying rent.  As I said in my earlier post, by buying I was paying myself, not the landlord.  Quite a difference, in my book.  Had I never bought a condo, after 30 years of working I would have had very little saved, as most of my monthly income was going to rent, with very little left over. after all the bills were paid.  I do realize that many people have large monthly incomes and have more financial flexibility than what I had at that time.

    If I had never sold the first condo I bought and, instead, continued to live in it, by my retirement it would have been paid off and I would have had an asset worth something, rather than a drawer full of worthless rent payments, had I rented my entire career and never bought. 

    Someone will likely post that if one doesn't buy, one can invest in this or that, instead, and possibly earn more money.  That certainly can work if you have a nice chunk of money to invest with in the first place, plus other money coming in to pay your monthly rent.  And, of course, you do need the discipline to actually invest that money and not blow it on wine, women, and song.

    I didn't have that big chunk of money to invest with.  Instead, and remembering this was many years ago, in the early 80s, I had about $1,200 of my monthly budget to keep a roof over my head--either one I owned or one the landlord owned.  The only way to put that $1,200 to work as an investment, and still keep a roof over my head, was by using it for real estate.  One can't shelter under a stock certificate.  With the ownership tax breaks, the monthly housing payment was about the same at that time to buy or to rent, as rents were high there--and went up every year.  

    Yes, it is possible to own in the US.  My parents owned their house outright and when they died, it was inherited by us kids.   I could go back today and pay cash for a property and not have a mortgage at all.  I would own the property outright, too.  As an owner, of course there are obligations, not unique to the US.  The main one being property taxes.  Where I lived there was also a yearly car tax.  Neither negated ownership.   

     In my experience, you don't need to be a genius or have great timing to have your property appreciate in the US.  My 5 USA siblings all own their homes, and all are appreciating nicely, in five different states.  The last condo I owned in the US I paid $170,000 for in 2009.  Zillow tells me it's now worth $274,800.  The only genius and timing involved with that would be to buy in the first place and just hold on to it.  

Not true at all. Property prices can crash and you would be in a very illiquid investment whereby you can't sell and your home and it can be taken ftom you as the banks afjust the mortgages and you go underwater. 

 

True, it's rare, but when it does happen you can lose everything.

13 hours ago, Mark1969 said:

Not true at all. Property prices can crash and you would be in a very illiquid investment whereby you can't sell and your home and it can be taken ftom you as the banks afjust the mortgages and you go underwater. 

 

True, it's rare, but when it does happen you can lose everything.

 

What the Chinese are finding now having bought apartments at ridiculously high prices. 

14 hours ago, Mark1969 said:

Not true at all. Property prices can crash and you would be in a very illiquid investment whereby you can't sell and your home and it can be taken ftom you as the banks afjust the mortgages and you go underwater. 

 

True, it's rare, but when it does happen you can lose everything.

     You are correct that banks can adjust mortgages, but only if you have selected an adjustable-rate mortgage.  If you don't want that uncertainty, choose a fixed-rate mortgage, and buy only what your income can afford.  You are also correct that real estate prices can drop.  That is also true for other investments, such as the stock market.  You need to be prepared for some ups and downs whatever investment you make.   But, as with the stock market, the long-term trajectory for real estate is upward.  The very first condo I bought in America, years ago, cost me $60,000.  Did a quick check and saw a similar 1-bedroom listed for $290,000.  That's an upward trajectory, long-term. 

     Even if the value of your property temporarily drops, it doesn't mean you will be kicked out and lose your home.  That only happens if you fail to meet your financial requirements of home ownership.  One can also be kicked out as a renter for the same reason.  No answer for either except be responsible and don't try to live a Rolex lifestyle on a Timex income.  

     I mentioned in my earlier post that the last condo I bought in the US for $170,000 is now worth $274,800.  What I didn't mention, although I have spoken about it in other threads, was that after I bought it, in 2009, the condo's value dropped to $160,000.  Did I actually lose $10,000 cash folding money though?  No, because I didn't sell at that time.   I did not, in your words, 'lose everything' when the price dropped, and would not have even if I had sold then.  Just $10,000 lost of a $170,000 investment.  Not $170,000 --'everything'--lost, had I sold.  

     The price drop was just on paper.  Nothing else changed financially--the monthly condo fee stayed the same, the mortgage payment didn't change.   If I could make the monthly house 'nut' before, the price drop would have no bearing on my making it in the future.  And, I still had a roof over my head and was not homeless.  With that condo, I waited until the housing market recovered and I sold it at a small profit, as I was now living in Thailand and I didn't want to be an absentee landlord.  

    With real estate, or the stock market, you can have on paper losses.  A few months ago, on paper, my stock portfolio dropped when Trump first started tinkering with tariffs and the market panicked.   On paper, it dropped about $15,000.  But, again, I didn't actually lose $15,000 in cash out of my pocket because I didn't sell any stocks at a loss.  My portfolio has since recovered and hit an all-time high last week, although it was down yesterday.  Ups and downs, for sure, but more ups, long-term, with both real estate and the stock market.

     

1 hour ago, newnative said:

     You are correct that banks can adjust mortgages, but only if you have selected an adjustable-rate mortgage.  If you don't want that uncertainty, choose a fixed-rate mortgage, and buy only what your income can afford.  You are also correct that real estate prices can drop.  That is also true for other investments, such as the stock market.  You need to be prepared for some ups and downs whatever investment you make.   But, as with the stock market, the long-term trajectory for real estate is upward.  The very first condo I bought in America, years ago, cost me $60,000.  Did a quick check and saw a similar 1-bedroom listed for $290,000.  That's an upward trajectory, long-term. 

     Even if the value of your property temporarily drops, it doesn't mean you will be kicked out and lose your home.  That only happens if you fail to meet your financial requirements of home ownership.  One can also be kicked out as a renter for the same reason.  No answer for either except be responsible and don't try to live a Rolex lifestyle on a Timex income.  

     I mentioned in my earlier post that the last condo I bought in the US for $170,000 is now worth $274,800.  What I didn't mention, although I have spoken about it in other threads, was that after I bought it, in 2009, the condo's value dropped to $160,000.  Did I actually lose $10,000 cash folding money though?  No, because I didn't sell at that time.   I did not, in your words, 'lose everything' when the price dropped, and would not have even if I had sold then.  Just $10,000 lost of a $170,000 investment.  Not $170,000 --'everything'--lost, had I sold.  

     The price drop was just on paper.  Nothing else changed financially--the monthly condo fee stayed the same, the mortgage payment didn't change.   If I could make the monthly house 'nut' before, the price drop would have no bearing on my making it in the future.  And, I still had a roof over my head and was not homeless.  With that condo, I waited until the housing market recovered and I sold it at a small profit, as I was now living in Thailand and I didn't want to be an absentee landlord.  

    With real estate, or the stock market, you can have on paper losses.  A few months ago, on paper, my stock portfolio dropped when Trump first started tinkering with tariffs and the market panicked.   On paper, it dropped about $15,000.  But, again, I didn't actually lose $15,000 in cash out of my pocket because I didn't sell any stocks at a loss.  My portfolio has since recovered and hit an all-time high last week, although it was down yesterday.  Ups and downs, for sure, but more ups, long-term, with both real estate and the stock market.

It's not a permanent upward trajectory. It's a large wave moving up, whereby you have no way of knowing when it will reverse. Since you have no exit plan you would be stuck holding during whatever reversal would happen (could take many years) and would probably sell at the bottom during a panic. You also don't have an exit plan on the topside, believing it will simply keep going up.

17 minutes ago, Mark1969 said:

It's not a permanent upward trajectory. It's a large wave moving up, whereby you have no way of knowing when it will reverse. Since you have no exit plan you would be stuck holding during whatever reversal would happen (could take many years) and would probably sell at the bottom during a panic. You also don't have an exit plan on the topside, believing it will simply keep going up.

     My 'exit plan' is to, hopefully, follow my  Dad's path and depart this current life, as he did, somewhere around age 95, with my brain still functioning more or less as it is today.  While I am still here on earth, I need a roof over my head, as I would not do well homeless.

    So, I've got two choices, rent or buy.  For reasons that I have touched on many times before, I choose to own, wherever I may find myself.   I choose to own, even if ownership might mean losing some money.  The risk is easily worth it, for me.  That's me.

    Losing money hasn't happened with 30some properties here and in the US but I know going in that it could happen.  My first rule of investing is to be comfortable with what you are spending your money on.  If you're not comfortable, look for something else, for heaven's sake.   With my track record, I am very comfortable with real estate.  Again, that's me, and only me.  If you're not, be comfortable renting and put your money somewhere else that you are comfortable with.

    So, now I've bought my property and your 'large wave' that had been rising suddenly drops.  My property value suddenly drops.  I say, so what?  It's only relevant if I need to sell right then and there.  If I don't, it's meaningless.  It's only a loss on paper, nothing more.  Nothing else has changed and I still have a roof over my head--which I am quite happy to be 'stuck holding'.   

    I would certainly not 'panic' and 'sell at the bottom'--why would I?   I'd more likely be looking for a bargain to buy, while holding my current property until values rise.  I've never lost money on a property because I never sell unless I can make a profit--not exactly brain surgery or rocket science, that.  If not, I hold the property and either continue to live in it or rent it out.  Eventually, the 'large wave' rises once again.

     

6 hours ago, newnative said:

     My 'exit plan' is to, hopefully, follow my  Dad's path and depart this current life, as he did, somewhere around age 95, with my brain still functioning more or less as it is today.  While I am still here on earth, I need a roof over my head, as I would not do well homeless.

    So, I've got two choices, rent or buy.  For reasons that I have touched on many times before, I choose to own, wherever I may find myself.   I choose to own, even if ownership might mean losing some money.  The risk is easily worth it, for me.  That's me.

    Losing money hasn't happened with 30some properties here and in the US but I know going in that it could happen.  My first rule of investing is to be comfortable with what you are spending your money on.  If you're not comfortable, look for something else, for heaven's sake.   With my track record, I am very comfortable with real estate.  Again, that's me, and only me.  If you're not, be comfortable renting and put your money somewhere else that you are comfortable with.

    So, now I've bought my property and your 'large wave' that had been rising suddenly drops.  My property value suddenly drops.  I say, so what?  It's only relevant if I need to sell right then and there.  If I don't, it's meaningless.  It's only a loss on paper, nothing more.  Nothing else has changed and I still have a roof over my head--which I am quite happy to be 'stuck holding'.   

    I would certainly not 'panic' and 'sell at the bottom'--why would I?   I'd more likely be looking for a bargain to buy, while holding my current property until values rise.  I've never lost money on a property because I never sell unless I can make a profit--not exactly brain surgery or rocket science, that.  If not, I hold the property and either continue to live in it or rent it out.  Eventually, the 'large wave' rises once again.

     

You bought the Warren Buffett line of just hold everything and property always goes up line of the real estate industry. 

 

They made that up for suckers. If you are a Warren Buffett, Ok, hold anything and forget it. It's all a paper loss and does not matter! Look at again when you are 95 and laugh!

 

That's not most people who can just ignore any downturn.

11 hours ago, Mark1969 said:

You bought the Warren Buffett line of just hold everything and property always goes up line of the real estate industry. 

 

They made that up for suckers. If you are a Warren Buffett, Ok, hold anything and forget it. It's all a paper loss and does not matter! Look at again when you are 95 and laugh!

 

That's not most people who can just ignore any downturn.

        Happy to be a 'sucker' who, thank god, bought my first condo.  Had I not, I would be scraping by with just my pension and SS.   That worked for me, with my tight financial situation.  Others more affluent might have done better with a different financial strategy. 

      If you've followed any of my real estate posts you'll know that I don't buy and hold real estate--although that is a very sound option, in my opinion.  Instead, I buy, fix up while I live in the property, and then sell quickly, making a profit on either the renovation or, in recent years, the new build of a house.  This worked in the US and my spouse and I have been doing the same thing in Thailand since December 2009.  We just bought our 27th property here--so not much holding going on.

      However, there is ample evidence that real estate does follow an upward trajectory over time, especially in the US.  I've given examples of several properties that I personally owned, including the first condo I bought in the US.  And, the last condo.  I get updates from Zillow on other condos I have owned and they are all appreciating, as well.   I know all my siblings own and they have an asset that is also appreciating, over time. 

    Another example might be the house my parents bought in 1972 in a rather sleepy town in Pennsylvanina--not exactly a hotbed for go-go real estate.  They paid $45,000 and lived in it until 2009, when my Dad died and Mom went into a nursing home.  The house was sold for $150,000.  I don't know what rent payments would have added up to from 1972 to 2009 had they rented but I do know the $150,000 helped pay for Mom's nursing care.  So, $45,000 to $150,000.  Upward, over time.

      I'm doing more buying and holding with our stock portfolio, which has a number of stocks paying a 5% or more dividend.  I will likely be holding most of them long-term.  I've given an example of long-term stock holding, in past threads, using my Dad's stock portfolio, which was, I think, a very well-rounded portfolio, with lots of blue chips and well-known, sound companies. 

     In 2009, when he died, the portfolio had a value of around $600,000.  We kids, as  future heirs, did nothing except hold the stocks, as the dividends helped pay for Mom's nursing care.  When she died in 2019, the portfolio was worth about $1,800,000.  The portfolio was then split up.  Had it not been distributed, and with absolutely no buying or selling, just holding, today it would have a value of $2,375,000. 

    So, some good examples of the upward trajectory of both stocks and real estate, over time.  Recently there was a news article I noticed on Yahoo regarding so many Americans becoming millionaires in record numbers.  It's not difficult to see why.  If you're a homeowner in the US, you're likely about halfway there with just your house's value.  Add in other investments, the 401, and inheritances from thrifty parents and grandparents and that pretty easily gets you to a million by retirement age.

     My examples above are for the US.  The Thai real estate market is somewhat different, with short-term buy/sells in some cases producing more, or about the same profit, as properties held long-term.  At least, in our experience.  But, as with America, buying and living in a property long-term here, and avoiding rent payments, will result in an asset you own rather than a bundle of rent payment receipts.  There are certainly rental bargains, as well, should you prefer to rent in a foreign country.

      

 

On 7/6/2025 at 4:13 PM, Mark1969 said:

It's hard to imagine feeling like home on someone elses land even if you fully trust the owner...

 

Ditto for a condo. It's always someone elses building holding you up...

 

I'm talking about being truly comfortable. In a situation that's paid off and nobody can take from you, not just being in a secure space...

You will never be able to feel truly comfortable when it comes to property in Thailand.  You are not a Thai citizen, you basically have no rights here, and that 1 year retirement visa / extension is really nothing more than a 1 year tourist visa. 

On 3/28/2025 at 10:11 AM, newnative said:

       If you go to T21/Central daily I would rule out everything in Jomtien.  My spouse and I used to live in south Jomtien and, like you, we went into Pattaya a lot.  We eventually realized we should live closer to where we were spending so much time and we moved and lived in north Pattaya and then Wongamat before moving to a house on the Darkside--which is actually quicker to get to T21 than south Jomtien was. 

     My first recommendation would be Northshore but the cheapest unit there I could find is over your price range.  You might consider Markland, just down the street, an older project.  In your price range and you could walk to T21 but the facilities are not as good as some of the newer projects and some of the condos need renovation.  There are some smaller, low-rise projects here and there in this area of Pattaya that you could look into, such as City Smart Residence.  

      There are also some low-rise projects near The Base and The Avenue shopping center, which are walking distance to Central Festival.  One of the newer ones is Grand Avenue and it would be in your price range, as would be most or all of the other ones.  I'm not especially familiar with low-rise projects as my spouse and I always bought seaview condos but I know there are a number of them.   

   Literally right next to Central Festival is View Talay 6, in your price range for a large studio but the project is on the short side with amenities.  Up the street a bit is Centric Sea, a large, 3 building project on Second Road--walkable to both T21 and Festival.  In the past it was plagued with daily renters.  I've heard there has been a crackdown but it might still be a problem to check out.  3 pools and 3 gyms.  The third building at Centric is a smaller, low-rise in the back, with the third pool and the third, smaller gym.  Likely quieter than the 2 highrise buildings and you might consider something in that building if a seaview isn't important.  

    If you have transportation, you could check the many condo projects in Wongamat--a nice area of Pattaya.  Most are not far from T21 and, using back roads, traffic isn't bad.   There are a number of reasonably priced low-rise projects scattered around, such as Club Royal.  A big variety of older and newer projects.  One of the newer highrise projects, with lots of amenities, is Riviera Wongamat, and it would have units in your price range.  There are a number of others, such as Zire and Wongamat Tower, that could also have smaller, non-seaview units in your budget.

    I suggest you do some checking on the website Hipflat.  Hipflat is a good database that posts listings from lots of different real estate agencies.  You will see some duplicate listings--agencies posting the same condo for sale--as a number of agencies might have the same listing.  The last condo I was selling showed up on Hipflat at least 8 times as I had listed it with lots of agencies.  On the plus side, with the duplicated listings you will likely see some different photos of the condos you are interested in. 

    When you get to the Hipflat site,  choose  'buy', then 'condos for sale', and then choose 'Chonburi' as the province.  You will then see a list of areas in light pink boxes.  I would click on the boxes for South Pattaya and North Pattaya.  This will give you listings with photos for condos ranging from the southern part of Pattaya to Naklua/Wongamat,      

    Do some searching on the website, identify some projects that seem to have what you are looking for, and then do some in-person looking.  Take your time and don't rush into things.  With the project or projects you are interested in, make multiple visits at various times of the day and on a weekend.  Talk with some of the owner-residents and give the whole project a going over with a sharp eye.   If you can see the financials, all the better.  Check what the monthly maintenance fee is and make a note of how the maintenance on the project is going--good or bad.

   I would strongly recommend only buying in foreign quota.  The condo will be in your name on the Chanote (title deed) and you will not have to deal with the yearly reports and expenses involved with owning in Company Name.   Should you ever decide to sell, foreign quota condos are usually an easier sell and attract more potential buyers--some buyers will only look at condos in foreign quota.   Good luck with your search.  

 

I agree.  The Riviera Wongamat is a reasonably new highrise with lots of amenities.