Increases in vaccine-preventable disease outbreaks threaten years of progress

[Will B Good]

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

The mind simple boggles doesn't it...    

 

 

Ha.....Hence the next post....

 

I give in.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

5 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

 

I give in.

 

It's probably best to just ignore certain comments that are so far divorced from any reality that engaging in discussion is pointless.

 

[Will B Good]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

It's probably best to just ignore certain comments that are so far divorced from any reality that engaging in discussion is pointless.

 

 

Yes.....at least flat earthers 'go at' with constructive (albeit erroneous) arguments

[richard_smith237]

26 minutes ago, johng said:

43 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Consider the initial modelling from Imperial College London - based on what was known at the time, their projections were understandably alarming.

 

Predictions from the lead author of this study  are mostly alarming and  wrong this one added to the list of them including the climate scam.

 

No one else knew better at the time... 

 

We'd already encountered SARS-CoV-1 and MERS-CoV - both with high case fatality rates of ~10% and ~30% respectively - fortunately, theses viruses had a low transmission rate.

 

A zoonotic Novel Corona virus started to sweep through China at a high transmission rate matching influenza.

 

Case fatality rates were unknown at the time.

 

Every authority in the world was quite rightly highly alarmed at the time - it was only with 20/20 hindsight, once the CFR's were established that mistakes were made (in my opinion of course) to continue with full lock-down measures.

 

This has nothing to do with Climate stats or predictions - combining the two shows a flawed approach based in distrust rather than establishing facts.

[richard_smith237]

15 minutes ago, Stiddle Mump said:

The conditions of measles. The conditions of the flu. The symptoms of these complaints are seen as conditions. They are NOT diseases. And not caused by any virus.

 

More absolute tosh..  the rubbish you come out with is truly amazing.  

 

Influenza is classified as an infectious disease !

 

A disease is a pathological condition of a part, organ, or system of an organism resulting from various causes, such as infection, genetic defect, or environmental stress, and characterised by an identifiable group of signs or symptoms. Influenza fits this definition perfectly.

 

A condition is a broader term that refers to any state of health, good or bad. So all diseases are conditions, but not all conditions are diseases. For example, pregnancy is a condition, not a disease.

 

 

 

[Stiddle Mump]

9 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

I give in.

Don't give in Will bud. Stay on the thread and learn.

 

I explained to you on another thread what the flu, measles and polio were, and what they were caused by,

 

Your fixation on the mysterious virus is worrying. Are there any others like you out there? Do some research man. Turn off the tv. CNN and the BBC will survive without you.

 

Nature has the answers we seek.

[Will B Good]

Just now, Stiddle Mump said:

Don't give in Will bud. Stay on the thread and learn.

 

I explained to you on another thread what the flu, measles and polio were, and what they were caused by,

 

Your fixation on the mysterious virus is worrying. Are there any others like you out there? Do some research man. Turn off the tv. CNN and the BBC will survive without you.

 

Nature has the answers we seek.

 

Switching to flat-eather threads......at least there is some meat you can discuss and challenge as opposed to "pathogens don't exist and there's no such thing as disease".......suck it up.

[Stiddle Mump]

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Influenza is classified as an infectious disease !

 

Absolute, monumental hogwash Richard. Don't know where you copied that from, but, if you think that, you, and they, are wrong,

 

Influenza is a natural body function. It is not a disease. it is certainly not caused by some mysterious entity called a virus. There is a reason for the different symptoms of the flu. They do a good maintenance job..

 

Just like the leaves falling off the tree, to allow fresh growth. Nature has the answers we seek.

[Fat is a type of crazy]

13 minutes ago, Stiddle Mump said:

Don't give in Will bud. Stay on the thread and learn.

 

I explained to you on another thread what the flu, measles and polio were, and what they were caused by,

 

Your fixation on the mysterious virus is worrying. Are there any others like you out there? Do some research man. Turn off the tv. CNN and the BBC will survive without you.

 

Nature has the answers we seek.

What does nature suggest if I get rabies . Eat an apple. Go for a run. 

[Stiddle Mump]

9 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

 

Switching to flat-eather threads......at least there is some meat you can discuss and challenge as opposed to "pathogens don't exist and there's no such thing as disease".......suck it up.

Why not debate Will bud? Instead of posting silly-billy comments.

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

What does nature suggest if I get bubonic plague. Eat an apple. Go for a run. 

 

I'm not sure he's Anti-anti-biotics or just anti-vaxx....    I suspect both given his propensity to go against anything modern science has proven.

[richard_smith237]

3 minutes ago, Stiddle Mump said:

15 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Influenza is classified as an infectious disease !

 

Absolute, monumental hogwash Richard. Don't know where you copied that from, but, if you think that, you, and they, are wrong,

 

Influenza is a natural body function. It is not a disease. it is certainly not caused by some mysterious entity called a virus. There is a reason for the different symptoms of the flu. They do a good maintenance job..

 

Just like the leaves falling off the tree, to allow fresh growth. Nature has the answers we seek.

 

Oh dear - you keep doubling down on the stupidity... 

[Fat is a type of crazy]

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I'm not sure he's Anti-anti-biotics or just anti-vaxx....    I suspect both given his propensity to go against anything modern science has proven.

As soon as I posted I thought ..hey is that a virus.. so changed it to rabies .. you're too quick

[Stiddle Mump]

3 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

What does nature suggest if I get bubonic plague. Eat an apple. Go for a run. 

Nature would say to take care of yourself. Eat nutritious food. Stay away for vaccines.

 

An apple a day - keeps the doctor away.

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, Stiddle Mump said:

Why not debate Will bud? Instead of posting silly-billy comments.

 

Because he's sensible enough not to - I on the other hand allow myself to fall foul of the very advice I keep giving myself and many others have given me when entering such discussions with you... 

 

Quote Mark Twain: "Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."

 

 

[dutch boy]

1 hour ago, BLMFem said:

I have a dream. In it all the anti-vaxxer, anti-science morons all live together in one area where they live their short lives happily dodging an invention (vaccines)  that is hailed as one of the greatest scientific achievements in human history.

It would be splendid to see Darwin's principles in action drastically strengthening our gene pool.

I have a dream, actually a nightmare that I was on the back of a bike with a Fem driving.

[Stiddle Mump]

4 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I'm not sure he's Anti-anti-biotics or just anti-vaxx....    I suspect both given his propensity to go against anything modern science has proven.

I'm pro-nature Richard. Thought that might be obvious.

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

As soon as I posted I thought ..hey is that a virus.. so changed it to rabies .. you're too quick

 

I don't think it matters he's so outstanding daft I'm sure he's things antibiotics are unnecessary and 'Nature has the answers we seek' !!!  

[johng]

12 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Case fatality rates were unknown at the time.

 

They were quite quickly known.   yes at first a big panic

13 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Every authority in the world was quite rightly highly alarmed at the time - it was only with 20/20 hindsight, once the CFR's were established that mistakes were made (in my opinion of course) to continue with full lock-down measures.

 

The flawed studies by the   Imperial College London contributed to the mass hysteria at first yes, but once the case fatality rate and  those most at risk had been clearly established  there was no longer any case for the measures that were implemented,  it was an overly authoritarian  overreaction  that caused massive damage not just to the economy and ordinary peoples lives   but also to trust in the  so called "trusted institutions"   medicine,science media and politics.

[Fat is a type of crazy]

2 minutes ago, Stiddle Mump said:

Nature would say to take care of yourself. Eat nutritious food. Stay away for vaccines.

 

An apple a day - keeps the doctor away.

Sounds nice .. come on Owl .. lots of healthy people with healthy diets and lifestyle get sick from diseases.. if it was easy as that.. I got covid and it was unpleasant .. I go to gym and eat apples .. from whence did it come.. what was I doing wrong.. needed more bananas

[richard_smith237]

20 minutes ago, Stiddle Mump said:

I'm pro-nature Richard. Thought that might be obvious.

 

So you are against human intervention with everything, or just when it comes to medical fitness ?

[Stiddle Mump]

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I don't think it matters he's so outstanding daft I'm sure he's things antibiotics are unnecessary and 'Nature has the answers we seek' !!!  

You are nature Richard. Nature is you, Just as much as trees, elephants and chickens. You are coming at the subject of health on a completely different path to me.

 

The body has evolved to do basic things. Protect itself, grow, reproduce and then protect the babe; as it was itself protected.

 

Given the tools, the body will maintain itself to keep in the best of health. It will heal itself, and whatever it does, is for the goodness of itself. When symptoms arise, they are the body putting right something that is amiss.

 

The white-coats would have us believe that there is an entity, called a virus, behind every tree, round each corner, just waiting to pounce. And of course if/when they do, a vaxx, created in a factory will sort it. I don't subscribe to that view one little bit.

 

You can insult me all you want, but the truth is there for anyone to see. Just have to open eyes and mind. But I will say Richard, that you do attempt to discuss; unlike some others.

 

Nature has the answers we seek.

 

[richard_smith237]

19 minutes ago, johng said:

 

They were quite quickly known.   yes at first a big panic

 

The flawed studies by the   Imperial College London contributed to the mass hysteria at first yes, but once the case fatality rate and  those most at risk had been clearly established  there was no longer any case for the measures that were implemented,  it was an overly authoritarian  overreaction  that caused massive damage not just to the economy and ordinary peoples lives   but also to trust in the  so called "trusted institutions"   medicine,science media and politics.

 

I agree...     

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, Stiddle Mump said:

You are nature Richard. Nature is you, Just as much as trees, elephants and chickens. You are coming at the subject of health on a completely different path to me.

 

The body has evolved to do basic things. Protect itself, grow, reproduce and then protect the babe; as it was itself protected.

 

Given the tools, the body will maintain itself to keep in the best of health. It will heal itself, and whatever it does, is for the goodness of itself. When symptoms arise, they are the body putting right something that is amiss.

 

The white-coats would have us believe that there is an entity, called a virus, behind every tree, round each corner, just waiting to pounce. And of course if/when they do, a vaxx, created in a factory will sort it. I don't subscribe to that view one little bit.

 

You can insult me all you want, but the truth is there for anyone to see. Just have to open eyes and mind. But I will say Richard, that you do attempt to discuss; unlike some others.

 

Nature has the answers we seek.

 

Interesting... So human life expectancy has got worse or improved over the last millennia then ?

[Stiddle Mump]

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Interesting... So human life expectancy has got worse or improved over the last millennia then ?

A walk though a graveyard 100 years ago would see mark ups of many 90 to 105 deaths. At the some time there were some awful medical practices going on, that resulted in as many as as half the infants not making it to 5 years of age. Averages don't tell the story.

 

Some of the biggest leaps forward in improved heath, came with public health measures. Garbage collections, sewerage systems and plumbing.

 

Unfortunately the Big Pharma health system came in at the turn of the 20th. Industry created new hazards, Farming went yield crazy, ruining the food for billions.

 

Are we healthier now than 150 years ago? I doubt it. We have certainly put money before nature. And that, when all said and done, is what we are an intricate part of.

 

I'm pretty sure, that if we took the road to nature, instead of the Big Pharma pathway of unending medical interventions, we would be healthier and happier. And the only part of the hospitals we would need is the A & E. 

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, Stiddle Mump said:

A walk though a graveyard 100 years ago would see mark ups of many 90 to 105 deaths. At the some time there were some awful medical practices going on, that resulted in as many as as half the infants not making it to 5 years of age. Averages don't tell the story.

 

Rubbish - the average life expectancy tells the whole story...   medical practices were not carried out on healthy people, most of those who needed medical intervention were already in a serious way.

 

2 minutes ago, Stiddle Mump said:

Some of the biggest leaps forward in improved heath, came with public health measures. Garbage collections, sewerage systems and plumbing.

 

Absolutely....  Is that nature ?? because other animals don't do this.

 

2 minutes ago, Stiddle Mump said:

Unfortunately the Big Pharma health system came in at the turn of the 20th. Industry created new hazards, Farming went yield crazy, ruining the food for billions.

 

Are we healthier now than 150 years ago? I doubt it. We have certainly put money before nature. And that, when all said and done, is what we are an intricate part of.

 

Yes, which is why we have a higher life expectancy...

Life expectancy 150 years ago was 30-40 years old - we died of good health did we ?

Our children's children are expected to see 150 years old.

 

2 minutes ago, Stiddle Mump said:

I'm pretty sure, that if we took the road to nature, instead of the Big Pharma pathway of unending medical interventions, we would be healthier and happier. And the only part of the hospitals we would need is the A & E. 

 

Comical tosh.... 

 

Why A&E - wouldn't you let nature find the way ?...   Would you allow A&E to administer antibiotics for sepsis and infections ?

 

 

 

 

 

[still kicking]

1 hour ago, Stiddle Mump said:

I'm pro-nature Richard. Thought that might be obvious.

Tree huggers don't live long

[atpeace]

2 hours ago, Will B Good said:

 

 

Wow.....that's exactly what Johnson and Hancock did........if only.

 

 

 I thought they were proponents of the herd immunity strategy that  didn't work IMO.  The post you replied to was stated that we should have focussed at those at risk and not locked down th young or healthy.  Far from the same strategy the Jonson and Hancock did.  Yes?

[rattlesnake]

2 hours ago, BLMFem said:

I have a dream. In it all the anti-vaxxer, anti-science morons all live together in one area where they live their short lives happily dodging an invention (vaccines)  that is hailed as one of the greatest scientific achievements in human history.

It would be splendid to see Darwin's principles in action drastically strengthening our gene pool.

 

By all means, the superior members of society should devise an actionable Final Solution to resolve the "Antivaxxer Question"…

[rattlesnake]

2 hours ago, Will B Good said:

 

Yes.....at least flat earthers 'go at' with constructive (albeit erroneous) arguments

 

I'll take that as a compliment, Will.