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New Report Reveals Hawk pilot Capt. Rebecca Lobach did not comply with critical directions


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Posted
1 hour ago, Presnock said:

yeah and based on this latest report, I even wonder why checkout flights were ever allowed in such areas.  The pilot obviuosly didn't pay attention to the "turn" and yeah the altitude problem with the helicopter sure didn't help either.

Waaaay to congested airspace for check out/training it was an unfortunate tragic incident the sex of the pilot in itself has no bearing or meaning just another horrible accident not the first nor the last.

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Posted
7 minutes ago, Purdey said:

I bet no one knows how many men have crashed helicopters.

When flying in extremely congested airspace wearing those night vision goggles/ horse binders……but ok go ahead brave men beat up on a dead service member patriot she’s dead so it’s safe …….just sad.I for one grieve ALL the dead am angered they would be flying choppers across the final approach to a busy airport.im certainly not onboard attacking the responsible pilot on account of their sex.

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Posted
3 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

I don't know about you, but I want them to take the lessons learned so this NEVER happens again.  Even if that reflects poorly on anyone involved, dead or alive.  Or on any policy that may have contributed to the death of over 60 innocent people.

 

+1 on that I just take umbrage at the DEI nonsense attacking someone on account of their sex a horrific tragedy and hopefully lessons learned.

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Posted
4 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Well this is a massive failure, either on the part of air traffic control, the helicopter crew, or a third party. I hear that Reagan Airport airspace is incredibly congested, and they should have systems in place to prevent these kinds of occurrences. It never should have happened. 

They do have systems in place to prevent these types of incidences. The OP clearly states the woman did not comply with instructions given.. Perhaps she thought she knew better haha... This is what we get when people are forced to include a certain number of DEI into the ranks. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, Tug said:

Actually the MALE flight engineer was supposed to be a 3rd set of eyes…..tell ya what why don’t you vomit that nonsense to senator Tammie duckworth ehh she would still tear you to pieces even without her legs lost flying combat for our country and I might add her ancestry is Thai…..just sad 😞 

How many women actually listen to a man? Especially in a stress situation. I am sure the air traffic controller was a man also that she was not listening to. She was in control of the craft. It does not matter what anyone else said or did not say. She did not listen or comply with critical instructions which caused the crash killing so many. 

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Posted
7 hours ago, deadbeat said:

Another dei failure.

She must have passed her flying exams to the required standard.  This was an annual flight evaluation, so she was a qualified pilot.  The fact that's she female is irrelevant, there should have been no allowances made to her based on gender (if there was then those accountable should be held to account).  If she was incompetent throughout her entire career (and it seems she was incompetent in this instance).  There's been no evidence that I've seen of her ongoing incompetence, including not being good enough to get her wings.   The investigation will uncover her piloting record and it'll likely become public domain.  Aviation accidents usually get looked into in such a depth that pretty much everything and anything will come out.

 

But yeah, I expect there's a a lot in this that if money wasn't wasted on DEI 💩 then all these people would still be with their familes.  Money spent on DEI isn't being spent on procedures, training and systems that would have avoided this crash.  Money spend on useless layers of management isn't being spent on procedures, training and systems that would have avoided this crash.

 

This was an accident waiting to happen; a completely avoidable accident.  Apparently there had been 100s of incidents around this airport that should have been acted upon, but were not, and the procedures were not changed when they should have been.  Although it's easy to blame the pilot, I think it's better blame the pilot AND investigate why she was put into this position in the first place.  DEI is a convenient excuse, but I'm not swallowing that; the root cause in my opinion is far deeper within the culture of the FAA than just the easy 'out' of blaming the woman.  "Safety First" seems not to exist in the FAA.

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Posted
16 hours ago, Tug said:

Waaaay to congested airspace for check out/training it was an unfortunate tragic incident the sex of the pilot in itself has no bearing or meaning just another horrible accident not the first nor the last.

from subsequent reports, the Defense Department and FAA have now cut out those helicopter flights in that location as yeah, too congested an area and obviously too dangerous too.  These plus other issues brought about this horrible tragedy for these 67 and their families.

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Posted
13 hours ago, thesetat said:

How many women actually listen to a man? Especially in a stress situation. I am sure the air traffic controller was a man also that she was not listening to. She was in control of the craft. It does not matter what anyone else said or did not say. She did not listen or comply with critical instructions which caused the crash killing so many. 

You just can’t help it…sad 

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Posted
16 hours ago, thesetat said:

. She was in control of the craft. It does not matter what anyone else said or did not say. She did not listen or comply with critical instructions which caused the crash killing so many. 

She was at controls but the flight instructor co pilot had ultimate authority in the cockpit. So when this strange female pilot disregarded the evasive maneuver??. The co pilot flight instructor would be justified in taking control of the helicopter, by force if necessary. But did not ??

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Posted
18 hours ago, thesetat said:

Perhaps she thought she knew better haha...

 

I'd bet my house that she had the last word in the debate. 😆 

 

"Typical man - why won't you just admit I was rig....."

 

image.png.5e81cb22fad67a81f39a0cffefcbd766.png

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Posted
21 hours ago, Tug said:

When flying in extremely congested airspace wearing those night vision goggles/ horse binders……but ok go ahead brave men beat up on a dead service member patriot she’s dead so it’s safe …….just sad.I for one grieve ALL the dead am angered they would be flying choppers across the final approach to a busy airport.im certainly not onboard attacking the responsible pilot on account of their sex.

I haven't seen anyone beat up on the fact it was a female pilot- the only thing I said about her is that she failed to follow the instruction of the radar operator within the control tower.  

Posted
19 minutes ago, Presnock said:

I haven't seen anyone beat up on the fact it was a female pilot- the only thing I said about her is that she failed to follow the instruction of the radar operator within the control tower.  

Maybe you're a wise man and have the posters who posted this on ignore.

 

"How many women actually listen to a man?"

"Typical man - why won't you just admit I was rig....."

Posted
18 minutes ago, Presnock said:

I haven't seen anyone beat up on the fact it was a female pilot- the only thing I said about her is that she failed to follow the instruction of the radar operator within the control tower.  

I've worked in this industry for over 38 years, and been involved in quite a few investigations.  The majority of accidents have multiple causal factors.  The most common is called 'human factors'.

 

Reading all that I have about this crash, and even in this thread there are some good points, what you've said Presnock is likely the final causal factor in this crash, not this first.  And in between the first and the last there's likely dozens if not 100s of issues that led to that final failure; had any one of those items not been there then it's likely all of these souls would still be with their families.  We used to call it the 'Swiss cheese effect', that cheese with all the holes in it.  If all of the Swiss cheese slices align you can see all the way through, move one slice a little bit and all of a sudden you can't see all the way through.  

 

I got some points to make by asking everyone a question.   At work or in personal life there is likely at least one occasion where your brain gets kind of over-loaded by information that takes a bit of time to sort out, but you probably were able to do so.  Sensory overload is a name for it.  A possible scenario is you are driving in bad weather, there's a car coming towards you with it's lights on main beam, the kids are fighting in the back, you lost a bunch of money at the craps table last night, you have a big issue at work, you're a bit hungover from last night, your wife is nagging at you as she saw a questionable message or photo on your phone and a dog runs out.  Hope you get the picture.  You brake you slide & crash, you swerve and you hit the oncoming car or a tree, you hit the horn and the dog stops to look at you so you run over the dog.  Or, you take your foot off the gas and let the dog keep on going.  Best is the last of course.  But would you do this?  You might if your parents shared their experiences with you and gave you that 'procedure' to follow to avoid the worst.

 

Sorry this is long, but I'm trying to give a picture of the sensory overload that this pilot was likely going through.  Night vision goggles at night, with literally 100s of external light sources.  Possibly one of the flight crew chatting about the bar they're going to later, instructions to other aircraft that are on the same frequency as she's trying to listen to.  Pressure from the USAF and her instructor to get this evaluation done without any delay or cancellation.  Multiple relevant but possibly conflicting instructions from multiple sources on the actions to take to avoid catastrophe (radio, other flight crew, flight instruments, blaring ACAS alert etc.).  The latter point is the final causal factor in Uberlingen - and they were male pilots.

 

BANG!

 

Other causal factors?  Being allowed to fly visual in controlled airspace close to a busy airport.  There's a biggie isn't it.  That isn't allowed?, 99.999999999% certainty that this crash would never happen.  The FAA's failure to assess this as one of the biggest risk factors, then mitigate that risk, is one of the biggest causal factors here.  This poor woman was at the end of a very long chain of events (failures, holes in the Swiss cheese), nearly all of them solvable or avoidable, nearly every one of them, if fixed or avoided, would have meant that this accident would never have happened.  

 

But yes, her actions or inactions appear, at the end, to have led to this accident.  Shame on anyone who automatically blames the woman.

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Posted
40 minutes ago, Watawattana said:

I've worked in this industry for over 38 years, and been involved in quite a few investigations.  The majority of accidents have multiple causal factors.  The most common is called 'human factors'.

 

Reading all that I have about this crash, and even in this thread there are some good points, what you've said Presnock is likely the final causal factor in this crash, not this first.  And in between the first and the last there's likely dozens if not 100s of issues that led to that final failure; had any one of those items not been there then it's likely all of these souls would still be with their families.  We used to call it the 'Swiss cheese effect', that cheese with all the holes in it.  If all of the Swiss cheese slices align you can see all the way through, move one slice a little bit and all of a sudden you can't see all the way through.  

 

I got some points to make by asking everyone a question.   At work or in personal life there is likely at least one occasion where your brain gets kind of over-loaded by information that takes a bit of time to sort out, but you probably were able to do so.  Sensory overload is a name for it.  A possible scenario is you are driving in bad weather, there's a car coming towards you with it's lights on main beam, the kids are fighting in the back, you lost a bunch of money at the craps table last night, you have a big issue at work, you're a bit hungover from last night, your wife is nagging at you as she saw a questionable message or photo on your phone and a dog runs out.  Hope you get the picture.  You brake you slide & crash, you swerve and you hit the oncoming car or a tree, you hit the horn and the dog stops to look at you so you run over the dog.  Or, you take your foot off the gas and let the dog keep on going.  Best is the last of course.  But would you do this?  You might if your parents shared their experiences with you and gave you that 'procedure' to follow to avoid the worst.

 

Sorry this is long, but I'm trying to give a picture of the sensory overload that this pilot was likely going through.  Night vision goggles at night, with literally 100s of external light sources.  Possibly one of the flight crew chatting about the bar they're going to later, instructions to other aircraft that are on the same frequency as she's trying to listen to.  Pressure from the USAF and her instructor to get this evaluation done without any delay or cancellation.  Multiple relevant but possibly conflicting instructions from multiple sources on the actions to take to avoid catastrophe (radio, other flight crew, flight instruments, blaring ACAS alert etc.).  The latter point is the final causal factor in Uberlingen - and they were male pilots.

 

BANG!

 

Other causal factors?  Being allowed to fly visual in controlled airspace close to a busy airport.  There's a biggie isn't it.  That isn't allowed?, 99.999999999% certainty that this crash would never happen.  The FAA's failure to assess this as one of the biggest risk factors, then mitigate that risk, is one of the biggest causal factors here.  This poor woman was at the end of a very long chain of events (failures, holes in the Swiss cheese), nearly all of them solvable or avoidable, nearly every one of them, if fixed or avoided, would have meant that this accident would never have happened.  

 

But yes, her actions or inactions appear, at the end, to have led to this accident.  Shame on anyone who automatically blames the woman.

in addition the army said the altimeter in the helicopter was faulty  from  the altitude that the control tower was measuring

Posted
40 minutes ago, Watawattana said:

But yes, her actions or inactions appear, at the end, to have led to this accident.  Shame on anyone who automatically blames the woman.

 

I don't see anyone "automatically blaming the woman".  I do see people questioning why anyone with 450 hours would be assigned to fly VIP politicians in and out of such a hazardous airport.  And noting that the guy she disobeyed was her instructor pilot, though she outranked him.  Which is another puzzler.

 

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