Report Abandoned Abroad: British Pensioner in Thailand Slams 'Immoral' Frozen Pensions Policy

[NorthernRyland]

4 minutes ago, Stocky said:

I said nothing about immigrants, the numbers don't add up with or without immigrants, people live far longer and the demographics have changed with more elderly and fewer youngsters.

 

One of the stated goals for immigration was rebalance the budgets by brining in new workers to things like pensions. It's not working though and there's a good reason for that, namely they're getting the wrong kind of immigrants.

[Thingamabob]

3 hours ago, Bannoi said:

If they can take the winter fuel allowance away from UK pensioners then there is no way they are going to give an increase to a pensioner living in Thailand.

 

There is a way around it though move back to UK get the increase then move back to Thailand or if you move to Philippines you would get the increase every year.

 

I agree it's not fair but its not going to change, a pensioner living in Thailand is very low down on the list of priorities. (They don't vote}

Aged 83, a Brit, and living permanently in Thailand since 1993, I voted in the last UK election. The fact that we now, at last, have been granted the right to vote gives us a little more clout but not, I fear, enough to change the UK government's position on frozen pensions. We have tried for years to get our pensions unfrozen. I once was a member of a delegation to the House of Commons on this issue, but all we got were nice words but no action whatsoever. Grossly unfair, but that's the way it is I'm afraid. 

[simon43]

"There is no reciprocal  agreement with the UK. If there was, he could get his adjustment. It takes 2 to make an agreement and Thailand did not agree. "

 

That statement is incorrect.  I will have to dig out my previous research on this matter, but many years ago (I think it was in the 1990's), the government of Thailand formally requested a social security agreement with the UK, similar to that between the UK and The Philippines.

 

The data that I researched stated that the UK government never made any response to the request from Thailand...

[Thingamabob]

3 hours ago, Bannoi said:

If they can take the winter fuel allowance away from UK pensioners then there is no way they are going to give an increase to a pensioner living in Thailand.

 

There is a way around it though move back to UK get the increase then move back to Thailand or if you move to Philippines you would get the increase every year.

 

I agree it's not fair but its not going to change, a pensioner living in Thailand is very low down on the list of priorities. (They don't vote}

Aged 83, a Brit, and living permanently in Thailand since 1993, I voted in the last UK election. The fact that we now, at last, have been granted the right to vote gives us a little more clout but not, I fear, enough to change the UK government's position on frozen pensions. We have tried for years to get our pensions unfrozen. I once was a member of a delegation to the House of Commons on this issue, but all we got were nice words but no action whatsoever. Grossly unfair, but that's the way it is I'm afraid. 

[Hugh Jarse]

3 hours ago, jas007 said:

I'm not from the UK, but I'm pretty sure this problem is going to get a lot worse in the coming months and years as inflation picks up, worldwide. There's too much debt in the world and, for the central banks of the world, the way out is inflation.  Money printing.  More and more money printing. 

 

What happens to these Brits if they return home?  Will they again receive the current rate in the UK?  Or are they stuck forever with a frozen pension?  And let's say they do go back for a year or so, what happens then if they return to Thailand? Frozen at the new rate, or do they revert to what it was when they first retired to Thailand? 

Pension would be upgraded, but you would need to be there for 6 months before availing yourself of NHs and other benefits. You would also need somewhere to live as housing wait lists are very,very long . You would have to be very desperate to return as the uk seems to be in the process of collapse. On return to Thailand pension would again be frozen unless you  play/fiddle the system and maintain a uk address.UK are looking into some folks bank accounts and it is rumoured that Thai authorities to assist uk in tracking down delinquents.

There is a world wide Campaign on frozen pensions but after 50 or so years it has been unsuccessful despite the totally unjust system. 
‘Despite having paid in to the system for over 35 years mine has been frozen for over 10 years and battling inflation here. 
‘The obvious messages to take in is never rely on the state to look after you in old age and be careful where you live in retirement. Philippines may be an option for you.

[Humpy]

Perhaps Thailand should have an agreement like the US........ more money would be coming into the country for expats to spend here. I receive UK state pension of £400 per month which has not increased for 20 years. I have a military pension on which I pay UK tax. I do not trouble the UK  NHS, ask for benefits or claim a heating allowance or free bus pass !!... but nice to know that the Immigrants in UK are enjoying their stay that I am helping to pay for.  Has anybody seen a copy of the 'Areement' between Thailand and the UK ? 

[Captain Flack]

Name calling troll post removed. @Toby1947

[Blueman1]

3 minutes ago, Trip Hop said:

 

I don't think that there is a set period.  You just go back, inform the DSS/HMRC that you are back living in the country and give them an address.  I suppose it will take a few weeks for any paperwork to be sent out and completed but as soon as that's done you can technically leave again.  

I don't think that there is a set period.  You just go back, inform the DSS/HMRC that you are back living in the country and give them an address....So, What Address Would I Put on my Sleeping Bag in The U.K. M8 ??

[NanLaew]

3 hours ago, worgeordie said:

Not the Christopher Lee ,I knew , We all would like more pension ,but the Government

won't give it ,they need the money for all the immigrants ,but Chris knew coming here

what the situation was , myself I get 90 quid a week ,because I retired early ,it is what

it is , no way is the Government going to help us ,it's like out of sight out of mind , 

 

regards Worgeordie

 

Since UK pensions have been frozen for the Thailand retiree since time immemorial, how is it now all the "immigrants" fault that some people didn't do any due diligence on their chosen retirement home?

[Blueman1]

2 minutes ago, Humpy said:

Perhaps Thailand should have an agreement like the US........ more money would be coming into the country for expats to spend here. I receive UK state pension of £400 per month which has not increased for 20 years. I have a military pension on which I pay UK tax. I do not trouble the UK  NHS, ask for benefits or claim a heating allowance or free bus pass !!... but nice to know that the Immigrants in UK are enjoying their stay that I am helping to pay for.  Has anybody seen a copy of the 'Areement' between Thailand and the UK ? 

 but nice to know that the Immigrants in UK are enjoying their stay that I am helping to pay for....Nice Bit of Sarcasm M8, I L;ike it......And,  Has anybody seen a copy of the 'Areement' between Thailand and the UK ?...Nooooooo !!

[impulse]

13 minutes ago, Blueman1 said:

 

Edit:  On an aside, why not move to the Philippines? But on an Aside....Why WOULD or SHOULD he Do That ??

 

Because he'll get more money?

 

[Blueman1]

1 minute ago, NanLaew said:

 

Since UK pensions have been frozen for the Thailand retiree since time immemorial, how is it now all the "immigrants" fault that some people didn't do any due diligence on their chosen retirement home?

myself I get 90 quid a week Your a Very Lucky Man then M8, I NEVER Retired until I was 67 Years of Age & Only get 72 Pounds a Week,Which has been Frozen Since 2016.......

[Peterphuket]

It is not just in the UK but in more european countries, take the Netherlands for example they are planning to raise the retirement age to 70, it is not so long ago that it was already raised from 65 to 68.
And to think there are countries in the EU where you can retire at 63.
The biggest cause is that it is becoming unaffordable and don't forget that all those imports are costing tons of money with the result that the autentic resident will pay the price and everything will be cut.

 

[Blueman1]

1 minute ago, impulse said:

 

Because he'll get more money?

 

But If He's Married, Her Indoors Might Not want to go to The P.I.

[Jonathan Swift]

I'm speaking as someone who admittedly has never been to the UK, and am not thoroughly familiar with life there. However, this has worked in the US:  someone should organize pickets, protests, press coverage, and anything you can do to shame your prime minister and parliament not acting on this. I feel terribly bad for all of you guys, the financial stress robs you of your enjoyment of this otherwise wonderful place. 

[ElwoodP]

Please note,

If you can't post without insulting other forum members, your post will be removed.

It costs nothing to be polite and civil to everyone.

[barney42bb]

2 hours ago, frank83628 said:

Sorry but if after 60yrs of working you only have the state pension to survive on you werent very good with your money.

Exactly.... And How many times has this issue been posted here???

 

If you decide to become an Ex_Pat in a Non Incremental State Pension Nation.

 

Don't Tell The HMRC Your Plans

Keep a UK Bank Account ,GP, and Post Code.

[UK Martin]

Is it possible to give a British address and keep receiving your state pension increases into a British bank ?

 

Some may say its immoral but I say so is stealing a pension increases from British people who have paid into the pot all their lives...

 

Thanks  

[Blueman1]

2 minutes ago, Blueman1 said:

myself I get 90 quid a week Your a Very Lucky Man then M8, I NEVER Retired until I was 67 Years of Age & Only get 72 Pounds a Week,Which has been Frozen Since 2016.......

Sorry Guys That was Worgeordie that said that.....

[Will B Good]

Anyone know?.....Thai wife 12 years NI paid, but never lived in the UK......will she still be entitled to a state pension when she hits retirement age?

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, smedly said:

when I came to live in Thailand the exchange rate was 76baht to the pound, exchange rates are by far more significant than state pension increases, I'm not old enough yet to claim a uk state pension

 

Yes. This will be the real problem for people coming here with the Pound at 50 Baht or more. Many assume that rates remain stable but forex history revels the potential for volatility. When I first visited Thailand. a quid got you 33 Baht. In early 1998 it went as high as 90 (just one day).

[ElwoodP]

@simple1 & @Jonathan Swift

I "post no insults please", and you both immediately insult other forum members.

Please stop!

[Blueman1]

3 minutes ago, barney42bb said:

Exactly.... And How many times has this issue been posted here???

 

If you decide to become an Ex_Pat in a Non Incremental State Pension Nation.

 

Don't Tell The HMRC Your Plans

Keep a UK Bank Account ,GP, and Post Code.

Don't Tell The HMRC Your Plans...And get Prosecuted for FRAUD,Which is a Jailable Offence,Now THAT Sounds Good Doesn't it ??

[Lancelot01]

4 hours ago, worgeordie said:

Not the Christopher Lee ,I knew , We all would like more pension ,but the Government

won't give it ,they need the money for all the immigrants ,but Chris knew coming here

what the situation was , myself I get 90 quid a week ,because I retired early ,it is what

it is , no way is the Government going to help us ,it's like out of sight out of mind , 

 

regards Worgeordie

You would think a 'former banker' would have been astute enough to have made sufficient provision for his future without having to rely on a state pension. 

[Blueman1]

7 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

Yes. This will be the real problem for people coming here with the Pound at 50 Baht or more. Many assume that rates remain stable but forex history revels the potential for volatility. When I first visited Thailand. a quid got you 33 Baht. In early 1998 it went as high as 90 (just one day).

 In early 1998 it went as high as 90 (just one day).Well 92 Actually,It was on my FINAL Day's Holiday & I'd Already Changed ALL My Pounds Sterling Before that 1 Day.....My Luck Stinks !!

[Magictoad]

4 hours ago, jas007 said:

I'm not from the UK, but I'm pretty sure this problem is going to get a lot worse in the coming months and years as inflation picks up, worldwide. There's too much debt in the world and, for the central banks of the world, the way out is inflation.  Money printing.  More and more money printing. 

 

What happens to these Brits if they return home?  Will they again receive the current rate in the UK?  Or are they stuck forever with a frozen pension?  And let's say they do go back for a year or so, what happens then if they return to Thailand? Frozen at the new rate, or do they revert to what it was when they first retired to Thailand? 

Very good questions. But who will answer them?

[nauseus]

1 minute ago, Blueman1 said:

 In early 1998 it went as high as 90 (just one day).Well 92 Actually,It was on my FINAL Day's Holiday & I'd Already Changed ALL My Pounds Sterling Before that 1 Day.....

 

It was 1998/ I remember it very well.

[biggles45]

While I have sympathy for him, anytime in the last 15 years he could have bailed to the Philippines for 3 months or so and had his pension permanently updated. It can even be done on line apparently. Promo fares with budget carriers are very cheap and it's only a 3 hour trip. 

 

Philippines has one of the easiest Visa free entry stays, you can continuously extend, upto 3 years. 

[Tiger1980]

2 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

 

No it is not. He is more likely to be being paid out more than what he paid in. It is an acknowledged fact that National Insurance contributions do not fully cover the cost of pension payouts for the majority of beneficiaries. It is not the UK taxpayer's fault that Thailand did not agree to a social security agreement with the UK. The EEA group of nations, the Philippines , much of the  larger Commonwealth Caribbean countries, Turkey and the USA  have an agreement.   He picked Thailand, a nation without an agreement.

 

There is no reciprocal  agreement with the UK. If there was, he could get his adjustment. It takes 2 to make an agreement and Thailand did not agree.

 

As a resident of Thailand, he is not paying any UK income tax is he? He pays his tax in Thailand, and most likely is at a lower tax rate than in the UK.  None of what he receives is  spent in the UK in  goods and services nor paid in taxes to the crown.

 

The pensioners in the UK are  paying taxes in the UK  on their income in excess of  £12,570 and they pay VAT and  many, pay council tax either in full or in part. The cost of living is higher for UK residents than it is for Thailand residents.  The UK pensioners spend their pensions in the UK  and many have a part  of their pensions clawed back by the UK government. 

 

it is successive British governments who have refused to make an agreements with most other countries, mainly Canada,Australia, New Zealand etc etc.

By living in Thailand he is actually saving the British Government money as he does not receive a free bus pass, possible subsidised housing and of course the use of the NHS. Just think if all the elderly British ex - pats returned home the NHs would collapse. He and all the elderly ex - pats are in fact saving the British Exchequer billions a year, what I cannot understand is why successive government have not been savvy enough to realize that by encouraging the elderly to emigrate the country would save a fortune.

 

Another factor to consider is that British pensioners receive approximately £10,000 pa, maybe after paying into the system for 40+ years, while the cost of the Illegal Economic migrants is approximately £42,000 pa.

[Trip Hop]

35 minutes ago, Andrew65 said:

In the UK I think that National Insurance is 9%, that's what the state pension is calculated from. We do still get healthcare included, and we used to get 'free' university, up until around 1998.

 

A common misunderstanding about NI and your state pension which is actually funded from taxation receipts.  They do however rely on your number of NI qualifying years to work out how much you receive.  You don't actually have to work to qualify for a year though as claiming unemployment allowance or sickness benefit is classed as the same.  So it's a mad world whereby if you do work a little but paid under the NI secondary threshold you don't get a qualifying year for your pension but if you don't work at all and sign sick/unemployed, you do!