America has emerged....as an international laughingstock

[RayC]

35 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

He could have done that. But then he would not have had the leverage he now has with the tariffs. Master negotiatior?

 

Master negotiator? What more leverage has Trump achieved by applying wholesale tariffs rather than by simply contacting his counterparts in the more traditional fashion?

 

35 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

I am not sure. Take China for instance. The tariffs are effectively a trade embargo on China. which China cannot afford.

 

The current tariffs applied by the US on China (and vica versa) will cause a massive decline in trade between the two nations but whether China cannot afford it is debatable.

 

The US accounts for 15% of China's exports which is a  significant number. However, the negative effects on China of losing the US market will be mitigated by the fact that the rest of the world will also be seeking new suppliers as a result of the tariff war. Moreover, don't forget that the obvious fact that a tariff war works both ways, and that US exporters to China will be greatly affected by Chinese tariffs on US goods (as will the wider US economy as the attached links indicate).

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0kxe1m1y26o.amp

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2025/04/28/trade-war-tariffs-full-blown-crisis-us-farm-exporters-say.html

 

35 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

I would suspect most nations when faced with considerable pain will do something to make that pain go away.

 

Indeed. And if the recent pronouncements from various countries are anything to go by that will mean a move away from the US market with countries seeking closer ties with more reliable partners. For example, Rachel Reeves has recently stated that the EU market is (arguably) more important to the UK than the US. Her's is not a lone voice.

 

35 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

I am sure that will happen anyway, but the operative words are "as much as possible". Many companies genuinely depend on the US market. They cannot just stop exporting there.

 

No doubt there are US produced goods which cannot easily be substituted but equally the reverse applies i.e. that US companies are dependent on goods produced overseas. 

 

Michel Barnier's comment that, 'There are no winners with Brexit' can be paraphrased and reused here: 'There are no winners in a trade war', which is why Trump's policy is in no one's interest.

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

Do you understand that the  reason he ever got to be big was because of all the money funneled to him by his father? How many people would have the inherited resources to fail time and time again.

In this world it is far easier to steal money through scams and gifting, bankruptcy, and taking small contractors for a painful ride, than it is to earn money in a righteous fashion. 

[Cameroni]

31 minutes ago, RayC said:

What more leverage has Trump achieved by applying wholesale tariffs rather than by simply contacting his counterparts in the more traditional fashion?

 

Pain he can take away, ie extra cards.

 

32 minutes ago, RayC said:

However, the negative effects on China of losing the US market will be mitigated

 

You don't believe that yourself. China is in deep trouble.

 

32 minutes ago, RayC said:

that will mean a move away from the US marke

 

Impossible, the EU can't absorb both  Chinese overproduction and all other countries who export to the US.

 

The fact is there are only two developed mega-markets, the US and Europe, and thus companies have to be in the US market.

 

34 minutes ago, RayC said:

Michel Barnier's comment that, 'There are no winners with Brexit' can be paraphrased and reused here: 'There are no winners in a trade war', which is why Trump's policy is in no one's interest.

 

I disagree. I think it is fundamentally different to Brexit. The US is not the UK. In the long run the US can benefit greatly from the trade war, already companies are coming in to build factories, offering the US to buy more  American products in an effort to avoid future tariffs. The US could very well come out of this trade war a winner.

[RayC]

2 hours ago, Cameroni said:

Pain he can take away, ie extra cards.

 

??? I don't understand. You'll have to clarify exactly what you mean.

 

2 hours ago, Cameroni said:

 

You don't believe that yourself. China is in deep trouble.

 

If your goal was to irritate me then congratulations, you've succeeded: There's little I dislike more than someone telling me what I think and/or believe.

 

2 hours ago, Cameroni said:

 

Impossible, the EU can't absorb both  Chinese overproduction and all other countries who export to the US.

 

Much depends on the product of course, but If Trump keeps this blanket worldwide tariff, the demand for US goods will fall. Ample opportunity for other countries - especially low-cost producers such as China - to step into the breach and reduce any perceived over-production.

 

2 hours ago, Cameroni said:

The fact is there are only two developed mega-markets, the US and Europe, and thus companies have to be in the US market.

 

If you count China as un(der)developed the I agree but it is also a mega-market.

 

In 2022 the US accounted for 13% of the world's goods imports ($3.1tn) and 8% of the world's exports ($2.0tn). No denying that they are big absolute numbers and significant proportions. However, the idea that the world's economy will simply collapse if the US decides to disengage itself is pie in the sky. 

 

2 hours ago, Cameroni said:

 

I disagree. I think it is fundamentally different to Brexit. The US is not the UK. In the long run the US can benefit greatly from the trade war, already companies are coming in to build factories, offering the US to buy more  American products in an effort to avoid future tariffs. The US could very well come out of this trade war a winner.

 

The current tariff war is obviously different in nature to Brexit but the analogy is justified. The misplaced, arrogant conceit of Brexiters is mirrored by supporters of Trump; the mantra is the same, 'They need us more than we need them'. There can be little doubt that in the case of Brexit this has has been proven untrue. I will concede that the US has a stronger hand to play in any negotiations than the UK had and Trump may well win some concessions from other nations, however, I very much doubt that it will lead to a fundamental reordering of international trade.

 

Imo in the medium/longer term, Trump's policy will be viewed in a similar light to Brexit: an act of economic sado-masochism.

[save the frogs]

On 4/28/2025 at 6:44 AM, BLMFem said:

Look at what he's turned the Oval Office into. Not even Liberace would have gone for something so gaudy and classless.

It looks like a pimp's wet dream, which means that Trump and Hegseth fit right in.

 

Yeah, the way Trump decorated the Oval Office bothers you.

What a joke.

He put cherubs in there. Angels. For good luck. Yes, made of gold. But so what? 

 

[Cameroni]

5 hours ago, RayC said:

The current tariff war is obviously different in nature to Brexit but the analogy is justified. The misplaced, arrogant conceit of Brexiters is mirrored by supporters of Trump; the mantra is the same, 'They need us more than we need them'. There can be little doubt that in the case of Brexit this has has been proven untrue. I will concede that the US has a stronger hand to play in any negotiations than the UK had and Trump may well win some concessions from other nations, however, I very much doubt that it will lead to a fundamental reordering of international trade.

 

Imo in the medium/longer term, Trump's policy will be viewed in a similar light to Brexit: an act of economic sado-masochism.

 

It's not just that the tariff war is different in nature to Brexit, but the UK economy and the US economy are fantastically different beasts. If the UK put tariffs like the US in place, people would indeed laugh and walk away,  nobody needs the UK market as much as they need the US market. This is what I meant. 

 

You see companies ACTUALLY need the US market, but they never needed the UK market as much. Whilst the current economic state of Britain would indicate that they needed the EU more than vice versa, of course the EU also needed the UK a lot, and is a lot poorer without the UK, so it's a fairly close run thing. It's not close at all with the US economy however, which is gigantic by comparison with the UK

 

I have not doubt at all that global trade is already changing shape due to the US tariffs, a fundmeantal reordering is and will take place, due to US decisions.

 

You do have a point that there is some pain involved for the US, some still to come, however, unlike the UK, the US can really benefit from this trade war, in ways the UK could never benefit from Brexit.

 

5 hours ago, RayC said:

If you count China as un(der)developed the I agree but it is also a mega-market.

 

China's market is huge, but its purchasing power is greatly underdeveloped, only 79th in the world, the US is around 89,000 and China around 13000 PPP.

 

5 hours ago, RayC said:

However, the idea that the world's economy will simply collapse if the US decides to disengage itself is pie in the sky. 

 

 

That's true of course, the world economy willl go on without the US, however, some companies will collapse if they cannot export to the US, already some Chinese factories are closing.

[hotsun]

7 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

It's not just that the tariff war is different in nature to Brexit, but the UK economy and the US economy are fantastically different beasts. If the UK put tariffs like the US in place, people would indeed laugh and walk away,  nobody needs the UK market as much as they need the US market. This is what I meant. 

 

You see companies ACTUALLY need the US market, but they never needed the UK market as much. Whilst the current economic state of Britain would indicate that they needed the EU more than vice versa, of course the EU also needed the UK a lot, and is a lot poorer without the UK, so it's a fairly close run thing. It's not close at all with the US economy however, which is gigantic by comparison with the UK

 

I have not doubt at all that global trade is already changing shape due to the US tariffs, a fundmeantal reordering is and will take place, due to US decisions.

 

You do have a point that there is some pain involved for the US, some still to come, however, unlike the UK, the US can really benefit from this trade war, in ways the UK could never benefit from Brexit.

 

 

China's market is huge, but its purchasing power is greatly underdeveloped, only 79th in the world, the US is around 89,000 and China around 13000 PPP.

 

 

That's true of course, the world economy willl go on without the US, however, some companies will collapse if they cannot export to the US, already some Chinese factories are closing.

This is what i said here over and over again on tariff day. The weapon is the american consumer, far more powerful than anything the rest of the world has

 

 

 

lefties here are so daft it doesnt sink in no matter how much you tell em

[Cameroni]

8 minutes ago, hotsun said:

This is what i said here over and over again on tariff day. The weapon is the american consumer, far more powerful than anything the rest of the world has

 

 

 

lefties here are so daft it doesnt sink in no matter how much you tell em

 

This is just a reality, the American market is the richest and most attractive in the world, and whatever pain it takes, companies will want to be in it.

 

Trump knows his hand, his department store analogy is exactly right.

[Jim Blue]

18 hours ago, Cameroni said:

 

Pfffft, so many, Vietnam, Japan, UK...too many to name.

Falkland Islands ? Oh sorry I forgot that's sheep not penguins .....

[Cameroni]

4 minutes ago, Jim Blue said:

Falkland Islands ? Oh sorry I forgot that's sheep not penguins .....

 

Try Argentina, India, South Korea, Japan, Indonesia,  the EU and China.

 

there have now been 18 proposals and more than 100 countries around the world who are wanting to make a deal with the United States of America.

 

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/white-house-says-trump-administration-has-18-trade-proposals-on-paper

[impulse]

I remember when my neighbor pissed off the entire street by tearing up his front lawn and hauling in loads of dirt and bricks and cement.  It was quite the eyesore.

 

It was a few months before it all got back to normal and he had the nicest front yard on the block.  And property values went up when the neighbors tried to keep up with the standard set by his yard.

 

[metisdead]

A troll post and a reply has been removed.

[rough diamond]

2 hours ago, Cameroni said:

Trump knows his hand, his department store analogy is exactly right.

He is supposed to be running a country and acting as the leader of the free world, not running the local Mom & Pop store!

[impulse]

13 minutes ago, rough diamond said:

He is supposed to be running a country and acting as the leader of the free world, not running the local Mom & Pop store!

 

Maybe, but if she can't run a Mom & Pop store, do you think Harris, AOC or their ilk could run the country? 

 

Other than into the ground, I mean...

 

Vote us in and you'll get free stuff.  That seems to be their sales pitch.

 

[rough diamond]

Just now, impulse said:

Maybe, but if she can't run a Mom & Pop store, do you think Harris, AOC or their ilk could run the country? 

I am talking about Trump's actions. Stop deflecting.

[impulse]

1 minute ago, rough diamond said:

I am talking about Trump's actions. Stop deflecting.

 

What deflecting?  Trump could run a Mom & Pop store.  The knobs that the Dems are putting in front of the voters couldn't even do that.

 

[Mavideol]

18 hours ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

A thousand $$ to anyone that can ACCURATELY state his 30 felonies. Trump has no idea. Just expired misdemeanors linked to an unknown unspecified crime.

Bragg, James and Merchan will pay the real price for concocting up this bs. James already running scared after getting her chubby digits stuck in the cookie jar. Ouch!

don't waste your money, if it's that important for you to know just google it and the read the court rullings

[Dan O]

23 hours ago, candide said:

The art of the retreat! 🤣

 

He's too dumb to be tactical! From his perspective, it was stupid to put tariffs on such a high number of countries at the same time, representing more than 70% of U.S. foreign trade. He should have targeted them one after the other (at least for the largest economies). 

Just like his approach to downsizing the government and using Doge to slash and burn everything at the same time. Irrational and overly destructive without significant success.

[Mavideol]

somebody here, one of the maga blindsided cronies,  claimed he, Trump, did make a deal with Vietnam... another lie

Vietnam, US trade talks all set to begin

https://www.msn.com/en-xl/money/other/vietnam-us-trade-talks-all-set-to-begin/ar-AA1DOmbc?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=LCTS&cvid=9d66f1401cd243398daa5d2a6567fec4&ei=80

 

[kimothai]

Lefty tears! Just mention the name Trump and lefties start spinning in circles chasing their tails. 

[newbee2022]

On 4/28/2025 at 12:49 PM, TheAppletons said:

"What’s now increasingly obvious, however, is that Trump is in ragged retreat; he’s compromising all over the shop, such that if the plan was to upend the established global order, one can almost definitely say that, beyond the rhetoric, it is already over.

 

Rank lack of professionalism and organisation has defined the endeavour all along, and now it’s coming apart at the seams. Sensing an administration on the run, no one is any longer hurrying to do a trade deal with the US. From Britain to Canada and beyond, getting the right deal rather than a quick one has become the new mantra."

 

and

 

"Trump has in the meantime made himself – and the US – into an international laughing stock, never mind the damage that policy uncertainty is inflicting on the global economy." 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/04/26/trumps-attempt-to-upend-the-global-order-defeated/

Everything right. 

However, we will have to live with this POTUS for while, though nobody knows how long.

One good thing maybe: instead of MAGA he created MEGA (make Europe great again)

[TheAppletons]

13 minutes ago, kimothai said:

Lefty tears! Just mention the name Trump and lefties start spinning in circles chasing their tails. 

 

  I know right?  I'm crying from laughing so hard at what a brain dead buffoon the guy has become and I'm not even a die hard lefty.

 

  It's as if The Three Stooges had a baby with Roseanne Barr and then threw it down a flight of stairs.

[JoeRan]

The US has been the laughingstock of the world for sometime now. It’s only in the last decade that the world is really seeing Americans for what they really are. Uneducated, egotistical, simple humans. 
The sad part is they still think they are the center of the universe. It will take years, if not decades to dig themselves out of the mess they have brought on themselves. I feel sorry for the intelligent, common sense citizens that have been caught up in the circus they belong to. 

[Thingamabob]

Way too early to judge the current US Presidency. Also, living in East Asia and travelling widely around the world, I'm not aware that the US has become a 'laughing stock'.

[rough diamond]

47 minutes ago, impulse said:

What deflecting?  Trump could run a Mom & Pop store.

I'm not too sure going by his failure to even run a casino or two!

[ignore it]

Say what you will, Trump can stay awake and form complete sentences.

[rough diamond]

Just now, Thingamabob said:

Way too early to judge the current US Presidency. Also, living in East Asia and travelling widely around the world, I'm not aware that the US has become a 'laughing stock'.

There is a good chance that you could become a 'laughing stock' with that comment!

🤣

[rough diamond]

Just now, ignore it said:

Say what you will, Trump can stay awake and form complete sentences.

He cannot do both at the same time. 

He is either asleep when he dreams up his nonsenses which are complete sentences to him, or he opens his mouth and lies!

[Andrewdownunder]

On 4/28/2025 at 12:49 PM, TheAppletons said:

"What’s now increasingly obvious, however, is that Trump is in ragged retreat; he’s compromising all over the shop, such that if the plan was to upend the established global order, one can almost definitely say that, beyond the rhetoric, it is already over.

 

Rank lack of professionalism and organisation has defined the endeavour all along, and now it’s coming apart at the seams. Sensing an administration on the run, no one is any longer hurrying to do a trade deal with the US. From Britain to Canada and beyond, getting the right deal rather than a quick one has become the new mantra."

 

and

 

"Trump has in the meantime made himself – and the US – into an international laughing stock, never mind the damage that policy uncertainty is inflicting on the global economy." 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/04/26/trumps-attempt-to-upend-the-global-order-defeated/

British/Chinese propaganda. Always far from the truth. Move to China why don't you.

[phetphet]

How can you make a deal with someone who is likely to renege on it in six months, insisting he wants a better one and will impose tariffs unless agreement is forthcoming?