My Second Annual Extension For Support Of A Thai Wife

[Sunbelt Asia]

( Can someone please verify for me that, in fact, the Royal Thai Police Order 606/2549 is still in effect, it has not been changed, and there is no other written document )

Still in effect.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[higgy88]

So the way I see this, any immigration office can change any of the provisions of the Police Order at any time for whatever reason, and if, for whatever reason, an immigration officer decides that he/she does not want me in Thailand then I must leave. Is this correct?

[Sunbelt Asia]

So the way I see this, any immigration office can change any of the provisions of the Police Order at any time for whatever reason, and if, for whatever reason, an immigration officer decides that he/she does not want me in Thailand then I must leave. Is this correct?

In a nutshell, yes they have that discretion. You do have the right to appeal the decision.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[higgy88]

Thanks for the clarification. I definately can't afford to make anyone there mad at me, so I'll just keep on smiling and let my wife do the talking, just like I've been doing for the last 16+ years. Would my only avenue of appeal be with the police or would I be able to take it up with a judge and the Thai legal system?

[Maestro]

So the way I see this, any immigration office can change any of the provisions of the Police Order at any time for whatever reason...

It’s not that individual officers change the official rules, but that one officer may interpret an “if” in the rules differently than another officer, or where a rule requires evidence for something he may ask for a different type of evidence.

Take the example of the officer who tells you that you cannot get a new extension to live with Thai wife based on 400k even though you had this type of extension already before October 2006. So you go and get a certified letter from your consulate to prove that you have a minimum monthly income of 40k. With this officer’s interpretation of the rules, you have just given him evidence that you do not qualify for “grandfathering”, because the rule says that you can continue with 400k in the bank only if you do not have the 40k monthly income.

--------------

Maestro

[opalhort]

Yes, I know tax-receipts will (should) do - but what if thai spouse's income amounts to say 10,000 b/m? That will keep her in the tax-free bracket - so consequently, she'll have no tax-receipts --- So, what documentation is required then?

Everybody who earns an income in Thailand, however small, has to file a tax return by March 31 every year!

Form ภ.ง.ด. 90 or 91 even if no tax is due! A copy of this form together with the original receipt issued when the form was submitted is required.

opalhort

Edited August 10, 2007 by opalhort

[geoffphuket]

As an update, I returned to the immigration office today with the letter from the British Consul confirming my income. The application has now been submitted and copies sent to Bangkok for approval - they've given me a 30 day extension.

Whilst there, I questioned the Captain, if next year they'd still need copies of my bank book and a letter from the bank confirming the balance. The answer, which I had him repeat, was 'NO' .....Hmmm time will tell.

On the upside to all this, I no longer need to keep 400K in the bank earning 0.5%. The downside as I see it, is that over the years the 40K requirement is bound to constantly rise, so by the time I'm an old man, I'll no longer meet the income requirement. With the old system I could have simply put more cash on deposit - which would have been no problem. I'm now seriously considering if it wouldn't be better to relocate the family back to the UK

geoffphuket

[higgy88]

Would my only avenue of appeal be with the police or would I be able to take it up with a judge and the Thai legal system?

I really hope that this question does not go unanswered as it is important to me. Is there a higher authority in Thailand that the police must answer to and justify their actions to, such as in the Thai courts?

[K2K]

I'm now seriously considering if it wouldn't be better to relocate the family back to the UK

geoffphuket

Thanks for the update - your case was similar to mine (even though I did get the 400k extension this time) but seriously wonder if its worth the effort. All this running around with paper work is a total waste of time - years of submitting the same documents in duplicate - then the prospect of being forced to become "Retired" at 50 and run around Bangkok for more stamps from the Ministry of Silly Walks (MFA) .... its just insane. I'll see if the Constitution pases the election on 19th in the hope for an elected Government that eases this process (with any luck).

To higgy88 - I guess you can spend a small fortune and wait years in which time while you took the case to higher court most likely you would be deemed Persona non grata and booted out anyway.

[higgy88]

Thanks K2K but what I can and cannot do wasn't really my question even though I may have phrased it that way. My real question is do the police have to answer to a higher authority, and I was actually hoping for an answer from Sunbelt while he was still on this thread.

[Krub]

Thanks K2K but what I can and cannot do wasn't really my question even though I may have phrased it that way. My real question is do the police have to answer to a higher authority, and I was actually hoping for an answer from Sunbelt while he was still on this thread.

I seriously doubt it would be worth the effort time and cost totry and bring the police to court.......over a decision to allow the 400kk or not.

Wouldn't it be easier to go to Bangkok and try to renew there ?

[Sunbelt Asia]

Would my only avenue of appeal be with the police or would I be able to take it up with a judge and the Thai legal system?

You appeal by presenting the written explanation to the officer with a Captain ranking or Vice Captain rank. You submit a new petition form for their consideration as well.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[geoffphuket]

Would my only avenue of appeal be with the police or would I be able to take it up with a judge and the Thai legal system?

You appeal by presenting the written explanation to the officer with a Captain ranking or Vice Captain rank. You submit a new petition form for their consideration as well.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

All applications in Phuket are vetted by the Captain before being submitted to Bangkok for approval. You could present him with whatever you like, but it's unlikely he'd lose face and change any decisions.

[higgy88]

Thank you very much for your answers, Sunbelt, and I am very sorry for bothering you with my questions. So appeals of decisions made by the police are done through the police. Not quite the answer I was hoping for, but definitely the answer I expected.

[geoffphuket]

I'd just like to thank all those contributing to this thread. Information shared is what TV is all about

Reading through all the replies so far, my conclusion would be that regardless of whatever the immigration regulations stipulate on paper, at ground zero it comes down to the individual interpretation of the officer dealing with the application..... and what sort of day he's having!

[whopper]

I'd just like to thank all those contributing to this thread. Information shared is what TV is all about

Reading through all the replies so far, my conclusion would be that regardless of whatever the immigration regulations stipulate on paper, at ground zero it comes down to the individual interpretation of the officer dealing with the application..... and what sort of day he's having!

so true, the real checklist should be......smile,dress smart,smile,be polite,no attitude,smile,wear a yellow shirt,bring cookies,smile,shave and haircut, smile.....additionally try to go when they aren't so busy to eliminate the bad day option. It may sound crazy, but I think the above will improve the chances for a sucessfull renewal.

[Lite Beer]

I'd just like to thank all those contributing to this thread. Information shared is what TV is all about

Reading through all the replies so far, my conclusion would be that regardless of whatever the immigration regulations stipulate on paper, at ground zero it comes down to the individual interpretation of the officer dealing with the application..... and what sort of day he's having!

so true, the real checklist should be......smile,dress smart,smile,be polite,no attitude,smile,wear a yellow shirt,bring cookies,smile,shave and haircut, smile.....additionally try to go when they aren't so busy to eliminate the bad day option. It may sound crazy, but I think the above will improve the chances for a sucessfull renewal.

You forgot the bottle of whisky.

[bruceboy]

I've had a very busy day today. I thought being 'in the system' already, immigration would accept my bank deposit as they did last year - WRONG ! My application was put on hold pending them receiving documentation proving 40K Baht/month income. Fortunately the British Consulate in Phuket was able to issue me with a letter (free of charge!) showing income from offshore investment....I'm told this will be accepted. I'll find out tomorrow. So much for the supposed grand fathering for old timers

I am right to assume that this is your second extension then? Apart from your income letter what else did you have to bring along?

I do not want to spread any news prematurely, but I do have a hunch that in future, even if married, they (immigration) will go for the income letter only and want to see that money in Thailand.

Yep, second extension. The (Phuket) office now have a new Pamphlet outlining the requirements for each type of visa - I'd copy and post it, buy my dear wife, bless her, has given it to one of her friends . I'll pick up another tomorrow.

Despite not being interested in the 400K+ deposit, they've filed copies of my bank book, confirmation letter from the bank confirming the balance, marriage registration documents - they don't accept a marriage certificate as proof of marriage any more!, Tabien Ban, wife's I.D card, our son's birth certificate (required), Completed TM7 and 1,900 Baht - I have to call back in tomorrow with the income letter from the Consulate.

Great post

[tamsin]

I'd just like to thank all those contributing to this thread. Information shared is what TV is all about

Reading through all the replies so far, my conclusion would be that regardless of whatever the immigration regulations stipulate on paper, at ground zero it comes down to the individual interpretation of the officer dealing with the application..... and what sort of day he's having!

so true, the real checklist should be......smile,dress smart,smile,be polite,no attitude,smile,wear a yellow shirt,bring cookies,smile,shave and haircut, smile.....additionally try to go when they aren't so busy to eliminate the bad day option. It may sound crazy, but I think the above will improve the chances for a sucessfull renewal.

You forgot the bottle of whisky.

and don't forget to prostrate yourselves and drag yourselves towards the desk. did you check in your self respect at the airport as well as your brains?

[Jersey_UK]

I dunno why I was reading this thread!

Anyway, what caught my eye was that a marriage certificate was no longer accepted, kinda worried me for a minute - I am guessing that what it actually means is that it is not accepted alone as evidence of a genuine marriage.

FWIW, the Missus told me that 10 / 15 years back the Taiwanese especially were well known for marrying in Thailand solely for the Visa benefits (and paying accordingly!)......at least in the wife's "social circle" , so I guess immigration do have a point........

[Stabbo-Lad]

After reading the problems some of you guys have, I'm relieved to be in Bangkok and using Suan Plu. I've just got my 3rd extension based on 400k and it was an absolute breeze this time - easiest yet. No mention at all of any upcoming changes that will affect me for next time.

SL.

[lopburi3]

I dunno why I was reading this thread!

Anyway, what caught my eye was that a marriage certificate was no longer accepted, kinda worried me for a minute - I am guessing that what it actually means is that it is not accepted alone as evidence of a genuine marriage.

FWIW, the Missus told me that 10 / 15 years back the Taiwanese especially were well known for marrying in Thailand solely for the Visa benefits (and paying accordingly!)......at least in the wife's "social circle" , so I guess immigration do have a point........

These document copies have always been required, as per below official requirements list on Immigration web site, as proof the wife has Thai residence (nothing to do with marriage):

Documents indicating Thai nationality or permanent residence of the wife such as identification card (ID), census registration address / residence identification, or passport (in case that the wife is a permanent resident

[geoffphuket]

I dunno why I was reading this thread!

Anyway, what caught my eye was that a marriage certificate was no longer accepted, kinda worried me for a minute - I am guessing that what it actually means is that it is not accepted alone as evidence of a genuine marriage.

FWIW, the Missus told me that 10 / 15 years back the Taiwanese especially were well known for marrying in Thailand solely for the Visa benefits (and paying accordingly!)......at least in the wife's "social circle" , so I guess immigration do have a point........

These document copies have always been required, as per below official requirements list on Immigration web site, as proof the wife has Thai residence (nothing to do with marriage):

Documents indicating Thai nationality or permanent residence of the wife such as identification card (ID), census registration address / residence identification, or passport (in case that the wife is a permanent resident

The marriage certificate is not acceped alone (IN PHUKET) as proof of marriage. They are still asking for, as they did last year, signed copies of the marriage registration documents from the amphur office where the marriage was recorded - This is NOT the declaration of 'freedom to marry' from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs - I've no idea how they deal with couples married in Farangland. The papers are easily obtained for 20 Baht, it's just the inconvenience of extra running around.

[geoffphuket]

I'd just like to thank all those contributing to this thread. Information shared is what TV is all about

Reading through all the replies so far, my conclusion would be that regardless of whatever the immigration regulations stipulate on paper, at ground zero it comes down to the individual interpretation of the officer dealing with the application..... and what sort of day he's having!

so true, the real checklist should be......smile,dress smart,smile,be polite,no attitude,smile,wear a yellow shirt,bring cookies,smile,shave and haircut, smile.....additionally try to go when they aren't so busy to eliminate the bad day option. It may sound crazy, but I think the above will improve the chances for a sucessfull renewal.

Whopper, I turned up at 9:00am smartly dressed, new hair cut, shaven and as polite as an angel, I even managed a forced smile which went totally unnoticed, the officer never once took his eyes off the desk in front of him......are the cookies to eat whilst waiting, or throw to get their attention? Oh bugger, we forgot the yellow T shirts, that must have been it

[mkmike]

Just to add my twopenny worth, had my extension (No.2) granted at the end of June in Kanchanaburi based on 400k. All went through without a problem other than a 3 day delay getting approval from Bangkok (told they were overloaded). We were married in the UK and have a Thai translation of the British certificate, approved etc which seems to work ok. Have had a home visit both years from the Imm police, but this was straightforward. Staff in Kanchanaburi are always friendly and very helpful, would recommend it to anyone living this side of BKK.