Report Diners Stop Customer Trying to Skip VAT at Bangkok Ramen Restaurant

[Eaglekott]

In Thailand you have to pay 7% VAT on the service charge as well, so service charge is added before VAT.

 

I usually give tip, not if they apply charge service charge.

 

1000 Baht meal + 10% service charge =  1100฿ plus 7% VAT = 1177. Baht 

[FritsSikkink]

13 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Eu law, the advertised price is the price you pay.

They may itemise the bill in different ways, but can't charge more than the sticker price.

No always, if there is an obvious fault at the sticker price for instance, they forget 2 zeroes at the price of a car then they won't have to sell it for that price.

[BritManToo]

Just now, FritsSikkink said:

No always, if there is an obvious fault at the sticker price for instance, they forget 2 zeroes at the price of a car then they won't have to sell it for that price.

Now you're desperately quibbling.

[NoshowJones]

4 hours ago, ikke1959 said:

Indeed, but I think the problem here in Thailand is that they can't calculate how much VAT is included when they sell something for 300 THB.. You need a bit Maths for it and as the education is very low it is too difficult to find out. Easier is add the VAT later so easy to find it back. But the customers are being scammed.. Discount 10%, but with the  VAT of 7%  added, the discount is not more than 3 % for example.. That is legal scam...

 

Same for a bottle of wine in a restaurant... The wine is heavily taxed already but they add again a 7% VAT on it...and sometimes even service charge... And than wondering why people buy less

From what I have seen, the average Thai restaurant has the price plus about 17% taxes showing in the small print. Why is it in the small print? Obviously because they hope that customers won't notice it, and I would bet that most of them don't.

[Andrew65]

4 hours ago, jaywalker-2 said:

Come to Florida where there is a State 6% sales tax + a local 1% county tax, plus an "expected" 15-20% tip. If the bill is $20 USD...just call it $30.

 

How do people afford a plane ticket if they are that cheap?

 

Saving 20 baht on every meal????

 

 

It's not really about the 20 Baht, but that it seems as though the advertised price is misleading.  In the UK it tends to be the price you see is the price you pay.

I remember often seeing beer advertised as 99++ Baht in Bangkok.

[zz4096]

11 minutes ago, NoshowJones said:

From what I have seen, the average Thai restaurant has the price plus about 17% taxes showing in the small print. Why is it in the small print? Obviously because they hope that customers won't notice it, and I would bet that most of them don't.

 

It's not 17% tax in those establishments. It's 10% service charge plus 7% VAT (Value Added Tax). VAT is levied on the base price plus the service charge so the total additional extra charges are 17.7% of the base price shown on the menu.

[josephbloggs]

2 hours ago, JAS21 said:

I think that if there is no Tax ID on the bill you shouldn't be charged VAT. I await your comment .....

 

Correct. And this restaurant does display it on their receipts, as well as clearly stating 7% will be added on every page of their menu. This restaurant has done absolutely nothing wrong. I await your comment.

I doubt there is a dine in restaurant anywhere that isn't VAT registered. Thailand is pretty strict when it comes to VAT enforcement and the rules around registration.

[josephbloggs]

2 hours ago, loong said:

I must admit that I don't know for sure what Ramen noodles are. I always assumed that they are cheap budget meals (for students etc.),

Are they something like Mama noodles?

You've really never heard of them? Ramen noodles are nothing like Mama noodles. They are Japanese wheat noodles served in a broth with various toppings and usually some slow braised pork.

 

Quote

Rama noodles served in a petrol station does sound luxurious though. 😉especially if they can charge 300 Baht for them!

 

It is a standalone dine in restaurant that is located around the perimeter of a PTT station - they often have lots of full restaurants. 300 baht is nothing extraordinary for ramen noodles in a restaurant. Either you are the cheapest guy around or you are being deliberately obtuse.

Here is the restaurant in question. Does 300 baht look out of place for a meal there?



 

 

[Falang2026]

1 hour ago, FritsSikkink said:

No they are not, some prices are BTW included others aren't. Have a proper look at a receipt when you buy more expensive items.

excluded is only when you have a business in the Netherlands.

[wwest5829]

15 hours ago, ikke1959 said:

That is in fact true.. Many times you see prices here and you are being always surprised with addition of service fee and tax.. Why not publish just the price included??  I had even at a sushi shop that at the end of the bill there was 7% tax while nowhere was a sigh that tax was not included.. It seems cheap, but in fact it misleading the consumer

Cross cultural differences. As an American, I was used to seeing the price and then the added tax on the bill. But traveling elsewhere? Usually see the price which included the tax in Europe, if I recall correctly. Here in Thailand, the price, VAT stated and added and at many restaurants a sever ice charge added for the final total.

[zz4096]

31 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

 

Correct. And this restaurant does display it on their receipts, as well as clearly stating 7% will be added on every page of their menu. This restaurant has done absolutely nothing wrong. I await your comment.

I doubt there is a dine in restaurant anywhere that isn't VAT registered. Thailand is pretty strict when it comes to VAT enforcement and the rules around registration.

 

Is the establishment legally obliged to show their tax ID number on the bill? I'm looking at photos of computerised bills from random restos across Bangkok that itemise the VAT, however I'm not seeing anything that looks like a TIN.

[zz4096]

1 minute ago, wwest5829 said:

Cross cultural differences. As an American, I was used to seeing the price and then the added tax on the bill. But traveling elsewhere? Usually see the price which included the tax in Europe, if I recall correctly. Here in Thailand, the price, VAT stated and added and at many restaurants a sever ice charge added for the final total.

 

Here in Bangkok it varies from place to place. Some are nett, others add only VAT on top, others add service charge only, others add service charge plus VAT. That's based on my experiences  over the last 3 and a bit years of living here.

[8OA8]

6 hours ago, topt said:

You are just being 'difficult'..........

You know it is on almost everything in the UK - I think children's clothes and books used to be excepted. 

Bbbbuuuut, if a business's turnover is below £85,000, they're not required to register for VAT, but that means you cant charge VAT on your sales nor claim VAT back on your purchase of goods or services used in order to make those sales.

[josephbloggs]

16 minutes ago, zz4096 said:

 

Is the establishment legally obliged to show their tax ID number on the bill? I'm looking at photos of computerised bills from random restos across Bangkok that itemise the VAT, however I'm not seeing anything that looks like a TIN.

No, they are not legally obliged to have it on a regular sales receipt, although many do. However if they are charging VAT they are legally obliged to produce a tax invoice if asked.  If it is a business purchase and you plan to reclaim the input VAT you need a tax invoice which shows your company details, the seller's company details, and the VAT breakdown. Any VAT registered company will know about this, it is very very standard.

 

If I buy stuff in a supermarket for my company I will ask for a tax invoice (there is often a separate desk that just deals with these so as not to clog up the checkout). Normally you only need to give your company's tax ID and it'll come up on their system. If my admin lady goes to 7-Eleven to buy milk for the coffee machine she gets a tax invoice. I have got them myself from many restaurants if taking staff or clients for food or drinks. I guarantee if you ask this particular restaurant for a tax invoice after the meal they'll ask for your company info and give you one.

 

[zz4096]

12 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

No, they are not legally obliged to have it on a regular sales receipt, although many do. However if they are charging VAT they are legally obliged to produce a tax invoice if asked.  If it is a business purchase and you plan to reclaim the input VAT you need a tax invoice which shows your company details, the seller's company details, and the VAT breakdown. Any VAT registered company will know about this, it is very very standard.

 

If I buy stuff in a supermarket for my company I will ask for a tax invoice (there is often a separate desk that just deals with these so as not to clog up the checkout). Normally you only need to give your company's tax ID and it'll come up on their system. If my admin lady goes to 7-Eleven to buy milk for the coffee machine she gets a tax invoice. I have got them myself from many restaurants if taking staff or clients for food or drinks. I guarantee if you ask this particular restaurant for a tax invoice after the meal they'll ask for your company info and give you one.

 

 

Thanks for the detailed info. I had assumed something like that but it's good to have confirmation. 

[sambum]

16 hours ago, ikke1959 said:

That is in fact true.. Many times you see prices here and you are being always surprised with addition of service fee and tax.. Why not publish just the price included??  I had even at a sushi shop that at the end of the bill there was 7% tax while nowhere was a sigh that tax was not included.. It seems cheap, but in fact it misleading the consumer

 

In the UK I believe it is mandatory to show on the menu that VAT is included or not - and the same applies to service charge, which I believe is as it should be.

 

 I was in a restaurant here a few years ago where neither was shown on the menu, and of course when the bill arrived it was far in excess of what I was expecting, so I complained to the waitress. She immediately took it to the Pay Desk where the Service Charge was scrubbed , but I still had to pay the VAT, even though I said that in "my country" that would be illegal.

(I believe service charge is a matter of choice - good service, good tip - bad service, no tip!)

[daejung]

15 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

Rubbish. Every restaurant has to include 7% VAT. Only an idiot doesn't know that. It was 21 baht!!

This one was Ozawa Ramen at PTT Suksawat. Their menu clearly states on every single page that 7% VAT will be applied. If they hide it or don't mention it then fair enough, but it is printed there very clearly.

Also should be noted that they DO NOT charge 10% or any service charge. So they are better than most restaurants.

"arguing that VAT should not apply in the same manner as it does at a 7-Eleven store, where she claimed VAT is handled differently." The customer is an idiot and has no idea how business works.

 

It's clearer when VAT and service are included in the price !

[josephbloggs]

29 minutes ago, daejung said:

 

It's clearer when VAT and service are included in the price !

Yes, of course it is. But nothing wrong with what they did when it states on every page of their menu that 7% VAT will be added.

[PingRoundTheWorld]

Pretty sure VAT is supposed to be included in the price displayed on the menu, if it wasn't she was completely right. If the menu did display the final price correctly however, STAH.

[josephbloggs]

6 minutes ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

Pretty sure VAT is supposed to be included in the price displayed on the menu, if it wasn't she was completely right. If the menu did display the final price correctly however, STAH.

SubTotal Abdominal Haemorrhage?

And no, it does not have to be included in the listed price as long as it is clearly stated that VAT will be added - usually it's standard to put it at the bottom of the menu pages, just as this restaurant does.

If you do not include it in the price and it is not clearly stated that it will be added then this can be considered deceptive pricing. But again, there was nothing deceptive at all going on here, just two cheap charlies trying to get away with a massive 21 baht.

[josephbloggs]

3 hours ago, sambum said:

 

She immediately took it to the Pay Desk where the Service Charge was scrubbed , but I still had to pay the VAT, even though I said that in "my country" that would be illegal.

 

Ah, one of those "in my country" guys. 

[Celsius]

18 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

Ozawa Ramen

 

Her Ramen was delish 

 

 

[Celsius]

Who ever downvoted Maria Ozawa is gay

[Lucky Bones]

If you are eating at a petrol station, I doubt you go back anyway. Rubbish story.🙃🙃

[loong]

8 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

You've really never heard of them? Ramen noodles are nothing like Mama noodles. They are Japanese wheat noodles served in a broth with various toppings and usually some slow braised pork.

 

 

It is a standalone dine in restaurant that is located around the perimeter of a PTT station - they often have lots of full restaurants. 300 baht is nothing extraordinary for ramen noodles in a restaurant. Either you are the cheapest guy around or you are being deliberately obtuse.

Here is the restaurant in question. Does 300 baht look out of place for a meal there?



 

 

 

I didn't say that I have never heard of them. I said that I didn't really know what they were. I see them referenced in stories such as when poor students survive on ramen noodles, Th's why I wondered if they were something like Mama noodles.

 

The place, as well as the food that you show photos of does not appeal to me at all, so no, I would not pay 300 Baht for a bowl of noodles.

[Andrew65]

27 minutes ago, loong said:

 

I didn't say that I have never heard of them. I said that I didn't really know what they were. I see them referenced in stories such as when poor students survive on ramen noodles, Th's why I wondered if they were something like Mama noodles.

 

The place, as well as the food that you show photos of does not appeal to me at all, so no, I would not pay 300 Baht for a bowl of noodles.

Maggi brand noodles in S E Asia.