17 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

When you apply for extension the financial requirements are checked retrospectively. 

Non compliance will be obvious 

Thanks Dr.

My curiosity was  based on the information thrown out here and I trying to help a family friend living here with bad luck not having the funds currently any longer for his extension O. 

So now planning to use an agent this month until we figure thing out. He has had a Thai bank account for years but recently depleted due to medical reasons in the past I helped him obtain all the necessary docs to help him renewal.

So if I use an agent this year for him and on  down the road decide to go back doing it for him and have all the necessary funds in place for IO to examined that isn't possible he needs to leave the country come back and start over.

Thanks

 

 

9 minutes ago, thailand49 said:

So if I use an agent this year for him and on  down the road decide to go back doing it for him and have all the necessary funds in place for IO to examined that isn't possible he needs to leave the country come back and start over

He could after using an agent run financial compliance for 12 months including back to 2 months prior to last extension. That would avoid exiting Thailand. 

However suggest very few would do that. Better option would be to start over IMO. 

That can be done by border bounce and obtain Non O from visa exempt entry or obtain Non O in nearby country. 

FAIR: your friend is old and has some financial issues. 

Suggest he just continue ongoing with agent. 

17 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

He could after using an agent run financial compliance for 12 months including back to 2 months prior to last extension. That would avoid exiting Thailand. 

However suggest very few would do that. Better option would be to start over IMO. 

That can be done by border bounce and obtain Non O from visa exempt entry or obtain Non O in nearby country. 

FAIR: your friend is old and has some financial issues. 

Suggest he just continue ongoing with agent. 

Thanks a bunch,  actually the way it is going now I've fixed most of his financials I've been given full Power of Attorney and Health Directive, He was in real bad Physical and financial but I've been able to clean most of it up Detox him 90%, but the damage has been done to him physically which will take a bit longer than the detox. 

 

I've spent a lot of time helping him he being physically limited the agent works for him now since they were able to do his TM-30, 90 day report for a very small fee instead of me hauling him down to Immigration and having him sit and wait. I'm thinking if something happens to me the Caregivers understand how and where to go to help with his Immigration. I've been able to pay off all his taxes, and medical bills even been able to sock 60-80,000 baht a month last 4 into his Thai bank account and he still is able to live like a King or Prince without the drugs.

 

While I was doing all this another family member even myself, been doing the Extension myself for over 15 years, very easy with more than the necessary funds in the bank but me using a agent for him thinking maybe let them do it and that free up all my money in the bank if I do get sick here. 

 

From you answer, if one moves to an agent it is possible to go back to doing it yourself if one just comply with the legal funds required.

 

Thanks, Good day!

what actually happens when you use an agent for this?  Do they put 800,000 in a bank account which you can then show as in that account to immigration?  Is this 800,000 basically a loan and you are paying the agent interest on that in the way of a fee?  

 

  Along those lines, I don't see this 800k method as being that odd.  Nothing in the immigration wording really says what 800k you must put in an account or where it comes from.  Gosh it might be one's life savings, it might be a free loan from a friend, etc.

10 minutes ago, gk10012001 said:

what actually happens when you use an agent for this?  Do they put 800,000 in a bank account which you can then show as in that account to immigration?

 

They transfer the money to your account. 

Update the bank book, get a document from the bank etc.

You transfer the money back to them + fee.

 

They take the bank book etc to the IO. 

Just now, Packer said:

 

They transfer the money to your account. 

Update the bank book, get a document from the bank etc.

You transfer the money back to them + fee.

 

They take the bank book etc to the IO. 

oh so a short term thing.  But wouldn't that show the account is not seasoned enough going forward?  or do they keep it in the account enough to satisfy those 3 or 4 month rules or whatever they are?  Thanks

10 minutes ago, gk10012001 said:

oh so a short term thing.  But wouldn't that show the account is not seasoned enough going forward?  or do they keep it in the account enough to satisfy those 3 or 4 month rules or whatever they are?

Of course not.

Is this a wind up.

If using agent for extension retirement the 800k is deposited and withdrawn.

 

 

15 minutes ago, gk10012001 said:

wouldn't that show the account is not seasoned enough going forward?

 

'At the IO's discretion' 🙂

1 minute ago, DrJack54 said:

Of course not.

Is this a wind up.

If using agent for extension retirement the 800k is deposited and withdrawn.

 

 

what do you mean wind up?  

 

When is money withdrawn?  Doesn't one's account have to show monies in there for a certain amount of time?  Or do they just somehow skip over that and every year, say at the next renewal, they get around that again?

1 minute ago, Packer said:

 

'At the IO's discretion' 🙂

ah.  thank you

1 hour ago, Packer said:

 

'At the IO's discretion' 🙂

Nonsense.

If that were the case, then you wouldn't need an agent.

It's an immoral and illicit transaction of money - your money, to turn a blind eye to the laid down requirements.

 

Do you still believe in Santa Claus and fairies at the bottom of your garden as well!

9 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

It's an immoral and illicit transaction of money

 

Also known as "the Thai way"...

 

Pretty idiotic to use the term "immoral" in my opinion, as I don't think the local officialdom appreciates to be lectured about morality by random foreigners.

11 hours ago, Liquorice said:

Nonsense.

 

It most certainly isn't nonsense. The alien's extension of temporary stay application is done at the IO's discretion above anything else. Fact. 🙂

 

You're welcome. 🙂

 

 

11 hours ago, Liquorice said:

the laid down requirements.

 

In Thailand, immigration discretion refers to the authority of immigration officials to grant or deny entry, extend stays, and make decisions regarding visa status based on various factors. While specific requirements for each visa type are detailed, immigration officers ultimately have the power to exercise judgment in individual cases. 

 

 

Extension of Stay:

Extending a stay in Thailand is solely at the discretion of the immigration officer, and specific requirements may vary. 

 

In essence, while official requirements for visas and other immigration matters are clearly defined, the final decision-making power often rests with the immigration officer.

 

 

Please educate yourself before spewing nonsense. Thank you. :)

 

48 minutes ago, Packer said:

In Thailand, immigration discretion refers to the authority of immigration officials to grant or deny entry, extend stays, and make decisions regarding visa status based on various factors. While specific requirements for each visa type are detailed, immigration officers ultimately have the power to exercise judgment in individual cases. 

 

 

Extension of Stay:

Extending a stay in Thailand is solely at the discretion of the immigration officer, and specific requirements may vary. 

Incorrect assumption.

 

From official Immigration Orders;

In the case where an alien applicant does not meet the full qualifications stipulated by the criteria herein or in other cases not specified in this Order but a competent officer equivalent to or higher than inspector is of the opinion that the alien has legitimate reason for staying in the Kingdom of Thailand, the application shall be forwarded to the Commander of the Royal Thai Police or an authorized competent officer for further consideration of the alien's application.

This Order is effective as of 29 August 2014. Given on 30 June 2014,

Pol.Col. Acting Commissioner of the Royal Thai Police (signature)

(Watcharaphon Prasarnrajakit) Deputy Commissioner

 

It stands to reason that if an official has to hand it off to a supervisor when the applicant doesn't meet the criteria, and he has to hand it off to the Commander of the RTP for approval, but the Commander of the RTP can authorise a 'competent' official to approve it. That competent official would rank higher than a supervisor, otherwise the order would allow a supervisor to approve it in the first instance.

 

A supervisor doesn't even have the authority to approve an extension application based on Thai family that fully meets the criteria, yet you believe they can approve an extension based on retirement that doesn't meet the criteria.   

 

What do you think the circa 17,000 BHT agent fee is for, to copy your documents?

 

Try giving an IO a 'legitimate reason' as to why you don't meet the criteria, without using an agent, and I guarantee it won't even reach the ears of a supervisor.

 

 

12 hours ago, Caldera said:

 

Also known as "the Thai way"...

 

Pretty idiotic to use the term "immoral" in my opinion, as I don't think the local officialdom appreciates to be lectured about morality by random foreigners.

I would never use the word 'immoral' to lecture an IO ........... heavens above, they'd lose 'face' then.

Maneerat is encouraging people to open  different bank accounts i.e. not Bangkok Bank for retirement extension renewals

So basically the more of these you have the better when renewal time comes.I have 2 of them already but without the mobile app.Doubtless opening the third one (SCB) will involve expensive insurance.

7 minutes ago, chang50 said:

So basically the more of these you have the better when renewal time comes.I have 2 of them already but without the mobile app.Doubtless opening the third one (SCB) will involve expensive insurance.

Only one will be needed but makes sense to have several bank accounts opened, i have three

5 hours ago, Liquorice said:

Incorrect assumption.

 

not an assumption and not incorrect. 

 

Every extension is at the discretion of an IO, above everything else, whether that IO is the one dealing with the alien, their supervisor another.

 

That one, you don't understand that, and two, get angry about your misunderstanding speaks volumes about you. 😞  

4 hours ago, Packer said:

 

not an assumption and not incorrect. 

 

Every extension is at the discretion of an IO, above everything else, whether that IO is the one dealing with the alien, their supervisor another.

 

That one, you don't understand that, and two, get angry about your misunderstanding speaks volumes about you. 😞  

You're obviously speaking from first-hand experience where, without an agent, an IO has used his 'discretion' to approve your extension application when you didn't meet the full financial criteria - yes? If they did, then they were disobeying the orders I posted above.

The belief any IO can use their discretion in these circumstances is merely an excuse to try to justify your use of an agent when you don't meet the financial criteria.

12 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

You're obviously speaking from first-hand experience where, without an agent, an IO has used his 'discretion' to approve your extension application when you didn't meet the full financial criteria - yes? If they did, then they were disobeying the orders I posted above.

The belief any IO can use their discretion in these circumstances is merely an excuse to try to justify your use of an agent when you don't meet the financial criteria.

 

 

Of course they use their discretion.

 

That is why agents can only do retirement extensions - and not marriage based extensions which have to be sent up the line.

 

(NB: Not disputing the orders that you posted but that discretion is very wide ranging when words like 'competent official' are used.

1 hour ago, Liquorice said:

The belief any IO can use their discretion

 

That they use their discretion, above all other stated criteria, and this makes you absolutely furious is something you should really get mental health help with. 🙂 

3 hours ago, Packer said:

 

That they use their discretion, above all other stated criteria, and this makes you absolutely furious is something you should really get mental health help with. 🙂 

Just google 'Thai Immigration officers dismissed for corruption'.

I'm sure they were only using their discretionary powers.   

 

It's OK, until it's not OK.

11 hours ago, Liquorice said:

Just google 'Thai Immigration officers dismissed for corruption'.

I'm sure they were only using their discretionary powers.   

 

It's OK, until it's not OK.

 

That's just incredibly naive. If they were serious about corruption, they'd have to dismiss the entire police farce (including immigration) and start over. Even their internal processes are hopelessly corrupt, starting from passing the entrance exam. All that is well-documented, of course, so you're either having a laugh or being delusional.

 

So who gets caught and is punished for "being corrupt"? Officials who fail to pass the appropriate share of the loot up the chain. Officials who cross their superiors in other ways. Officials who have the wrong political affiliation. In all those cases, having some "corrupt officials" as fall guys to make an example of is perfect both with regards to the effect on the gullible public and as a deterrent for other officials. Nothing more, nothing less.

Just responding to Caldera and a few others:

 

We all know that there are certain Immo offices that bend the requirements in order to bill ex-pats for services that should be free (or not beyond the published fee).  I once lived in a province that required a 300 baht payment for a Certificate of Residence, even though the service is supposedly free according to the Immo national website.

 

I always do my extensions at Immo/CW, and they seem to have policies in place to prevent graft.

 

For example, they rotate the front-line and supervisory officers throughout the year which means that it would be very difficult to set up a kick-back network to overlook the 800K baht requirement for retirement extensions.

 

Plus, I have never observed any suspicious activity of some type of Thai agent jumping the queue and depositing passorts to be expedited and bypassing the required documentation,

 

But, how would I know for sure?  I don't. 

 

But, all I know is that, over decades of doing extensions for work/marriage/retirement, I have never been pressured by Immo/Bangkok to seek an agent or pay graft in order to get a routine, annual extension . 

 

To me, that says that corruption is not a way of life at Division 1.   YMMV

1 hour ago, TaoNow said:

To me, that says that corruption is not a way of life at Division 1.

Pretty naive post IMO. 

Agents can deal with CW to obtain extension retirement without the financials. No issue. 

Granted slightly more expensive than Pattaya. 

1 hour ago, TaoNow said:

I once lived in a province that required a 300 baht payment for a Certificate of Residence, even though the service is supposedly free according to the Immo national website

CW charges 200b for COR. 

Granted that includes postage. 

Process time approx 5 days. 

1 hour ago, TaoNow said:

For example, they rotate the front-line and supervisory officers throughout the year which means that it would be very difficult to set up a kick-back network to overlook the 800K baht requirement for retirement extensions.

I have had chit chat with same head io in extension desks for years. 

She sits at rear of L33

2 hours ago, Caldera said:

That's just incredibly naive. If they were serious about corruption, they'd have to dismiss the entire police farce (including immigration) and start over. Even their internal processes are hopelessly corrupt, starting from passing the entrance exam. All that is well-documented, of course, so you're either having a laugh or being delusional.

Don't kill the goose that lays the golden egg.

 

2 hours ago, Caldera said:

So who gets caught and is punished for "being corrupt"? Officials who fail to pass the appropriate share of the loot up the chain. Officials who cross their superiors in other ways. Officials who have the wrong political affiliation. In all those cases, having some "corrupt officials" as fall guys to make an example of is perfect both with regards to the effect on the gullible public and as a deterrent for other officials. Nothing more, nothing less.

Correct, those that get too greedy and caught with their fingers in the pie.

1 hour ago, TaoNow said:

For example, they rotate the front-line and supervisory officers throughout the year which means that it would be very difficult to set up a kick-back network to overlook the 800K baht requirement for retirement extensions.

Siam Legal opened a bank account for a friend who entered VE some years ago, then transferred 800K.

The following day they obtained a Non Imm O visa + 1 year extension + ME re-entry permit from CW all dated the same day ........... then billed him 52K.

 

Went up to Amnat Charoen to join his long time Thai girlfriend, filed a TM30, but they refused to accept his 90-day reports, telling him to go back to CW.
He did border hops every 90 days for the next year.

40 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

Siam Legal opened a bank account for a friend who entered VE some years ago, then transferred 800K.

Just advice for others... 

Siam Legal stopped offering open bank service in recent times. 

No idea why he bothered with border out/in.

2k max fine. Also why didn't agent deal with the 90 reporting.