Trouble sleeping, solutions?

[Kenny202]

Last year or so had quite a bit of trouble getting a full night sleep, 62yo. Usually go to bed around 10-11pm, religiously wake up around 4.30am around 5-6 hours sleep. I have no trouble initially getting to sleep, just when I wake up early morning no chance of getting back to sleep again. Sometimes I might only get 2-3 hours. I eat fairly healthy, don't do a great deal of exercise but not sitting on my a$$ all day either, busy 

 

Mostly I am fairly fresh during the day, if not might catch a 1 hour nap. It seems like I only really need this amount of sleep and maybe just overthinking it. I have tried a few different pills and can sleep but wake up and feel groggy and listless for the rest of the day, so it kind of negates the purpose / cure is worse than the symptoms. 

 

Can anyone suggest anything or is this normal for an older guy? 

[Harrisfan]

Magnesium helps. Darken room.

 

 

[proton]

4 minutes ago, Harrisfan said:

Magnesium helps. Darken room.

 

 

 

Magnesium glycinate, does help or melatonin

[Cameroni]

Quote

don't do a great deal of exercise

 

This is the first issue. If you embark on a very physical exercise program, and I do mean an intense one, where you ensure your body is physically tired, you will amost certainly sleep a lot better.

 

In addition you can use CBD oil, which helps with sleep for many people.

 

 

[Kenny202]

I tried a couple of different types of Canabis oils, didn't really help at all. I have no problem getting off to sleep initially, nor am I waking up intermittently. I need something will bring sleep for 7 or 8 hours. I have had days where I do a lot more exercise, swimming running atc and doesn't make a lot of difference. The sleep I have probably deeper but still only around 5-6 hours. Could it be, being older,...I only need 5 or so hours sleep a night?

[Sheryl]

Have you tried melatonon? A fast dissolve version, undre the tongue when you awaken too early.

 

Early morning wakening in older people is directly linked to low melatonin levels

 

many older people find that a daily nap (1-2 hours) is the answer, as it does get harder to sleep for long at a stretch as you age.

[Kenny202]

3 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Have you tried melatonon? A fast dissolve version, undre the tongue when you awaken too early.

 

Early morning wakening in older people is directly linked to low melatonin levels

 

many older people find that a daily nap (1-2 hours) is the answer, as it does get harder to sleep for long at a stretch as you age.

Do often have a nap in the day Sheryl, 1 or 2 hours but usually wake up a little rough and sorry I did lol. If its quite normal for older people to sleep less I will stop worrying about it. Most of the time I feel like Ive had enough sleep and not drowsy through the day. And if I do feel a bit tired I'll have a nap. I been on a fasting diet for 6 months and eating a lot healthier, lost a lot of weight and have a lot more energy. May have something to do with it 🙂

[ezzra]

Daily argument with the missus about money get me very tired and sleepy.

[BangkokReady]

Just some random ideas. 

 

Do you know what is waking you up?  Perhaps an effort to make sure you aren't woken in the first place could help.  Ear plugs, blackout blinds, etc.

 

Have you tried going to bed later?  Perhaps that might help.  Although if you're struggling to keep your eyes open at 10-11, that might be difficult.

 

Temperature?  Some need a nice cool room and to then feel warm under a blanket.

 

Also, you could try putting on a podcast or something when you wake up, as that might help you get back to sleep.

[Kenny202]

1 hour ago, BangkokReady said:

Just some random ideas. 

 

Do you know what is waking you up?  Perhaps an effort to make sure you aren't woken in the first place could help.  Ear plugs, blackout blinds, etc.

 

Have you tried going to bed later?  Perhaps that might help.  Although if you're struggling to keep your eyes open at 10-11, that might be difficult.

 

Temperature?  Some need a nice cool room and to then feel warm under a blanket.

 

Also, you could try putting on a podcast or something when you wake up, as that might help you get back to sleep.

Appreciate your help. Really I dont think anything is waking me up per se apart from my body clock. Room is dark and live in a very quiet estate. Air con on, nice comfy bed. And really going to bed an hour or 2 later to wake up an hour or 2 later is not really acheiving anything. Do appreciate you taking the time to help tho. Many thanks 🙏🙏

[mstevens]

Waking up around 4:30 AM and not being able to get back to sleep can be indicative of a few different things.

 

First of all, is there any chance you may be diabetic? If you are, uncontrolled diabetes can see blood sugar levels fluctuate. If blood sugar drops too much during the night, cortisol spikes to wake you up. This is essentially your body telling you that you need to eat something to raise blood sugar levels. To resolve this, you need to get diabetes under control.

 

Waking up around 4:00 AM is also associated with histamine intolerance. Histamine is involved in the waking up process, but if our body has issues with histamine (often due to any of a number of gastrointestinal issues) then we may have a degree of histamine intolerance which can wake us up a few hours early. This is an area where modern medicine is not entirely helpful as there are no specific lab tests for histamine intolerance. The way it's usually diagnosed is through an elimination diet - where high histamine foods are eliminated over a few weeks and you monitor symptoms for any changes. Histamine intolerance can get kind of complicated and to resolve it, you need to identify the root cause - which is often gut-related like dysbiosis, SIBO, Candida overgrowth etc. Best to Google histamine intolerance for more info. If you wish to seek medical assistance for histamine intolerance, you really need a functional medical doctor.

 

There are a number of supplements you might like to try:

 

Melatonin helps you to fall asleep, but not necessarily to stay asleep.

 

Magnesium Glycinate helps you to relax and can be very useful for sleep issues.

 

GABA is an inhibitory neurotransmitter which essentially calms the nervous system and helps sleep.

 

5HTP is an amino acid precursor used in the formation of Serotonin. If you suffer from anxiety or mild depression, this can help resolve that and improve sleep.

 

These are just a few thoughts and suggestions. As someone who had exactly the same issue of waking up at 4:00 AM, I have been through this myself!

 

[lamyai3]

14 hours ago, ezzra said:

Daily argument with the missus about money get me very tired and sleepy.

 

"I need ฿฿฿, mai mee dtung!" 

"I need a nap..."

[Zaphod Priest]

Diphenhydramine works really well.  Half  50 mg tablet of Codiphen shortly before bed has me sleeping through the night.  Phenz is also good, with each capsule containing 50 mg of the active ingredient.  It's faster acting and also seems (for me at least) to wear off sooner, despite the higher dose.

[FolkGuitar]

Perhaps you really don't need 7-8 hours of sleep.

If you are comfortable during the day, not sleepy or fatigued, and in good health otherwise, your body knows how much sleep it needs. 

When I was an older teen, I would sleep for 12-15 hours on the weekends. Now that I'm almost 80, I go to sleep around 11:30-12:00 and wake up with the sun; that's about 6.5 hours in summer and a bit longer in winter. I don't take any naps during the day, am quite physically active with sports and motorcycle riding every day.

Why do you think you must have 8 hours of sleep as an adult?

[hotandsticky]

5 minutes ago, FolkGuitar said:

 

When I was an older teen, I would sleep for 12-15 hours on the weekends.  

 

 

Yes, I remember those heavy Friday night sessions...

[thongplay]

15 minutes ago, FolkGuitar said:

Perhaps you really don't need 7-8 hours of sleep.

If you are comfortable during the day, not sleepy or fatigued, and in good health otherwise, your body knows how much sleep it needs. 

When I was an older teen, I would sleep for 12-15 hours on the weekends. Now that I'm almost 80, I go to sleep around 11:30-12:00 and wake up with the sun; that's about 6.5 hours in summer and a bit longer in winter. I don't take any naps during the day, am quite physically active with sports and motorcycle riding every day.

Why do you think you must have 8 hours of sleep as an adult?

Exactly. Both myself and my Thai wife have trouble sleeping. It's down to old age. I'm awake at 0300 and can barely stay in bed until 0400. Mrs Thai parents were the same.  I should say I have no problem falling asleep. Usually in bed at 2000. I'm older than you by a lot.

 

Those people and advocating medicines are out of touch with nature. Your body knows how much sleep you need. Absolutely no need for meds. (Opinion - I'm not a doctor, but I don't believe doctors know the answer either.)

[Kenny202]

2 hours ago, Zaphod Priest said:

Diphenhydramine works really well.  Half  50 mg tablet of Codiphen shortly before bed has me sleeping through the night.  Phenz is also good, with each capsule containing 50 mg of the active ingredient.  It's faster acting and also seems (for me at least) to wear off sooner, despite the higher dose.

Sounds good, are these available over the counter in Thailand?

 

I have tried Chloraphenarimine, little cheap, yellow allergy pills the Thais take to sleep and they are effective but I am always groggy the next day. Horrible feeling like you are only half functioning. Bout 50 baht bottle of 100 lol

[Zaphod Priest]

15 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

Sounds good, are these available over the counter in Thailand?

 

Yes.  Even very small pharmacies will probably have both brands.

[FolkGuitar]

2 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

Yes, I remember those heavy Friday night sessions...

Getting home just as the sun was coming up, sleeping all day, partying the next night, then trying to crawl to class on Monday. Good times!

[save the frogs]

I wouldn't take melatonin every night. 

I don't think it's healthy. I was taking it for a few weeks and I started feeling off. 

 

I haven't found any solutions for sleep. 

Except anything that will calm the nerves like chamomile tea before bed. 

But that might only help a little, and not everyone can't sleep due to anxiety. 

 

My guess is you are not working 9 to 5 like you used to, so your body simply isn't getting tired as much and you don't really need that much sleep. 

 

Some nights when I can't sleep, I usually nap during the day.

 

Exercise might help because it tires out the body and the body needs more recovery. Walking, and lifting weights. but those are major lifestyle changes ... 

 

Also, getting sunshine in the morning. Go out for a morning walk. When you expose your eyes to sunlight in the morning, it helps regulate the body's circadian rhythm. 

 

And go to bed at the same time every night. 

 

 

 

 

[3NUMBAS]

Breathing oxygen before bedtime seems to make me sleep  good ,I got a small canister off eBay for a small fee

[3NUMBAS]

https://www.google.com/search?q=diabetes sleep probs&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-m&sei=N6BnaIXIDcqYhbIPreKc4QY#:~:text=Diabetes can significantly,overall well-being. 

 

Diabetes can significantly impact sleep quality due to various factors like blood sugar fluctuations, sleep apnea, restless legs syndrome, and increased nighttime urination. These issues can lead to insomnia, frequent awakenings, and daytime fatigue. Addressing these sleep problems is crucial for managing diabetes effectively and improving overall well-being. 

[Kenny202]

23 hours ago, Zaphod Priest said:

Diphenhydramine works really well.  Half  50 mg tablet of Codiphen shortly before bed has me sleeping through the night.  Phenz is also good, with each capsule containing 50 mg of the active ingredient.  It's faster acting and also seems (for me at least) to wear off sooner, despite the higher dose.

Got a hold of some Codiphen yesterday. As you said very cheap (45 baht pk 10) and available. Took half last night and seems to have been very effective. Woke up fresh about 6am (intentionally) as I had a few things to do but could have happily rolled over and went back to sleep 🙂 Had a solid 8 hours. These things have a tendency to work initially well with me for a couple of nights then I get used to them so will see how I go. I am a creature of habit and will wake up everyday within minutes of the same time so even if they trick my body clock into an extra hour or two of sleep I will be happy 🙂 Best thing about them no groginess when I woke up as so many of these treatments do to me. Thanks again so much for the advice

[Tazmo]

I had and still have similar issues.

But as you can see from all the various comments, different things work for different people. Not even Identical twins are the same in every way!

 

So it’s finding what works best for you..

 

I tried antihistamines ( some gave me bad dreams); melatonin ; CBD Oil; Hemp tea ; sedatives.  But concluded that I was just being neurotic and not accepting growing older and needing less sleep!

 

My insomnia has been long standing from working night shifts over the years; plus I used to enjoy the nightlife, chicks and booze!

In addition I follow Sports on TV and with the time difference around the world, I sometimes get up early to watch games!

 

So I have learned with great difficulty to rehabilitate and eliminated all the old habits bar watching sports!

 

Go to bed when you feel sleepy; have a light dinner several hours before bed;

dark room, comfortable bed clothes and if you wake up then just learn to chill.

Avoid ruminating thoughts about past, present and future. I do this by playing card games on my IPad. Sometimes it makes me sleepy again and I go back to bed. Rest in bed even if not sleeping. Cut out daytime napping, find some activity to engage in.

 

It’s all in your own hands, take control and you’ll feel better for it. Don’t allow yourself to have to rely on unnecessary substances which may work psychologically, as you say, “ it works for a while “…then back to square one!

 

Unless of course if you have a medical condition that warrants treatment, but doesn’t sound like it. Good luck you are motivated to change that’s why you asked for help, but think through it all carefully!

 

[ujayujay]

I rarely go to bed before midnight. My dog wakes me up forcefully around 5 a.m., and I let him out to do his business in the bushes. Afterward, I can't sleep anymore, but I compensate with a 1-2 hour nap in the afternoon! Enough sleep for me.

[KannikaP]

On 7/3/2025 at 7:54 AM, Cameroni said:

 

This is the first issue. If you embark on a very physical exercise program, and I do mean an intense one, where you ensure your body is physically tired, you will amost certainly sleep a lot better.

 

In addition you can use CBD oil, which helps with sleep for many people.

 

 

Preferably containing some THC as well.

[Will B Good]

Physical exercise that is truly exhausting is the best solution all round. You'll sleep like a baby.

[Cameroni]

2 hours ago, Will B Good said:

Physical exercise that is truly exhausting is the best solution all round. You'll sleep like a baby.

 

100% correct.

[Hummin]

2 hours ago, Will B Good said:

Physical exercise that is truly exhausting is the best solution all round. You'll sleep like a baby.

You sleep good, and maybe better, but not necessarily longer. 

 

 

 

 

[Magictoad]

Melatonin has never worked for me. If I wake up early I treat it as a blessing; extra time to do creative stuff with.  This could include house cleaning or doing a photo montage,  or cooking for the following day.

If I wake up early, and I frequently do; I try to get on with things  and then, and only then I might drift off back to sleep. 

Insomnia is not a burden but a blessing.