Yes, Israel’s plan for Rafah would be a crime but international law has never protected Gaza

[bannork]

Over the past 21 long months of Israel’s genocidal  war on Gaza, voices all over the world have decried the demise of international law and the rule-based order.

 

And indeed, the facade of Israel’s adherence to international law has vanished and policies that constitute war crimes are now brazenly declared.

 

This week, Israel’s defence minister, Israel Katz, has shared plans to forcibly move Palestinians into a camp in the ruins of Rafah

 

Yes, Israel’s plan for Rafah would be a crime – but international law has never protected Gaza

 

 Once Gazans enter the camp, they cannot leave. 

 

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

42 minutes ago, bannork said:

Over the past 21 long months of Israel’s genocidal war on Gaza, voices all over the world have decried the demise of international law and the rule-based order.

 

And indeed, the facade of Israel’s adherence to international law has vanished and policies that constitute war crimes are now brazenly declared.

 

This week, Israel’s defence minister, Israel Katz, has shared plans to forcibly move Palestinians into a camp in the ruins of Rafah

 

Yes, Israel’s plan for Rafah would be a crime – but international law has never protected Gaza

 

 Once Gazans enter the camp, they cannot leave. 

 

 

Written by Palestinian lawyer and human rights activist Raja Shehadeh, couldn't have done better if Hamas had written a piece....oh and the war is against Hamas not Gaza. An opinion piece littered with false claims.

[Chomper Higgot]

Yet more obscenity and of course always excuses, obfuscation and attacking those who bring this to our attention.

 

Well it turns out we have another source for news of this obscene plan:

 

“Israel Katz said he has ordered Israel’s military to prepare for establishing a camp, which he called a “humanitarian city”, on the ruins of the city of Rafah, Haaretz newspaper reported.”

 

”Humanitarian City” has a perverse ring to it, perhaps the Israelis could knock up an iron sign bearing the inscription “Humanitarian City”, mount it over the gate where Palestinians will enter, be screened and once inside not allowed to leave.

“Palestinians would go through “security screening” before entering, and once inside would not be allowed to leave, Katz said at a briefing for Israeli journalists.”

 

Let’s never hear this again:

 

”If only we had known what was happening”.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/07/israeli-minister-reveals-plan-to-force-population-of-gaza-into-camp-on-ruins-of-rafah

[Bkk Brian]

24 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Yet more obscenity and of course always excuses, obfuscation and attacking those who bring this to our attention.

 

Well it turns out we have another source for news of this obscene plan:

 

“Israel Katz said he has ordered Israel’s military to prepare for establishing a camp, which he called a “humanitarian city”, on the ruins of the city of Rafah, Haaretz newspaper reported.”

 

”Humanitarian City” has a perverse ring to it, perhaps the Israelis could knock up an iron sign bearing the inscription “Humanitarian City”, mount it over the gate where Palestinians will enter, be screened and once inside not allowed to leave.

“Palestinians would go through “security screening” before entering, and once inside would not be allowed to leave, Katz said at a briefing for Israeli journalists.”

 

Let’s never hear this again:

 

”If only we had known what was happening”.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/07/israeli-minister-reveals-plan-to-force-population-of-gaza-into-camp-on-ruins-of-rafah

What obscenity? So all the claims made in that OP opinion piece are correct then? Did you actually read it?

 

As mentioned littered with misinformation and false claims.

 

As for the Humanitarian Zone plans thats widely reported everywhere since it was first announced 5 days ago, try a direct source without the spin you may learn something.

 

Proposal outlines massive camps for Gazans in bid to advance Trump’s ‘vision’ – report

The plan, reviewed by Reuters, describes the camps as “large-scale” and “voluntary” places where the Gazan population could “temporarily reside, deradicalize, re-integrate, and prepare to relocate if they wish to do so.”

The Washington Post made a reference to the GHF’s plans to build housing compounds for Palestinian noncombatants in May.

A slide deck seen by Reuters goes into granular detail on the “Humanitarian Transit Zones,” including how they would be implemented and what they would cost.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/aid-group-planned-massive-camps-for-gazans-in-bid-to-advance-trumps-vision-report/

 

The director general of the Defense Ministry, Amir Baram, has already begun advancing planning for the zone, which Katz stressed will not be run by the IDF, but rather by international bodies.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/katz-calls-for-confining-all-gazans-in-humanitarian-city-built-over-rafahs-ruins/

 

[bannork]

Since the start of the war in Gaza in October 2023, 29-year-old Mustafa Daoud has been displaced nine times, forced to flee Israeli bombs that razed his neighbourhood north of Gaza City to the ground.

 

For the past several months, he has sheltered along with hundreds of thousands of others in al-Mawasi on the edge of the southern city of Khan Younis. I

 

n a phone call he told how his life has become about endless queues: hours to get water waiting in the baking sun, or for the chance to use a clay oven to bake a tiny amount of bread so his family can eat a single meal.

 

Live in confinement, or leave for ever: Israel’s grim offer to terrified Gazans

 

 

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, bannork said:

Since the start of the war in Gaza in October 2023, 29-year-old Mustafa Daoud has been displaced nine times, forced to flee Israeli bombs that razed his neighbourhood north of Gaza City to the ground.

 

For the past several months, he has sheltered along with hundreds of thousands of others in al-Mawasi on the edge of the southern city of Khan Younis. I

 

n a phone call he told how his life has become about endless queues: hours to get water waiting in the baking sun, or for the chance to use a clay oven to bake a tiny amount of bread so his family can eat a single meal.

 

Live in confinement, or leave for ever: Israel’s grim offer to terrified Gazans

 

 

What makes you think they want to stay?

 

Almost half of Gazans willing to leave, survey finds

Almost half of Gazans may be willing to apply to Israel to help them leave to other countries, according to a survey on Tuesday that also showed significant support for anti-Hamas protests.
The survey by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research was based on polling of people across the Gaza Strip and in the occupied West Bank between May 1-4, some six weeks after Israeli forces resumed operations in Gaza following the breakdown of a brief ceasefire.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/almost-half-gazans-willing-leave-survey-finds-2025-05-06/

https://archive.ph/8sByG

[Nick Carter icp]

On 7/12/2025 at 10:52 AM, Chomper Higgot said:

”Humanitarian City” has a perverse ring to it, perhaps the Israelis could knock up an iron sign bearing the inscription “Humanitarian City”, mount it over the gate where Palestinians will enter, be screened and once inside not allowed to leave.

 

   If the Palestinians  wanted to leave Gaza to emigrate to say Rwanda , every party  was in full agreement with it . 

   Would you/the pro Palestinians support that move ?

[Social Media]

Off topic inflammatory posts claiming genocide is being committed have been removed. Please discuss the topic which is about the alleged "Humanitarian Centers"

 

There are multiple topics on that term already, here are just a few:

 

Ireland’s Move at the ICJ Redefining The Meaning of Genocide to get a Conviction

Provisional Decision Today: ICJ Weighs Emergency Measures Amid Allegations of Genocide in Gaza

Israel shows ‘chilling’ intent to commit genocide in Gaza, South Africa tells UN court

 

 

[Somjot]

7 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

What makes you think they want to stay?

 

Almost half of Gazans willing to leave, survey finds

Almost half of Gazans may be willing to apply to Israel to help them leave to other countries, according to a survey on Tuesday that also showed significant support for anti-Hamas protests.
The survey by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research was based on polling of people across the Gaza Strip and in the occupied West Bank between May 1-4, some six weeks after Israeli forces resumed operations in Gaza following the breakdown of a brief ceasefire.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/almost-half-gazans-willing-leave-survey-finds-2025-05-06/

https://archive.ph/8sByG

What I don't understand is, that Center is based in Ramallah, which is in the Westbank and their data collectors are instructed not to enter areas of combat.

How did they get reliable information from Gaza? I mean nobody gets out or in.

And what perfidious method do you use to differentiate between reliable information and lies from Palestinians?

According to you, every information coming out from Gaza is untrue as Gaza is Hamas controlled, and Hamas are all liars.

How do you know this is not from Hamas?

 

[Patong2021]

10 hours ago, bannork said:

Since the start of the war in Gaza in October 2023, 29-year-old Mustafa Daoud has been displaced nine times, forced to flee Israeli bombs that razed his neighbourhood north of Gaza City to the ground.

 

For the past several months, he has sheltered along with hundreds of thousands of others in al-Mawasi on the edge of the southern city of Khan Younis. I

 

n a phone call he told how his life has become about endless queues: hours to get water waiting in the baking sun, or for the chance to use a clay oven to bake a tiny amount of bread so his family can eat a single meal.

 

Live in confinement, or leave for ever: Israel’s grim offer to terrified Gazans

 

 

Boo hoo. In the years prior to  Mr.  Mustafa's hardship, no mention is made of the daily barrage of missiles and rockets that came from Gaza that displaced tens of thousands of Israelis. You intentionally ignore that long before the October attack by Gaza, Gaza was trying to kill Israelis on a daily basis. What did you expect would happen.

 

And as we now see, the    large amounts of aid and  goods that flowed into Gaza were diverted to build  military tunnels, military bunkers, military  munitions and weapons. Gaza is a  military base with residences for militant family members trying to conceal itself as  a civilian enclave.

[bannork]

22 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

 

Boo hoo. In the years prior to  Mr.  Mustafa's hardship, no mention is made of the daily barrage of missiles and rockets that came from Gaza that displaced tens of thousands of Israelis. You intentionally ignore that long before the October attack by Gaza, Gaza was trying to kill Israelis on a daily basis. What did you expect would happen.

 

And as we now see, the    large amounts of aid and  goods that flowed into Gaza were diverted to build  military tunnels, military bunkers, military  munitions and weapons. Gaza is a  military base with residences for militant family members trying to conceal itself as  a civilian enclave.

Hamas was trying to kill Israelis,  Hamas doesn't include every Gazan citizen.

 

[freedomnow]

On 7/12/2025 at 9:04 AM, Bkk Brian said:

oh and the war is against Hamas not Gaza

Haha, more like shooting fish in a barrel..they are not too sharp shooting at what, 55k dead civilians with 60% or something being women and kids but as you say "its a war against Hamas"...more like genocide in real-time to send a message to every other Muslim nation in the region.

[Nick Carter icp]

Just now, freedomnow said:

, 55k dead civilians 

 

   Untrue 

Incudes 25 000 Hamas who are not civilians 

[Chomper Higgot]

4 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Untrue 

Incudes 25 000 Hamas who are not civilians 

Do you have a credible link to the 25,000 Hamas number you have stated?

[Chomper Higgot]

The criticism of this plan is also coming from within Israel:
 

“‘Humanitarian city’ would be concentration camp for Palestinians, says former Israeli PM

 

Ehud Olmert says forcing people into camp would be ethnic cleansing, and anger at Israel over Gaza war is not all down to antisemitism”

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/13/israel-humanitarian-city-rafah-gaza-camp-ehud-olmert

[newbee2022]

11 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Untrue 

Incudes 25 000 Hamas who are not civilians 

how stupid !!!

How you found out? They came with a sticker "I'm a Hamas fighter" ???

[Nick Carter icp]

8 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Do you have a credible link to the 25,000 Hamas number you have stated?

 

   Just has a look and it was 17-20 000 Hamas been killed .

My point was that it wasn't 55 000 civilians been killed .

BTW : 

If the Palestinians  wanted to leave Gaza to emigrate to say Rwanda , and every party  was in full agreement with it . 

   Would you/the pro Palestinians support that move ?

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Just has a look and it was 17-20 000 Hamas been killed .

My point was that it wasn't 55 000 civilians been killed .

BTW : 

If the Palestinians  wanted to leave Gaza to emigrate to say Rwanda , and every party  was in full agreement with it . 

   Would you/the pro Palestinians support that move ?

Please provide a credible link to your revised 17200 number.

[Nick Carter icp]

14 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Please provide a credible link to your revised 17200 number.

 

  OKAY

Google search *17 000 Hamas killed*

Press enter 

Results 

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=17+000+Hamas+been+killed+.&sca_esv=dc14eecb5d35f592&sxsrf=AE3TifOMX2UxWQ1MThEzbAI_EOxdzcWfig%3A1752484971700&ei=a8x0aJnGKtWXhbIP8_vduAs&ved=0ahUKEwjZp9mhg7yOAxXVS0EAHfN9F7cQ4dUDCBA&oq=17+000+Hamas+been+killed+.&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiGjE3IDAwMCBIYW1hcyBiZWVuIGtpbGxlZCAuMggQABiABBiiBDIIEAAYgAQYogQyBRAAGO8FMggQABiABBiiBEjOTlChN1ihN3AEeACQAQCYAVugAVuqAQExuAEMyAEA-AEBmAIBoAJjmAMAiAYBkgcBMaAHugKyBwExuAdjwgcDMi0xyAcG&sclient=gws-wiz-serp

 

 Before the 7 October attacks, Hamas was estimated to have about 30,000 fighters, but Israel said in August that its forces had killed more than 17,000 of them. 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67039975#:~:text=Before the 7 October attacks,can't be independently verified.

 

[Nick Carter icp]

1 hour ago, newbee2022 said:

how stupid !!!

How you found out? They came with a sticker "I'm a Hamas fighter" ???

 

   Didn't you say that you wouldn't respond to me anymore ?

[Stocky]

Worth noting that former Israel prime minister Ehud Olmert called Defense Minister Israel Katz's "humanitarian city" plan in Gaza a "concentration camp".  No doubt die hard Zionist will say he's being anti-Semitic.

 

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-860946

[newbee2022]

12 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Didn't you say that you wouldn't respond to me anymore ?

yes, true. But if a comment is too stupid I have to.

[Nick Carter icp]

2 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

yes, true. But if a comment is too stupid I have to.

 

   I never tell people that I will be blocking them , as I would feel stupid replying to them a few days later .

[Nick Carter icp]

30 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

yes, true. But if a comment is too stupid I have to.

 

  As Chomper isn't answering , I will ask you :

 

If the Palestinians  wanted to leave Gaza to emigrate to say Rwanda , and every party  was in full agreement with it . 

   Would you/the pro Palestinians support that move ?

[newbee2022]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Please provide a credible link to your revised 17200 number.

I think 17000 might be ok, if you trust Israel, what I don't. In total Israel killed 58.000 people (44% children, 26% women, 9% old people.)

It's a genocidal war against all International Laws, but still some people alive.

[Nick Carter icp]

2 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

I think 17000 might be ok, if you trust Israel, what I don't. In total Israel killed 58.000 people (44% children, 26% women, 9% old people.)

It's a genocidal war against all International Laws, but still some people alive.

 

   Civilians die in all wars .

Fewer Palestinian civilians  have died in this war than what normally die in other wars .

   The normal civilian casualty rate in wars is about 90 % .

In the Gaza war its about 70 %

Its less civilian casualties in the Gaza war .

Israel are doing well to keep the civilian casualties to the low figure 

[Mavideol]

14 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Untrue 

Incudes 25 000 Hamas who are not civilians 

and u got that number from where, sure it must be a reliable source, is it??, I pretty much doubt

[bannork]

9 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

 

The criticism of this plan is also coming from within Israel:
 

“‘Humanitarian city’ would be concentration camp for Palestinians, says former Israeli PM

 

Ehud Olmert says forcing people into camp would be ethnic cleansing, and anger at Israel over Gaza war is not all down to antisemitism”

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/13/israel-humanitarian-city-rafah-gaza-camp-ehud-olmert

 

Mr Olmert stated that the proposal, briefed by Israel's defence minister, would trap two million displaced Palestinians, with no permission to leave, and is intended for deportation rather than protection.

 

He now believes Israel is committing war crimes in Gaza and the West Bank, attributing these actions to negligence and a disregard for civilian casualties.

 

‘Humanitarian city’ in Gaza actually ethnic cleansing, former Israeli PM says

[Patong2021]

20 hours ago, bannork said:

Hamas was trying to kill Israelis,  Hamas doesn't include every Gazan citizen.

 

 

True, Hamas does not include every Gazan. However, the likelihood of a Gazan being allied or part of one of the other  militant groups is rather high;

 - Al-Quds Brigades: Palestinian Islamic Jihad 

 - Abu Ali Mustafa Brigades: Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)

 - National Resistance Brigades: Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (DFLP)

 - Al-Nasser Salah al-Deen Brigades: Popular Resistance Committees (PRC)

 -  Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades 

 - Mujahideen Brigades

 - Al-Ansar Brigades 

 - Jihad Jibril Brigades: (Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine – General Command (PFLP-GC)

 

Some of the Israeli hostages were held in the basements of hospitals, while others were kept in residential buildings, by "civilians".

https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/19/middleeast/gaza-neighborhood-israeli-hostages-intl-cmd

As detailed in the CNN  report, pious and respectable civilians  held some of the captives deep in "residential" neighborhoods. When a fiend like Ahmed Aljamal, a physician, who also led the call to prayer at the local mosque, and his family who had kept hostages are  killed or injured , they are reported as innocent civilians, or as a dedicated physician, not as vile captors. When Abdallah Aljamal, a journalist associated with the US-based Palestine Chronicle,  is injured when hostages are liberated from his home, he is described as a innocent journalist attacked by the IDF.   You  will never acknowledge that hundreds  if not thousands of the   so called "innocents" were in fact irregular  fighters or deeply integrated into the Gaza war machine. And even when they are not, they are tacit  participants, assisting in logistics and supply, information and support, or just used as intentional human shields by their militant families.  Gaza is at war with Israel. Gaza is Israel's enemy. There are some Gazans who are aligned with  different clans and  Fatah who are opposed  to Hamas and friends. They are not being killed by  Israel, but by Hamas. Hamas slaughtered hundreds of Fatah supporters and blamed it on Israel.

[bannork]

7 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

 

True, Hamas does not include every Gazan. However, the likelihood of a Gazan being allied or part of one of the other  militant groups is rather high;

 - Al-Quds Brigades: Palestinian Islamic Jihad 

 - Abu Ali Mustafa Brigades: Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)

 - National Resistance Brigades: Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (DFLP)

 - Al-Nasser Salah al-Deen Brigades: Popular Resistance Committees (PRC)

 -  Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades 

 - Mujahideen Brigades

 - Al-Ansar Brigades 

 - Jihad Jibril Brigades: (Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine – General Command (PFLP-GC)

 

Some of the Israeli hostages were held in the basements of hospitals, while others were kept in residential buildings, by "civilians".

https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/19/middleeast/gaza-neighborhood-israeli-hostages-intl-cmd

As detailed in the CNN  report, pious and respectable civilians  held some of the captives deep in "residential" neighborhoods. When a fiend like Ahmed Aljamal, a physician, who also led the call to prayer at the local mosque, and his family who had kept hostages are  killed or injured , they are reported as innocent civilians, or as a dedicated physician, not as vile captors. When Abdallah Aljamal, a journalist associated with the US-based Palestine Chronicle,  is injured when hostages are liberated from his home, he is described as a innocent journalist attacked by the IDF.   You  will never acknowledge that hundreds  if not thousands of the   so called "innocents" were in fact irregular  fighters or deeply integrated into the Gaza war machine. And even when they are not, they are tacit  participants, assisting in logistics and supply, information and support, or just used as intentional human shields by their militant families.  Gaza is at war with Israel. Gaza is Israel's enemy. There are some Gazans who are aligned with  different clans and  Fatah who are opposed  to Hamas and friends. They are not being killed by  Israel, but by Hamas. Hamas slaughtered hundreds of Fatah supporters and blamed it on Israel.

According to the BBC:

 

The UN's Human Rights Office has condemned the high number of civilians killed in the war in Gaza, saying its analysis shows close to 70% of verified victims over a six-month period were women and children.

 

The agency said the high number was largely due to Israel's use of weapons with wide-area effects in densely populated areas, although some deaths may have been the result of errant projectiles by Palestinian armed groups.

 

The report said it found "unprecedented" levels of international law violations, raising concerns about "war crimes and other possible atrocity crimes".

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn5wel11pgdo

 

 One of the main principles of International Humanitarian Law is the rule of distinction. 'Distinction' demands that belligerents and fighters at all times distinguish between civilians and civilian objects on one hand, and combatants and military objectives on the other hand, so as to protect persons not taking part in the conflict.

Regarding an acceptable rate of casualties, I saw a recent interview with an Israeli ambassador who insisted a kill ration of one combatant to one innocent citizen was an acceptable international ratio.

However, the sheer amount of children, women and no doubt some innocent male civilian , killed by Israel in Gaza, clearly demonstrates Israel is not adhering to international law.