1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

this current war of Putin's genocidal attempt to erase Ukraine

 

All they had to do was implement Minsk as promised, or not back out of the Istanbul agreements, in which case Ukraine (minus Crimea) would have remained whole.

 

 

3 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

All they had to do was implement Minsk as promised, or not back out of the Istanbul agreements, in which case Ukraine (minus Crimea) would have remained whole.

 

 

In the context of the Russo-Ukrainian conflict, seeking peace with your much larger neighboour is far preferable to heeding the weaselly advice of distant, unreliable allies who pursue their own geopolitical agendas, rather than the interests of an honorable friend who truly cares about your sovereignty and here we are a nation in the east destroyed and living on econimic life-support. 

 

On 8/28/2025 at 3:55 PM, t0mt0m said:

Ukraine admits Russia has entered key region of Dnipropetrovsk

 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c17n1p24yv9o

See - The Ukrainians are chasing the Russians back to the Urals.  They're losing for sure.

6 minutes ago, connda said:

See - The Ukrainians are chasing the Russians back to the Urals.  They're losing for sure.

It's a 100k Russian troops. 

 

https://www.kyivpost.com/post/59438

1 hour ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

All they had to do was implement Minsk as promised, or not back out of the Istanbul agreements, in which case Ukraine (minus Crimea) would have remained whole.

 

 

That's a lie.

2 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

All they had to do was implement Minsk as promised, or not back out of the Istanbul agreements, in which case Ukraine (minus Crimea) would have remained whole.

 

 

I feel like you're making up your own version of history. 

 

There are two Minsk Agreements, not just one. The first “Minsk Protocol” was signed on September 5, 2014. It mainly consists of a commitment to a ceasefire along the existing line of contact, which Russia never respected. By February 2015, fighting had intensified to a level that led to renewed calls for a ceasefire, and ultimately led to the second Minsk Agreement, signed on February 12, 2015. Even after this agreement, Russian-led forces kept fighting and took the town of Debaltseve six days later.

 

https://cepa.org/article/dont-let-russia-fool-you-about-the-minsk-agreements/

 

Contrary to Russian narratives, no official agreement was signed in Istanbul between Ukrainian and Russian delegations in 2022. However, documents obtained by Welt am Sonntag shed light on the diplomatic efforts that took place during the negotiations.

 

https://eutoday.net/agreement-that-never-was-istanbul-agreements/

10 minutes ago, Mike_Hunt said:

I feel like you're making up your own version of history. 

 

There are two Minsk Agreements, not just one. The first “Minsk Protocol” was signed on September 5, 2014. It mainly consists of a commitment to a ceasefire along the existing line of contact, which Russia never respected. By February 2015, fighting had intensified to a level that led to renewed calls for a ceasefire, and ultimately led to the second Minsk Agreement, signed on February 12, 2015. Even after this agreement, Russian-led forces kept fighting and took the town of Debaltseve six days later.

 

https://cepa.org/article/dont-let-russia-fool-you-about-the-minsk-agreements/

 

Contrary to Russian narratives, no official agreement was signed in Istanbul between Ukrainian and Russian delegations in 2022. However, documents obtained by Welt am Sonntag shed light on the diplomatic efforts that took place during the negotiations.

 

https://eutoday.net/agreement-that-never-was-istanbul-agreements/

 

It’s fair to imagine that if there had been genuine good faith on both sides, and if Western powers had been more willing to step back from what is fundamentally a Slavic and regional dispute, we might today be living under a fragile but workable peace. The Minsk Agreements showed that there was at least a framework on the table , messy, imperfect, but a potential stepping stone to something more stable. Instead, both sides saw them as tools to buy time rather than as commitments to end the war.

 

Had Moscow genuinely respected the ceasefire lines and Kyiv pursued autonomy provisions with less pressure from nationalist factions, and had Washington and Brussels refrained from constantly framing the conflict through a broader East–West struggle, it’s conceivable that a flawed but enduring settlement could have emerged. It wouldn’t have been a clean peace more likely a frozen, uneasy arrangement but still preferable to the devastation and escalation that followed.

 

In short, without outside competition overlaying the conflict and with both parties negotiating honestly, Ukraine and Russia might have found a difficult but survivable equilibrium messy, yes, but still peace.Don’t poke the Russian bear’ isn’t just a cliché - it’s rooted in hard, cold realpolitik, not lofty values that neither country ever truly subscribed to.

3 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

 

what is fundamentally a Slavic and regional dispute

 

No its not. Its a war between two sovereign powers. Russia takes the view that Ukraine is not a real country. You denigrate Ukraine's right to exist by dismissing the war as a "Slavic dispute". Zelensky isn't even a Slav. Ukraine isn't a monolith of Slavic people. Neither is Russia. Russia is 80% Slavic, but non-Slavs are at least 30% of Russian casualties, perhaps even 40%.

 

Lord Halifax on the Sudentenland

 

Quote

Germany seeks only what was unjustly taken from her by the Treaty of Versailles

 

Chamberlain in the same issue

 

Quote

The Germans in Czechoslovakia have grievances which it is only reasonable to consider

 

Mosley

 

Quote

The reunion of Austria with Germany is the right of Germans everywhere to live in one nation.

 

On Poland, Oswald Mosley argued that Poland was corrupt, oppressive to minorities, and not worth a European war.

 

Acoss the Atlantic;

 

Lindbergh

 

Quote

These wars in Europe are not wars in which our civilization is defending itself against some Asiatic intruder.........This is simply one more of those age-old struggles within our own family of nations— a quarrel arising from the errors of the last war

 

 

 

 

Sound familiar? The same arguments, played out by people mostly sympathetic to Mosley's policies and beliefs. Your lot are using the same arguments 85 years on, for the same purpose.

 

8 hours ago, Jingthing said:

That's a lie.

 

According to the global daily mail express.

 

Sure, buddy.

 

And Putin died of cancer December 2022, three times.

6 hours ago, MicroB said:

 

No its not. Its a war between two sovereign powers. Russia takes the view that Ukraine is not a real country. You denigrate Ukraine's right to exist by dismissing the war as a "Slavic dispute". Zelensky isn't even a Slav. Ukraine isn't a monolith of Slavic people. Neither is Russia. Russia is 80% Slavic, but non-Slavs are at least 30% of Russian casualties, perhaps even 40%.

 

Lord Halifax on the Sudentenland

 

 

Chamberlain in the same issue

 

 

Mosley

 

 

On Poland, Oswald Mosley argued that Poland was corrupt, oppressive to minorities, and not worth a European war.

 

Acoss the Atlantic;

 

Lindbergh

 

 

 

 

 

Sound familiar? The same arguments, played out by people mostly sympathetic to Mosley's policies and beliefs. Your lot are using the same arguments 85 years on, for the same purpose.

 

You are making a false dichotomy by equating Western appeasement of the Nazis with the current Russia–Ukraine conflict. Let us not forget: Britain lost its empire and much of its wealth in the aftermath of that war, paving the way for the inexorable rise of the United States. Victory against Hitler was possible only through an alliance with Stalin and the Soviet Union“the devil” in your view which led directly to the subjugation of Eastern Europe. And we must also remember that many Ukrainians and others in Eastern Europe disgraced themselves by collaborating with the Nazis, driven by their bitter hatred of the USSR.

 

And in the present day, China plays the role once occupied by the United States: the rising hegemon, while the US and Europe resemble the declining empires of the past. This war is forging powerful new alliances, making the prospect of a wider global conflict far more probable than the messy, imperfect peace that ought to have been brokered and left to settle many years ago. Every war leads the seeds of the next and Versailles and the improverishment of Germany did indeed lead to the rise of Hitler and Nazi Germany. I suspect you and your fellow ARSSE fellas in WW1 would be cheering on the war and "hammering the Hun" - whilst I would be on the side of the Internationale and uniting the workers against their oppressive masters and cheering on the Bolsheviks and the end to the Russians in the war and probably getting shot as a result.  

2 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

According to the global daily mail express.

 

Sure, buddy.

 

And Putin died of cancer December 2022, three times.

We have been bombarded with disingenuous narratives designed to rally the masses behind a war in which most people have little genuine interest. If they truly understood the cost far greater than the so-called “boats” their support would evaporate. Yet the conflict continues to unravel, serving as a stage on which a declining Europe, and now the United States, can still flex as self-appointed global policemen under the banner of “international law.” (Though, of course, not when it comes to Israel no, no siree !)

 

It’s almost as if Protestant paramilitaries in the Six Counties had been haranguing the nationalist minority and attacking the Republic, and at some point Britain decided to start funding arms for the UDF and its cohorts. I wouldn’t expect the Republic to remain impassive if that were the case and neither should anyone else.

 

Don't troll the bear in his own backyard it's that simple. 

 

 

24 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

We have been bombarded with disingenuous narratives designed to rally the masses behind a war in which most people have little genuine interest. If they truly understood the cost far greater than the so-called “boats” their support would evaporate. Yet the conflict continues to unravel, serving as a stage on which a declining Europe, and now the United States, can still flex as self-appointed global policemen under the banner of “international law.” (Though, of course, not when it comes to Israel no, no siree !)

 

It’s almost as if Protestant paramilitaries in the Six Counties had been haranguing the nationalist minority and attacking the Republic, and at some point Britain decided to start funding arms for the UDF and its cohorts. I wouldn’t expect the Republic to remain impassive if that were the case and neither should anyone else.

 

Don't troll the bear in his own backyard it's that simple. 

 

 

So just let Russia run over Ukraine? Just let Russia create millions of new refugees weakening Europe even more? Just let Russian Russify everything about Ukrainian society, install a puppet government, and murder and/or push out all that won't go along with that.
I find your rhetoric DISGUSTING.

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

So just let Russia run over Ukraine? Just let Russia create millions of new refugees weakening Europe even more? Just let Russian Russify everything about Ukrainian society, install a puppet government, and murder and/or push out all that won't go along with that.
I find your rhetoric DISGUSTING.

We have millions of refugees already and about 60+% never want to go back. We are broke,bust and yet we throw more petrol on the fire. Calm down dear , calm down. 

 

Here’s a clear breakdown of the UK’s support for Ukraine, its financial commitment, and the current number of Ukrainian refugees in the UK:

---

🇬🇧 UK Support to Ukraine

Total UK Support (as of July 2025):

• Military Assistance: £13.06 billion

  • Includes £10.8 billion in direct military aid (such as weapons, training, and equipment).

  • £2.26 billion loan under the G7 Extraordinary Revenue Loans (ERA) scheme, to be repaid from frozen Russian assets. £1.5 billion of this loan has been released so far. (House of Commons Library)

• Non-Military Support: Up to £5.3 billion

  • Includes humanitarian aid, reconstruction support, and fiscal guarantees. (GOV.UK)

Total UK Support to Date: Approximately £18.3 billion (House of Commons Library)

---

💰 Total Cost of the War to the UK

The total cost of the war to the UK includes direct financial support to Ukraine and the replacement cost of donated military equipment:

• Direct Financial Support: £18.3 billion (as detailed above).

• Replacement Cost of Donated Military Equipment: £2.71 billion (The Guardian)

Estimated Total Cost: Approximately £21 billion

---

🏠 Ukrainian Refugees in the UK

As of June 2025:

• Number of Ukrainian Refugees in the UK: Approximately 227,000 (House of Commons Library)

This figure includes individuals who have arrived under the UK's bespoke visa schemes for Ukrainians.

---

 

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

install a puppet government, and murder and/or push out all that won't go along with that.

 

That's called projection, dear.

 

We overthrowed the legitimatly elected Ukrainian government.  

We armed and trained genuine nazis.

We supported the attempted ethnic cleansing of the Donbass region.

We FAFO'd.

33 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

That's called projection, dear.

 

We overthrowed the legitimatly elected Ukrainian government.  

We armed and trained genuine nazis.

We supported the attempted ethnic cleansing of the Donbass region.

We FAFO'd.

Kremlin talking points garbage.

Look what the genocidal barbaric orcs did to Mariopol.

13 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

 

It’s fair to imagine that if there had been genuine good faith on both sides, and if Western powers had been more willing to step back from what is fundamentally a Slavic and regional dispute, we might today be living under a fragile but workable peace. The Minsk Agreements showed that there was at least a framework on the table , messy, imperfect, but a potential stepping stone to something more stable. Instead, both sides saw them as tools to buy time rather than as commitments to end the war.

 

Had Moscow genuinely respected the ceasefire lines and Kyiv pursued autonomy provisions with less pressure from nationalist factions, and had Washington and Brussels refrained from constantly framing the conflict through a broader East–West struggle, it’s conceivable that a flawed but enduring settlement could have emerged. It wouldn’t have been a clean peace more likely a frozen, uneasy arrangement but still preferable to the devastation and escalation that followed.

 

In short, without outside competition overlaying the conflict and with both parties negotiating honestly, Ukraine and Russia might have found a difficult but survivable equilibrium messy, yes, but still peace.Don’t poke the Russian bear’ isn’t just a cliché - it’s rooted in hard, cold realpolitik, not lofty values that neither country ever truly subscribed to.

You are mistaken. Ukraine is an independent nation. Putin seeks to turn Ukraine into a vassal state, which is why he invaded. Honest negotiations with Putin are impossible, he is a lying sociopath.

45 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

That's called projection, dear.

 

We overthrowed the legitimatly elected Ukrainian government.  

We armed and trained genuine nazis.

We supported the attempted ethnic cleansing of the Donbass region.

We FAFO'd.

Cool story bro. 

14 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

d Washington and Brussels refrained from constantly framing the conflict through a broader East–West struggle,

This is an East-West struggle.   The people of the Ukraine want nothing to do with Russia and the East. 

1 minute ago, Mike_Hunt said:

This is an East-West struggle.   The people of the Ukraine want nothing to do with Russia and the East. 

 

If the situation is truly that existential and I believe you are right then with Trump in the White House and populist movements on the rise in Europe, whatever the moral logic of the struggle, Ukraine is doomed. They have hitched their wagon to a fading vision of humanity, saddled with debt, facing a collapse of manufacturing, and burdened with a populace addicted to ever-expanding welfare entitlements. They have no desire to add a failed state with all the problems that entails to their paychecks, no matter what their leaders think.

23 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Kremlin talking points garbage.

Look what the genocidal barbaric orcs did to Mariopol.

Less than the Isarelis have done to Gaza but I digress. You need to stop listening to Times Radio they are lying to you. 

 

 

Times Radio as an aside is the pits - here's just a screengrab unsorted of the most popular. 

18 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Less than the Isarelis have done to Gaza but I digress. You need to stop listening to Times Radio they are lying to you. 

 

 

Yes you digress. Lame.

Just now, Jingthing said:

Yes you digress. Lame.

I daren't go and look at the frothing in that sub I value my mental health too much and they hounded out my mate.  

9 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Times Radio as an aside is the pits - here's just a screengrab unsorted of the most popular. 

I look at many sources including Russian propaganda for Russians.

36 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

 

If the situation is truly that existential and I believe you are right then with Trump in the White House and populist movements on the rise in Europe, whatever the moral logic of the struggle, Ukraine is doomed. They have hitched their wagon to a fading vision of humanity, saddled with debt, facing a collapse of manufacturing, and burdened with a populace addicted to ever-expanding welfare entitlements. They have no desire to add a failed state with all the problems that entails to their paychecks, no matter what their leaders think.

Your word salad won't change the fact that Russia invaded Ukraine to gain control over it  

1 minute ago, Mike_Hunt said:

Your word salad won't change the fact that Russia invaded Ukraine to gain control over it  

Have I ever denied that? The problem for the West is that with Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Serbia, Libya, and others, their moral authority has long since vanished oh, and let’s not forget the ‘Israel’ issue.

 

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202402/1307352.shtml

 

Hedges: The US does not want it to end. The goals of the American government are very different from those of the Ukrainians. Ukrainians obviously wanted to expel Russia, including from the Donbas. From the beginning, the Americans understood that, this was impossible. Their goals were to isolate Putin within Russia and Europe, and to degrade the Russian military. That's what proxy wars are about. They've certainly degraded the Russian military. They have essentially cut Putin off from Europe. There will be a negotiated settlement, which they could have easily negotiated before the whole war began.

I covered many proxy wars as a foreign correspondent. It's always the same. These wars are used to further the ends of the American empire to the detriment of the countries involved. Huge swaths of Ukraine have been destroyed. Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians have been killed or wounded. It's heartless and cynical. 

13 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Have I ever denied that? The problem for the West is that with Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Serbia, Libya, and others, their moral authority has long since vanished oh, and let’s not forget the ‘Israel’ issue.

 

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202402/1307352.shtml

 

Hedges: The US does not want it to end. The goals of the American government are very different from those of the Ukrainians. Ukrainians obviously wanted to expel Russia, including from the Donbas. From the beginning, the Americans understood that, this was impossible. Their goals were to isolate Putin within Russia and Europe, and to degrade the Russian military. That's what proxy wars are about. They've certainly degraded the Russian military. They have essentially cut Putin off from Europe. There will be a negotiated settlement, which they could have easily negotiated before the whole war began.

I covered many proxy wars as a foreign correspondent. It's always the same. These wars are used to further the ends of the American empire to the detriment of the countries involved. Huge swaths of Ukraine have been destroyed. Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians have been killed or wounded. It's heartless and cynical. 

My impression is that YOU are heartless and cynical, an aggressive repeater of misinformation, and a useful something something to Putin.

 

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

My impression is that YOU are heartless and cynical, an aggressive repeater of misinformation, and a useful something something to Putin.

 

Why don't you stick to debate rather than indulging in personal abuse , maybe muse on that ?

48 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

The problem for the West is that with Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Serbia, Libya, and others, their moral authority has long since vanished oh, and let’s not forget the ‘Israel’ issue.

Russia is a dying empire.   Both China and Russia are facing democratic issues. The US will be fine. 

39 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Why don't you stick to debate rather than indulging in personal abuse , maybe muse on that ?

As if you haven't done that.