So while Trump FAFOs and TACOs on tariffs and trade, the EU looks elsewhere. This is an absolutely massive deal, a deal it's taken 20 years to reach. But thanks to Trump's clown show a deal has now been reached.

Well done, Donald!

'India and EU set to announce landmark trade deal'

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crrnee01r9jo

""This is a perfect example of a partnership between two major economies of the world... This agreement represents 25% of the global GDP and one-third of global trade," Modi said while inaugurating the India Energy Week conference on Tuesday.

The EU is India's largest trading partner in goods, with bilateral merchandise trade reaching $136bn (£99.4bn) in 2024-25, nearly doubling over a decade.

The agreement - von der Leyen and India's commerce minister Piyush Goyal have described it as the "mother of all trade deals" - comes as pressure grows on Delhi and Brussels to secure alternative markets for exporters."

In case anyone is interested in analysis vs screeching

https://www.commonplace.org/p/daniel-kishi-on-china-our-trading

From the US Trade Rep

https://ustr.gov/about/policy-offices/press-office/speeches-and-remarks/2026/hamilton-today-trade-and-us-economic-strategy

"The United States is disrupting the status quo and taking the action needed to protect American interests.  The system that has operated for the past three decades required the United States to absorb the ever-rising trade surpluses of other nations.  We bought ever-larger amounts of artificially cheap goods funded by constantly growing piles of debt.  That approach was not sustainable—economically or politically.  Americans have repeatedly chosen to reject it at the ballot box.  The new system that is emerging is in the interest of American workers, producers, farmers, and ranchers.

However, the people of Europe, the United Kingdom, Mexico, and other economies are also vulnerable to non-market practices and overcapacity.  More and more, workers in those countries are seeing their own livelihoods disappear underneath them due to floods of cheap imports.  A balanced international economic order is in their interest as well.  If their politicians do not yet understand that they face the same pressures as America, then their voters will soon explain it to them."

I wonder how Tata is going to react to the flood of subsidized BYDs.

3 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

In case anyone is interested in analysis vs screeching

https://www.commonplace.org/p/daniel-kishi-on-china-our-trading

From the US Trade Rep

https://ustr.gov/about/policy-offices/press-office/speeches-and-remarks/2026/hamilton-today-trade-and-us-economic-strategy

"The United States is disrupting the status quo and taking the action needed to protect American interests.  The system that has operated for the past three decades required the United States to absorb the ever-rising trade surpluses of other nations.  We bought ever-larger amounts of artificially cheap goods funded by constantly growing piles of debt.  That approach was not sustainable—economically or politically.  Americans have repeatedly chosen to reject it at the ballot box.  The new system that is emerging is in the interest of American workers, producers, farmers, and ranchers.

However, the people of Europe, the United Kingdom, Mexico, and other economies are also vulnerable to non-market practices and overcapacity.  More and more, workers in those countries are seeing their own livelihoods disappear underneath them due to floods of cheap imports.  A balanced international economic order is in their interest as well.  If their politicians do not yet understand that they face the same pressures as America, then their voters will soon explain it to them."

I wonder how Tata is going to react to the flood of subsidized BYDs.

Yes, just factual reporting as usual from the facts and truth oriented Trump organization!

And here is some "screeching" from The Economist.

'Europe is aiming to sign a long-awaited free-trade deal with India'

https://www.economist.com/europe/2026/01/25/europe-is-aiming-to-sign-a-long-awaited-free-trade-deal-with-india

https://archive.ph/KxtuY

"The summit gives a boost to the India-EU relationship. Some think the real action is in bilateral deals between India and individual European countries. India and France have long had a strong relationship. Germany is showing more interest too: Friedrich Merz, the chancellor, visited India on January 12th with 23 business leaders in tow. The third Nordic-India summit will be held in Oslo later this year. And this week’s deals are significant: they come at a time when both Europe and India are responding to public rejections from the once-friendly Americans. Beyond the substance, the agreements are meant to signal that runners-up to the global superpowers have options of their own"

Omar doesn't approve.😆

3 minutes ago, BLMFem said:

Yes, just factual reporting as usual from the facts and truth oriented Trump organization!

And here is some "screeching" from The Economist.

'Europe is aiming to sign a long-awaited free-trade deal with India'

https://www.economist.com/europe/2026/01/25/europe-is-aiming-to-sign-a-long-awaited-free-trade-deal-with-india

https://archive.ph/KxtuY

"The summit gives a boost to the India-EU relationship. Some think the real action is in bilateral deals between India and individual European countries. India and France have long had a strong relationship. Germany is showing more interest too: Friedrich Merz, the chancellor, visited India on January 12th with 23 business leaders in tow. The third Nordic-India summit will be held in Oslo later this year. And this week’s deals are significant: they come at a time when both Europe and India are responding to public rejections from the once-friendly Americans. Beyond the substance, the agreements are meant to signal that runners-up to the global superpowers have options of their own"

Translation: You didnt read the analysis I provided.

In addition Tell us what a Free Trade deal between India and the EU means. What are the terms? What commodities and manufactured goods are covered. How does the deal between the EU and India affect individual countries in the EU? Etc.

I have 88 more questions I could ask.

11 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

Translation: You didnt read the analysis I provided.

In addition Tell us what a Free Trade deal between India and the EU means. What are the terms? What commodities and manufactured goods are covered. How does the deal between the EU and India affect individual countries in the EU? Etc.

I have 88 more questions I could ask.

Yes, you're full of "questions", as is usual when a subject comes up that you don't like.......

1 minute ago, BLMFem said:

Yes, you're full of "questions", as usual......

And you lack answers as usual.

42 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

Translation: You didnt read the analysis I provided.

In addition Tell us what a Free Trade deal between India and the EU means. What are the terms? What commodities and manufactured goods are covered. How does the deal between the EU and India affect individual countries in the EU? Etc.

I have 88 more questions I could ask.

Here are the official EU and Indian government statements about the deal

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/home/en

https://www.pib.gov.in/PressReleasePage.aspx?PRID=2219065&reg=3&lang=2

59 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

In case anyone is interested in analysis vs screeching

https://www.commonplace.org/p/daniel-kishi-on-china-our-trading

From the US Trade Rep

https://ustr.gov/about/policy-offices/press-office/speeches-and-remarks/2026/hamilton-today-trade-and-us-economic-strategy

"The United States is disrupting the status quo and taking the action needed to protect American interests.  The system that has operated for the past three decades required the United States to absorb the ever-rising trade surpluses of other nations.  We bought ever-larger amounts of artificially cheap goods funded by constantly growing piles of debt.  That approach was not sustainable—economically or politically.  Americans have repeatedly chosen to reject it at the ballot box.  The new system that is emerging is in the interest of American workers, producers, farmers, and ranchers.

However, the people of Europe, the United Kingdom, Mexico, and other economies are also vulnerable to non-market practices and overcapacity.  More and more, workers in those countries are seeing their own livelihoods disappear underneath them due to floods of cheap imports.  A balanced international economic order is in their interest as well.  If their politicians do not yet understand that they face the same pressures as America, then their voters will soon explain it to them."

I wonder how Tata is going to react to the flood of subsidized BYDs.

I always find it amusing when right-wing, free market capitalists complain about free-market capitalism in action. Some might view it as hypocrisy.

31 minutes ago, RayC said:

I always find it amusing when right-wing, free market capitalists complain about free-market capitalism in action. Some might view it as hypocrisy.

So you consider concerns about so called "free trade" a complaint about free market capitalism? So things like dumping must be accepted as a part of "free market capitalism"?

36 minutes ago, RayC said:

Here are the official EU and Indian government statements about the deal

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/home/en

https://www.pib.gov.in/PressReleasePage.aspx?PRID=2219065&reg=3&lang=2

Have you read the actual deal?

9 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

So you consider concerns about so called "free trade" a complaint about free market capitalism? So things like dumping must be accepted as a part of "free market capitalism"?

No I don't. If the US - or anyone else for that matter - has evidence to prove that China is dumping goods then they can justifiably impose tariffs and bring a complaint to the WTO.

However, what evidence has this Trump administration produced to show that China - or anyone else - is dumping goods in the US?

4 minutes ago, RayC said:

No I don't. If the US - or anyone else for that matter - has evidence to prove that China is dumping goods then they can justifiably impose tariffs and bring a complaint to the WTO.

However, what evidence has this Trump administration produced to show that China - or anyone else - is dumping goods in the US?

Trump seems to think it's sufficient evidence that a country has a trade surplus with the United States. Except when he doesn't. Like the cases of Brazil and Australia where the US actually runs a surplus with those countries. And he's still imposed tariffs on them. And then there's the case where he said the prime minister of Switzerland rubbed him the wrong way in a conversation so he imposed higher tariffs.

7 minutes ago, RayC said:

However, what evidence has this Trump administration produced to show that China - or anyone else - is dumping goods in the US?

Isnt their whole economy based on "dumping"? Have you read the analysis above? Are details of the Chinese economy open and available or hidden?

Arent their already concerns in Germany over Chinese electric cars?

13 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

Have you read the actual deal?

Did you bother reading either of the supplied links? The EU statement says that the draft text of the agreement has not been published yet.

I'll pre-empt a compliant that we cannot therefore be sure about the gains from the deal by pointing out that both sides are quoting figures and claiming it as, "the trade deal of the century". Even allowing for a degree of hyperbole, that suggests the deal is pretty substantial and significant.

However, if you remain unconvinced until you have had the opportunity to validate and verify the facts and figures for yourself, then that is obviously your prerogative.

1 minute ago, Yagoda said:

Isnt their whole economy based on "dumping"? Have you read the analysis above? Are details of the Chinese economy open and available or hidden?

Arent their already concerns in Germany over Chinese electric cars?

No, the whole Chinese economy is not based on 'dumping', it is export-driven. There is a fundamental difference.

Chinese EVs are available for +/-50% less in the domestic market compared to overseas markets, which does not suggest there is 'dumping'.

The piece which you supplied was an opinion piece which was extremely light on evidence to support its' premise.

Yes, Germany is concerned about Chinese EVs and should be as it is having a significant impact on the market share of the domestic producers

22 minutes ago, RayC said:

The piece which you supplied was an opinion piece which was extremely light on evidence to support its' premise.

Please tell me where he made an error.

23 minutes ago, RayC said:

it is export-driven. There is a fundamental difference.

So the opinion piece is correct? Do the Chinese suppress domestic consumption?

23 minutes ago, RayC said:

Chinese EVs are available for +/-50% less in the domestic market compared to overseas markets,

Do you have the figures to back that up?

39 minutes ago, RayC said:

Chinese EVs are available for +/-50% less in the domestic market compared to overseas markets, which does not suggest there is 'dumping'.

The piece which you supplied was an opinion piece which was extremely light on evidence to support its' premise.

Yes, Germany is concerned about Chinese EVs and should be as it is having a significant impact on the market share of the domestic producers

This is the consequence of wealthy countries trading with nations that lack labor standards and offer low wages: it results in the destruction of local businesses. Globalization 101.

7 hours ago, BLMFem said:

So while Trump FAFOs and TACOs on tariffs and trade, the EU looks elsewhere.

The difference here is that an actual deal has been signed, and now goes to the relevant bodies for ratification.

Trump claims 99 trade deals but never gets past agreeing to a "framework" for further negotiations leading to a potential deal to form a committee to study potential menu options to be served at possible upcoming yet still unscheduled meetings. In other words, nothing but unsubstantiated PR announcements.

29 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

Please tell me where he made an error.

I didn't say that he made an error. I said that he was light on evidence to support his premise. There's a difference. Because of that I remain unconvinced but open to persuasion.

29 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

So the opinion piece is correct? Do the Chinese suppress domestic consumption?

Again, no. Just because an economy is export-driven it doesn't follow that the domestic economy is suppressed.

Germany is an export-driven economy but very few, if any, accuse it of suppressing domestic demand.

29 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

Do you have the figures to back that up?

Do a search using the string, "cost of ev in china vs abroad"

How about Trump's other trade deals?

President Donald Trump said Monday that he was increasing tariffs on imported autos, pharmaceuticals, and lumber from South Korea from 15% to 25% because of a delay in that country’s legislature approving a trade deal with the United States reached last summer.

https://www.cnbc.com/2026/01/26/trump-south-korea-tariffs-trade-autos-pharma.html

Gosh, that doesn't smell like winning. Not at all.

What did they say in October?

Kim Yong-beom, the presidential chief of staff for policy, confirmed that the two sides agreed on the "details of a trade deal," as senior tariff negotiators have struggled to iron out the financing for a $350 billion Korean investment pledge to the United States.

https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/news/2025-10-29/national/diplomacy/Korea-US-finalize-bilateral-trade-deal-agree-on-350billion-investment-details/2432001

As this thread is supposed to be about a new trade deal between the EU and India, I think it will cause significant problems for the EU. Tariffs still apply to many items. As was pointed out elsewhere this is all about accessing cheap labour and exploiting the lack of environmental standards applicable in India. The EU will transfer its toxic polluting production to India. Delhi and Brussels have also agreed on a mobility framework that eases restrictions for professionals to travel between India and the EU in the short term. Ask Canada and the UK how that sort of arrangement has worked out. This type of agreement made it easy to abuse the visa process in Canada and greedy Canadians who sought to exploit the use of Indian "professionals" for "professions" such as truck driving and hospitality sector work, destroyed the Canadian immigration system that was supposed to be based on merit. It created a housing crisis in Canada as affordable housing was snatched up by temporary work visa holders and students (studying at questionable schools), and made it next to impossible for Canada's youth to find part time or summer jobs in the service sector.

1 hour ago, RayC said:

Again, no. Just because an economy is export-driven it doesn't follow that the domestic economy is suppressed.

Germany is an export-driven economy but very few, if any, accuse it of suppressing domestic demand.

Actually China does depress domestic consumption. Here are the two here are two of the way that it does it. For one thing it keeps Bank interest rates very low for depositors. So this allows Banks to make low interest loans to industry .

Second, and here's something right wingers should applaud, it provides a very threadbare social safety net. Which means Chinese citizens have to save much more intensively because they know there won't be adequate government support for their retirement. Or for that matter, medical care, should they need it. So that undermines a consumer propensity to spend.

The government's economic mismanagement that led to the housing boom and it's subsequent indifference to the financial phase of those who bought said housing is another way that it has undermined consumers' ability to spend.

It was an excellent column by a Chinese economist in the New York Times but about the Chinese government and she in particular, has sacrificed the economic welfare of its citizens, in order to pursue an aggressive and militarized foreign policy. But I'm on a cell phone now and don't want to deal with cutting and pasting.

35 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

This type of agreement made it easy to abuse the visa process in Canada and greedy Canadians who sought to exploit the use of Indian "professionals" for "professions" such as truck driving and hospitality sector work,

This is also occurring in the USA with H-1B visas in the tech sector.

In early July 2025, Microsoft announced it would lay off about 9,000 employees, marking its largest round of job cuts since 2023. This move is part of a wider trend in 2025, as Microsoft has already let go of more than 15,000 workers this year alone, with earlier layoffs in May and June accounting for over 6,000 job losses. The decision has sparked strong reactions across the tech industry, especially as it comes at a time when Microsoft is also submitting thousands of H-1B visa applications for foreign workers.

https://www.visaverge.com/h1b/microsoft-lays-off-9000-amid-h-1b-visa-controversy-and-claims/

7 minutes ago, Alan Zweibel said:

Actually China does depress domestic consumption. Here are the two here are two of the way that it does it. For one thing it keeps Bank interest rates very low for depositors. So this allows Banks to make low interest loans to industry .

Second, and here's something right wingers should applaud, it provides a very threadbare social safety net. Which means Chinese citizens have to save much more intensively because they know there won't be adequate government support for their retirement. Or for that matter, medical care, should they need it. So that undermines a consumer propensity to spend.

The government's economic mismanagement that led to the housing boom and it's subsequent indifference to the financial phase of those who bought said housing is another way that it has undermined consumers' ability to spend.

It was an excellent column by a Chinese economist in the New York Times but about the Chinese government and she in particular, has sacrificed the economic welfare of its citizens, in order to pursue an aggressive and militarized foreign policy. But I'm on a cell phone now and don't want to deal with cutting and pasting.

And one other huge factor I forgot to mention is that China does not allow the yuan to float freely. It keeps the rate artificially low in order to subsidize exports.

1 hour ago, RayC said:

I didn't say that he made an error. I said that he was light on evidence to support his premise. There's a difference. Because of that I remain unconvinced but open to persuasion.

Again, no. Just because an economy is export-driven it doesn't follow that the domestic economy is suppressed.

Germany is an export-driven economy but very few, if any, accuse it of suppressing domestic demand.

Do a search using the string, "cost of ev in china vs abroad"

Well you can buy an f250 in America hell of a lot cheaper than you can buy it in Japan

If Trump's goal is to destroy the USD, he's certainly on the right path. His massive deficit, which will top $2.2 trillion for 2025, plus the EU-India trade deal, coupled the idiocy Trump displayed for all the world to see at Davos, seems to be bolstering the euro. It's sniffing 1.2, after trading about 1.04-1.05 when Trump took office.

A tumbling dollar is not going to entice foreigners to fund the 30-40% of the deficit, nor with Trump's unpredictability and vindictiveness, is it likely to prompt foreigners to invest in US plants and production.

Other than miscreant leaders like the ghoulish MbS and dictator Orban, no civilized leader anywhere likes Trump. That means declining business with, and investment in, the US. Manufacturing jobs are down since Trump took over, and also spending on new plants and factories is down, since he took over. So much for tariff benefits.

17 minutes ago, Wingate said:

If Trump's goal is to destroy the USD, he's certainly on the right path. His massive deficit, which will top $2.2 trillion for 2025, plus the EU-India trade deal, coupled the idiocy Trump displayed for all the world to see at Davos, seems to be bolstering the euro. It's sniffing 1.2, after trading about 1.04-1.05 when Trump took office.

If the dems take the House and Senate in November, will they:

A) Fight tooth and nail to cut spending and work towards a balanced budget.

B) Increase base line spending,

19 minutes ago, TedG said:

If the dems take the House and Senate in November, will they:

A) Fight tooth and nail to cut spending and work towards a balanced budget.

B) Increase base line spending,

How about undoing Trump's tax cuts. They're not exactly popular. But raising taxes on the rich is very popular.

37 minutes ago, Alan Zweibel said:

How about undoing Trump's tax cuts. They're not exactly popular. But raising taxes on the rich is very popular.

You are going to raise taxes on the rich by 2.2 trillion dollars?