None of which, if even the most frothy mouthed interpretations are true, justify pinning him down, punching the living daylights out of him, pepper spraying him from a couple of inches in the face, disarming him and then shooting him ten times in the back, at very close range.

It was murder, any way you look at it. Carried out by a panicked untrained bunch of thugs masquerading as "Federal Law Enforcement Agents".

If they knew who he was, and what (allegedly) he had done 11 days earlier, then it is even worse, as it carries the implication of premeditation!

4 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

I'm not saying the shooting in and of itself is justified or not. What I'm pointing out is he wasn't the peaceful good guy that the left is purporting him to be. He was clearly an agitator and he was clearly armed whilst agitating.

He was simply an active protester. "Agitator" is an invention of the ICE aficionados and DHS fanboys.

The fact that he was "clearly armed" is totally irrelevant, especially in a state where concealed carry is legally permitted.

Police brutality in front of good citizens showing they distaste of fascist thugs.

1 hour ago, unblocktheplanet said:

Peaceful protesting isn't impeding or physically engaging with any type of law enforcement on any type of law enforcement operation. Impeding federal law enforcement is a federal offence and not protected by the First Amendment. Petti was not peacefully protesting.

ICE isn't doing any law enforcement as they operated totally outside the judiciary system, hence no law to enforce. In fact many of their actions will be found not to conform to the US constitution. This could become interesting IF and when the US returns to democracy. I only hope that the good citizens demonstration make solid records of the brutalities, brake and entries, etc.. for further legal action. The fact that these criminals wear mask is painfully revealing isn't.

34 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

The fact that he was "clearly armed" is totally irrelevant, especially in a state where concealed carry is legally permitted.

The fact that he was "clearly armed" with a concealed weapon is totally irrelevant, especially in a state where concealed carry is legally permitted.

2 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

The fact that he was "clearly armed" with a concealed weapon is totally irrelevant, especially in a state where concealed carry is legally permitted.

Exactly. These ICE numpties and their enablers aren't doing their NRA and gun nut buddies any favours with this obfuscation over the non-existing point when legal carry suddenly becomes illegal, ie in the presence of law enforcement.

Innocent ?

Sorry but anybody walking around carrying a sidearm (licenced) in a riot atmosphere, who yells and spits on officers, who trys to block them physically from doing their job and then gets shot, what was the man expecting ?

Of course, nobody is gleeing on the fellow being shot as a such a death is always tragic. But one cannot but ponder on the fact that the man was looking for trouble on the other hand.

I do not think that the officer who fired, woke up that morning with the intention to shoot.

The entire controversy orchestrated by the woke left wing medias, seems more a anti Trump issue as usual and definately not an non biaised analysis that one would expect from any honest medias. I do not like the bully like attitude of the Trump alikes and al.. but it's more then obvious that all the fuss made, is mainly political as nobody really gives a hoot about the fate of all the illegals that America has allowed to stay within it's borders. Sorry, no offence please. 🙏

40 minutes ago, SingAPorn said:

I do not think that the officer who fired, woke up that morning with the intention to shoot.

Both of them?

2 hours ago, dinsdale said:

I'm not saying the shooting in and of itself is justified or not. What I'm pointing out is he wasn't the peaceful good guy that the left is purporting him to be. He was clearly an agitator and he was clearly armed whilst agitating.

Why are you not saying the shooting of a disarmed guy with his face pressed to the ground and several ICE agents on top on him, then getting 10 bullet holes pumped into him is not justified? Is it that hard for you to comprehend? Why cloud the issue with past actions he may have done that have nothing to do with the situation I outlined in my first sentence? Try not to overthink it, it really is quite simple, I am sure you will get it eventually. Good luck.

13 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

And you believe that your "guess" is an excuse for murder?

An Ice blooded murder, their trademark.

14 minutes ago, Peter Crow said:

An Ice blooded murder, their trademark.

Hearing there is footage from four bodycams now being assessed. Let's see what comes out. Maybe it won't matter to you and others as your minds have already been convinced it's murder and not a lawful shooting. It would be rational bear in mind there are legal parameters for what constitutes murder and what constitutes a lawful shooting. Which ever it was it was clearly not good and should have been handled better by both the ICE agents and Pretti. ICE agents should have deescalated and Pretti should not have physically resisted especially being that he was armed.

39 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

ICE agents should have deescalated and Pretti should not have physically resisted especially being that he was armed.

And, as repeatedly said by those not swept away by emotion, he should not have been there armed.

4 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

And, as repeatedly said by those not swept away by emotion, he should not have been there armed.

He did have the right to be there armed as he was licenced to carry concealed but this 2nd Amendment right relates to peaceful protest. What Pretti engaged in wasn't peaceful protesting. It was agitating and interfering in a federal law enforcement operation. Basically he was committing a federal offence when armed. Should this have resulted in his death? In my opinion no but the reality is if he wasn't armed the outcome would have been different just like if the Good woman got out of her car when lawfully instructed to do so she too would be alive today.

1 hour ago, dinsdale said:

ICE agents should have deescalated and Pretti should not have physically resisted especially being that he was armed.

Pretti probably should have also chosen wiser than the Sig P320 he was reported to be carrying.

33 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

And, as repeatedly said by those not swept away by emotion, he should not have been there armed.

Neither should have the ICE people. In any case Pretty never pulled his gun, he was rightly licensed, he had the nerves, not the ICE thugs, who pumped 10 bullets into his dead body. Anyway Ice must be frozen, their recruitment and training thoroughly audited before they get thawed.

Apparently spitting is now a capital offence. Kicking is now a capital offence.

The video says the man "appears to be" Pretti, and that is sufficient to execute someone. No arrest. No court case.

All of the above argument comes down to one thing.

The conservative, so called christians, on this forum believe murder on the street of someone not of their sect is reasonable and justified.

Hatred of someone with differing political or religious beliefs is destroying the once "great" country laughingly known as the UNITED States.

44 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

All of the above argument comes down to one thing.

The conservative, so called christians, on this forum believe murder on the street of someone not of their sect is reasonable and justified.

Hatred of someone with differing political or religious beliefs is destroying the once "great" country laughingly known as the UNITED States.

Ridiculous comment. He was an armed agitator that took on ICE. He was NOT peacefully protesting. He put himself into a potential fatal situation.

5 hours ago, dinsdale said:

Hearing there is footage from four bodycams now being assessed. Let's see what comes out. Maybe it won't matter to you and others as your minds have already been convinced it's murder and not a lawful shooting. It would be rational bear in mind there are legal parameters for what constitutes murder and what constitutes a lawful shooting. Which ever it was it was clearly not good and should have been handled better by both the ICE agents and Pretti. ICE agents should have deescalated and Pretti should not have physically resisted especially being that he was armed.

In the spit and taillight kicking episode, one ICE guy responded to Pretti's provocation by jumping out of the SUV and tackling him, but it looks like after a small scuffle, where the concealed carry was revealed, it appears the ICE collective chose to de-escalate the provocative act and leave the scene.

In the second episode, Pretti appears to be less confrontational, mostly filming, but was taken down and pepper-sprayed by ICE after trying to assist a protestor who had been shoved to the ground by another ICE operative. In this instance, it appears the ICE collective chose to escalate a non-provocative act.

It could be handled better if DHS weren't the ones carrying out the investigation.

As far as I am aware, there are no special law enforcement-related caveats on a legal concealed carry.

20 hours ago, dinsdale said:

He's clearly an agitator and he took a gun and two high capacity magazines to agitate. He was involved with IceWatch and there's pretty good evidence he was in the massive and highly organised Signal group. This isn't discrediting. It's who he was. A leftist agitator who impeded federal law enforcement operations.

You are the agitator here, ol' chap....

3 hours ago, dinsdale said:

Ridiculous comment. He was an armed agitator that took on ICE. He was NOT peacefully protesting. He put himself into a potential fatal situation.

This enduring fixation with him being armed.

Apart from the fact that his gun and extra clips had been removed by an ICE operative prior to his being shot dead, and thus being unarmed at the time he was shot dead, the fact that he was armed is irrelevant.

2 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

This enduring fixation with him being armed.

Apart from the fact that his gun and extra clips had been removed by an ICE operative prior to his being shot dead, and thus being unarmed at the time he was shot dead, the fact that he was armed is irrelevant.

It is pointless pointing out the facts again and again to those with an agenda, especially that bloke who..............Trump's a_____ 🤥

The same bloke is searching for dirt on the executed bloke to make his murder look legit.....🤣

1 minute ago, transam said:

You are the agitator here, ol' chap....

Ridiculous. Answer these three simple questions with a yes or no answer. I'm sure you won't.

1. Was he peacefully protesting?

2. Did he physically resist?

3. Was he armed?

   Here is what the vision shows. 1. No. 2. Yes. 3. Yes.

   Can you answer these three questions without your usual deflections, personal attacks or puerile comments.

   Is this enough for him to be shot dead. Let's see what the bodycams reveal. I've already stated that this was handled poorly by ICE as they should have deescalated and Pretti's decision to go armed and actively engage with ICE officers was to state the obvious not a good idea.

15 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Apart from the fact that his gun and extra clips had been removed by an ICE operative prior to his being shot dead

You've seen the removal of the extra clips? Please share this footage.

3 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Ridiculous. Answer these three simple questions with a yes or no answer. I'm sure you won't.

1. Was he peacefully protesting?

2. Did he physically resist?

3. Was he armed?

   Here is what the vision shows. 1. No. 2. Yes. 3. Yes.

   Can you answer these three questions without your usual deflections, personal attacks or puerile comments.

   Is this enough for him to be shot dead. Let's see what the bodycams reveal. I've already stated that this was handled poorly by ICE as they should have deescalated and Pretti's decision to go armed and actively engage with ICE officers was to state the obvious not a good idea.

1. Did about 6 blokes disarm him, THEN shoot him multiple times until dead........? 🤫

Yes or No.....?

That is all that matters....I have a few videos for you later, and the other Trump a___.. ...

Stay tuned....🤗

18 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

Peaceful protesting isn't impeding or physically engaging with any type of law enforcement on any type of law enforcement operation. Impeding federal law enforcement is a federal offence and not protected by the First Amendment. Petti was not peacefully protesting.

16 hours ago, Peter Crow said:

ICE isn't doing any law enforcement as they operated totally outside the judiciary system, hence no law to enforce. In fact many of their actions will be found not to conform to the US constitution. This could become interesting IF and when the US returns to democracy. I only hope that the good citizens demonstration make solid records of the brutalities, brake and entries, etc.. for further legal action. The fact that these criminals wear mask is painfully revealing isn't.

That is not my quote at all. Hm. Nonviolent civil disobedience always obstructs lawless police. By sit-ins, human chains, blockades and many other tactics, expecting arrest to get the issue before the public.

Is kicking out a taillight nonviolent? It's not beating a human being to the ground!

I think that may have been me quoting an OP. Sorry for the confusion.

5 hours ago, dinsdale said:

He did have the right to be there armed as he was licenced to carry concealed but this 2nd Amendment right relates to peaceful protest. What Pretti engaged in wasn't peaceful protesting. It was agitating and interfering in a federal law enforcement operation. Basically he was committing a federal offence when armed. Should this have resulted in his death? In my opinion no but the reality is if he wasn't armed the outcome would have been different just like if the Good woman got out of her car when lawfully instructed to do so she too would be alive today.

Where in the second amendment does it state that legally owned, concealed carry guns are allowed at "peacefully protest only"?

I guess it's right there, just after the similarly non-existent statement about legally owned concealed carry firearms not being allowed in the "presence" of law enforcement.

5 hours ago, Peter Crow said:

Neither should have the ICE people. In any case Pretty never pulled his gun, he was rightly licensed, he had the nerves, not the ICE thugs, who pumped 10 bullets into his dead body. Anyway Ice must be frozen, their recruitment and training thoroughly audited before they get thawed.

Pretti was armed in both instances. Perhaps he was the kind of American who exercised his Constitutional rights to carry every single day. (Hopefully not in the ICU.) For all we know, he was an NRA member. And he was not hot-headed enough to draw his weapon. He was murdered.

16 hours ago, SingAPorn said:

I do not think that the officer who fired, woke up that morning with the intention to shoot.

I wonder what those agents talk about in the locker room, don't you? Can't imagine any would be so stupid as to go into a bar...

28 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

You've seen the removal of the extra clips? Please share this footage.

The video is in the public domain and the picture of the gun and a clip allegedly removed from him have been posted on media were released by the relevant authorities.

What's your new fascination with seeking video evidence of the extra clips being removed? Even if they weren't removed until AFTER he was shot dead, they are clips and without the gun that had been removed BEFORE he was shot dead, they are both harmless and irrelevant.