I don't think Trump would honor Nato Article 5 to help the Baltic States.

The UK? Maybe.

43 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I don't think Trump would honor Nato Article 5 to help the Baltic States.

The UK? Maybe.

The UK is weak. I see Poland stepping up. Why should the USA step in if the majorly of the European nations in would probably sit it out? Europe is not prepared for a war against Russia. All Russian needs to do is send meat waves until Europe runs out of ammo.

Without U.S. stockpiles and equipment depots, Europe would face an immediate logistical challenge from the very outbreak of hostilities.  Ammunition shortages would be catastrophic.  The war in Ukraine has demonstrated that European stockpiles cannot sustain modern, high-intensity combat.  Stocks of artillery shells, precision munitions, and armoured vehicle replacements would be exhausted within weeks, with no immediate means of replenishment. 

https://wavellroom.com/2025/03/19/what-if-europe-had-to-fight-tonight-without-the-americans/#:~:text=Without%20U.S.%20stockpiles%20and%20equipment,to%20where%20it%20is%20needed.

German armed forces only have two days of ammo.

https://www.thetimes.com/world/europe/article/germany-weapons-war-ammunition-stocks-ukraine-ptc69qdcz

Putin is threatening? thats all he does is threaten.. Putin may, Putin might, Putin could, Putin BS

16 hours ago, Effective altruism said:

US AirPower would obliterate Russian forces in Ukraine. Whenever the USA has gone up against Russian equipment, the USA has dominated. You need to come to the realization that the USA military outclasses Russia.

The US has never fought a peer combatant since World War 2. It would be an interesting match up. So it would be the United States Air Force 4,500+ miles from the US operating in Ukraine and flying sorties into Russia, while Russia defends her Homeland from US invasion. I'd find that match-up very interesting. Sure sure sure, "US AirPower would obliterate Russian forces in Ukraine," well, unless it doesn't.

Regarding the EU building weapons to send to Ukraine to fire into Russia territory, as well as Baltic states launching drones into Russia from their own territories into Russia - it makes them co-belligerents. Russia has the right of self-defense under Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, which makes every EU country building weapons for the explicit use against Russia - a target.

There is a saying about Russian restraint: "Slow to saddle, fast to ride." Like a rattlesnake warning off a threat, Russia has been signaling that if the EU and UK want to continue to be part of offensive thrusts into Mother Russia? When the Russian Bear wakes up, it will be time to dance.

And from my perspective? Western nations world-wide have been projecting their intention to go to war with Russia, China, the DPRK, Iran, and all Global South nations which refuse to bend a knee to Western colonialism. We've got a world war on the horizon.

Why doesn't Russia just join the EU / NATO?

They could exchange gas/oil for baguettes, cheese, pierogis, belgian chocolate, the Mona Lisa and the Rembrandt collection.

And that would be the world's biggest super duper superpower right there.

8 hours ago, candide said:

It's not going to happen.

I wouldn't be so sure this is from Google.

The European Union is actively considering and developing a more robust, formalised defensive framework, driven by Russia's war in Ukraine and the need for greater security independence from the United States. 

As of early 2026, the EU is focused on several key defensive initiatives: 

• UK-EU Security and Defence Pact: The EU and the UK are actively negotiating a "landmark" defence and security pact to formalize cooperation, with talks ongoing in early 2026. This pact is intended to strengthen cooperation on cybersecurity, maritime security, and defense procurement.

• European Defence Union (EDU): EU officials, including Defence Commissioner Andrius Kubilius, have urged the creation of a "European Defence Union" that could involve a binding intergovernmental treaty. This proposed union might bring together EU member states along with the UK, Norway, and Ukraine to modernize Europe's defense architecture.

• ReArm Europe Plan (€150b): The EU is implementing a €150 billion loan program designed to boost the European defense industry and encourage member states to "buy more European" weapons.

• Defence Readiness Roadmap 2030: Presented in October 2025, this roadmap outlines how the EU intends to increase its defense readiness, including establishing a comprehensive border defense capability and enhancing intelligence-sharing.

• Revitalizing Article 42.7: European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen has called for "bringing to life" the EU’s existing mutual defence commitment (Article 42.7 of the Lisbon Treaty), moving it from a theoretical, political, or psychological reassurance to a concrete, operational defense mechanism. 

  The Guardian +10

These efforts come amidst warnings that Europe needs to prepare for its own defense, especially in light of potential reductions in U.S. commitment to NATO.

6 hours ago, save the frogs said:

It lead to a war.

If that's what you wanted, then that's what you got.

Nothin' ain't free, boy.

So sonny, you don't believe that Ukraine should be an independent, sovereign nation but instead should be part of a Greater Russia.

1 hour ago, save the frogs said:

Why doesn't Russia just join the EU / NATO?

They could exchange gas/oil for baguettes, cheese, pierogis, belgian chocolate, the Mona Lisa and the Rembrandt collection.

And that would be the world's biggest super duper superpower right there.

The major stumbling block to that suggestion is that Russia does not currently meet the Copenhagen criteria, or respect and promote democratic values, which are prerequisites for a nation which wishes to join the EU.

11 minutes ago, RayC said:

So sonny, you don't believe that Ukraine should be an independent, sovereign nation but instead should be part of a Greater Russia.

Nobody cares what I or you believe. We don't run countries.

If countries butt heads and disagree, then the only way to solve differences is war.

6 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

Nobody cares what I or you believe. We don't run countries.

A statement of the obvious but what is your point?

6 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

If countries butt heads and disagree, then the only way to solve differences is war.

War is not inevitable, diplomacy can succeed. However, if war does break out then the rest of the international community has to decide what side, if any, they will take in the conflict.

9 minutes ago, RayC said:

War is not inevitable, diplomacy can succeed. However, if war does break out then the rest of the international community has to decide what side, if any, they will take in the conflict.

What difference does it make if I root for Ukraine or not? Will cheerleaders from Thailand help them win? How? Some magical law of physics where positive vibes reach the soldiers?

I'm not rooting for anyone. I don't have anything to do with this war (thankfully).

Maybe Russia deserves it more. I really don't know. It's expansionism on both sides, unless you are from EU and cannot see it objectively.

They did try diplomacy and it failed. And neither side wants to relinquish Ukraine, so here we are.

1 hour ago, Bannoi said:

I wouldn't be so sure this is from Google.

The European Union is actively considering and developing a more robust, formalised defensive framework, driven by Russia's war in Ukraine and the need for greater security independence from the United States. 

As of early 2026, the EU is focused on several key defensive initiatives: 

• UK-EU Security and Defence Pact: The EU and the UK are actively negotiating a "landmark" defence and security pact to formalize cooperation, with talks ongoing in early 2026. This pact is intended to strengthen cooperation on cybersecurity, maritime security, and defense procurement.

• European Defence Union (EDU): EU officials, including Defence Commissioner Andrius Kubilius, have urged the creation of a "European Defence Union" that could involve a binding intergovernmental treaty. This proposed union might bring together EU member states along with the UK, Norway, and Ukraine to modernize Europe's defense architecture.

• ReArm Europe Plan (€150b): The EU is implementing a €150 billion loan program designed to boost the European defense industry and encourage member states to "buy more European" weapons.

• Defence Readiness Roadmap 2030: Presented in October 2025, this roadmap outlines how the EU intends to increase its defense readiness, including establishing a comprehensive border defense capability and enhancing intelligence-sharing.

• Revitalizing Article 42.7: European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen has called for "bringing to life" the EU’s existing mutual defence commitment (Article 42.7 of the Lisbon Treaty), moving it from a theoretical, political, or psychological reassurance to a concrete, operational defense mechanism. 

  The Guardian +10

These efforts come amidst warnings that Europe needs to prepare for its own defense, especially in light of potential reductions in U.S. commitment to NATO.

Of course, the EU can encourage cooperation, support European industries, finance strategic stocks, etc... but fundamental defense decisions such as running an army, mandating conscription, declaring war, sending nukes, etc.... are clearly out of scope.

It would require the EU to become a federal State.

20 hours ago, save the frogs said:

we are not invited to board meetings and we don't know all the conversations taking place behind the scenes.

So that being the case, I'll ask again.

What is your source for the claim that Orban said Putin was bluffing about invading Ukraine, and when did Putin ever threaten to invade Ukraine?

4 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

So that being the case, I'll ask again.

What is your source for the claim that Orban said Putin was bluffing about invading Ukraine, and when did Putin ever threaten to invade Ukraine?

I already posted the video above.

29 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

I already posted the video above.

Orban was a Cold War relic, like Putin. In that interview he refused to acknowledge that Ukraine is a sovereign state, kept calling it a "territory". Someone had better tell him that until 1918, Hungary was never a real country.

What the <deleted> does he mean by calling Ukraine a "Buffer State"? Orban rather persistently refers to Ukraine as though it were merely a “territory” or some convenient “buffer state,” which rather betrays the same Cold War mindset he so often appears to share with Putin—an outdated habit of seeing Europe in terms of spheres of influence and buffer zones carved up by great powers. But Ukraine is not a pawn on someone else’s chessboard; it is a sovereign state with its own borders, elections, and political agency. This isn’t realism, it’s geopolitical nostalgia dressed up as strategy. And the more Orban leans on it, the more it sounds like a man arguing yesterday’s map in today’s Europe.

The sooner Putin falls out of a ground floor window, breaking his neck, the better.

What did Russia do as soon as Finland joined NATO? In 2024, it reduced the number of forces it had on the Finnish border. Moscow knows NATO is no threat to Russia, and it knows its a defensive alliance. That's just bluster. Moscow wants control of Ukraine for frankly racist reasons, not dissimilar to Germany's Lebansraum, but in a slightly different way. Germany wanted more land for Germans. Russia needs more Russians, or more precisely, more Slavs. Collapsing birth rates among Slavs, and exploding rates among non-Slavs doesn't mean that Russia will stop having a Slavic majority any time soon, but it does mean that the character of Russia, which is largely built around a myt of Peter the Great, Ivan the Terrible, will change, when its, maybe 40% Salafist. Converting Ukrainians into Russians maintains their hegemony. <deleted> up Commie thinking.

2 hours ago, candide said:

Of course, the EU can encourage cooperation, support European industries, finance strategic stocks, etc... but fundamental defense decisions such as running an army, mandating conscription, declaring war, sending nukes, etc.... are clearly out of scope.

It would require the EU to become a federal State.

The idea that the EU is incapable of defensive cohesion doesn’t really hold up; it tends to rely on a rather outdated picture of Europe as permanently disjointed and indecisive. In practice, when pressure has come, the EU has shown it can act with unity: coordinated sanctions, pooled funding for defence support, joint procurement of weapons, and close alignment with NATO. That's not paralysis. Rather it’s coordination in a system designed around sovereign states working in concert, not a single centralised military command. In reality, the EU’s strength lies in getting 27 governments, with different histories and interests, to move broadly in the same direction when it matters. You don't get the same cooperation in a parliament, senate or congress.

NATO sets rules on treaty members defence spending commitments. It has a command structure called SHAFE. It established common operating standards. It maintains its own specialist units. Its also not a Federation. I don't see why the EU wouldn't evolve to take many of the same functions as NATO, with one important advantage. NATO is not a UN member and has no formal institutional role in UN voting bodies. Legally, it is an intergovernmental defence alliance under the North Atlantic Treaty. At the UN, NATO does not speak or vote as an entity at all. The EU is different. It is a supranational organisation with legal personality under international lawThat allows it to hold observer status at the UN General Assembly, speak on behalf of its member states when they have agreed a common position and table proposals and coordinate joint statements in UN fora.

3 hours ago, save the frogs said:

What difference does it make if I root for Ukraine or not? Will cheerleaders from Thailand help them win? How? Some magical law of physics where positive vibes reach the soldiers?

Is there a point to any of that?

3 hours ago, save the frogs said:

I'm not rooting for anyone. I don't have anything to do with this war (thankfully).

Fine but why bother posting if you are a disinterested observer.

3 hours ago, save the frogs said:

Maybe Russia deserves it more. I really don't know. It's expansionism on both sides, unless you are from EU and cannot see it objectively.

However, there is one blindingly obvious difference between EU and Russian expansionism: One is non-violent and the other is not. Ukraine - or any of the existing 27 EU member states for that matter - were not coerced into applying for EU membership, they joined the EU of their own violation, whereas Ukraine did not invite Russian forces onto its territory.

3 hours ago, save the frogs said:

They did try diplomacy and it failed. And neither side wants to relinquish Ukraine, so here we are.

I must have missed Putin's efforts at diplomacy.

1 hour ago, Roadsternut said:

Moscow wants control of Ukraine for frankly racist reasons,

Putin even made an obscure comment about Israel practically being a russian speaking country. I wonder if that's cause for concern.

Anyway, regarding Orban, he;s out now so you can no longer use him as an excuse for anything.

11 hours ago, connda said:

The US has never fought a peer combatant since World War 2. It would be an interesting match up. So it would be the United States Air Force 4,500+ miles from the US operating in Ukraine and flying sorties into Russia, while Russia defends her Homeland from US invasion. I'd find that match-up very interesting. Sure sure sure, "US AirPower would obliterate Russian forces in Ukraine," well, unless it doesn't.

No one is discussing attacks on Russian territory. I’m referring to assisting Ukraine in expelling Russian forces from its land. Additionally, the U.S. military significantly outmatches the Russian military.

11 hours ago, connda said:

Regarding the EU building weapons to send to Ukraine to fire into Russia territory, as well as Baltic states launching drones into Russia from their own territories into Russia - it makes them co-belligerents. Russia has the right of self-defense under Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, which makes every EU country building weapons for the explicit use against Russia - a target

Let Russia try. You need to remember that Russia is the aggressor in Ukraine.

11 hours ago, connda said:

There is a saying about Russian restraint: "Slow to saddle, fast to ride." Like a rattlesnake warning off a threat, Russia has been signaling that if the EU and UK want to continue to be part of offensive thrusts into Mother Russia? When the Russian Bear wakes up, it will be time to dance.

I'm typing this slowly so you can understand it. No one is planning to invade Russian territory. The goal is to expel Russia from Ukraine.

FYI, Russia is a paper tiger.

11 hours ago, connda said:

And from my perspective? Western nations world-wide have been projecting their intention to go to war with Russia, China, the DPRK, Iran, and all Global South nations which refuse to bend a knee to Western colonialism. We've got a world war on the horizon.

You need to lay off the drugs.

8 hours ago, save the frogs said:

They did try diplomacy and it failed. And neither side wants to relinquish Ukraine, so here we are.

The people of Ukraine want nothing to do with Russian, and Putin will lose in the end.

Putin would not dare attack the EU.

On 4/18/2026 at 5:33 AM, save the frogs said:

It lead to a war.

If that's what you wanted, then that's what you got.

Nothin' ain't free, boy.

It’s what Putin wanted, it’s what he got
Russia already had a demographic problem, now it is a disaster
Nothing ain’t free comrade

Russia planted the seeds. Uncle Joe starving to death 3 to 5 million Ukrainians in a man-made famine; Holodomor. The past is never dead; it isn’t even past. All Russia can do now is snarl, bellow & threaten. Blame the west & push conspiracy theories on its own population, to keep them controllable. This will not end well for the Russian people.

53 minutes ago, Dcheech said:

It’s what Putin wanted, it’s what he got
Russia already had a demographic problem, now it is a disaster
Nothing ain’t free comrade

Russia planted the seeds. Uncle Joe starving to death 3 to 5 million Ukrainians in a man-made famine; Holodomor. The past is never dead; it isn’t even past. All Russia can do now is snarl, bellow & threaten. Blame the west & push conspiracy theories on its own population, to keep them controllable. This will not end well for the Russian people.

The EU will crush Russia!

On 4/18/2026 at 3:12 AM, TedG said:

The UK is weak. I see Poland stepping up. Why should the USA step in if the majorly of the European nations in would probably sit it out? Europe is not prepared for a war against Russia. All Russian needs to do is send meat waves until Europe runs out of ammo.

Without U.S. stockpiles and equipment depots, Europe would face an immediate logistical challenge from the very outbreak of hostilities.  Ammunition shortages would be catastrophic.  The war in Ukraine has demonstrated that European stockpiles cannot sustain modern, high-intensity combat.  Stocks of artillery shells, precision munitions, and armoured vehicle replacements would be exhausted within weeks, with no immediate means of replenishment. 

https://wavellroom.com/2025/03/19/what-if-europe-had-to-fight-tonight-without-the-americans/#:~:text=Without%20U.S.%20stockpiles%20and%20equipment,to%20where%20it%20is%20needed.

German armed forces only have two days of ammo.

https://www.thetimes.com/world/europe/article/germany-weapons-war-ammunition-stocks-ukraine-ptc69qdcz

Finally, It took 3 pages before someone came along and told it like it is: Europe is unfit for any kind of war. Period.

That's why I posted before, that Europe can only hope that the Ukrainians keep Putin busy as long as possible.

3 hours ago, swissie said:

Finally, It took 3 pages before someone came along and told it like it is: Europe is unfit for any kind of war. Period.

That's why I posted before, that Europe can only hope that the Ukrainians keep Putin busy as long as possible.

It's not only about keeping Putin "busy", it's also about Ukraine hanging as a Damocles sword above Russia.

Even if a peace agreement of some sort were achieved, it is obvious that Ukraine would attack Russia right after another front were open by Russia somewhere else

Putin knows it, and that's why he absolutely wants to impose clauses to downsize and restrict the Ukrainian army.

Putin looks like "The Boss" to me here ...

Holy smokes .... according to this, Putin might make a move on Estonia.