Mid Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 After a year or so without elections if it is just a week or so to get the legal stuff sorted why not just wait? Everyone will be doing new year stuff anyway. It is hardly a time for a mass riot or for the international community to notice a week or two delay. There must be another reason for wanting Dec 23. logical and rational , see what's missing ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 PM: New govt to be formed in January 08 BREAKING NEWS (BangkokPost.com) - Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont told his Singapore counterpart Lee Hsien Loong that Thailand will form a new government by the end of January 2008.snip The Post Publishing Public Co Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammered Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 The way the timetable is laid out as set in stone and then everything has to fit to it is quite bizarre. Even to the point of rushing or not completing laws. We must be missing something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cclub75 Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 After a year or so without elections if it is just a week or so to get the legal stuff sorted why not just wait? Everyone will be doing new year stuff anyway. It is hardly a time for a mass riot or for the international community to notice a week or two delay. There must be another reason for wanting Dec 23. logical and rational , see what's missing ? Candles on the christmas tree ? No ? I believe that they're prisoners from their own trap. The "general elections", right the day after the coup, were like an umbilical cord. They were supposed to be the paramount of the coup, its perfect excuse. Its blood and its oxygen. Inside and outside the country, they have since one year amused the people, with this hypnotic red herring : general elections "as soon as possible". Repeat after me. Then, time is passing. People start to feel impatient. They need a date. Quickly. Leo Leo. Let's say 23 december. 2 advantages : it's after the King birthday (serious boost for the propaganda machine if the elections are held just after). And it's still "2007 year". 2008 would sound bad, right ? : 2 calendars year after the coup. Thats too long. And there is probably something else, under the surface, darker... The fact that actually they don't give a sxxxt about thoses elections. The scenarii has been written a long time ago. So some nasty technicalities ("oh my gosh, we need a... law in order to organize thoses damned elections in time") couldn't bother them. The whole process is a farce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 (edited) Chavalit unsure poll will be held on Dec 23 BREAKING NEWS (BangkokPost.com) - Former premier Chavalit Yongchaiyudh said Saturday he is not confident that the scheduled December 23 general election will be held as planned.He said his confidence will be restored once organic laws are completed. snip bangkokpost.com Edited September 8, 2007 by Mid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Clifton Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 After a year or so without elections if it is just a week or so to get the legal stuff sorted why not just wait? Everyone will be doing new year stuff anyway. It is hardly a time for a mass riot or for the international community to notice a week or two delay. There must be another reason for wanting Dec 23. logical and rational , see what's missing ? Candles on the christmas tree ? No ? I believe that they're prisoners from their own trap. The "general elections", right the day after the coup, were like an umbilical cord. They were supposed to be the paramount of the coup, its perfect excuse. Its blood and its oxygen. Inside and outside the country, they have since one year amused the people, with this hypnotic red herring : general elections "as soon as possible". Repeat after me. Then, time is passing. People start to feel impatient. They need a date. Quickly. Leo Leo. Let's say 23 december. 2 advantages : it's after the King birthday (serious boost for the propaganda machine if the elections are held just after). And it's still "2007 year". 2008 would sound bad, right ? : 2 calendars year after the coup. Thats too long. And there is probably something else, under the surface, darker... The fact that actually they don't give a sxxxt about thoses elections. The scenarii has been written a long time ago. So some nasty technicalities ("oh my gosh, we need a... law in order to organize thoses damned elections in time") couldn't bother them. The whole process is a farce. An even bigger farce would be for the PPP ,with it's TRT v.1.0 objectives, to get back in the saddle again and throw the country in a messy loop again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Traveller Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 From Nation website:- {note the could} Sydney - Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont Saturday told his Singapore counterpart Lee Hsien Loong that Thailand's next prime minister would take office within late January, Government Spokesman Yongyuth Maiyalarp said.During the bilateral meeting between the two prime ministers, Surayud briefed Lee about the progress of the process to return democracy to Thailand. "The Singapore prime minister asked when the next prime minister of Thailand will take office and Surayud replied that it could be late January," Yongyuth said. RegardsLink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 {note the could} would , there will definitely be a new PM soon , current incumbent has had enough .................. could , honest appraisal about a new government .............................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cclub75 Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 Let's talk about those famous "organic laws"... And you'll understand.... that we are not out of the wood... Anytime soon, regarding the organization of the elections. Right now the NLA members are killing themselves on a very specific issue : as you know the Constitution states that 50 % of the Senate will be nominated, and 50 % elected. Fair enough. But how to select thoses who can be... elected ? The NLA hardliners suggest a very interesting idea : the candidate should be -compulsory- member and... nominated by an "association" or "confederation". (Nation) Now that's democratic, right ? So my point is : the bozos of the NLA are going to loose a great amount of time working out the "details" of those famous organic laws... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 (edited) Constitution 'requires' EU debate EC chief says MoU must be approved by NLA By Supawadee Inthawong Sunday September 09, 2007 The Election Commission (EC) is required to seek approval from the National Legislative Assembly if it is to sign the memorandum of understanding (MoU) on election observation with the European Union, or the process would be unconstitutional, EC secretary-general Sutthipol Thaweechaikarn said yesterday. The commission is concerned about Article 190 of the 2007 constitution which requires agreements having a bearing on sovereignty to be debated and approved by parliament. snip bangkokpost.com Edited September 9, 2007 by Mid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britmaveric Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 23 Dec what year????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammered Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 Let's talk about those famous "organic laws"...And you'll understand.... that we are not out of the wood... Anytime soon, regarding the organization of the elections. Right now the NLA members are killing themselves on a very specific issue : as you know the Constitution states that 50 % of the Senate will be nominated, and 50 % elected. Fair enough. But how to select thoses who can be... elected ? The NLA hardliners suggest a very interesting idea : the candidate should be -compulsory- member and... nominated by an "association" or "confederation". (Nation) Now that's democratic, right ? So my point is : the bozos of the NLA are going to loose a great amount of time working out the "details" of those famous organic laws... And without the organic laws........ no election or an election that can be deemed unconstitutional. We could even get to the point where the government or CNS needs to oust its own parliament to get one in that will follow its lead. Looks like divisions between NLA, government and CNS and that is before the military reshuffle. The laws however do need putting in place even if they do turn out to be a little bias - nothing new in that even in long running democracies. It is quite frustrating at times that left hand and right hand...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John K Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 Reading all the posts this thread seems to be getting a lot of milage from seemingly nothing. I see December 23 as a fair date. There are unfinished tasks that need to be done before the elections namely the organic laws. Assuming they get done, and the political bad boys don’t make too much trouble it can happen on that date. It reminds me of the rush to get Siam Paragon open. For forming the new government in January, that makes a lot of sense too. It provides time to check and see how much damage the political bad boys have done, and also time to handoff projects in the works to the new crew. The USA has it’s elections the first Tuesday in November and they swear in the new congress January 2. Focus on the trouble makes and you will know if there are any delays coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cclub75 Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 (edited) I see December 23 as a fair date. There are unfinished tasks that need to be done before the elections namely the organic laws. Assuming they get done, and the political bad boys don’t make too much trouble it can happen on that date. It reminds me of the rush to get Siam Paragon open. Or the opening of the airport ? Of course 23 december is a fair date. However, I disagree a bit : it's not "just" about a "normal" process. Look at the debate within NLA about the organic laws. This is not a detail at all. People are confused : for them the Constitution sets everything. We had the referendum. It's done. It's wrong. The constitution sets the principles and processes. The organics laws set the details. The devil is in the details. Another example : here This guy totally senile (octogenarian !), but because he's the speaker of NLA and... obviously a very old man... this guy can intervene, whenever he fells. And he drops his ideas, like little bird shits. His idea about the 7 days max to announce results of elections could be interesting. But look at the others.... "In the afternoon, Meechai also managed to persuade the Election Commission subcommittee to give the EC the power to order a halt to any activities that the commission believed may lead to an unfair election." This guy wants the EC to control everything. And the other bozos let him talk, because djai dee of course. Voila the reality of the political process in Thailand : mediocrity at the best, no inspiration at all, no light, no courage. Nothing but senility, servility, conformism, false paternalism and cynism. Sorry for the rant, but I like this country. And I feel -a bit- desesperate. Edited September 9, 2007 by cclub75 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Clifton Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 I see December 23 as a fair date. There are unfinished tasks that need to be done before the elections namely the organic laws. Assuming they get done, and the political bad boys don’t make too much trouble it can happen on that date. It reminds me of the rush to get Siam Paragon open. Or the opening of the airport ? Of course 23 december is a fair date. However, I disagree a bit : it's not "just" about a "normal" process. Look at the debate within NLA about the organic laws. This is not a detail at all. People are confused : for them the Constitution sets everything. We had the referendum. It's done. It's wrong. The constitution sets the principles and processes. The organics laws set the details. The devil is in the details. Another example : here This guy totally senile (octogenarian !), but because he's the speaker of NLA and... obviously a very old man... this guy can intervene, whenever he fells. And he drops his ideas, like little bird shits. His idea about the 7 days max to announce results of elections could be interesting. But look at the others.... "In the afternoon, Meechai also managed to persuade the Election Commission subcommittee to give the EC the power to order a halt to any activities that the commission believed may lead to an unfair election." This guy wants the EC to control everything. And the other bozos let him talk, because djai dee of course. Voila the reality of the political process in Thailand : mediocrity at the best, no inspiration at all, no light, no courage. Nothing but senility, servility, conformism, false paternalism and cynism. Sorry for the rant, but I like this country. And I feel -a bit- desesperate. I actually prefer that idea over letting unfair/illegal activities go on until the election and THEN take measures afterwards like happened before, risking another voided election. What if the PPP is caught red handed again AND suppose they win afterwards? Why not punish illegal activities on the spot? Why should the election committee sit back and remain inactive on such issues until the election is over? Penalizing players happens as the game progresses, while it's happening on the pitch, not once it's over, you'd have to replay the match, especially when teams are loaded with known dirty players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John K Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 If you really think about it a lot of what the EC wants makes all the sense in the world. The slow process plays into the hands of the bad guys. They can cheat get In office and then it becomes like curing HIV to get them out after they are sworn in. However the number of eyes needed is staggering to watch them. So far as far as rooting out the bad guys they have done all the right things. Trying to have untainted elections is difficult. It may come down to gifts from politicians must be declared or your vote is invalid. Remove the reward for the bad behavior and the behavior will stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jai Dee Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 PMs Office Minister disagrees with MOU for EU to observe election The Prime Minister’s Office Minister, Assoc. Prof. Thirapat Serirangsan (ธีรภัทร เสรีรังสรรค์), has expressed disagreement over the drafting of the memorandum of understanding (MOU) for the European Union (EU) to observe the upcoming general election of Thailand. He reasons that foreign countries may misinterpret that Thailand could be intervened by the EU. Assoc. Prof. Thirapat says Thailand already has other international organizations that can observe the general election under the Thai law. He says the general election is an internal issue, and the Election Commission (EC) of Thailand should propose this matter to Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont, or else, the EU should propose it to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Assoc. Prof. Thirapat says he will coordinate with the EC in setting up a committee responsible for campaigning and promoting the general election. Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 10 September 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammered Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 "The UN is not my father". One remembers this little quote when an external body wanted to check on something in Thailand before. Truth is the upcoming vote is not about democracy. The PPP side will use a vast amount of vote buying linked to the use of their feudal overlord network to ensure people will vote their way. Teh Junta will use the state power to try to disrupt this and to coerce people to vote their way. An observer mission will never see the first but will see any state manipulation. Therein lies why the EU will not be overseeing any elections in any meaningful way. If they did it would not make the elections cleaner it would justy hamper one sides interference vis-a-vis the other sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshbags Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 (edited) It,s just been on channel 7 that the P.M. approves of the E.U. overseeing the elections. It was a personal interview with the P.M. Personally for me this is a good thing as no one can then accuse the government of wrongdoing and minipulation of results or influencing unfairly the outcome of the democratic voting. At the same time they will be able to observe certain vote getting tactics and highlight / expose them in an official unbiased capacity marshbags Edited September 10, 2007 by marshbags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John K Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 I agree it is a good thing. It could also help dispose of any argument Thaksin may have when extradition comes around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 Wednesday, September 12, 2007 at 05:28 Subject: /Thailand-Elections/Diplomacy/EU/ Thailand refuses to sign agreement with EU on poll-watch mission Bangkok (dpa) - Thailand has refused to sign an agreement with the European Union over sending election observers for the December 23 polls, effectively scotching the EU proposal, diplomatic sources said Wednesday.snip eux.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 Thailand nod to informal EU elections observers BANGKOK: Thailand’s election commission said yesterday it would welcome any observers the European Union wanted to send for upcoming polls, but said it would not sign a formal deal with the bloc. “The decision today is the unanimous and final decision,” said the election commission (EC) secretary general, Sutthiphon Thaveechaiyakarn. “EC members think it is not necessary to sign a memorandum of understanding as we have never signed such an agreement with any country since we were set up nine years ago.” – AFP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 PM, EC to discuss polls on Thursday Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont is expected to meet with Election Commission (EC) on Thursday to discuss the Dec. 23 general election. "EC will report to the premier on the upcoming polls, and we will ask the government to cooperate on several matters, including budget and human resources," Election Commissioner Sodsri Sattayatham said Wednesday. Mrs Sodsri also said that the EC will ask the premier for 100 million baht in organising the election, in addition to 1.9 billion baht it has received from the government. She explained that more than 80,000 election officials nationwide get only 100 baht a day, which is lower than the minimum wage. Continued here: http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=122286 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
younghusband Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 (edited) "The UN is not my father". One remembers this little quote when an external body wanted to check on something in Thailand before. Truth is the upcoming vote is not about democracy. The PPP side will use a vast amount of vote buying linked to the use of their feudal overlord network to ensure people will vote their way. Teh Junta will use the state power to try to disrupt this and to coerce people to vote their way. An observer mission will never see the first but will see any state manipulation. Therein lies why the EU will not be overseeing any elections in any meaningful way. If they did it would not make the elections cleaner it would justy hamper one sides interference vis-a-vis the other sides. So,let me get this straight, the reason that the election will not be scrutinised by fair and independent observers is that the junta's efforts to coerce, bully and bribe their way to its desired result -which interestingly you seem to accept as a given - will be disrupted by external supervision.On the other hand what you confusingly call the "feudal overlord network" is too sophisticated and subtle for these doltish European experts to understand, and the TRT influenced new parties will manipulate the electoral process in a way that cannot be monitored by such ignorant foreigners.Is that about it? Perhaps there is a simpler explanation particularly since the EU is a highly experienced and sophisticated monitor of countless elections.Could it be that the junta is just nervous about independent scrutiny of the Thai peoples intentions at the ballot box? Edited October 4, 2007 by younghusband Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 For all their sophistication they are there primarily to monitor government's involvement in the elections. And as Hammered pointed out this creates unlevel playing field as both sides will try to cheat by all means available. There's no chance that EU monitors will detect money changing hands between PPP financiers and MPs, and between MPs and canvassers and so on. There'a about a billion dollars do be spent in this election, and the monitors would have no idea whatsoever. Is is fair to cheats on the other side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george Posted October 4, 2007 Author Share Posted October 4, 2007 This topic continues here: December election to be held as scheduled http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=145984 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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