2 hours ago, Effective altruism said:

How do you intend to "impose" a solution on both parties?

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Racist Jew hating talking points.

Also Palestinian Arabs as we know them today (a very recent identity group actually) certainly didn't exist in any form in Israel 2000 years ago.

Wikipedia: The Palestine region has been continuously inhabited for approximately 1.5 million years, containing some of the earliest evidence of human migration out of Africa. The earliest known human remains in the area were discovered in Ubeidiya, south of the Sea of Galilee.

You're not one of those DNA freaks, are you?

3 hours ago, Evil Penevil said:

Zionist lobbyists are more likely chuckling to themselves. Massie lost the Republican primary election for his House seat on May 19. Massie got 45% of the vote, his opponent got 55%. He will be out of office on Jan. 3, 2027.

Massie is a prime example of the intersection of the left and right on the issue of Israel and Jews. On motions relating to Israel or antisemitism, Massie voted with the most left-wing Democrats rather than Republicans.

A plausible case could be made Massie is the most antisemitic member of the U.S. Congress. In 2022, he had been the only member of the House of Representatives to vote against a resolution condemning the rise of antisemitism in the U.S. and the world. The resolution passed by a vote of 420 in favor, one (Massie) against.

https://time.com/6178902/thomas-massie-anti-semitism-libertarian/

Know nothing about Massie except what I read here. However, there must be Congressmen appalled by Israel's wars but just too cowardly to speak out.

Time to cut the umbilical cord.

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

But you obviously want the Palestinians to have a state but not Israelis.

What would be the root of that hypocrisy? Hmmm.

I have not heard that opinion on AN except from me. I have days when I think Jews have lost the right to Israel because of the suffering they have continually imposed on their neighbours...since 1909.

Not right at this immediate moment. Both deserve a state. Palesine should be equal and contiguous. Israelis need to suck it up.

35 minutes ago, unblocktheplanet said:

Wikipedia: The Palestine region has been continuously inhabited for approximately 1.5 million years, containing some of the earliest evidence of human migration out of Africa. The earliest known human remains in the area were discovered in Ubeidiya, south of the Sea of Galilee.

You're not one of those DNA freaks, are you?

Straw man garbage

30 minutes ago, unblocktheplanet said:

I have not heard that opinion on AN except from me. I have days when I think Jews have lost the right to Israel because of the suffering they have continually imposed on their neighbours...since 1909.

Not right at this immediate moment. Both deserve a state. Palesine should be equal and contiguous. Israelis need to suck it up.

So Palestinian terrorists imposed no pain?

6 hours ago, ronnie50 said:

I think most people demonstrating want the two-state-solution to actually happen. Israel and the USA slap anyone down that tries to push that forward. Instead, it's pretty clear that Israel intends to annex all Palestinian territories (and maybe even part of southern Lebanon now). With Trump backing him Netanyahu will probably move quickly - while he can.

No they want Palestinian river to the sea.

2 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

I have not heard that opinion on AN except from me. I have days when I think Jews have lost the right to Israel because of the suffering they have continually imposed on their neighbours...since 1909.

Not right at this immediate moment. Both deserve a state. Palesine should be equal and contiguous. Israelis need to suck it up.

Hopefully Elon Musk can help set them up on Mars.
Potential to cause trouble on Earth would then be limited.

16 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Talking of meetings , how did your recent meeting go at the Four seasons hotel ?

15 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

When you call out Israel’s actions, the denial is straightforward Gaslighting.

It’s always denial, deflection or you’re called antisemitic.

The problem for Israel now is that the world is watching, and Israel has been judged and found wanting.

Those supporting Israel (which appears to be many Jews, Israelis and the occasional Goyim) do Israel and yourselves no favour.

Trying to Gaslight doesn’t work. I could understand and respect you more if you admitted it and simply say you don’t stand with Israel in its current form.

I respect @spidermike007 who as a Jew is quite forward at calling out Israel and who posted a very eloquent piece about confusing criticism of Israel with antisemitism. Only to have his very text demonstrated most ineloquently by @Eloquent pilgrim who called him antisemitic.

When I pointed out there was nothing in that text, surprise surprise, I’m called antisemitic too.

You just demonstrate and validate the problem.

Thanks. Nothing like having an opinion proven by a dogmatic fool.

15 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Thanks. Nothing like having an opinion proven by a dogmatic fool.

Did the announced meeting at the four seasons occur or not ?

1 hour ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Did the announced meeting at the four seasons occur or not ?

The dinner at the Brasserie Palmier was superb. I highly recommend the La Grande Seafood tower. Lovely food. Great company. Try it sometime soon.

6 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Citizens acting on behalf of foreign powers is nothing new.

AIPAC primarily lobbies for policies that favour a foreign state.

And U.S. citizens have that right. Just like some US Citizens are advocating for Palestine. I

US Campaign for Palestinian Rights (USCPR). 501(c)4

Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP) 501(c)(3)

American Muslims for Palestine (AMP) 501(c)(3)

There is also:

There are many U.S.-based nonprofits and advocacy organizations that focus on the interests, policies, or welfare of specific foreign countries, ethnic diasporas, or international causes. A few examples:

Country/Region	Organization	Notes
Armenia	Armenian National Committee of America	Advocates for U.S. policies supportive of Armenia and Armenian Americans.
Armenia	Armenian Assembly of America	Promotes U.S.-Armenia relations and Armenian issues.
Cuba	Cuban American National Foundation	Advocates on U.S.-Cuba policy and Cuban-American concerns.
Cuba	Alliance for Cuba Engagement and Respect	Advocates for changes to U.S. policy toward Cuba.
Ireland	Ancient Order of Hibernians	Has historically advocated on issues affecting Ireland and Northern Ireland.
Greece	American Hellenic Institute	Advocates on U.S.-Greece and U.S.-Cyprus issues.
Taiwan	Formosan Association for Public Affairs	Advocates for Taiwan-related issues in U.S. policy.

Edited June 10Jun 10 by Effective altruism

3 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

Here we go again, call someone antisemitic, its tiresome

Not nearly as tiresome as reading the same anti-Jewish tropes and slurs that have been thrown around for 2,000 years. The details change over the centuries but the underlying hatred remains the same.

The Russian Czar's secret police and the German Nazis claimed the Elders of Zion were trying to dominate national governments; today both the woke left and hard right claim AIPAC is doing the same thing.

In centuries past, Jews were accused of murdering non-Jewish children to obtain their blood for rituals; today Israeli Jews are accused of murdering Palestinian children to obtain Palestinian land. "Genocide" has replaced "Christ killer" as the main anti-Jewish slur.

In the past, Jew haters yelled "Death to the Jews!" during pogroms; today anti-Zionists yell :"Death to the IDF!" at rock conserts and street demonstrations. The Nazi chant of "Blut und boden" (Blood and soil) is now "From the River to the Sea." Podcasts, YouTube videos, social media accounts and Web sites of "influencers" have taken over the anti-Jewish propaganda of the Third Reich.

Modern antisemitism is simply age-old Jew-hating tropes wearing trendy new outfits.

And that is the very definition of TIRESOME.

19 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

I respect @spidermike007 who as a Jew is quite forward at calling out Israel and who posted a very eloquent piece about confusing criticism of Israel with antisemitism. Only to have his very text demonstrated most ineloquently by @Eloquent pilgrim who called him antisemitic.

When I pointed out there was nothing in that text, surprise surprise, I’m called antisemitic too.

You just demonstrate and validate the problem.

Oh look, @spidermike007 has a new fawning underling, swooning over his fantasy fabrication from 25 years ago; such a privileged to witness this blossoming bromance. Have you compared keffiyehs yet ?

7 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Oh look, @spidermike007 has a new fawning underling, swooning over his fantasy fabrication from 25 years ago; such a privileged to witness this blossoming bromance. Have you compared keffiyehs yet ?

Probably quite difficult for a man with your level of self-esteem to appreciate the possibility of one man complimenting another, or one forum member supporting another.

My heart goes out to you. I truly hope things improve for you.

22 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Probably quite difficult for a man with your level of self-esteem to appreciate the possibility of one man complimenting another, or one forum member supporting another.

My heart goes out to you. I truly hope things improve for you.

Many thanks for your good wishes, much appreciated; and I am delighted to see that this touching bromance is not just one-sided. Best wishes to you both for further collaboration and mutual admiration; it’s truly heartwarming.

19 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

When you call out Israel’s actions, the denial is straightforward Gaslighting.

It’s always denial, deflection or you’re called antisemitic.

The problem for Israel now is that the world is watching, and Israel has been judged and found wanting.

Those supporting Israel (which appears to be many Jews, Israelis and the occasional Goyim) do Israel and yourselves no favour.

Trying to Gaslight doesn’t work. I could understand and respect you more if you admitted it and simply say you don’t stand with Israel in its current form.

I respect @spidermike007 who as a Jew is quite forward at calling out Israel and who posted a very eloquent piece about confusing criticism of Israel with antisemitism. Only to have his very text demonstrated most ineloquently by @Eloquent pilgrim who called him antisemitic.

When I pointed out there was nothing in that text, surprise surprise, I’m called antisemitic too.

You just demonstrate and validate the problem.

Obsessive extemist "anti-Zionist" Israel demonizers always highly value Jews who give them cover. It's called Jew washing. I've explained before why that person's black and white description of criticism of Israel is extremely simple minded and does not reflect what is actually happening in the world today especially online.

6 hours ago, Tourist2 said:

Hopefully Elon Musk can help set them up on Mars.
Potential to cause trouble on Earth would then be limited.

So to you the only thing Jews have contributed to civilization over thousands of years is about causing trouble. Quelle surprise.

Yeah it was big trouble for the operators of the torture racks of the Spanish Inquisition to keep those puppies operating properly.

59 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I've explained before why that person's black and white description of criticism of Israel is extremely simple minded and does not reflect what is actually happening in the world today especially online.

Does Israel really have the "right to exist" with decades of conflict?

How many years of conflict and apartheid are acceptable in your mind to keep fighting for their "right to exist" ?

And there's no guarantee, after all these endless years of fighting, that it will ever be a "safe haven".

At what point do you acknowledge that it's a failed project?

3 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

The dinner at the Brasserie Palmier was superb. I highly recommend the La Grande Seafood tower. Lovely food. Great company. Try it sometime soon.

Who did you go with ?

1 hour ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Oh look, @spidermike007 has a new fawning underling, swooning over his fantasy fabrication from 25 years ago; such a privileged to witness this blossoming bromance. Have you compared keffiyehs yet ?

Posting at your usual level of intelligence, about as useful as a chocolate teapot.

I note you didn’t point out any antisemitic comment in my challenge.

At school we were taught “ Engage brain before opening mouth”, it’s an adage I would recommend wholeheartedly to you.

2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Posting at your usual level of intelligence, about as useful as a chocolate teapot.

I note you didn’t point out any antisemitic comment in my challenge.

At school we were taught “ Engage brain before opening mouth”, it’s an adage I would recommend wholeheartedly to you.

My favorite teacher advised don't be a pompous ass.

9 hours ago, Jingthing said:

So Palestinian terrorists imposed no pain?

One can't quantify suffering, Jing. Of course, Hamas and perhaps Hezbollah (don't know enough to comment) have inflicted suffering on ordinary Israelis.

But it would be rather hard to say that 1% of Israelis killed by terrorism deserved 70,000 deaths and untold injuries.

9 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Straw man garbage

FACT. So you're not one of those DNA freaks, eh? Who belongs where and all that.

9 hours ago, Jingthing said:

No they want Palestinian river to the sea.

As do Israelis. That's why we're talking about solutions here, not blame, no accusations.

I am beginning to think Tourist2 is right.

The word "Jew" is so vague as to hardly mean anything.

The Arab Jews of Algeria!

3 hours ago, Evil Penevil said:

Not nearly as tiresome as reading the same anti-Jewish tropes and slurs that have been thrown around for 2,000 years. The details change over the centuries but the underlying hatred remains the same.

The Russian Czar's secret police and the German Nazis claimed the Elders of Zion were trying to dominate national governments; today both the woke left and hard right claim AIPAC is doing the same thing.

In centuries past, Jews were accused of murdering non-Jewish children to obtain their blood for rituals; today Israeli Jews are accused of murdering Palestinian children to obtain Palestinian land. "Genocide" has replaced "Christ killer" as the main anti-Jewish slur.

In the past, Jew haters yelled "Death to the Jews!" during pogroms; today anti-Zionists yell :"Death to the IDF!" at rock conserts and street demonstrations. The Nazi chant of "Blut und boden" (Blood and soil) is now "From the River to the Sea." Podcasts, YouTube videos, social media accounts and Web sites of "influencers" have taken over the anti-Jewish propaganda of the Third Reich.

Modern antisemitism is simply age-old Jew-hating tropes wearing trendy new outfits.

And that is the very definition of TIRESOME.

Ev, I'm not Jewish so maybe my opinion doesn't mean much. But do Jews (and the rest of us) really need to pay attention to antisemitism unless it results in violence? Do you believe calling out antisemitism impacts violent acts against Jews?

You can talk about history and the persecution that has been done to uncountable groups of victims for every conceivable excuse. But bringing them up has absolutely no effect on the antisemitism of the present which may, or may not, have its roots in historical antisemitism.

Let's stick to the present and present solutions. I mean, will Jews ever be feel safe in Israel or anywhere? I submit, probably not. The roots of fear of the next pogrom are probably too deep.

Living in fear is a lousy way to live. And results in retaliation of enemies real and perceived and those that haven't happened yet.

12 minutes ago, unblocktheplanet said:

As do Israelis. That's why we're talking about solutions here, not blame, no accusations.

That's especially rich coming from you.

You have offered no solutions except that Israel should commit suicide.

16 minutes ago, unblocktheplanet said:

FACT. So you're not one of those DNA freaks, eh? Who belongs where and all that.

Abusive idiocy.

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

That's especially rich coming from you.

You have offered no solutions except that Israel should commit suicide.

Bull, I have suggested return to the 1948 or at least 1967 borders, a binational or two-state solution. Do you have other ideas? You have not expressed them so far.

You may cry, but just be happy the people running the show are currently running a liberal agenda. I wouldn't have anywhere near the tolerance for idiots. Not anywhere near.