No More Dependent Extension Of Stay If The Host Foreigner Has A Retirement Extension Of Stay Permit

[TakingAVacation]

I suppose the authorities only want farang to visit the country, spend some money and <deleted> off again...

...

You're catching on.........

[wolfmanjack]

All the changes are for a reason…A Deterrent

let me challenge this in a devils advocate type of way. How about maybe assuming that the changes were made in the interests in fairness and equity?

While I disagree with the lack of grandfathering in the rules, why should two retired foreigners get in on a two for the price of one deal which essentially the 'old' rules allowed? Under the old rules as I understand it, two married foreigners could on a combined income of 800K (ie 400K each essentially) while an individual applying had to stump up the entire amount himself....IS this fair?

Anyway, while I don't agree with what has happened, maybe it is more productive to explore the possible motives of why things happened...that don't involve people ending up accusing people of xenaphobia etc etc. Understanding the motives allows a higher chance of redress...if that is what you are looking for.

Samran,

Maybe you are right about trying to bring about fairness.

That brings up the argument of how much does it cost for a married couple to live in thailand. It would be fair to require the 800,000 for the original applicant plus an additional amount per rider just like many other countries do. After all the wife does not have to rent a separate house or pay separate utilities.

[tim77]

ONE QUESTION? Sunbelt really dropped the ball after making their OP.

Why didnt Sunbelt send a lawyer to the Immigration office today and get a complete explanation of the NEW RULES? Since they reprted this was in effect as of Sept. 1,2007...wouldnt the officer in charge have all the details...even if the law hasnt been published in the Gazette? Just my opinion...I hope I dont get booted off the TV forum for being honest. ???

I think that lawyers from Sunbelt are at immigration on a regular basis. And, I am sure that Sunbelt understands how important this information is to members of this forum and that Sunbelt will share information as and when they can.

I suspect that Sunbelt also took some risk in disclosing this information to us before it was officially released and I think we should be grateful to them for their assistance.

Edited September 3, 2007 by tim77

[cclub75]

JaiGuru, under the circumstances and since your linking to a government site please provide urls for your data. I'm not doubting you but for me, in BKK, the search system keeps failing {telling me a cgi file is missing} links fail etc. This may be a /eng/ problem, who knows. By the by there has been no census since 2000 so there's nothing 'missing'.

The wole "census" issue is totally flawed.

However, it would be very easy to have hard, reals datas.

From Immigration services for instance.

Don't tell me that they can't sum'up the total of retirement visas for instance issued per year, on a national scale...

And what about the holders of work permit ? That's another good indicator of foreign "visibility" in the Kingdom...

Or the number per year, national scale, of mariages between foreign/thai nationals.... ?

The problem is : thoses datas are not published...

The question is : why ?

I think it's very obvious : the figures are going up. Foreigners are becoming way too "visible".

The thai authorities would feel ashamed to released them to the thai public (with the good old nationalism around).

Hence, thoses visa changes... But they won't explain the real motive behind (to avoid confrontation with foreign countries).

[Sunbelt Asia]

Relating back to the original post, and to related changes that have been made since last year,

IT IS NOT SUPPOSED TO MAKE SENSE. THIS IS THAILAND!

Conspiracy theories are fun but futile. There is no organized conspiracy because 'they' don't do such things here to farang. The powers that be mumble, fumble, make arbitrary, senseless changes, pass laws they don't enforce, and enforce laws they never passed. Which is all the more reason to get the He11 out of Dodge.

Or you can interpret these proposed ungazzetted changes with a mai bpen rai attitude. Unless you can meet the requirements they give you the next time you go to immigration, it doesn't matter what the law ever said. Never mind.

Spot On PB, once people grasp that fact and stop thinking like a 'farang' - everything falls into place and living in LOS becomes a pleasant, but sometimes chaotic, experience.

The Immigration staff did get the announcement last Friday that new amendments will be issued and published in the Royal Gazette. Some good news as it appears some officers are waiting to enforce the dependent extension of stay until they get the official version even though it states in the letter" it will be effective immediately." Last September we had several different versions and interpretations of the Police Order and even some U-turns on policy. Expect the same this year with the new amendments... confusion and some U-turns on policy along the way.

Visa changes does make life in Thailand more of a experience. Anybody up to writing a blog?

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[gdhm]

Why do you think people are leaving England in mad rushes? Do you think Thailand wants a growing population of people who won't assimilate and choose bread over rice?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news

Deep down inside all you peace-loving, hug-your-black-friend, egalitarian, Cartesian common sense immigrants are just as racist as any of them. It's an ongoing war for cultural sovereignty and preservation....... .

Please kindly keep your generalisations to yourself.

Oh sorry, you are not generalising you have accused us ALL "all you peace-loving, hug-your-black-friend, egalitarian, Cartesian common sense immigrants are just as racist as any of them"

Speaking for myself, I consider it highly inappropriate to make such a racist slur on so many members. Some may be racist, but to suggest all are, is nothing short of outrageous.

And NO I am NOT racist, nor do I wish to impose my own ideals and culture on anybody in their own land (or mine). I did not wish to when living in Spain for 4 years and I do not wish to now I am living in Thailand.

Your comments about bread and rice. Pathetic!!

Do I care when in UK, Spain or Thailand if Chinese or Thais OR ANYBODY eat rice and noodles and not fish and chips, and do you really think Thais care about what I eat (unless I insult them for what they like and chose to eat). Suggest you look in any KFC or Pizza restaurant in Thailand. You will find large numbers of Thais enjoying western style food and you will see many Westerners enjoying Thai food in Thai food only restaurants.

But I am "off topic" (as was much of what you have said) so I will close.

Dave

Edited September 3, 2007 by gdhm

[Orita]

Am I interpreting the new rules right?

A legally married couple where both are Non-Thai and the spouse is below 50 years of age does not qualify anymore, even if the financial requirements (2 x 800K) could be fulfilled, because the spouse is below the age of 50.

Does that mean, that after getting 3 consecutive retirement visa we have to leave the country because my legal foreign wife is not 50?

Thanks for any clarifications in this urgent matter.

[Sturbuc]

As of Sept 1st, no more dependent extension of stay permits will be issued if the foreigner has a extension of stay based on retirement. This includes any “grandfather” cases where the dependent applicant had the extension of stay before Sept 1st 2007.

Seems to me pretty crazy. I might not be affected now but in case i'll move to Thailand with my family - will my children and wife been kicked out sometimes?

[Lite Beer]

Am I interpreting the new rules right?

A legally married couple where both are Non-Thai and the spouse is below 50 years of age does not qualify anymore, even if the financial requirements (2 x 800K) could be fulfilled, because the spouse is below the age of 50.

Does that mean, that after getting 3 consecutive retirement visa we have to leave the country because my legal foreign wife is not 50?

Thanks for any clarifications in this urgent matter.

Your wife will have to get a Non O Visa and do border runs. It Is doable but not as conveniant as before.

Yes it stinks.

[Orita]

Am I interpreting the new rules right?

A legally married couple where both are Non-Thai and the spouse is below 50 years of age does not qualify anymore, even if the financial requirements (2 x 800K) could be fulfilled, because the spouse is below the age of 50.

Does that mean, that after getting 3 consecutive retirement visa we have to leave the country because my legal foreign wife is not 50?

Thanks for any clarifications in this urgent matter.

Your wife will have to get a Non O Visa and do border runs. It Is doable but not as conveniant as before.

Yes it stinks.

Thanks for the quick answer. This is really bad news. To include existing visa holders in those new rule changes is outrages. I am certain we are not alone. Based on the old visa regulation, we have invested in a condominium, two cars and a bike, and are forced to give all this up now at a substantial loss. While it is always possible to adjust to new

financial requirements, there is absolutely no way for my wife to qualify due to the minimum age of 50.

Potential investors into real estate and foreign couples seeking retirement in Thailand can only be warned. Rules in Thailand are changed at a whim, and the fact that you get a visa today does absolutely not mean you will get a visa tomorrow.

Shame on the government to treat retires with so little respect and courtesy.

[Sunbelt Asia]

ONE QUESTION? Sunbelt really dropped the ball after making their OP.

Why didnt Sunbelt send a lawyer to the Immigration office today and get a complete explanation of the NEW RULES? Since they reprted this was in effect as of Sept. 1,2007...wouldnt the officer in charge have all the details...even if the law hasnt been published in the Gazette? Just my opinion...I hope I dont get booted off the TV forum for being honest. ???

I think that lawyers from Sunbelt are at immigration on a regular basis. And, I am sure that Sunbelt understands how important this information is to members of this forum and that Sunbelt will share information as and when they can.

I suspect that Sunbelt also took some risk in disclosing this information to us before it was officially released and I think we should be grateful to them for their assistance.

Thanks. Always a big risk in coming out with breaking news. Last thing I want to report is inaccurate information. At Sunbelt, we have always taken the position of being the main forum sponsor highly plus it would be very bad for our business, if we were incorrect with our posts. People don't like high stress!

We don't EVER release news unless I’m VERY confident it comes from a reliable and senior Immigration person. I had different lawyers call a number of sources last Friday to confirm this letter and unfortunately it checked out as being “spot on.” Only then at midnight did I release it, after being 100% positive. The news still stands as others have confirmed. Any change and we'll update the Thaivisa readers.

I like to add, last year, I felt sometimes our firm was used as a guinea pig to see how big of outcry the public had to the news before official news was released and interpreted. (Such as the three entries in a 6 month period versus 90 days in a 6 month period) As George can confirm, Immigration does read Thaivisa.com. Who will ever know what happen last year as we were told by a number of top people, it will be three entries and then it became 90 days. We were apologized to by the Immigration staff but it was our neck that was on the line. On the other hand, we did get a lot of breaking news out to the Thaivisa members that was "spot on" and this never changed.

I hope this is the case now, that Immigration will "grandfather" or not change the dependent extension of stays. I personally feel this new policy will be bad for Thailand. IMHO, a number of older husbands with foreign wives will simply leave Thailand.

This policy however still stands to be released in the Royal Gazette.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Jingthing]

Potential investors into real estate and foreign couples seeking retirement in Thailand can only be warned. Rules in Thailand are changed at a whim, and the fact that you get a visa today does absolutely not mean you will get a visa tomorrow.

Bravo! Exactly! Thai real estate developers: get off your keisters and FIX THIS or your golden goose is cooked!

[Lite Beer]

ONE QUESTION? Sunbelt really dropped the ball after making their OP.

Why didnt Sunbelt send a lawyer to the Immigration office today and get a complete explanation of the NEW RULES? Since they reprted this was in effect as of Sept. 1,2007...wouldnt the officer in charge have all the details...even if the law hasnt been published in the Gazette? Just my opinion...I hope I dont get booted off the TV forum for being honest. ???

I think that lawyers from Sunbelt are at immigration on a regular basis. And, I am sure that Sunbelt understands how important this information is to members of this forum and that Sunbelt will share information as and when they can.

I suspect that Sunbelt also took some risk in disclosing this information to us before it was officially released and I think we should be grateful to them for their assistance.

Thanks. Always a big risk in coming out with breaking news. Last thing I want to report is inaccurate information. At Sunbelt, we have always taken the position of being the main forum sponsor highly plus it would be very bad for our business, if we were incorrect with our posts. People don't like high stress!

We don't EVER release news unless I’m VERY confident it comes from a reliable and senior Immigration person. I had different lawyers call a number of sources last Friday to confirm this letter and unfortunately it checked out as being “spot on.” Only then at midnight did I release it, after being 100% positive. The news still stands as others have confirmed. Any change and we'll update the Thaivisa readers.

I like to add, last year, I felt sometimes our firm was used as a guinea pig to see how big of outcry the public had to the news before official news was released and interpreted. (Such as the three entries in a 6 month period versus 90 days in a 6 month period) As George can confirm, Immigration does read Thaivisa.com. Who will ever know what happen last year as we were told by a number of top people, it will be three entries and then it became 90 days. We were apologized to by the Immigration staff but it was our neck that was on the line. On the other hand, we did get a lot of breaking news out to the Thaivisa members that was "spot on" and this never changed.

I hope this is the case now, that Immigration will "grandfather" or not change the dependent extension of stays. I personally feel this new policy will be bad for Thailand. IMHO, a number of older husbands with foreign wives will simply leave Thailand.

This policy however still stands to be released in the Royal Gazette.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Every decent person hopes they recind this as it is unhuman.

BTW It does not affect me.

[Lite Beer]

Am I interpreting the new rules right?

A legally married couple where both are Non-Thai and the spouse is below 50 years of age does not qualify anymore, even if the financial requirements (2 x 800K) could be fulfilled, because the spouse is below the age of 50.

Does that mean, that after getting 3 consecutive retirement visa we have to leave the country because my legal foreign wife is not 50?

Thanks for any clarifications in this urgent matter.

Your wife will have to get a Non O Visa and do border runs. It Is doable but not as conveniant as before.

Yes it stinks.

Thanks for the quick answer. This is really bad news. To include existing visa holders in those new rule changes is outrages. I am certain we are not alone. Based on the old visa regulation, we have invested in a condominium, two cars and a bike, and are forced to give all this up now at a substantial loss. While it is always possible to adjust to new

financial requirements, there is absolutely no way for my wife to qualify due to the minimum age of 50.

Potential investors into real estate and foreign couples seeking retirement in Thailand can only be warned. Rules in Thailand are changed at a whim, and the fact that you get a visa today does absolutely not mean you will get a visa tomorrow.

Shame on the government to treat retires with so little respect and courtesy.

Hopefully for you and others they will think again. If not have a look at the Philipines, they really want people like you.

[brahmburgers]

Yes, the most valuable question and answer would be, "Why?" Why did they make this new regulation? And who wanted it?

this is a lively thread, possibly the fastest growing thus far on T.visa. correct me if I'm wrong, but I would venture that it's the hold-over legislators from the Thaksin era who decided on this ill-conceived new stricture. Well, maybe not even a quorum, probably just a few old boys in the back room drinking watered down whiskey and having a good chuckle. I rather doubt it's the junta. They're too busy looking over their shoulders for Thaksin's ghost, or getting to the gold club on time, or keeping the mia noi content.

We haven't seemed to have heard as much from those farang couples who wil be directly affected - as we have from all other farang (myself included) who arent' directly affected. Let's hope we don't get a Samak-type in there who might enjoy shafting it to farang for the grandstand effect and peals of laughter from his inner circle. or worse still, a hyper-xenophobic Zimbabwe-type edict that simply takes over whatever it wants in the name of race and nationalism.

[dkstoney]

Why do you think people are leaving England in mad rushes? Do you think Thailand wants a growing population of people who won't assimilate and choose bread over rice?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news

Deep down inside all you peace-loving, hug-your-black-friend, egalitarian, Cartesian common sense immigrants are just as racist as any of them. It's an ongoing war for cultural sovereignty and preservation....... .

Please kindly keep your generalisations to yourself.

Oh sorry, you are not generalising you have accused us ALL "all you peace-loving, hug-your-black-friend, egalitarian, Cartesian common sense immigrants are just as racist as any of them"

Speaking for myself, I consider it highly inappropriate to make such a racist slur on so many members. Some may be racist, but to suggest all are, is nothing short of outrageous.

And NO I am NOT racist, nor do I wish to impose my own ideals and culture on anybody in their own land (or mine). I did not wish to when living in Spain for 4 years and I do not wish to now I am living in Thailand.

Your comments about bread and rice. Pathetic!!

Do I care when in UK, Spain or Thailand if Chinese or Thais OR ANYBODY eat rice and noodles and not fish and chips, and do you really think Thais care about what I eat (unless I insult them for what they like and chose to eat). Suggest you look in any KFC or Pizza restaurant in Thailand. You will find large numbers of Thais enjoying western style food and you will see many Westerners enjoying Thai food in Thai food only restaurants.

But I am "off topic" (as was much of what you have said) so I will close.

Dave

"All you" is a common term of generality from which you or anyone are free to exclude yourself. Bread and rice is merely as jest at the simple differences which range to far greater degrees. Do you work for Foxx News? You certainly react like a pundit and seem to me to be a bit sensitive. Please accept my apologies for your misunderstanding.

Judging by your reaction, I take it you are a multiculturalist and probably quite proudly. The gist of my post has to do with the fact that, like anyone, you're* proud of who you* are and where you* come from. It's racial protectionism and homogeneity that are the roots of most people in the world. That's why there are differences like eating with your* fingers or using chopsticks or sticking your* pinky up in the air when drinking tea. When people don't do the things that we're* used to it naturally irks us*. Well, not you, because you're so worldly and such a nice, well-balanced fellow.

The point is that most people (and this is a serious generalization) don't like change. They like the things they know. They like their routines without disruption or influence. They look back on the past with nostalgia and say things like, "Those were the good ol' days." As a matter of fact, some people experience total nervous breakdowns over things like the position of a telephone on their desk. And that's the extent of racism I'm alluding to--not lynchmobs and burning crosses--something a little more subtle than what you've perceived. It has to do with cultural identity which in this world, as I'm sure you've noticed being well-travelled and all, is synonomous with about 95% of the world.

*=the editorial you, we, & us. Everyone feel free to exclude yourselves.

by the above post I'd reckon brahmburgers gets it.

Edited September 3, 2007 by dkstoney

[Orita]

We haven't seemed to have heard as much from those farang couples who wil be directly affected - as we have from all other farang (myself included) who arent' directly affected. ....

Well, yes, we are one of those couples directly affected.

As I have mentioned in earlier, based on the old regulations, we have chosen Thailand as our retirement home, have invested in property and vehicles, and now will not qualify any longer, purely on age requirements of my spouse.

We will definitely not go with any loopholes such as endlessly running the tourist visa and extension circuits. Basically it comes down to this: We will have to sell out property, vehicles and relocate, even we really like it here.

We feel, we have been taken for a ride by the authorities. We have been issued three consecutive retirement visas and now, suddenly, the new rules forces legally married foreign retirement couples out of the country, since now both have to be over 50 years old.

We, perhaps like others have been lured with the impression, that retires are welcome,and Investment into property was desirable. This is obviously not the so. We deeply regret that we fell for this trap.

Local embassies should warn potential retirement and investment applicants, as to avoid any pitfalls. Who in his right mind would purchase property in Thailand, if it is in no way certain, that one is continuously given a visa to remain in Thailand to utilize ones own property. This is really outrages. Warnings should be posted on every web site offering real estate for sell in Thailand.

[Lite Beer]

Why do you think people are leaving England in mad rushes? Do you think Thailand wants a growing population of people who won't assimilate and choose bread over rice?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news

Deep down inside all you peace-loving, hug-your-black-friend, egalitarian, Cartesian common sense immigrants are just as racist as any of them. It's an ongoing war for cultural sovereignty and preservation....... .

Please kindly keep your generalisations to yourself.

Oh sorry, you are not generalising you have accused us ALL "all you peace-loving, hug-your-black-friend, egalitarian, Cartesian common sense immigrants are just as racist as any of them"

Speaking for myself, I consider it highly inappropriate to make such a racist slur on so many members. Some may be racist, but to suggest all are, is nothing short of outrageous.

And NO I am NOT racist, nor do I wish to impose my own ideals and culture on anybody in their own land (or mine). I did not wish to when living in Spain for 4 years and I do not wish to now I am living in Thailand.

Your comments about bread and rice. Pathetic!!

Do I care when in UK, Spain or Thailand if Chinese or Thais OR ANYBODY eat rice and noodles and not fish and chips, and do you really think Thais care about what I eat (unless I insult them for what they like and chose to eat). Suggest you look in any KFC or Pizza restaurant in Thailand. You will find large numbers of Thais enjoying western style food and you will see many Westerners enjoying Thai food in Thai food only restaurants.

But I am "off topic" (as was much of what you have said) so I will close.

Dave

"All you" is a common term of generality from which you or anyone are free to exclude yourself. Bread and rice is merely as jest at the simple differences which range to far greater degrees. Do you work for Foxx News? You certainly react like a pundit and seem to me to be a bit sensitive. Please accept my apologies for your misunderstanding.

Judging by your reaction, I take it you are a multiculturalist and probably quite proudly. The gist of my post has to do with the fact that, like anyone, you're* proud of who you* are and where you* come from. It's racial protectionism and homogeneity that are the roots of most people in the world. That's why there are differences like eating with your* fingers or using chopsticks or sticking your* pinky up in the air when drinking tea. When people don't do the things that we're* used to it naturally irks us*. Well, not you, because you're so worldly and such a nice, well-balanced fellow.

The point is that most people (and this is a serious generalization) don't like change. They like the things they know. They like their routines without disruption or influence. They look back on the past with nostalgia and say things like, "Those were the good ol' days." As a matter of fact, some people experience total nervous breakdowns over things like the position of a telephone on their desk. And that's the extent of racism I'm alluding to--not lynchmobs and burning crosses--something a little more subtle than what you've perceived. It has to do with cultural identity which in this world, as I'm sure you've noticed being well-travelled and all, is synonomous with about 95% of the world.

*=the editorial you, we, & us. Everyone feel free to exclude yourselves.

by the above post I'd reckon brahmburgers gets it.

No comment needed.

Edited September 3, 2007 by Lite Beer

[Mobi]

Johpa, PM Mobi. He can certainly advise you on ways to spend 40,000 Baht here.

Right now, I'm struggling to keep my monthly outgoings under 300K!

But this is off topic - so no flames please

[Sateev]

The point is that most people (and this is a serious generalization) don't like change. They like the things they know. They like their routines without disruption or influence. They look back on the past with nostalgia and say things like, "Those were the good ol' days." As a matter of fact, some people experience total nervous breakdowns over things like the position of a telephone on their desk. And that's the extent of racism I'm alluding to--not lynchmobs and burning crosses--something a little more subtle than what you've perceived. It has to do with cultural identity which in this world, as I'm sure you've noticed being well-travelled and all, is synonomous with about 95% of the world.

*=the editorial you, we, & us. Everyone feel free to exclude yourselves.

by the above post I'd reckon brahmburgers gets it.

Although your style makes it difficult to sympathize with your view, I find more than a shred of truth and resonance in it.

People prefer to be around people who share their values, and, particularly their sensitivities. Where people go wrong is when they assume, by your race, that you do NOT share these things. This, afterall, is what Simon43 has been tiptoing around for the past three days: Thai-a-nization.

People who try to express this preference for cultural sameness are often labeled racist, because the labler cannot distinguish between culture and race. I like to think of it as the 'old car up on blocks in my next door neighbor's front yard' conundrum, a catchy title if ever there was one. People whose class, and therefore cultural tendencies, don't embrace the beauty of a '54 Merc rusting in full view of the neighborhood, would simply prefer that the owner of said car disappear.

I don't think it's a stretch to imagine a class of people in Thailand, whose culture has little or no intersection with that of farangs in general. Such a class of people may or may not recognize the cultural issue, but sho 'nuff recognize the race of their cultural antagonists.

So, on an individual level, Simon's Thai-a-nization may well be a successful strategy. I notice with pleasure the change of expression on the KFC counter girl's face, from anxiety, to pleasure, when I order my food, and give instructions in decent Thai. No loss of face because of her English defeciency, and her fears relaxed, I am her best friend...

I have my doubts, however, as to whether, as a class of people, we can, or even should try to be what we are not, e.g., Thai. Unless we have a farang 'good will ambassador', like, say, a Jim Thompson, to carry our torch, we will remain the scruffily dressed, Khao San Road stereotype that the Big Boys look upon with such disgust.

The Thais can maintaiin cultural purity, even genetic purity, if they so desire, but in today's global climate, it will lead to isolation, and ultimately disadvantage at the hands of the other, more progressive SEA nations.

Sateev

[simon43]

Just out of interest, have TV members spotted any comments/reports/letters about this new policy in other media (websites such as BBC, CNN and newspapers such as Bangkok Post and The Nation)?

Or is this important topic profoundly boring to everyone except for those who will be affected?

Simon

[CM-Joe]

Well, this time this will have quit a heavy impact to our future. After two happy years in Chiang Mai on a retirement visa we will have to look for a new home. As my wife is only 47 it seems so, that we have to leave Thailand soon... I am just glad, that I did not buy a house as planned...

If they really want us to go, then we will have to go: Bali is nice, Brazil is nice and also Europe has very nice countries. But anyway it is always a lot of trouble to move and sell or give away all the stuff you cant take with you. We just started to make some good progress in speaking Thai and now they want us to leave. Shame on them!

[Johpa]

Conspiracy theories are fun but futile. There is no organized conspiracy because 'they' don't do such things here to farang. The powers that be mumble, fumble, make arbitrary, senseless changes, pass laws they don't enforce, and enforce laws they never passed. Which is all the more reason to get the He11 out of Dodge.

For the short term perspective, and Thailand is the hub of short-time activities, one need not look for conspiracy. One only need look as to who profits. The new/proposed change in the visa regulations profits the banks as it increases the funds needed to be maintained in an account by certain classes of visa holders. And as we all know, there is little, if any, interest paid into a typical foreigners Thai bank account. In effect, the banks get free money. With the Chiang Mai outsider now outside of government ( and outside the country), the old crew banking elite, headed by the Sophonpanichs, are probably just stretching their muscle and getting some pay back for supporting the retro coup.

For the long term perspective, I believe there are other agendas on the table. Please see my original post in this thread for my thoughts on that subject.

[IAMSOBAD]

What have you done to help the people injured by this new rule?

Who have you called? emailed? BE REAL

With a huge outcry and less b1tch1ng on here...WE CAN BE HEARD.

Many countries have warned Thailand to have fair elections and recover back to being a democratic country.

Trust me...if we make enough noise...PEOPLE WHO MATTER WILL HEAR IT.

That is how change for the good of all comes about.

So stop writing here about this and contact businesses...realtors...landlords...radio stations...blogs...you tube...the mass media...embassies...everyone who can make this a public discrace for the person who made this policy.

They will cave!

[Orita]

It is understandable that immigration rules change over time, here in Thailand and elsewhere. Absolutely not acceptable however are rule changes that severely affect existing holders of retirement visas. Retires who have invested here, not only into property, but also into efforts to learn Thai and integrate into the Thai society, are forced out like criminals now, simply because they can not qualify any longer. What crime did my wife do to deserve getting kicked out like a dog? She is not 50 ears old.

Does this government not have any decency? At least they could keep the old rules for existing retirement holders. New applicants would be presented with the new requirements and could decide, if they still feel like retiring in Thailand.

Old retirement holders that suddenly do not qualify any longer are forced to give up everything here, sell their condo, car, furniture etc., say good buy to their friends and move out.

This is absolutely outrages and deserves international attention. Anyone thinking of retiring here or acquiring property must be completely out his mind. We deeply regret that we ever have moved here and not somewhere else.

Potential retires and investors should be actively discouraged by theirs embassies back home

[JaiGuru]

I really don’t understand the paranoia of posting links on this forum so I refrain from doing so, but the information you seek can easily be found on the website of the National Statistical Office, Ministry Of Information and Communication Technology, Thailand. It *really* is easy, I promise.

Without regard to as far as you know, the numbers do indeed refer to the resident aliens in Thailand, not just Greater Bangkok.

And your numbers seem a bit off; the census reports: 217,135 Chinese, 2,650 Japanese, 6,258 Indians, 2,355 Americans, 1,764 UK, 1,292 Germany, no listed Taiwanese, 553 Koreans, no listed, and so on... Google is a wonderful thing.

Additionally, you're off on your assertion of the vast majority of the females being Chinese, Indian and Malaysians, but you'll find that out when you do the research.

Those numbers are from 10 years ago and it would be most interesting to see what do they mean by "residents". All of the various non-IMM visas + the PR holders? If that's the case that would leave out the huge mass of people who have "traditionally" been living in Thailand full time on back-to-back visa runs.

Just to show you what 10 years mean, there is an estimated number of 1.5/2 million migrant workers in Thailand (around 80% from Burma, the rest mainly from Laos and Cambodia) from its poor neighbouring countries and of those, less than half a million is legal (ie they hold work permits), 10 years ago they were one fourth.

Yes, yes, yes… We all know the numbers are from 10 years ago because, as another poster pointed out, the Thailand census is only performed every 10 years; we’ll all have to wait until 2010 for the next one. But do you really think that since the last census only people from rich Western countries moved to Thailand?

Until then, one can only guess, and mine is that a rising tide lifts all boats; there’ll be more Americans, Brits, and Euros, and there’ll also be more people from less fortunate countries like Burma, Cambodia, and China. And don’t forget there’ll be more Thais as well! Some numbers will change, but I should think the distribution will stay very much the same; for example, even if the number of Brits doubled in relation to everyone else it would mean a footprint of only 4% or so of the total number of resident aliens.

According to the data from Thailand’s National Statistics Office, the average monthly income for the entire kingdom per household (3.6 people) was 12,167 THB. While it’s true that if you divide my reported 24k THB or so by the average household size of 3.6 people, you may get something around 7K, I find it difficult to believe that all 3.6 members of the average Greater Bangkok household would be wage earners. Thus, I should think the average wage per wage earner is higher.

Yes, undoubtedly higher than the national average in Greater Bangkok, so what? The point is that the average Thai is earning 7700 Baht a month (Q1 2007 BOT fugures, not 10 years ago) so however much you are trying to downplay the contribution of Western and other rich Asian residents (whichever their visa status) each of them is every month injecting into the Thai economy several times the average Thai's monthly wage in valuable FOREX.

Personally, I think the BOT number is suspect and would be more comfortable with something closer to 8,700 THB, but let’s go with your number. So what you’re saying is that 63 million Thais are spending about 5,821,200,000,000, compared to the tourists’ 509,471,621,720, and the resident aliens’ between 50,000,000,000 and 159,040,176,515. Even using the larger number for the resident aliens (which I believe is a bit over the top for reasons pointed out in a previous post), it’s only 2.7% of the Thai spending; hardly a point that should be heralded from every mountain top far and wide.

Sex tourists don’t stay at hotels, eat at restaurants, or visit any attractions? Wow!! That’s hard to believe!!

No, they do but sex tourists spend MOST of their money on the girls (even after they leave Thailand...) and in the bars and that's why MOST of what they spend (and their total contribution to the Thai economy) doesn't end up in those useless TAT stats...

I would be happy to stipulate that you are the expert on sex tourism. But my observation is a bit different.

I really do understand your argument, but all I can say is of the expats I know in LOS, owning a condo or house+car+motorbike is not typical.

I see you have not offered an estimate here, but you do in another post. May I bring to your and everyone's attention the fact that 10 years ago your low-end estimate would have been equal to roughly the value of the whole agricultural sector (which employed almost 60% of the workforce)?

It’s not really my estimate as I believe the number would be much lower due to the smaller contribution by over 80% of the group.

I have been very lucky to meet quite a few people living in LOS and have them share their stories with me; guys living in penthouses overlooking the Chao Praya, scores of guys living on around $1,000 USD per month, and a handful living on considerably less. And I’ll state it again; of the expats I know in LOS, owning a condo or house+car+motorbike is not typical.

Perhaps it is because of the shifting sands of the situation in Thailand, but my observation is that the typical expat has taken to heart the advice not to have more in Thailand than they would be comfortable walking away from.

And who can blame them?

Edited September 3, 2007 by JaiGuru

[Maestro]

Just out of interest, have TV members spotted any comments/reports/letters about this new policy in other media (websites such as BBC, CNN and newspapers such as Bangkok Post and The Nation)?

At the moment it has not yet been published. The Immigration Bureau has held no press conference about it. Therefore, it would be wrong to expect the media to know it and write about it.

--

Maestro

[PeaceBlondie]

Congratulations to all of ThaiVisa. This is post #600, and this topic has enjoyed 40,000 views in less than four days.

[cclub75]

Congratulations to all of ThaiVisa. This is post #600, and this topic has enjoyed 40,000 views in less than four days.

Hum... We should rather congratulate our friends of the Immigration...

Give back to Cesar... you know.

And i'm sure that they will continue to entertain us, generating therefore a lot posts on TV...

[thaigene2]

One reader says correctly that Farang/Thai married couple are deemed to need only 40,000 baht income a month BETWEEN them.

I know loads of Thai/Thai families managing to survive on 5,000 (or less) - 10,000 baht a month

I am curious as to how my wife (Thai) and I (farang) would be expected to spend 40K baht per month upon retirement? I can certainly see the need the first year or so of retirement needing the funds, but only if I could find a company that would sell me a vehicle on credit with monthly payments. But soon enough the vehicle would be paid for. Then what am I spending money upon? We have a home that we built using cash, so no need for rent money. We prefer living in a rural area so the cost of living is for the most part food, drink, and transportation costs (gas).

Come on .. surely you must see what is happening here?? If you were married to a daughter of the elite class (REALLY unlikely - not just you - me too), the money wouldn't be an issue. Her daddy would have all that money from all the dirty little deals through his sister-in-law's cousing who funneled money back to him after ensuring he'she got that public works contract to supply sub-standard floor tiles, or concrete re-bar, or whatever..

You have no bargaining power nor does your issaan or chaing mai wife or whomever...And they couldn't give a rat's ass about your little rural love pad my friend...no way. Before you know it, it will be 80,000 b per month..and you'll be on your way back to Aus or wherever..