No More Dependent Extension Of Stay If The Host Foreigner Has A Retirement Extension Of Stay Permit

[btlion]

Not going to affect me directly but definately a disaster for many, many retired couples.

Thailand has just stopped being a favourable retirement location. I wonder if the powers that be have thought this through as to exactly how many retired couples will now have to sell up and move, taking their (evidently too small) contribution to the local economy with them?

Another fine example of just how tenuous our position here is, I wonder what will be next?

You wonder what will be next in the fight to make our lives more comfortable and secure in Thailand.

One idea would be to make all Farangs wear a large yellow cotton 'F' stiched to the upper part of their clothing. This would only be so they could be instantly recognised by the authorities. They would then be made to wear the map reproduced in fabric across their backs. I think these things could be tried...

[Orita]

Apparently, there is a crack down going on in Phuket right now, where diving shops are targeted, that have foreign partners, dive instructors and dive masters.

It looks more and more like there really is a concerted major drive on all fronts to drive foreigners out of Thailand.

As it has been asked above: Who will be next?

[Jingthing]

Isn't it possible that all this hub-bub is being promulgated on farang websites just to scare a few naive house owners into selling their houses cheaply and moving to lovely Uruguay or Vietnam? Then the farang speculator picks up a few houses cheap and resells them at a profit when the dust settles.

That is so ridiculously far fetched.

Anyway, Vietnam has no retirement visa program.

Uruguay requires a certified income of 18K USD plus an investment in real estate or bonds of over 100K USD which cannot be sold for 10 years. Argentina has much lower levels financially, only a modest pension is required; however there is no bank account qualifier option. There is an investment option of only 30K USD but it must be an approved and legit, not just buying a condo.

Edited September 4, 2007 by Jingthing

[JimGant]

Have read a lot of replies and i must say that what as been suggested is right why should someone who is under 50 be allowed to piggy back staying in thailand without a retiremnet visa the rules are quite straight ,over 50 800,000 baht in thai bank or 65,000 baht a month pension.This as been the norm for a long time as it was stated previosly not many people who are affected have actually placed a reply most are from people who are not affected and WILL NOT BE.

You're joking, right?

To say one's dependent spouse should have to meet *THE SAME* requirements laid on the sponsor is ludicrous. Should the spouse and children of someone here on a "missionary" or "expertise" visa also have to meet the missionary or expert criteria to get a one-year extension? Thailand isn't 'family unfriendly,' so it's hard to believe this new ruling, when finalized, will be anything like we're discussing here. Yes, there may be a new financial requirement for dependents of retirees (similar to what "dependent" parents of ED visa holders are currently subject to). But to dictate that your spouse must be over 50 just doesn't wash.

And the rush to implement such a new policy is perplexing. Has Immigration, in their war against 'keynok farangs,' detected that the 'two for one' policy has cheapened the farang community, apparently with urchin, child-brides?

No, this policy is so wrong-headed there's no way it will stand as presented here (he said hesitantly.......).

[Jingthing]

As my wife will no longer qualify due to the fact that she is not 50 yet, we are looking for alternative

retirement locations.

Today, we went to the Malaysian embassy, where we received a glossy brochure titled:

"Malaysia, my second home". This program allows retirement and residency in Malaysia.

-A visa will be granted initially for 10 years, and is renewal for further 10 years periods.

-You need either a fixed deposit of 150,000 Ringit, or, a monthly income of 10,000 Ringit

this includes your spouse and children.

-You may withdraw 90,000 Ringit after one year. You need a minimum balance of 60,000 Ringit.

-You are allowed to buy 2 (yes two) units of residential housing in your name.

-You can bring in your personal car without paying import taxes.

With such compelling offers elsewhere, we sincerely regret to have opted for Thailand as a retirement destination, where rules are changed at a whim without any regard to the consequences, and without a minimum on decency.

Of course, Thai authorities can do anything that pleases them, but in an international world, this is not

how things are done any longer. On the long run it will always get back at them, I am certain.

Yes, the Malaysia program is good.

The Philippine program is even better and offers a lifetime program, not just 5 or 10 years at a time.

In any case, the major point is that these and other countries and actively competing for the world's expat retirees, in some cases like the Philippines radically LOWERING the financial requirements. This, while, Thailand has both current expat retirees and prospectives ones feeling insecure and spooked. Yes, we do love Thailand and we chose Thailand. But there is a breaking point, its just different for each of us.

Edited September 4, 2007 by Jingthing

[JaiGuru]

I’ve had a bit of an epiphany today, and I believe I understand the “resident alien” conundrum. I want to check something out, and I’ll share it with you in a bit.

You shouldn't comment sarcastically on any "easy math" having just multiplied the average monthly wage for the whole of the population including newborns and 99 yos on their deathbeds

There is a reason why this must be done. The clue is in the NOST spreadsheet. It’s easy to make jokes when one doesn’t understand things, but do try as it may unlock something else for you.

We were both wrong.

I did indeed make a mistake, but it’s not what you think…

My mistake was getting involved with the 7k number; it’s superfluous. Multiply the numbers for the kingdom as outlined above, and divide by the wage earners. Interesting, no? And you didn’t even have to fudge anything! Even so, the number really doesn’t have anything to do with this discussion.

I believe I read somewhere that tourism accounted for about 6% of Thailand’s GDP. I believe we’ll find that farangs living in LOS contribute a fraction of that. It may be a big number when one looks at it on its own, but it’s just one slice of a much bigger pie.

Even considering those figures the contribution is quite high but the real crux of the matter is that we don't know who they classed as residents (OR DO YOU?)

Actually, I think I do.

The “resident alien” numbers should not be doubled. In fact, I’m sorry to say we may find their contributions are significantly lower that what we originally estimated.

While I don’t fully understand this recent retirement visa change, this sub-thread clearly shows why Thailand needs to sort out their visa situation.

But what is truly shocking to me, is that 81.68% of the resident aliens are from China. How the heck did that happen! Something’s going on here… Prolly a good topic for its own thread…

Now, where can we find the total number of work permits issued to Westerners and other rich Asians last year? The total number of 1 year extension of stay permits issued? The total number of non-IMMs?

They have those numbers, why don't they publish them?

Maybe it’s face issue. That could also be why TAT pulled their reports. Someone sitting behind a big desk just realized they have a problem.

My guess is that it’s going to get worse before it gets better…

[Pattaya46]

Yes, the Malaysia program is good.

Good ?

I do not consider it now as a good option because of news like that :

"Malaysia considers switch to Islamic law"

"Sharia law already operates in some Malaysian states and is occasionally applied to non-Muslims"

...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...1/wmalay101.xml

Pattaya46

[Jingthing]

Yes, the Malaysia program is good.

Good ?

I do not consider it now as a good option because of news like that :

"Malaysia considers switch to Islamic law"

"Sharia law already operates in some Malaysian states and is occasionally applied to non-Muslims"

...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...1/wmalay101.xml

Pattaya46

The visa program is good. Wasn't commenting on the country. Most people on this board including me consider Thailand their top choice. But if we can't stay, we must look elsewhere.

[tim77]

It does not take long for a serious thread regarding serious matters to be hijacked by the ."If you dont like it P*#* Off somewhere else" mob. The " Ive got squillions so I dont care" gang also jump on the bandwaggon along with the would-be maths masters and various others who delight in blowing their own trumpet.

Fact is ,there are fellow ex-pats out there that this regulation does seriously affect and they have my heart-felt sympathy.

Picture the retiree who moves to Thailand with his under 50 non-Thai spouse and his little nest egg + monthly pension,buys a house or condo , car etc and settles down to a blissful retirement ,out of the blue he has to come up with another 800k or another 65k per month to retain their status quo, what a bummer!!!

Perhaps the next target on the Immigration shooting gallery will have "holier than Thou" pinned to its chest, as for me, I have my Cambodia business visa in my passport because I have a gut feeling my time in Los is nearing an end, ah well, never to late in life for a new adventure.

. . . and the house that they bought - relying on the company scheme that was sanctioned or permitted for years by the Land Department, the Company registration officials, the Thai tax department, Thai lawyers, etc - may no longer be theirs. . . . Even the economic value of their good faith investment may turn - if they are lucky - into an unmarketable investment.

I am still shocked at the callous and the cruel actions being generated by the Thai government.

Edited September 4, 2007 by tim77

[capaotung]

You shouldn't comment sarcastically on any "easy math" having just multiplied the average monthly wage for the whole of the population including newborns and 99 yos on their deathbeds

There is a reason why this must be done. The clue is in the NOST spreadsheet. It's easy to make jokes when one doesn't understand things, but do try as it may unlock something else for you.

So, there is a reason for multiplying the average monthly wage for the whole of the population including newborns and 99 yos on their deathbeds yet you don't seem to be able to tell us what it is..!

We were both wrong.

I did indeed make a mistake, but it's not what you think…

My mistake was getting involved with the 7k number; it's superfluous. Multiply the numbers for the kingdom as outlined above, and divide by the wage earners. Interesting, no? And you didn't even have to fudge anything! Even so, the number really doesn't have anything to do with this discussion.

WHICH number by HOW MANY wage earners?!?

I have done the math for both sets of numbers: the ones taken from your own sacred source and the current numbers from the Bank of Thailand and they are absolutely consistent (accounting for the then economy and today's, of course).

Here they are, again:

year 2000: 6,083 average monthly wage x the 32,000,000 Thais in the workforce x 12 months = 2,335,872,000,000 THB

year 2007: 7,700 average monthly wage x the 36,000,000 Thais in the workforce x 12 months = 3,326,400,000,000 THB

point out exactly where are the mistakes you are talking about!

I believe I read somewhere that tourism accounted for about 6% of Thailand's GDP. I believe we'll find that farangs living in LOS contribute a fraction of that. It may be a big number when one looks at it on its own, but it's just one slice of a much bigger pie.

In fact, Western tourists and Western "residents" (to avoid confusion better say "long stayers") BOTH make significant contribution to the Thai economy.

If we add other rich Asian tourists and "long stayers", I think Thailand simply can't do without these two combined sources of income.

Well, no... it can obviously... if downsizing to the Philippines', Cambodia's and Laos' league is their goal.

Even considering those figures the contribution is quite high but the real crux of the matter is that we don't know who they classed as residents (OR DO YOU?)

Actually, I think I do.

Then do tell:

Permanent Residence holders?

1 year extension of stay permits? For which categories of non-IMMs? All categories?

90 days non-IMMs? Which ones? All categories?

Visa runners?

Now, where can we find the total number of work permits issued to Westerners and other rich Asians last year? The total number of 1 year extension of stay permits issued? The total number of non-IMMs?

They have those numbers, why don't they publish them?

Maybe it's face issue.

Because they are too few or too many??

Your reasoning here seems to be suggesting you think it's the former...

Edited September 4, 2007 by capaotung

[jts-khorat]

Yes, the Malaysia program is good.

The Philippine program is even better and offers a lifetime program, not just 5 or 10 years at a time.

In any case, the major point is that these and other countries and actively competing for the world's expat retirees, in some cases like the Philippines radically LOWERING the financial requirements. This, while, Thailand has both current expat retirees and prospectives ones feeling insecure and spooked. Yes, we do love Thailand and we chose Thailand. But there is a breaking point, its just different for each of us.

Jingthing, what you say is true with one caveat (as we find out In Thailand right now):

What can be lowered can also be heightened. Just because the program in the Philippines is 'for life' does not mean it actually is so. No guarantees there as well but one applauds the Filipino bureaucracy for at least at the moment singing the right tune.

[gdhm]

As my wife will no longer qualify due to the fact that she is not 50 yet, we are looking for alternative

retirement locations.

Today, we went to the Malaysian embassy, where we received a glossy brochure titled:

"Malaysia, my second home". This program allows retirement and residency in Malaysia.

-A visa will be granted initially for 10 years, and is renewal for further 10 years periods.

-You need either a fixed deposit of 150,000 Ringit, or, a monthly income of 10,000 Ringit

this includes your spouse and children.

-You may withdraw 90,000 Ringit after one year. You need a minimum balance of 60,000 Ringit.

-You are allowed to buy 2 (yes two) units of residential housing in your name.

-You can bring in your personal car without paying import taxes.

With such compelling offers elsewhere, we sincerely regret to have opted for Thailand as a retirement destination, where rules are changed at a whim without any regard to the consequences, and without a minimum on decency.

Of course, Thai authorities can do anything that pleases them, but in an international world, this is not

how things are done any longer. On the long run it will always get back at them, I am certain.

From my calculations this is much more expensive than the pre 1 Sep 2007 Thailand requirements.

Isn't 10,000 ringit pm income around 96,000 baht a month. 150,000 deposit in bank ringit a little under 1.5m baht (or am I getting my maths wrong).

Many here are struggling with the 65,000 baht pm income requirement (or 800,000 baht deposit) and would not be able to meet the Malaysian much higher financial requirement if forced out of Thailand.

Plus, I believe that medical certificates and insurance are needed. Many may think this minor, but I will bet there are many Retiree's living in Thailand are now no longer medically fit and able to pass a medical test automatically. Additionally can they get medical insurance AND afford it.

Take me, I am fit at 55 but massively and disgracefully overweight 139 kilos (no way would I get insurance). My wife 42 (luckily for me, Thai) suffers from low blood pressure and dizzy spells. Once again a medical certificate may well be problematical for her (thought I know restricted insurance is available).

Ok my weight is extreme, but the point I am trying to make is that its not ONLY a matter of funding to switch countries and I am sure many Retiree's do have medical conditions as they have grown older. In the case of the unfortunate group affected and being discussed in this thread it will require at least 2 persons to be able to pass medical tests and obtain medical insurance to keep the family together under the "Malaysia, my second home" scheme.

Hopefully, easy for most, but I suspect not all.

Regards, Dave

[papaya999]

Well, I don't know what to say... this new law seems to be directed at me and my wife. I am American, 59 yo and have the retirement visa, my wife is Japanese,46 yo and has her visa piggybacked on my visa. We have followed all the rules to the letter. I could use some advise from all of you smart people out there who might have any ideas on what I might do? Money is not much of a problem so, I am open to suggestions.

[lopburi3]

About five posts have been removed. Please do not post flames or trolls. This is a serious issue.

[Jingthing]

Well, I don't know what to say... this new law seems to be directed at me and my wife. I am American, 59 yo and have the retirement visa, my wife is Japanese,46 yo and has her visa piggybacked on my visa. We have followed all the rules to the letter. I could use some advise from all of you smart people out there who might have any ideas on what I might do? Money is not much of a problem so, I am open to suggestions.

Well, she has the age issue. I wonder if you she could get annual non O visas in Penang based on being with her husband. Seems like it is worth a try. These would require visa runs every 3 months but no financial requirements. If you could do that for four years, then she could qualify for her own retirement visa perhaps using the bank account method.

Failing that, she could play the visa run game for four years. Go to Penang, get 2 month tourist visa, extend one month, do a 30 day entry run, then get get another 60 day plus 30 tourist visa in Penang. Repeat, mix and match, just stay under 90 days on 30 day entry stamps in a 6 month period starting with the first 30 day stamp. The variations are endless and it sharpens your math skills counting the days. Does she like Penang? No? How about Kuala Lumpur? Maybe this whole new change was engineered by Tourism Malaysia?

Edited September 4, 2007 by Jingthing

[Lite Beer]

Well, I don't know what to say... this new law seems to be directed at me and my wife. I am American, 59 yo and have the retirement visa, my wife is Japanese,46 yo and has her visa piggybacked on my visa. We have followed all the rules to the letter. I could use some advise from all of you smart people out there who might have any ideas on what I might do? Money is not much of a problem so, I am open to suggestions.

She could get a multi entry non imm 0 visa from her own country with no problem. Or probably in Singapore or Penang by showing some money in a bank account.

This would mean doing a border run every 90 days. This method would get her up to 15 months in Thailand for the lifetime of the visa.

[samran]

Well, I don't know what to say... this new law seems to be directed at me and my wife. I am American, 59 yo and have the retirement visa, my wife is Japanese,46 yo and has her visa piggybacked on my visa. We have followed all the rules to the letter. I could use some advise from all of you smart people out there who might have any ideas on what I might do? Money is not much of a problem so, I am open to suggestions.

probably best speak to sunbelt to figure out what interim measures could be used for your wife until she turns 50 and can get a retirement visa in her own right. Perhaps an education visa could be one possiblity.

[jackr]

Not going to affect me directly but definately a disaster for many, many retired couples.

Thailand has just stopped being a favourable retirement location. I wonder if the powers that be have thought this through as to exactly how many retired couples will now have to sell up and move, taking their (evidently too small) contribution to the local economy with them?

Another fine example of just how tenuous our position here is, I wonder what will be next?

You wonder what will be next in the fight to make our lives more comfortable and secure in Thailand.

One idea would be to make all Farangs wear a large yellow cotton 'F' stiched to the upper part of their clothing. This would only be so they could be instantly recognised by the authorities. They would then be made to wear the map reproduced in fabric across their backs. I think these things could be tried...

I think Sonthi Mugabe would prefer a tattoo on the aforementioned farang forehead.

[sonnyJ]

Well, I don't know what to say... this new law seems to be directed at me and my wife. I am American, 59 yo and have the retirement visa, my wife is Japanese,46 yo and has her visa piggybacked on my visa. We have followed all the rules to the letter. I could use some advise from all of you smart people out there who might have any ideas on what I might do? Money is not much of a problem so, I am open to suggestions.

probably best speak to sunbelt to figure out what interim measures could be used for your wife until she turns 50 and can get a retirement visa in her own right. Perhaps an education visa could be one possiblity.

NON-ED. Exactly. It's not too hard to play their game. Basically I understand the need for this new twist, if it ever comes to be enforced, when I think about the abuse possibilities that were available. Some people will get hurt , I'm sorry for them. Just get categorized in a different way, that's a reasonable demand by any immigration.

[CM451]

Well, I don't know what to say... this new law seems to be directed at me and my wife. I am American, 59 yo and have the retirement visa, my wife is Japanese,46 yo and has her visa piggybacked on my visa. We have followed all the rules to the letter. I could use some advise from all of you smart people out there who might have any ideas on what I might do? Money is not much of a problem so, I am open to suggestions.

This law change is also aimed at me. I'm not sure I am up for jumping through any more hoops for my Thai hosts. If they can get away with this they can

get away with anything. A couple of years in Malaysia might make me appreciate Thailand more.... as a nice place to visit.

[Sunbelt Asia]

Well, I don't know what to say... this new law seems to be directed at me and my wife. I am American, 59 yo and have the retirement visa, my wife is Japanese,46 yo and has her visa piggybacked on my visa. We have followed all the rules to the letter. I could use some advise from all of you smart people out there who might have any ideas on what I might do? Money is not much of a problem so, I am open to suggestions.

This law change is also aimed at me. I'm not sure I am up for jumping through any more hoops for my Thai hosts. If they can get away with this they can

get away with anything. A couple of years in Malaysia might make me appreciate Thailand more.... as a nice place to visit.

Latest update from Immigration on Tuesday..

The new amendments have not been published yet in the Royal Gazette. Ac soon as they are, we'll translate them and post them.

On Monday in Bangkok, they approved two cases for dependent extension of stays when the husband had retirement. No change in the new policy but a Senior person was able to use # 13 in the Provisional section of the National Police Order which gives him that right to approve on a case by case basis. Reason given for those approved was “ Foreigner was crying they did not know the new announcement and the wife had been granted the extension before” Now this does not mean the foreigner was actually crying but this gives them a good reason why they approved these two cases instead of rejecting them. I'm being told a officer cannot approved the extension or even the “inspector of the documents” It has to be approved by a Senior Immigration Member on a case by case basis until the official new regulations come out .

Once again, I was told it looks more and more.... that parents of Thai children will have positive news. He or she will no longer need to be over 50 years old in order to stay in Thailand on this basis. Lets wait to see the official regulations but this indeed seems to be positive news.

As to this posters wife, she could go to Thai school and get a educational extension of stay or she could do visa runs every 90 days on a multiple entry visa obtained from a Embassy/Consulate. If you choose the visa run, I would suggest that you will need to go with her every 90 days on the mini vacation.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[whopper]

I think the surprise and shock displayed here comes from people who have fallen into the trap of overestimating this country. A reality check. On the evolutionary scale, Thailand has a ways to go I'm afraid.

the best post I have read

[retiredusn]

About five posts have been removed. Please do not post flames or trolls. This is a serious issue.

Thanks Lopburi ,,,,THIS IS A SERIOUS ISSUE As stated please keep the post's to the issues at hand

[hilly]

'Sunbelt Asia' date='2007-09-04 21:54:26' post='1516943'

Latest update from Immigration on Tuesday..

The new amendments have not been published yet in the Royal Gazette. Ac soon as they are, we'll translate them and post them.

On Monday in Bangkok, they approved two cases for dependent extension of stays when the husband had retirement. No change in the new policy but a Senior person was able to use # 13 in the Provisional section of the National Police Order which gives him that right to approve on a case by case basis. Reason given for those approved was “ Foreigner was crying they did not know the new announcement and the wife had been granted the extension before” Now this does not mean the foreigner was actually crying but this gives them a good reason why they approved these two cases instead of rejecting them. I'm being told a officer cannot approved the extension or even the “inspector of the documents” It has to be approved by a Senior Immigration Member on a case by case basis until the official new regulations come out .

Once again, I was told it looks more and more.... that parents of Thai children will have positive news. He or she will no longer need to be over 50 years old in order to stay in Thailand on this basis. Lets wait to see the official regulations but this indeed seems to be positive news.

As to this posters wife, she could go to Thai school and get a educational extension of stay or she could do visa runs every 90 days on a multiple entry visa obtained from a Embassy/Consulate. If you choose the visa run, I would suggest that you will need to go with her every 90 days on the mini vacation.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

So there is some light at the end of the tunnel with a clause that allows case by case inspection and aproval. For exaple they can reject the guy's wife if they suspect a marriage of convenience for some unworthy reason but if they can see the couple has been together for a long time and the marriage is bona fide then they can approve the spose extension.

For the life of me I could not see them booting out one of the family members with a Thai child. Many have adopted Thai children and to do so would be worthy of World condemnation. I dont care what everyone thinks but that is not what the Thai government would want. The on a case by case basis is no real surprise to me and this leaves the gates open to all manner of things.

Once again, I was told it looks more and more.... that parents of Thai children will have positive news. He or she will no longer need to be over 50 years old in order to stay in Thailand on this basis. Lets wait to see the official regulations but this indeed seems to be positive news.

I dont get this at all. If they have Thai children then surely he/she can have a marriage visa, assuming they are married that is. I know a 38 year old lady married to a Thai man with no children and she has a 1 year marriage visa although I do not know the rules she abides by.

[lopburi3]

The children provision is single/divorced parents under age 50 with a Thai child - they lost option to obtain extensions under the October 2006 law change. Hopefully a place will be found for them in the new directive.

[wolfmanjack]

The children provision is single/divorced parents under age 50 with a Thai child - they lost option to obtain extensions under the October 2006 law change. Hopefully a place will be found for them in the new directive.

Is it only going to apply to single parents???

[lopburi3]

We don't know that there will be any change yet - it is only rumor until the new laws are published.

[sansureeya]

We don't know that there will be any change yet - it is only rumor until the new laws are published.

That's what i meant to say................about 44 pages of posts ago someone posted something, stating that is is the truth and nothing but the truth and now it is a rumour until publication is a fact.

Great job!!!!

[lopburi3]

The change in dependent visa is not a rumor but a signed document - what is still a rumor is the question in the post above my answer; about fathers of Thai children.

[gdhm]

'Sunbelt Asia' date='2007-09-04 21:54:26' post='1516943'

Latest update from Immigration on Tuesday..

The new amendments have not been published yet in the Royal Gazette. Ac soon as they are, we'll translate them and post them.

On Monday in Bangkok, they approved two cases for dependent extension of stays when the husband had retirement. No change in the new policy but a Senior person was able to use # 13 in the Provisional section of the National Police Order which gives him that right to approve on a case by case basis. Reason given for those approved was “ Foreigner was crying they did not know the new announcement and the wife had been granted the extension before” Now this does not mean the foreigner was actually crying but this gives them a good reason why they approved these two cases instead of rejecting them. I'm being told a officer cannot approved the extension or even the “inspector of the documents” It has to be approved by a Senior Immigration Member on a case by case basis until the official new regulations come out .

Once again, I was told it looks more and more.... that parents of Thai children will have positive news. He or she will no longer need to be over 50 years old in order to stay in Thailand on this basis. Lets wait to see the official regulations but this indeed seems to be positive news.

As to this posters wife, she could go to Thai school and get a educational extension of stay or she could do visa runs every 90 days on a multiple entry visa obtained from a Embassy/Consulate. If you choose the visa run, I would suggest that you will need to go with her every 90 days on the mini vacation.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

So there is some light at the end of the tunnel with a clause that allows case by case inspection and approval. For example they can reject the guy's wife if they suspect a marriage of convenience for some unworthy reason but if they can see the couple has been together for a long time and the marriage is bona fide then they can approve the spose extension.

For the life of me I could not see them booting out one of the family members with a Thai child. Many have adopted Thai children and to do so would be worthy of World condemnation. I dont care what everyone thinks but that is not what the Thai government would want. The on a case by case basis is no real surprise to me and this leaves the gates open to all manner of things.

Once again, I was told it looks more and more.... that parents of Thai children will have positive news. He or she will no longer need to be over 50 years old in order to stay in Thailand on this basis. Lets wait to see the official regulations but this indeed seems to be positive news.

I dont get this at all. If they have Thai children then surely he/she can have a marriage visa, assuming they are married that is. I know a 38 year old lady married to a Thai man with no children and she has a 1 year marriage visa although I do not know the rules she abides by.

I feel it is necessary to mention a few things about "case by case" decisions.

Who decides the basis of these. What is a real marriage?, what is a reasonable length of marriage to prove its genuineness? and why should it be necessary to have a Thai child to bolster up proof of a genuine marriage?

I know many countries in the World have to make such judgements for Visa, residency and citizenship matters BUT they often have strict criteria FROM THE TOP as to how these evaluations should be made and carried out.

As we have seen clearly from thousands of posts on TV and other Thai Expat Forums it is the "case by case" and "inconsistency" scenarios for Visa consideration because that EACH office and officer often seem to have the authority to decide rule interpretations. Regretfully in the worst scenarios these sometimes vary on a week or day to day basis or office or officer to officer basis.

(example such one person is told he can do postal 90 reporting, the next is told he cannot, then the next although told he cannot but he tries to do postal and when he does he is successful AND he is sent back a new blank form for his next 90 postal reporting ).

All these "case by case" and "individual interpretations" are plaguing the VISA seeking community from knowing what exactly IS wanted. Most of us wish to comply 100% with the requirements but most never know for sure (until they visit their Imm. Office) what they will be.

May I remind all, that one person (I cannot remember if on this forum or another) recently said that HIS Imm. Office not only wanted a new Embassy letter every year for his retirement Visa proof of income - a not uncommon request it seems (but not supposedly necessary) BUT as he got his at the end of one year and applied in January of the next he was told it was unacceptable and he needed a new Embassy letter dated in the SAME year and the fact that it was only 6 or so weeks old did not make it acceptable.

Assuming this story is true (I have no reason based on many other reported vagaries to believe it was not) then do we really wish to travel to an Immigration Office 100% replying on the Offices "case by case" review of our particular situation. Not me - 5 years OK then different officer (or maybe just a bad day) and wham NOT this time buddy your wife (or you must leave leave the country).

Can anybody (would anybody) want to live that way.

What we need is clear rules form the top and then consistent application of the rule form below, and hopefully fair and humane rules with fair and humane treatment in applying those rules (especially for those already here based on current or previous rules who are committed to Thailand and not doing, and have never done, anything detrimental to Thailand, its people or its interests).

Regards, Dave